Definitely the latter…..inequality, climate change, pandemic, rising authoritarianism, etc
Tychicus — your claims last night don’t match the data. For example, Canada and the US are a good comparison — same geography, culture, etc. Canada has a higher rate of immunization reaching nearly 70% while the US stagnates at 50%. In terms of new cases, the US has about 120 000 a day while Canada is at 1500 a day. If Canada were to maintain the same rate as the US it should be at 12 000 a day. The difference is immunization rates, masks mandates, and more social distancing (the latter is true even without a pandemic). Within the US, the top current rates of infection belongs to below average vaccinated states — the Old South. New York and California are the only non southern and highly vaccinated states in the list and the do that by sheer population size. California has 8x the population of Louisiana but slightly more than twice as many new cases (14K to 6K) . If vaccines didn’t work, California should have/would have 48K new cases per day to match the Louisiana rate.
The death rate is even more telling. California has 45 deaths per day while Florida has about 90 per day; in terms of population these numbers should be reversed as California has the twice the population. Louisiana has 40 deaths per day despite having an eighth of California’s population; they should only have 5 per day. I used California bc the numbers were easy but try New England states, the difference is even more stark. Forget politics etc; vaccines work, science works, data is evidence, etc; get the vaccine, wear a mask (it protects others), etc.
Here’s the website I use. Use the links to get info on countries and states (and even US counties), use the 7 day average button on the graphs. Its a great resource — just numbers, no anecdotes or politics. (death rates in the US South are underreported due to politics as families don’t want to admit Covid was the cause)
We are having another covid surge in our area. At least half of those testing positive and being admitted to the hospital have been immunized. I am guessing that is not being reported anywhere.
How it started: It was insurrection and worse for the country than the Civil War or 9/11 How it's going: misdemeanor unlawful parading https://t.co/HI89lZS48n
Justice Dept filing: "A lesser sentence would suggest to the public, in general, and other rioters, specifically, that criminal acts in support of a political cause are a crime which will go without serious punishment"
About a week ago I posted an article about coroners in Missouri changing death certificates to pneumonia instead of covid upon family request. Apparently this has occurred more than once and in more than one state. Personally, I think the coroner should be fired — accurate data is needed for anything let alone a pandemic.
Its much easier to convict on misdemeanours than felonies. I see an attempt to go for quantity of convictions rather than a few select serious charges.
Why would anyone be embarrassed by a bronze medal? The women’s game has become more popular and more widespread — the rest of the world has caught up and more competition is good for the game. In women’s hockey, the IOC complained it was only two serious countries (US/CAN) so there’s been a delibrate attempt to improve other countries. The same thing happened in women’s soccer except it started earlier and we are starting to see a more diversified winner’s circle. Good for the game.
The US men’s basketball team won gold again; not sure if they are on the woke side of America — maybe US teams should add a D or R to their uniform so right wing Americans would know who to cheer or boo. And the US women won the water polo gold.
Currently, I don’t think DeSantis should worry Democrats — his approval rating has sunk 10 points lately and in presidential polls for 2024 Harris beats him 43 to 31 %. A little early with a lot of no opinion but still I think DeSantis is over rated. Biden’s numbers have declined but he still beats all Republican including Trump.
DeSantis like Cuomo (who once was rated 1st among Democrats) will probably tank as the mess in Florida becomes more obvious. Cuomo of course doesn’t even poll any more — he should take his pension and go home (well actually go to court and pay the piper) . Without Trump or DeSantis, the Republican picture is unclear. And other than Trump, they have no one who can beat Harris or other challengers. Right now the Democrat nominee will probably a women — Harris, Klobucher, M. Obama. AOC will replace Warner/Sanders as the leftist challenger but won’t be on the ticket.
This will be an important case to follow. Those of us with natural immunity due to prior infection continue to mostly be left with little direction from the “experts”, as if 30% of the population doesn’t already fall into this category. What about us?
I have natural immunity, so there’s no justification for a coercive violation of my bodily autonomy.”
In a few weeks I will begin my 24th year as a law professor at George Mason University. Last year I volunteered to teach in person, even though I’m in my 50s. Teaching law is my job and I owe my students my best. I also knew I could do it safely. During the spring of 2020 I contracted and recovered from Covid-19, which I later confirmed through a positive antibody test. Multiple positive antibody tests have since confirmed that I continue to have a robust level of immune protection.
But now my employer, a state institution, is requiring Covid vaccines. In my case, vaccination is unnecessary and potentially risky. My only other options are to teach remotely or to seek a medical exemption that would require me to wear a mask, remain socially distanced from faculty or students during, say, office hours, and submit to weekly testing.
It would be impossible for me to perform my duties to the best of my ability under such conditions. The administration has threatened those who don’t submit with disciplinary action, including termination of employment. This week the public-interest lawyers at the New Civil Liberties Alliance filed suit on my behalf, challenging the university’s mandatory vaccination requirement for those with naturally acquired immunity. This coercive mandate violates my constitutional right to bodily integrity for no compelling reason.
Clinical studies from Israel, the Cleveland Clinic, England and elsewhere have demonstrated beyond a doubt that natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 provides robust and durable protection against reinfection comparable to or better than that provided by the most effective vaccines. Examining the evidence this May, the World Health Organization concluded: “Current evidence points to most individuals developing strong protective immune responses following natural infection with SARS-CoV-2.”
Protection from natural immunity may even exceed that of the less effective Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which according to the CDC demonstrated only 66.3% effectiveness at preventing infection in clinical trials.”
Yes, some of the covid variants cropping up now — thanks to our lag in US vaccination rates — are posing challenges to the vaccines (though sickness is still much lighter among the vaccinated).
Tthere are windows of time during these pandemics in which they can be cut short — or not — with medical technology. But only if we use it.
It appears that window is closing for us. There’s another covid surge making its way through our church this week, hitting some dear friends. Other variants on their way appear potentially to be even more of a challenge to our current vaccines.
Pandemics will eventually run out of steam. But that can take a long time. What cost are we willing to pay?
The FAQs: What You Should Know About COVID Variants
AUGUST 7, 2021 | JOE CARTER
_______________________________
~ … How should Christians respond to these variants?
The new variants, especially Delta, are occurring in a considerably different context than the original SARS-CoV-2 outbreak. When the virus first came to America, no one was yet vaccinated or had acquired natural immunity. That influenced how we responded to the threat of this deadly pandemic. But today, 168.4 million people—49.6 percent of the U.S. population—are fully vaccinated.
The fact that about half the adult population has been vaccinated can be misleading, though, since the rate is not uniform across the country. Between the states with the lowest vaccination rates (Alabama and Mississippi with 34.6 and 34.8 percent, respectively) and the highest rates of vaccination (Vermont and Massachusetts with 67.7 and 64.1, respectively) there is a gap of about 33 percent.
The states with lower vaccination rates are among those being hit hardest by the variants. For example, Louisiana has a COVID-19 case rate of 93 per 100,000 people compared to Vermont, with 7 per 100,000 people. In some states, low-vaccination areas (such as rural towns) are near high vaccination areas (such as large cities). This could result in “hyperlocal outbreaks,” says Dr. F. Perry Wilson, a Yale Medicine epidemiologist. “Then, the pandemic could look different than what we’ve seen before, where there are real hotspots around the country.”
This means that the reaction to the variants by individual Christians as well as church leaders will differ based on our regional context. How we carry out the command to love our neighbor may therefore be heavily influenced by how many of our neighbors have been vaccinated. For example, those who are vaccinated and live in high-vaccination areas may need to be more concerned about traveling to low-vaccination areas, since they could be asymptomatic and unknowingly spreading the variant (this appears to be a significant contributor to outbreaks in Florida).
Most Americans—including many Christians—are no longer letting new evidence change their views or their actions as it relates to COVID-19. Positions about whether to be vaccinated or wear masks have become solidified, and even politicized, to the point that few are willing to change their opinions, much less how they live their lives.
However lamentable such intransigence may be, as Christians we must still strive to align our perspective to God’s revealed realities. While we can never be sure whether our actions are as loving as they could be, we should do our best to ensure that the actions we take to protect our neighbors from these deadly viruses are based on how we believe Jesus has called us to love others. ~
___________________________________
And this is all still a moving target. We don’t know everything about everything with regard to this virus. But we know a lot more than we once did. And yes, as the article says, “as Christians we must still strive to align our perspective to God’s revealed realities.”
When a surge is occurring, the revealed reality is to be more cautious, for the protection of both us and our neighbors.
Medical knowledge and protocols will shift as more is learned. We’re adults, and we understand that. It requires at least some flexibility in our understanding.
I don’t like mandatory vaccines either. But honestly, I’m becoming much more sympathetic to companies and businesses that are choosing to go that route with their employees and patrons, especially considering what again is a rising uptick in cases with new variants.
But DJ you also continue to ignore those of us in the 30% of the country who had and recovered from Covid.
I still have natural antibodies, which the experts say are better than the vaccines, so why should I need one? What would you have us folks do? Should 30% of the country with natural immunity lose their jobs for vaccines that are questionable at best?
You don’t answer that, or even mention us. Neither do the “experts”. See the problem?
“After people recover from infection with a virus, the immune system retains a memory of it. Immune cells and proteins that circulate in the body can recognize and kill the pathogen if it’s encountered again, protecting against disease and reducing illness severity.”
———–
“STUDY: Vaccine of no benefit to people who already had Covid-19”
“A recent study finds people who have already had Covid-19 are unlikely to get any benefit from vaccination, because they already have immunity from their infection.
The study was conducted on employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System.
It’s in line with the initial studies by vaccine makers Moderna and Pfizer, which also did not find a benefit to vaccinating people who have already had Covid-19.
The findings directly contradict false guidance distributed by CDC.
Top CDC officials and the vaccine advisory committee falsely stated that studies showed Covid-19 is effective in people who have already had Covid-19. Once the disinformation was exposed by Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky), there was no word that anybody at CDC was held accountable.
Authorities say the disinformation by CDC resulted in many people who didn’t need the vaccine and could not benefit from it getting in line ahead of others who needed the vaccine when there was a short supply.”
“Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.
Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).
Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.
Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.”
I don’t say anything about that because the jury’s still out, somewhat. Natural immunity for those who survived would seemingly equal vaccinations at the least, but it remains an area of study.
How you’d verify you had covid and now, as a result, have some immunity, I’m not sure — in situations that will require vaccination proof perhaps a medical report could be provided through one’s physician, assuming that were a circumstance that would come up.
We’ve been 20 months or so in this pandemic, much remains not clearly understood or at least medically verified, including how long immunity lasts, both natural or vaccinated. There are theories and some test results, but overall not enough yet to say with assurance.
My friend and her husband have the antibodies. They assumed the husband had covid a year ago in Feb. My friend thinks she may have had it this past April but neither had a test…they just self quarantined. When the husband’s father went into the hospital with Covid the hospital would only allow someone with the vaccine to be with him. So my friend and her husband were tested for the antibodies…they took the proof to the hospital and they were then allowed in to be with their loved one as he was dying due to Covid….
I just believe if someone has had covid and now have antibodies they should not be mandated to get a shot…it is not proven that it does anything and for goodness sake they were taking the plasma from covid survivors and transfusing it into patients …. And those patients were recovering due to the transfusion….doesn’t that say something about natural antibodies? I’ve had the shots and they aren’t looking to get my plasma to save anyone…right?
i just am so sad with the division this is all causing…and I know we all want what is best for our fellow man….God be with us….
Aren’t all of these things covered under HIPPA? Vaccination records, blood test results, previous and current diagnoses……all are supposed to be no one but the pt and their Dr’s business. Now we are going to mandate that private health information must be made public? Seems contradictory to the many trainings I have had to take on the subject.
Natural immunity is far superior to vaccinated immunity. You don’t get natural immunity from a mask and an experimental injection. The powers that be can stop with the harassment, and also with the ridiculous idea of a vaccine passport!
It used to be that someone would “get over” a cold or the flu, and now such a person is a ‘survivor’ of something that tests can not even satisfactorily isolate as to what it is claimed to be, nor differentiate it from the typical influenzas.
What’s actually in this ‘vaccine’ that they are so determined that everyone get jabbed, regardless of their susceptibility or immunity to the virus?
“People who have recovered from COVID-19 retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, according to a new study.
Findings of the study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far, have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses.
For the longitudinal study in Cell Reports Medicine, researchers looked at 254 patients with mostly mild to moderate symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection over a period of more than eight months (250 days) and found that their immune response to the virus remained durable and strong.
The findings are reassuring, especially given early reports during the pandemic that protective neutralizing antibodies didn’t last in COVID-19 patients, said Rafi Ahmed, director of the Emory University Vaccine Center and a lead author of the paper.
“The study serves as a framework to define and predict long-lived immunity to SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection. We also saw indications in this phase that natural immunity could continue to persist,” Ahmed said.
The research team will continue to evaluate this cohort over the next few years.
The researchers found that not only did the immune response increase with disease severity but also with each decade of age regardless of disease severity, suggesting that there are additional unknown factors influencing age-related differences in COVID-19 responses.
In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.
“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”
Ahmed said investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.”
“How you’d verify you had covid and now, as a result, have some immunity, I’m not sure — in situations that will require vaccination proof perhaps a medical report could be provided through one’s physician, assuming that were a circumstance that would come up.”
That’s simple really. I have on my phone easy access to my Quest account which shows my numerous antibody test results. They’re all positive for antibodies, no matter which of the 3 test types they use. (I’ve had all 3 at once every 4 months since I caught it.) I will again be tested in about a week when my regular bloodwork gets done. Neither my DR. or myself anticipate any change.
That should carry the same weight as a vaccine card.
“LANSING, Mich.—About 800 protesters gathered Friday afternoon on the grounds outside the Michigan State Capitol to rally against government mandates for vaccinations and masks.
In a call for residents to push back against the government’s increasingly intrusive health policies and protect Americans’ rights during the pandemic, Tammy Clark, executive director of the conservative group “Stand Up Michigan,” encouraged the audience to let their voices be heard through non-violent civil disobedience.
“If we don’t stop this now, we won’t get another chance,” Clark said. “Let’s show the government that the employees of this country will not tolerate this tyranny. We have inalienable rights and we are not going to give them up. We must refuse to comply with the vaccine mandates and forced mask-wearing at all costs. If you lose your job, go out and get another job!””
“”Secretary Mayorkas is a threat to the sovereignty and security of our nation. As a result of his actions and policies, America is more in danger today than when he began serving as Secretary. He is willfully refusing to maintain operational control of the border and is encouraging aliens to enter our country illegally. Under his direction, DHS is systematically releasing COVID-19 positive aliens into our communities, subjecting the American people to unnecessary and avoidable risks. Secretary Mayorkas is failing to faithfully uphold his oath of office and is presiding over a reckless abandonment of border security and immigration enforcement, at the expense of the U.S. Constitution and the security of the United States,” the congressman said in a Friday press release.”
“9/11 families to President Biden: Don’t come to our memorial events
Nearly 1,800 victims’ relatives, first responders and survivors are calling on Biden to refrain from attending any memorials over his refusal to release Sept. 11 documents.”
AJ – I just saw that Michelle addressed the matter of Covid survivors getting the vaccine in a comment at 7:37pm on the daily thread. Apparently, the vaccine is recommended for you due to the Delta variant, as well as the other variants.
Wandering Views 
No news is good news. Or we have our heads in the sand.
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Definitely the latter…..inequality, climate change, pandemic, rising authoritarianism, etc
Tychicus — your claims last night don’t match the data. For example, Canada and the US are a good comparison — same geography, culture, etc. Canada has a higher rate of immunization reaching nearly 70% while the US stagnates at 50%. In terms of new cases, the US has about 120 000 a day while Canada is at 1500 a day. If Canada were to maintain the same rate as the US it should be at 12 000 a day. The difference is immunization rates, masks mandates, and more social distancing (the latter is true even without a pandemic). Within the US, the top current rates of infection belongs to below average vaccinated states — the Old South. New York and California are the only non southern and highly vaccinated states in the list and the do that by sheer population size. California has 8x the population of Louisiana but slightly more than twice as many new cases (14K to 6K) . If vaccines didn’t work, California should have/would have 48K new cases per day to match the Louisiana rate.
The death rate is even more telling. California has 45 deaths per day while Florida has about 90 per day; in terms of population these numbers should be reversed as California has the twice the population. Louisiana has 40 deaths per day despite having an eighth of California’s population; they should only have 5 per day. I used California bc the numbers were easy but try New England states, the difference is even more stark. Forget politics etc; vaccines work, science works, data is evidence, etc; get the vaccine, wear a mask (it protects others), etc.
Here’s the website I use. Use the links to get info on countries and states (and even US counties), use the 7 day average button on the graphs. Its a great resource — just numbers, no anecdotes or politics. (death rates in the US South are underreported due to politics as families don’t want to admit Covid was the cause)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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Yep. 🙂
Still livin’ rent free in the left’s heads. 🙂
———–
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Another white supremacist caught using QAnon hand signs…..
Oh….. wait…..
Hey they made the rules…..
—-
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How are death rates under reported?……
We are having another covid surge in our area. At least half of those testing positive and being admitted to the hospital have been immunized. I am guessing that is not being reported anywhere.
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This is why I can only laugh at those that think Jan6th was an insurrection or coup.
It’s a joke.
———–
We’re not laughing with the Biden DoJ, we’re laughing at them.
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In case anyone thinks my above comment was anti-American bias; may I present Canada’s Texas/Florida and Canada’s DeSantis
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/08/06/Alberta-Joins-Team-Just-Give-Up/?fbclid=IwAR3tfenQ5OEFJiFCI_tPHxc8fc_PIKouRCIVwEBjchWVbvqp1kFvbVb_iK0
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Stop laughing, these idiots are serious.
Yeah people might start to think it’s OK to act like BLM or Antifa or other Dem admin approved rioters, right?
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About a week ago I posted an article about coroners in Missouri changing death certificates to pneumonia instead of covid upon family request. Apparently this has occurred more than once and in more than one state. Personally, I think the coroner should be fired — accurate data is needed for anything let alone a pandemic.
Its much easier to convict on misdemeanours than felonies. I see an attempt to go for quantity of convictions rather than a few select serious charges.
Why would anyone be embarrassed by a bronze medal? The women’s game has become more popular and more widespread — the rest of the world has caught up and more competition is good for the game. In women’s hockey, the IOC complained it was only two serious countries (US/CAN) so there’s been a delibrate attempt to improve other countries. The same thing happened in women’s soccer except it started earlier and we are starting to see a more diversified winner’s circle. Good for the game.
The US men’s basketball team won gold again; not sure if they are on the woke side of America — maybe US teams should add a D or R to their uniform so right wing Americans would know who to cheer or boo. And the US women won the water polo gold.
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Currently, I don’t think DeSantis should worry Democrats — his approval rating has sunk 10 points lately and in presidential polls for 2024 Harris beats him 43 to 31 %. A little early with a lot of no opinion but still I think DeSantis is over rated. Biden’s numbers have declined but he still beats all Republican including Trump.
DeSantis like Cuomo (who once was rated 1st among Democrats) will probably tank as the mess in Florida becomes more obvious. Cuomo of course doesn’t even poll any more — he should take his pension and go home (well actually go to court and pay the piper) . Without Trump or DeSantis, the Republican picture is unclear. And other than Trump, they have no one who can beat Harris or other challengers. Right now the Democrat nominee will probably a women — Harris, Klobucher, M. Obama. AOC will replace Warner/Sanders as the leftist challenger but won’t be on the ticket.
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This will be an important case to follow. Those of us with natural immunity due to prior infection continue to mostly be left with little direction from the “experts”, as if 30% of the population doesn’t already fall into this category. What about us?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccine-mandate-natural-immunity-lawsuit-covid-19-coronavirus-11628281507
“Why I’m Suing Over My Employer’s Vaccine Mandate
I have natural immunity, so there’s no justification for a coercive violation of my bodily autonomy.”
In a few weeks I will begin my 24th year as a law professor at George Mason University. Last year I volunteered to teach in person, even though I’m in my 50s. Teaching law is my job and I owe my students my best. I also knew I could do it safely. During the spring of 2020 I contracted and recovered from Covid-19, which I later confirmed through a positive antibody test. Multiple positive antibody tests have since confirmed that I continue to have a robust level of immune protection.
But now my employer, a state institution, is requiring Covid vaccines. In my case, vaccination is unnecessary and potentially risky. My only other options are to teach remotely or to seek a medical exemption that would require me to wear a mask, remain socially distanced from faculty or students during, say, office hours, and submit to weekly testing.
It would be impossible for me to perform my duties to the best of my ability under such conditions. The administration has threatened those who don’t submit with disciplinary action, including termination of employment. This week the public-interest lawyers at the New Civil Liberties Alliance filed suit on my behalf, challenging the university’s mandatory vaccination requirement for those with naturally acquired immunity. This coercive mandate violates my constitutional right to bodily integrity for no compelling reason.
Clinical studies from Israel, the Cleveland Clinic, England and elsewhere have demonstrated beyond a doubt that natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 provides robust and durable protection against reinfection comparable to or better than that provided by the most effective vaccines. Examining the evidence this May, the World Health Organization concluded: “Current evidence points to most individuals developing strong protective immune responses following natural infection with SARS-CoV-2.”
Protection from natural immunity may even exceed that of the less effective Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which according to the CDC demonstrated only 66.3% effectiveness at preventing infection in clinical trials.”
———-
So I need one why exactly?
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Yes, some of the covid variants cropping up now — thanks to our lag in US vaccination rates — are posing challenges to the vaccines (though sickness is still much lighter among the vaccinated).
Tthere are windows of time during these pandemics in which they can be cut short — or not — with medical technology. But only if we use it.
It appears that window is closing for us. There’s another covid surge making its way through our church this week, hitting some dear friends. Other variants on their way appear potentially to be even more of a challenge to our current vaccines.
Pandemics will eventually run out of steam. But that can take a long time. What cost are we willing to pay?
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From Joe Carter at The Gospel Coalition (a good overall piece on variants — the ones now circulating in the US and those worldwide)
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/covid-variants/
The FAQs: What You Should Know About COVID Variants
AUGUST 7, 2021 | JOE CARTER
_______________________________
~ … How should Christians respond to these variants?
The new variants, especially Delta, are occurring in a considerably different context than the original SARS-CoV-2 outbreak. When the virus first came to America, no one was yet vaccinated or had acquired natural immunity. That influenced how we responded to the threat of this deadly pandemic. But today, 168.4 million people—49.6 percent of the U.S. population—are fully vaccinated.
The fact that about half the adult population has been vaccinated can be misleading, though, since the rate is not uniform across the country. Between the states with the lowest vaccination rates (Alabama and Mississippi with 34.6 and 34.8 percent, respectively) and the highest rates of vaccination (Vermont and Massachusetts with 67.7 and 64.1, respectively) there is a gap of about 33 percent.
The states with lower vaccination rates are among those being hit hardest by the variants. For example, Louisiana has a COVID-19 case rate of 93 per 100,000 people compared to Vermont, with 7 per 100,000 people. In some states, low-vaccination areas (such as rural towns) are near high vaccination areas (such as large cities). This could result in “hyperlocal outbreaks,” says Dr. F. Perry Wilson, a Yale Medicine epidemiologist. “Then, the pandemic could look different than what we’ve seen before, where there are real hotspots around the country.”
This means that the reaction to the variants by individual Christians as well as church leaders will differ based on our regional context. How we carry out the command to love our neighbor may therefore be heavily influenced by how many of our neighbors have been vaccinated. For example, those who are vaccinated and live in high-vaccination areas may need to be more concerned about traveling to low-vaccination areas, since they could be asymptomatic and unknowingly spreading the variant (this appears to be a significant contributor to outbreaks in Florida).
Most Americans—including many Christians—are no longer letting new evidence change their views or their actions as it relates to COVID-19. Positions about whether to be vaccinated or wear masks have become solidified, and even politicized, to the point that few are willing to change their opinions, much less how they live their lives.
However lamentable such intransigence may be, as Christians we must still strive to align our perspective to God’s revealed realities. While we can never be sure whether our actions are as loving as they could be, we should do our best to ensure that the actions we take to protect our neighbors from these deadly viruses are based on how we believe Jesus has called us to love others. ~
___________________________________
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And this is all still a moving target. We don’t know everything about everything with regard to this virus. But we know a lot more than we once did. And yes, as the article says, “as Christians we must still strive to align our perspective to God’s revealed realities.”
When a surge is occurring, the revealed reality is to be more cautious, for the protection of both us and our neighbors.
Medical knowledge and protocols will shift as more is learned. We’re adults, and we understand that. It requires at least some flexibility in our understanding.
I don’t like mandatory vaccines either. But honestly, I’m becoming much more sympathetic to companies and businesses that are choosing to go that route with their employees and patrons, especially considering what again is a rising uptick in cases with new variants.
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But DJ you also continue to ignore those of us in the 30% of the country who had and recovered from Covid.
I still have natural antibodies, which the experts say are better than the vaccines, so why should I need one? What would you have us folks do? Should 30% of the country with natural immunity lose their jobs for vaccines that are questionable at best?
You don’t answer that, or even mention us. Neither do the “experts”. See the problem?
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Why should all these people be threatened with job loss if they don’t comply and get a vaccine they don’t need?
“Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.”
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
“After people recover from infection with a virus, the immune system retains a memory of it. Immune cells and proteins that circulate in the body can recognize and kill the pathogen if it’s encountered again, protecting against disease and reducing illness severity.”
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“STUDY: Vaccine of no benefit to people who already had Covid-19”
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/study-vaccine-of-no-benefit-to-people-who-already-had-covid-19/
“A recent study finds people who have already had Covid-19 are unlikely to get any benefit from vaccination, because they already have immunity from their infection.
The study was conducted on employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System.
It’s in line with the initial studies by vaccine makers Moderna and Pfizer, which also did not find a benefit to vaccinating people who have already had Covid-19.
The findings directly contradict false guidance distributed by CDC.
Top CDC officials and the vaccine advisory committee falsely stated that studies showed Covid-19 is effective in people who have already had Covid-19. Once the disinformation was exposed by Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky), there was no word that anybody at CDC was held accountable.
Authorities say the disinformation by CDC resulted in many people who didn’t need the vaccine and could not benefit from it getting in line ahead of others who needed the vaccine when there was a short supply.”
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Here’s the study by the Cleveland Clinic.
“Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2
“Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any subject who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 at least 42 days earlier was considered previously infected. One was considered vaccinated 14 days after receipt of the second dose of a SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection over the next five months, among previously infected subjects who received the vaccine, was compared with those of previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated, previously uninfected subjects who received the vaccine, and previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.
Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).
Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.
Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.”
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Again, why are these people being threatened?
Why do some of you seem OK with this?
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I don’t say anything about that because the jury’s still out, somewhat. Natural immunity for those who survived would seemingly equal vaccinations at the least, but it remains an area of study.
How you’d verify you had covid and now, as a result, have some immunity, I’m not sure — in situations that will require vaccination proof perhaps a medical report could be provided through one’s physician, assuming that were a circumstance that would come up.
We’ve been 20 months or so in this pandemic, much remains not clearly understood or at least medically verified, including how long immunity lasts, both natural or vaccinated. There are theories and some test results, but overall not enough yet to say with assurance.
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My friend and her husband have the antibodies. They assumed the husband had covid a year ago in Feb. My friend thinks she may have had it this past April but neither had a test…they just self quarantined. When the husband’s father went into the hospital with Covid the hospital would only allow someone with the vaccine to be with him. So my friend and her husband were tested for the antibodies…they took the proof to the hospital and they were then allowed in to be with their loved one as he was dying due to Covid….
I just believe if someone has had covid and now have antibodies they should not be mandated to get a shot…it is not proven that it does anything and for goodness sake they were taking the plasma from covid survivors and transfusing it into patients …. And those patients were recovering due to the transfusion….doesn’t that say something about natural antibodies? I’ve had the shots and they aren’t looking to get my plasma to save anyone…right?
i just am so sad with the division this is all causing…and I know we all want what is best for our fellow man….God be with us….
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Aren’t all of these things covered under HIPPA? Vaccination records, blood test results, previous and current diagnoses……all are supposed to be no one but the pt and their Dr’s business. Now we are going to mandate that private health information must be made public? Seems contradictory to the many trainings I have had to take on the subject.
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Natural immunity is far superior to vaccinated immunity. You don’t get natural immunity from a mask and an experimental injection. The powers that be can stop with the harassment, and also with the ridiculous idea of a vaccine passport!
It used to be that someone would “get over” a cold or the flu, and now such a person is a ‘survivor’ of something that tests can not even satisfactorily isolate as to what it is claimed to be, nor differentiate it from the typical influenzas.
What’s actually in this ‘vaccine’ that they are so determined that everyone get jabbed, regardless of their susceptibility or immunity to the virus?
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/covid-19-survivors-have-broad-longer-term-immunity_3928732.html
“People who have recovered from COVID-19 retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, according to a new study.
Findings of the study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far, have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses.
For the longitudinal study in Cell Reports Medicine, researchers looked at 254 patients with mostly mild to moderate symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection over a period of more than eight months (250 days) and found that their immune response to the virus remained durable and strong.
The findings are reassuring, especially given early reports during the pandemic that protective neutralizing antibodies didn’t last in COVID-19 patients, said Rafi Ahmed, director of the Emory University Vaccine Center and a lead author of the paper.
“The study serves as a framework to define and predict long-lived immunity to SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection. We also saw indications in this phase that natural immunity could continue to persist,” Ahmed said.
The research team will continue to evaluate this cohort over the next few years.
The researchers found that not only did the immune response increase with disease severity but also with each decade of age regardless of disease severity, suggesting that there are additional unknown factors influencing age-related differences in COVID-19 responses.
In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.
“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”
Ahmed said investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.”
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Link to the study:
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3Dtrue
Even Mild Covid May Lead to Lifelong Antibody Protection:
https://www.futurity.org/mild-covid-19-antibodies-2573682/
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“How you’d verify you had covid and now, as a result, have some immunity, I’m not sure — in situations that will require vaccination proof perhaps a medical report could be provided through one’s physician, assuming that were a circumstance that would come up.”
That’s simple really. I have on my phone easy access to my Quest account which shows my numerous antibody test results. They’re all positive for antibodies, no matter which of the 3 test types they use. (I’ve had all 3 at once every 4 months since I caught it.) I will again be tested in about a week when my regular bloodwork gets done. Neither my DR. or myself anticipate any change.
That should carry the same weight as a vaccine card.
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There were actually several thousand people there. It’s time for the dam to break…
Freedom to choose! Fight for medical freedom!
A general strike now needs to happen as well…
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/hundreds-protest-vaccination-mandate-tyranny-in-michigan_3938253.html
“LANSING, Mich.—About 800 protesters gathered Friday afternoon on the grounds outside the Michigan State Capitol to rally against government mandates for vaccinations and masks.
In a call for residents to push back against the government’s increasingly intrusive health policies and protect Americans’ rights during the pandemic, Tammy Clark, executive director of the conservative group “Stand Up Michigan,” encouraged the audience to let their voices be heard through non-violent civil disobedience.
“If we don’t stop this now, we won’t get another chance,” Clark said. “Let’s show the government that the employees of this country will not tolerate this tyranny. We have inalienable rights and we are not going to give them up. We must refuse to comply with the vaccine mandates and forced mask-wearing at all costs. If you lose your job, go out and get another job!””
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Coming soon….
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https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2021/08/07/articles-of-impeachment-are-coming-for-biden-cabinet-member-n2593772
“”Secretary Mayorkas is a threat to the sovereignty and security of our nation. As a result of his actions and policies, America is more in danger today than when he began serving as Secretary. He is willfully refusing to maintain operational control of the border and is encouraging aliens to enter our country illegally. Under his direction, DHS is systematically releasing COVID-19 positive aliens into our communities, subjecting the American people to unnecessary and avoidable risks. Secretary Mayorkas is failing to faithfully uphold his oath of office and is presiding over a reckless abandonment of border security and immigration enforcement, at the expense of the U.S. Constitution and the security of the United States,” the congressman said in a Friday press release.”
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Ouch. These folks seem pretty upset with Biden.
Just admit the obvious, the Saudi govt. was involved.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1276138
“9/11 families to President Biden: Don’t come to our memorial events
Nearly 1,800 victims’ relatives, first responders and survivors are calling on Biden to refrain from attending any memorials over his refusal to release Sept. 11 documents.”
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These folks are out and out frauds.
Not to mention whiny.
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8:50, well there you go then.
Testing is the other option.
No one likes mandates. But in the private sector, I am sympathetic to the practice at this stage.
There is news, however, that more unvaccinated folks are now choosing to get the vaccines.
The delta strain is racing through our church right now.
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AJ – I just saw that Michelle addressed the matter of Covid survivors getting the vaccine in a comment at 7:37pm on the daily thread. Apparently, the vaccine is recommended for you due to the Delta variant, as well as the other variants.
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