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Our Daily Thread 8-15-13

Good Morning!

On this day in 1057 Macbeth, the King of Scotland, was killed by the son of King Duncan.

In 1911 the product Crisco was introduced by Procter & Gamble Company.

In 1914 the Panama Canal was officially opened to commercial traffic as an American ship sailed from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean.

In 1935 Will Rogers and Wiley Post were killed in an airplane crash in near Point Barrow, AK.

In 1947 India became independent from Britain and was divided into the countries of India and Pakistan.

In 1961 East German workers began construction of the Berlin Wall.

And in 1997 the U.S. Justice Department decided not to prosecute FBI officials in connection with the deadly 1992 Ruby Ridge siege in Idaho.

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Quotes of the Day

“Always remember: If you’re alone in the kitchen and you drop the lamb, you can always just pick it up. Who’s going to know?” 😯

“It’s so beautifully arranged on the plate — you know someone’s fingers have been all over it.” 😯

Julia Child

In both cases, I hope they were washed first. 🙂

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Today is Jamie Slocum’s birthday.

Next up, some John Cooper, of Skillet, for no apparent reason.

And then one with the rest of the band. If you’re not awake yet, you will be after this. 🙂

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QoD

What ministry have you participated in that you most enjoyed being a part of?

117 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-15-13”

  5. I’ve been thinking about how to answer the QoD. I’ve taught Sunday School (as a 1st Grade teacher when I was in college — really fun), and as a music leader when my older children were quite young (I also enjoyed that). And I was a part of the Big Sister/Little Sister program during my college years, and that was very challenging, but I have some good memories of that, too.

    But I’d really have to say that I view motherhood as a ministry, and so the ministry of motherhood is what I have found the most fulfilling.

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  6. I didn’t contribute to yesterday’s discussion of transgender. But I thought about it a bit. I must say that I don’t understand it at all. I know what homosexual men and women do. What I don’t understand is how they think they can reverse their gender. A man can like other men. He can dress like a woman and take hormones. .Does hormones change his size? His voice timbre? A man and woman can sing in the same key, but they sound different. Does he no longer have whiskers at the end of the day? Will he think that looking for a skirt is recreation?

    OTOH, can a woman become a man and develop muscles? Will she go golfing with the guys and play from the men’s tee? In the Washington Post, they used to post the times for everyone who finished the Marine Corps Marathon. Usually the first woman to finish was number 31 or so down the list. That was fast, but no woman has ever won the marathon. She can take all the hormones there are, but she can’t keep up with the guys.

    It has to be about more than which restroom to use. It doesn’t make sense to me.
    What are they going to do when they get older? Boys & girls change in different ways when they reach puberty. They get to middle age and change again. Again, in different ways. Some women don’t spread out with age. Most do. Some men don’t develop pot belies as they age, Most do. And there’s not a lot they can do to prevent it.

    I could go on. It just doesn’t make sense to me. These people are turning themselves into weird people who won’t be able to function and either men or women.

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  7. I am reading the book “Boardwalk Empire.” It starts with the very origination of Atlantic City – how it came into being – and is facinating. If you have any interest at all in the Jersey Shore, I highly recommend it.

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  8. QoD? I immediately knew my first answer, but I dug a little deeperf because my first answer sounded too simplistic.
    I have taught Disciple Bible Study and loved it. It was during that time, of which I have confessed to you before, that I became Mrs. Episcople Church Lady. I organized the Ladies Titus 2 Tea, and a whole slew of other things. I was really impressed with myself. The “bigger they are the harder they fall”.
    I now serve on the vestry of my church and really enjoy that, but I have purposely limited myself not to take on too much. I have felt in the last few years that I needed to “fill myself back up” so that later I would be in a position to give again.

    I always try to find a reason and a silver lining to whatever happens to me. I lost my job in July, so when I read Mumsee’s email my reply was that “as luck would have it I happen to have some free time. My time is your time”. THAT is the ministry I have most recently enjoyed the most.
    None of us understand the reasons a troubled child made accusations; and I went there at a time of tremendous stress to the Nest, but it was the catalyst that got me there after several years of us talking about it. Just yesterday I called an left a message on the answering machine that “someone in Alabama was thinking about them”. (Mumsee REALLY doesn’t like talking on the phone so my intent was to leave a message)

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  9. Our church has a large building we call Crosswalk. We use it for a ministry to young people after school and other times. A full time minister is in charge. It has been effective in reaching the youth and many have been saved.
    Our pastor was talking about the upcoming season. He said that if a young person attends SS, worship and Wednesday activities, we have him three hours a week. The world has him four hours a day to shape him in it’s mold. That person is largely dependent on his family for guidance.
    It’s a difficult world in which to raise kids today. It was true when we were raising Chuck, but we didn’t have TV on very much, and he ran with good friends. The challenge is more difficult today.
    It’s a dangerous world out there.

    Not only transgender, but other problems have consequences. Most of the trouble people have is that they don’t consider the consequences of their decisions. All decisions have consequences.
    This morning, WHKP played an Elvis Presley song that was #1 on the charts in 1960. “It’s Now or Never”. A song with the tune of “There’s No Tomorrow”, which is the tune of some classical piece I don’t remember.
    Anyhow, it’s about a decision. Consideration of mixed company prohibits me from telling exactly what the song is all about. But it concerns a decision some woman has to make. If she’s smart, she’ll decide to tell him to “get lost”.

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  10. It makes no sense to me either, Chas. They “feel” like they were born into the wrong body, but trying to get a body unlike the one they were given results in something that is neither what God gave them, nor anything like what God gave to persons of the gender they’re trying to become. That seems like one of the most unnatural things anyone could do to him/herself.

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  12. I love teaching high school kids in Sunday School. Our church has been blessed with great teenagers. Another fun part of the job is working with our youth minister and the younger teachers.

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  13. I was in a puppet ministry back in the 70s. We would take Bible stories and write them for puppets, then record everything ahead of time so we wouldn’t have to deal with microphones behind the screen. The woman of the couple in charge made most of the puppets in fashion similar to Muppets. The recording sessions were the best part, as we would laugh at our mistakes and try different voices.

    My favorite was Jonah. Since I worked at a radio station, three or four of us went one Saturday, and used the small studio used for recording commercials. It took several takes to get the scene where Jonah is praying in the belly of the (whale or great fish, take your pick) because one person read Jonah’s prayer while the rest of us tried making bubble sounds, all sharing one of those big, omni-directional mics. It turned out okay, but it was something we all laughed about a lot.

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  14. Donna posted this article by Gene Veith last night, and perhaps, based on our discussions of music in the church service, we should all read it:

    And now, the worship DJ

    This does not bode well for “worship in Spirit and Truth”. I mean, can one worship in the Spirit of God in such a setting? And is worship supposed to be led by one person, whether a DJ or a traditional song leader?

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  15. First Arrow is on his way. He’s excited about his trip, going to a state he’s never gone to before, spending time with a couple of my husband’s brothers.

    A last-minute mix-up at his workplace almost prevented him from going. He’d asked for five days off, and the assistant store manager who was preparing the schedule said he’d work his request into the schedule. He did, but before the schedule was printed and posted, the store manager made a bunch of changes, and 1st Arrow got scheduled for the second and third days of the 5-day stretch.

    Once the schedule is posted, it is considered final, and if you are scheduled for a time that you want to change, then it is your responsibility to find a replacement for any shifts that need changing (barring illness or something beyond your control). Did I mention that this final schedule came out two days ago?

    First Arrow was not too pleased, especially because it’s hard to find someone to work 3rd shifts. They are short-staffed on that shift right now at their store, and it would be hard to find someone from another store in the chain who would be willing to work a 3rd on Friday and Saturday nights. Also, another one of his co-workers who normally does 3rds had requested the same weekend off because of a weekend trip she had planned, and her request was honored.

    Well, 1st Arrow got on the phone and tried calling people to sub for him so he could go on this trip. He’s never been out of the three-state region where we live, and he starts school in about a week and a half, so he wouldn’t have another opportunity like this for a long time.

    Well, the other co-worker of his who had her own weekend trip planned had compassion on him, knowing how much he was looking forward to this trip, and so she canceled her own weekend plans and will work for him so that he can go on his trip. I just about cried when I heard that. He didn’t, of course, but boy was he ever grateful to her for doing that. 🙂

    There truly are still people who perform great acts of kindness, and it’s always such a blessing to witness.

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  16. For the last 10 years I’ve worked with the children’s ministry, mostly as a wrangler. Before that the media ministry and before that the singles ministry. But I really miss going on construction mission trips. I really enjoyed those and look forward to my son being old enough to go with me on one. I also enjoyed working at the homeless shelter, but I got involved in that through my work and not my church. Oh and PeterL reminded me that I helped my brother;s church out once with a puppet ministry. That was fun.

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  17. As I’ve worked with the children’s ministry I have followed the Kid as he ages through. I worked with toddlers when he was a toddler, I work with 4th graders now. This is his last year in the Children’s department. The next year he moves up to the youth ministry. I may have to find something new. I have never done well with teenagers. Those people are aliens.

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  18. Does choir count as a ministry? I LOVE singing in our choir.

    I work with a friend who still attends the (LCMS) church that I left several years ago. Or, as she likes to remind me, I always said, “I didn’t leave my church, my church left me.” Anyhow, the DJ article reminds me of something she told me this week. This past Sunday, their service (which is now “contemporary”) was led by a jazz group made up of young people who, not only don’t attend there – none of them attend church anywhere. One of the group is the son of a congregation member and based on the attitude of the church leadership, I suspect their reasoning was to “encourage” the young people.

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  22. Good morning, everyone! Y’all are talkative on here this morning! Eldest daughter has a riding lesson with a new instructor this morning and Becca has her first appointment with the therapist we’ve been seeing to help with her behavioral outbursts.

    Today’s QoD: I’m with 6 arrows and find motherhood my favorite ministry. I also really enjoyed volunteering with Covenant House Houston, which serves run-away and throw-away youth as well as tutoring kids at my daughter’s elementary school.

    Regarding transgender issues: It is strange to me when people feel trapped in the wrong body and take steps to change it. How does one change something so fundamental about oneself? How does one feel comfortable playing God? It’s as if they’re saying they know better than God what is right. I feel very sorry for people who struggle in this way, but don’t believe sex-reassignment surgery is the right way to go. One cannot change his/her basic chromosomes–one is either XX or XY–and no amount of medicine or surgeries can alter that fact. Even if you can’t tell by looking at a person that he/she was born a certain gender, he/she is still truly the gender he/she was born as. I’m glad both of my girls are happy being girls! I think that would be a very hard issue for me to deal with as a parent.

    When I was a kid, a baby goat was born that had both female and male parts. It didn’t live very long, but it was so strange to see!

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  23. Linda, I just don’t understand how just anyone can come in and lead a worship service! Crazy. Not that a worship leader has to be perfect, but his/her life should show fruit of the Spirit and be consistent with walking with God.

    I really enjoyed working with our youth group, especially the senior highs, which my husband and I did for about 15 years. I love teenagers – I miss working with them, but I think I would tire out way too quickly now.

    I also loved working as worship director for our church, as well as being on one of the teams. It was always a challenge to make sure we had a good balance of different types of worship music, so that people could truly worship together. There are always those who think worship is about them, instead of about God. 🙂

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  24. Linda: Is the LCMS the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod? And, if so, why do you feel the church left you? I attend a methodist church but have always been fond of the Missouri Synod and used to attend a lutheran church early in my Christian journey. Just curious. 🙂

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  26. QoD is a long story.
    I have taught adult men for over 25 years, with breaks in between. That was a satisfying ministry.
    But the most satisfying time was when I was at USC (Columbia). Al Tolley, the guy who got me involved in active Christianity via IVCF also had a ministry to servicemen. Soldiers in basic training at Ft. Jackson would get weekend leave and come to town. Al arranged for a ministry at the USO and Victory Servicemen’s Center. At the USO, we would have food and games, and someone would give a short, concise gospel message. Several guys were saved due to that ministry. I still have some decision cards and occasionally I mention those guys in prayer. They are all in their seventies now. I’m not naive to believe that all of them continued in the faith, but I believe some did.
    Same for the Victory Center. We would go out on Main St. in Columbia and invite guys to the VSC for free refreshments. We had volunteer ladies from the churches to help us in this. Elvera and some of the other girls we knew would serve and chat with the soldiers. We had opportunities to witness and won some to Christ.
    Not part of the question, but, as some of you know, this can put you on a spiritual high that I suspect no drugs can equal. Sometimes a feeling of Spiritual power and closeness to the Lord. Anyhow, that gave me the idea that I should go into the ministry. That was a mistake, but it turned out well, and the story is too long for this.

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  27. Annmsw,
    Yes, Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod. The problem is that this church (and others, I believe) are doing their own thing and not following the precepts of the LCMS. For example, they are without a Pastor right now and as they interview potential candidates, one of the things they are looking for is someone who is willing to disobey Synod’s rule on closed communion – they actually ask that question in the interview. On Reformation Day 2007 the Pastor preached that the whole reformation was just one big misunderstanding because people weren’t listening to one another and if they had, they would have realized that they all believed the same thing. He even endorsed the “Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification,” which was between the Catholic church and the ELCA, who subsequently abandoned it, themselves for theological reasons. I walked out after the sermon and have never gone back. I now belong to a wonderful PCA church and am very happy there – even drive an hour to go on Sundays since we’ve moved away.

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  28. I have been reading Paul’s letter to the Colossians. I’m convinced that this letter contains some of the heaviest theology in scripture, including Romans. It would take a preacher a year to finish it. For example, in Chapter 2:

    9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

    KJV says, “You are complete in him.” Two sermons in those two verses. What does it mean to be complete in Christ?

    Again:

    13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

    Do we understand that all the accusations against us were nailed to the cross in God’s eyes?
    What does it mean that the spiritual powers and authorities opposing us are public laughingstocks and will be eternally embarrassed.

    Heavy, heavy stuff.

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  29. Come on over to our LCMS, Linda!

    I’ve taught Bible study on and off, mostly on, for more than 30 years. (How can that be? Aren’t I, like, 35 years old myself?). I’ve worked at four different pregnancy counseling centers for most of the last 26 years. I play the clarinet, sing in the choir and am married to the church president.

    But my ministry often seems to be encouragement, particularly to young people God brings across my path. And the writing, of course, is both a joy and a ministry.

    Furniture moves today; we should be pretty settled in by the weekend. I’m blessed and amazed, yet again, by God’s goodness–and how swiftly He acts when He’s in the middle of it all.

    Breathless, really, and so very, very grateful.

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  31. As to transgendered, oh my. Both young men we know (well, one I knew as a baby), are brilliant and grew up with either absent fathers or weak ones.

    Let me underscore scientifically brilliant–both of them–and raised as Christians.

    And they are pretty mentally and emotionally screwed up. They are 33 and 30.

    But, as I’ve counseled one of the mothers, everyone has a need to be loved and accepted for who they are not what they are.

    The friend said, “I grieved and cried for months. I wanted to die after he told me. But one day, I realized I just needed to love him/her, and that’s what I’m trying to do.”

    She said s/he cannot talk about his childhood because the memories are so painful.

    The other one married and then divorced. Moved to Berkeley with a job, decided to change his sex, took the drugs, fell in love with another woman.

    Both planned to marry women and thus become transgendered lesbians.

    The Berkeley one would up trying to kill himself and spent time in a psych ward where a pastor stopped in to visit. The pastor listened and was very kind and our young friend said more than anything he wanted to get back in touch with God.

    The pastor asked him if he had any ‘safe” Christian friends. Yes. Two. One was my son, the other was the missionary to Sicily, H, whom I’ve asked you to pray for in the past (more about her story another day. I Skyped with her last night, but I’ve no time).

    S/He reached out. My son, who had been a groomsman in the wedding, listened, sought counsel from a pastor, was willing to continue in phone conversations and then hasn’t heard from her/him since.
    H saw him/her a couple times, encouraged and prayed him/her, but has now lost track.

    It is difficult to understand, but fundamentally these are two young men who are so angry and unhappy that they are willing to physically change their sex. They need prayer, counsel, love and hope in Jesus.

    We can give no more.

    And their loved ones need us to love them, too.

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  32. I enjoyed keeping the library at a church. I would also read books and do book reviews for the church newsletter. I have written for a few different newsletters, because of ministry. I have done many different things in a ministry capacity.

    Working with children was also a great joy, whether in VBS or Sunday School.

    Probably the least enjoyed was when I had to be in charge. I like to have input, but am not crazy about being THE leader.

    It is difficult to separate ‘ministry’ from just doing what God has called us to do in our sphere. That changes as our lives change, but is always satisfying. When I was a mother, I considered that extremely important. I was blessed to enjoy it very much. Now I am a grandmother and I consider that one of the most important ‘ministries’ in my life.

    I am so glad God has made us all different.

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  34. So happy for you & your new house michelle! What an exciting time. 🙂

    I’m surprised about the LCMS church Linda goes to — although I suppose just like some individual congregations in liberal Presby churches (as one example) remain stubbornly orthodox in their faith and practice despite their denominational drift, I suppose some congregations in more conservative denominations can also drift in their own way.

    I had a hard time waking up this morning, I was dreaming that I was lying on my desk at work sound asleep, then awoke to wonder if the editor had noticed! Yikes. And we were all working on Thanksgiving day. I figured, what can they expect, making us work on a holiday like this. Still, I thought, I’d better climb off this desk and start making some calls, just to make it look good!

    Ministry — I spent 13 years in Bible Study Fellowship, most of them as a group discussion leader, which I loved. I also enjoyed singing in the choir at a former church and now enjoy being part of the casserole-making team for our local 102-year-old homeless mission (though I’d like to be more involved in the mission ministry per se, they recently opened up a separate mission for women). I should be doing more at my present church.

    In the past I’ve taught SS off and on, here and there, mostly as a sub or summer temp, but felt it wasn’t exactly “my thing.”

    But I also consider my vocation as a journalist something of a ministry.

    Happy Korea Liberation Day — today is the 68th anniversary of Korea’s freedom from Japanese colonial rule (when WWII ended). I’m covering a gathering at a large Korean (friendship) bell today where many of the Korean Americans in and around LA will come to take part.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Bell_of_Friendship

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  35. Tychicus! Where have you been? We’ve been missing you..
    Regarding ministries. I hope AJ knows this is one. Last year this time, we were all afraid of llosing each other.
    We did lose some. 😥

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  36. And I agree with the conclusion about secular songs in worship. I have only encountered that once when “Bridge over troubled waters”, was deemed appropriate. It wasn’t in a worship service, but I didn’t think it belonged in the context anyhow.

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  37. Donna! WAKE UP!

    Ann, thanks for your well-wishes for 1st Arrow’s trip. I’m glad he got to go, too. We haven’t been on a family vacation since 2002, which was about half a lifetime ago for him, and he hasn’t taken any other vacations on his own or with others, either, so this is a very welcome break for him. He’s also traveling with a favorite uncle who is his godfather, so that is neat, too.

    Linda, do you have any WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) churches in your area? They are more conservative (and more consistent from congregation to congregation) than are LCMS. WELS practices closed communion, also, and I would be surprised if there are any churches within that denomination that would deviate from that practice.

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  39. Kare, that is someone else’s issue. But, some Baptist churches used to practice “closed communion”. By that, they mean that only members of that particular Baptist church may take communion. That is the “Landmark Baptist” movement. Most Baptist churches now offer communion to any person who claims to be a baptised Christian. Plymouth Bretherin used to be closed communion. I don’t know the practice now.

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  40. Kare it is a way to keep communion among Baptized Christians. In my church the priest announces that “all Baptized Christians are welcome at the Lord’s table”. When I visit my stepmother’s Lutheran church I have to speak with the pastor beforehand and assure him I have been Baptized in order to take communion. My dad was never able to take communion there because he did not have a Baptismal certificate or even know if he had been Baptized and decided he was too old to go through it again also out of respect for the teachings of “one Baptism for forgiveness of sins…” I am sure being the son of my grandparents he was Baptized.

    It keeps Holy the act of partaking in communion so that just any one who doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ as Saviour cannot make a mockery of it.

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  41. In the LCMS, closed communion means that you must be a member-in-good-standing of an LCMS congregation (any, not just your own) to partake. When you visit another church, it’s best to announce yourself to the Pastor or an usher prior to the service.

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  42. Some interesting answers to the QoD. Thank you.

    As for ministry… We’ve been involved with Children’s church 6-10 yr olds, 4 and 5 yr olds, and nursery and VBS. Also, I’m now doing the on-line prayer request chain as well.

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  44. It looks like closed communion means different things to different people. Wikipedia lists the closed communion practices of different denominations here.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_communion

    I’m a WELS member, and though our denomination has practiced closed communion (only allowing other WELS or ELS members to commune with us, as we are in doctrinal unity with them), there have been some rather vigorous debates on the subject in Bible studies I have attended in our church.

    Questions asked are along the lines of, the Body of Christ is not made up of only WELS or ELS people, why are we denying others, who are clearly believers in Christ, the opportunity to partake of the body and blood of Christ with us?

    Anyway, there’s so much more I want to say on this topic, but I don’t have time. The Wikipedia article is probably a good starting point (I can’t vouch for its complete accuracy, though, as I’m relatively unfamiliar with some of the doctrines and practices of other churches, and to a lesser extent, the history behind some of my own church’s doctrinal practices).

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  45. Thanks for the explanations, it’s what I thought. In the MB church I grew up in, it was closed until around the time I was a teenager, and then it was opened up to all baptized believers. The church we now attend is open to all those who have accepted Christ as their personal Saviour.

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  46. Our church “fences” the table — communion is open to those who know and trust in Christ as savior, who have been baptized and who are members in good standing (in other words, not under discipline or excommunicated) of a Bible-believing church (doesn’t have to be ours or our denomination).

    I’ve also done stints as a church greeter, which can be fun. And I’ve been a minute-taker at business sessions in the past, not very glamorous but a useful skill. 🙂

    For all you dog lovers (this is a tad long at about 9 minutes, but definitely worth watching all the way through if you’re among those of us moved by dogs, esp working dogs and the important role they’ve long played in farming, hunting, and in protecting & guiding their human caretakers and companions) 🙂

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  47. i am too self absorbed to think of ministry. But we have done stuff in the past. And we really appreciate all of those who pray for us here. When I hear somebody is praying for us, I immediately pray for them. May God continue to use His people.

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  48. I think your total life is a ministry, Mumsee!

    At our LCMS, we have a information sheet in the hymnal rack outlining the communion issue. We do allow people who are not LCMS to join us, but with the Scriptural admonition to not doing something you don’t know anything about.

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  49. In other news, midway through our furniture move, I got a message that a Russian hacker had tried to hack into my email account. I got onto a secure computer and changed the password, but, really, this was a good reason to have a smart (albeit second hand) phone!

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  52. Mumsee, I don’t understand this “i am too self absorbed to think of ministry” talk of yours.

    Thank you for your prayers in return.

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  53. Wow, Michelle, glad you caught that quickly!

    Thanks for the explanation, Linda.

    I don’t know that much about the LCMS other than my dad approves of it. He attends an Orthodox Presbytarian Church, which is a small, conservative denomination. I enjoyed attending a PCA church for a couple of years before I married. I loved the sermons and the worship style. Alas, we have no PCA church close to us that is big enough to have much available for our kids. We currently attend a United Methodist Church that is pretty conservative theologically but has a rockin’ worship style that I don’t care for much. It is a large church and they have wonderful youth programs that my eldest participates in as well as a strong Sunday School program for Becca. However, I was disturbed recently by something that was taught to my eldest during a week-long teen development seminar presented by our church. The guy speaking said that it was his opinion before giving his answer, but I was still bothered. Evidently, one of the kids asked a question about what happens after you die. The leader said that you first go to a holding place where your sins are dealt with, similar to the Catholic concept of purgatory (he had a different name for it), and that this place could be fairly unpleasant. Then, after one is “refined”, one gets to go to heaven or hell. Well, I don’t believe that–do you? And, if you do, what scripture supports your belief? These questions are asked with genuine interest and I’d love to hear people’s thoughts on the subject. This man’s beliefs really scared my daughter. Luckily, she shared her fears with me and we were able to discuss that not everyone believes that’s what happens.

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  54. Mumsee: Every day of your life is a ministry that few are called or capable of doing. Loving damaged teens 24 hours a day, seven days a week, is being in full-time ministry. You are probably one of the least self-absorbed people on this planet!

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  55. Well said, Ann @ 15:54:58.

    I don’t believe in a “holding place where your sins are dealt with” after death, either. They were dealt with on the cross. Perhaps these verses that came to my mind might reassure your daughter, Ann.

    “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.” Psalm 103:12. “Removed.” Past tense. A done deal.

    “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Romans 8:1. “Is.” Present tense. Christ’s finished work on the cross makes the “no condemnation” part a believer’s present reality, not something that is to be determined in the future.

    There are probably more (and better) verses that one could use, but those are ones that came to mind for me.

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  56. Ann @ 15:52
    It’s the other way around. There is no scriptural support for the concept of purgatory where Christians go before the resurrection.
    Jesus said, “whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die”. Jn. 11:26
    Jesus told the thief on the cross, “Today you shall be with me in Paradise” Lk. 23:42 (Maybe Paradise is the holding area. Good enough for me.)
    Rev. 5:9 does speak of the souls under the altar waiting for revenge.
    Read Phil. 1:21f where Paul says it would be better to depart and be with Christ. (v.23).
    Jesus stood to receive Stephen when he was stoned.

    We don’t know what form we have before we receive the resurrected body. But I believe scripture tells us that we will be cognizant of all things, and rejoice in the presence of God. Some day, in God’s time, which I believe to be near, there will be a resurrection of the body. It will be a glorified body, but it will still be a body.
    I hope this little treatise helps.

    As for “refining” something, there is nothing to be refined. Our sins have been atoned for and propiation has been made. The Bible does say that we will all stand before God. It also says we have a personal lawyer who has lots of influence. 🙂

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  57. I am here to help AJ get to 100!!
    Qod….I taught SS to 3rd and 4th graders….loved that age! My most blessed time of ministry was when I was nurturing and caring for my newborn foster babies…and spending time with birthmothers and adoptive mothers….my favorite moments of ministry….in the middle of the night…changing and feeding the precious newborn….singing and praying over him or her….and His Spirit was there with us….the sweet aroma of His presence remains with me….oh thank you Lord for allowing me to care for Your precious babies….. 🙂
    I also loved ministering as a volunteer at Hospice…to hold the hand of a dear patient as they slipped into heaven and to care for their empty vessel before the family came in to say goodbye was an experience like none other….so thankful to minister to their needs…..

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  58. Nancyjill got 57 in trying to help AJ get 100. I don’t know the significance of that, but I know it’s a magic number. It is the year Elvera and I were married.

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  59. The posts are numbered on my screen for some reason….so sorry I got 57…I believe that is a magic number for Peter and Mumsee….I claim the number in their honor!! 🙂 And yours and Elvera’s as well….!…. I was 3 yrs old in 57….

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  61. Posts are not numbered at all. You have to remember the number at the top if you want to know. I can’t remember from time, unless it’s a significant number.

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  63. We’ve seen pictures of the situation room during the Ben Laden attack several times. Each time, I’m fascinated by Obama’s body language. It’s like he doesn’t want to be noticed. He’s the only one scrunched down like he wants to be somewhere else.

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  64. Nancyjill, I have never fostered children and I have only ever taken care of my own baby but I will always cherish rocking her and singing to her. I have a horrible singing voice and have had more than one person tell me not to do it, but my baby didn’t care. I believe I was at my absolute BEST ever when I was rocking her.

    As for the other spectrum, I am totally repulsed by illness and death but my Baby Girl has a compassion for that. When we were in Idaho she met the local WWII hero and thought he was just the cutest thing ever. She asked if we could bring him home. She once told me she wanted to be a pediatric oncology nurse, but I think her true calling will be with the elderly.

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  65. Hey, Kare, I was born in ’62! I think Kay said her daughter was born that year, too. And if I remember right, Kay was born the same year my mother was — 1940.

    Where is Kay, anyway?

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  67. Well thank you Kare! And nice to see you complimenting your sister in the process…most of my siblings (OK, and I, too) enjoy insulting each other! 😀

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  68. Thanks for the responses, Chas and 6 arrows. I also believe, as you two expressed, that the cost of our sins has already been paid. As Jesus said, “It is finished.” Thanks for the Bible verses, 6 arrows. Those are very reassuring verses. I’ll be sure to share them with eldest daughter. It really bothered me that he said that, even though he did state it was “just his opinion,” b/c kids are so impressionable. Some other “leaders” have said a few other things I’ve found objectionable — I just hope she’s telling me everything she finds puzzling so I can discuss it with her. It’s weird, b/c I never hear anything I find theologically disturbing during church services, and our sermons are long (about 40 minutes). I’ve also done a few Bible studies through the church and have noticed nothing. But, last spring they did a relationship/dating/sex seminar with the junior high and high school kids and really emphasized the sinfulness of masturbation. I thought that was odd.

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  69. Donna, the Boll Wevil restaurant in San Diego looks like a Cracker Barrel except for the color and chairs. Do you know if they are connected?
    Do you have Cracker Barrel in SD? We don’t have Boll Wevil here.

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  70. Ann, I remember telling our youth that they should always go back to Scripture and double check to make sure that what is being preached is correct. We said even the sermons from Sunday morning that the pastor gave should be sure to line up with the Bible. One kid went home and told his parents that we said not to believe anything the pastor said!!! We had to do some explaining on that one – thankfully, it turned out well and the parents agreed that we need to see what Scripture says and that verses are being used in context. I’m sure glad your daughter came to you and pray that she keeps coming to you or going to the Bible to find out for herself what it actually says, not what someone’s opinion of what it says.

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  71. I remember attending an adult Sunday school class where the leader and a few of the more talkative ones, kept using the phrase “I think it means…” using their own ideas, instead of looking at what it actually said. It was a frustrating experience because if they didn’t agree fully with a verse or passage, they would just pass over it and say what they believed.

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  72. Were the parents invited to be at that seminar, Ann? The topics of relationship/dating/sex are better addressed by Christian parents, in my opinion, than the church. At the very least, I would hope that parents were notified and not only welcome to attend, but encouraged to be there. And I agree that children can be very impressionable. The spoken or written words of someone they know or respect, or even someone they don’t know but who is an engaging speaker or writer, can hold tremendous sway, even when their words are prefaced by “This is just my opinion”.

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  73. Oops, didn’t get my italics closed properly! “Encouraged” should have been the only italicized word. I see in my closing of it, I forgot the “i” and only had .

    Do you think maybe it’s time for me to go do something else? 😉

    Kare, amen to the “always go back to Scripture and double check to make sure that what is being preached is correct.”

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  76. 75!! There, I got one of the numbers significant to me and mumsee- the year we graduated from high school. 57 is when we (and Kevin B) were born. Maybe someday we’ll actually meet each other.

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  78. Ah! Kare slipped in. That’s okay.

    As for closed communion, can anyone point to a scripture to support it? Not some doctrinal statement or church confession, but a verse from Scripture. I know of the one where Paul warns of taking the Lord’s supper without being right with God (I think he says in an unworthy manner in some translations). It seems to me that all one needs is to be a baptized believer. At our church, the pastor reminds people of that warning, but leaves it up to the individual to decide, as it should be. Our walk with God is personal, between us and God. We shouldn’t need some man-made document to prove to others we can take communion. If one does so unworthily, it is God he has to answer to, not another human or church committee.

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  79. Peter, I don’t believe in Closed Communion either. But the way a Plymouth Bretherin guy explained it to me was that Jesus had the part where he offered the bread and wine to the disciples was after Judas left.
    My opinion is that this is a weak argument. We don’t know exactly when Judas left. He was there to dip his bread in the sauce with Jesus. He left during the supper, but we don’t know when. Luke 22:21f indicates that Judas likely was there, but we don’t know that.
    I believe it’s a church thing. Lots of things we observe are church things.
    Church of Christ denomination churches don’t have instruments. It;’s a church thing.

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  80. It is a Christian tradition. New converts to Christianity were in study for up to a year before they were allowed to partake of the bread and wine. Most often new Christians were accepted into the church around Easter. While it may not have Biblical backing it does have historical backing within the Greek Orthodox Church as well as the Roman Catholic.
    It was a way to make sure that spies and others were not infiltrating the church.

    As I stated above, every Sunday our priest welcomes All Baptized Christians to the Lord’s Table. I do believe you should be Baptized and more often than not a member in good standing of the church. I do think visitors who are Baptized should be welcome and I know that I have no way of knowing if they are or not. When I visit my stepmother’s Lutheran church I think it is a sign of respect for me to speak with Pastor first and have him allow me to receive communion. If I don’t like it there are several other churches I can attend. I have attended the Roman Catholic church with friends and joked that I don’t know the “secret password” to receive communion but I don’t have to attend church there. As a sign of respect I walk forward, cross my arms and receive a blessing but not communion.

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  82. Peter, I gave Kare a link earlier to Wikipedia that speaks of some Bible verses that adherents of closed communion point to. Here’s that link again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_communion

    From the “Lutheran” section: “This teaching comes[citation needed] from 1 Corinthians 10:16-17 which says, “Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf” and Paul’s teaching of fellowship in 1 Corinthians 1:10, “I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.” These Lutherans also take seriously God’s threat in 1 Corinthians 11:27,29 that “Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of this cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.” Therefore, the belief is that, inviting those forward who have not been first instructed would be unloving on the church’s part, because they would inviting people forward to sin.[16]”

    I’d add a little more context to chapter 11 by starting back at verse 23 (this is from the KJV): “For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.”

    The concern (in more conservative Lutheran churches, anyway) over serving communion to others outside of our fellowship is that they may not believe that they are receiving the body and blood of Christ in the sacrament. There are various beliefs about what communion is and does, what elements are present, etc. Those who may feel that the bread and wine represent Christ’s body and blood, for example, but don’t take these words literally, “This IS my body…this IS my blood” [emphasis mine] would, in the words of verse 29 (KJV again), be eating and drinking “damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.”

    I’ll stop there for now.

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  83. Favorite ministries would be a range. I enjoyed camp coounseling but found it hard work, and very frustrating. (Partly because they’d pair the most immature junior counselors with me, figuring I could “take up the slack” for them. And, well I saw some pretty bad things in my years counseling.)

    Teaching Sunday school was something I enjoyed, but the more I did it the more I saw there wasn’t a lot of benefit in it . . . kids who were taught well at home didn’t “need” it and kids who weren’t didn’t get much from it. I have a strong bias now toward family-based classes, not age-graded ones. (Oh, and whoever spoke of PCA churches that aren’t large enough to have programs for kids: Presbyterians traditionally haven’t chosen to separate out various age groups for ministry, and my own life experience has seen little profit and much harm in doing so. Youth groups really bother me–they tend to have immature, doctrinally weak “leaders” and there is a lot of sexual sin hiding in some of them, with little oversight.)

    I loved the foster kids I had, but found that just about the hardest thing I ever did, emotionally, physically, etc.

    One of my favorites would have to be driving senior citizens to the doctor–especially as I built relationships with one or two and got to know them over the weeks. They didn’t actually call on me all that often–I would have done it weekly, but got called monthly on average, or maybe less–but I enjoyed doing it.

    Probably my very favorite is finding behind-the-scenes ways to encourage people, like making cards for special events, to tell people we’re praying for them, and so forth.

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  84. 6 Arrows, my belief that the Lutherans are wrong about the Lord’s supper (it’s too close to the error of Catholicism) is what would keep me from participating in a Lutheran church, even if it is “open” to me; that and baptism being a little too close to baptismal regeneration in some Lutheran denominations would keep me from becoming Lutheran. (I briefly looked at such a possibility when I was walking away from being a Baptist.)

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  87. Re transgender: we do have to realize there are some legitimate medical issues sometimes. When Mom was in her seventies, she lived in a apartment complex and got to know a neighbor a few years older. Mom told me the neighbor had confided that at birth her gender was “indeterminate” and they chose to make her female . . . but she had believed for years that they chose badly and she should have been male. I know that now they sometimes wait in such cases to do any surgery, watching the child for natural hints of which sex he / she is; most children have pretty obvious differences by age two.

    I think sometimes it probably takes more than that. If a child is obviously biologically one gender (including a clear XX or XY chromosone), then probably some counseling and hormone therapy (therapy toward the child’s biological gender, and not away from it!) would be in order. To decide to take radical changes away from the child’s actual sex is an outrage even if the child thinks he wants it. Parents have responsibility to do a child good, not harm.

    A few years ago I read this book (before the twin boys–my age–had both died) and found it one of the most tragic stories I had ever read: http://www.amazon.com/As-Nature-Made-Him-Raised/dp/0061120561/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1376618288&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=boy+who+was+raised+as+a+girl

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  88. Church membership (any Bible teaching Christian church) is on of the conditions for taking communion at our church because that is indicative if one is “right with God,” as Peter put it.

    Christians who are alienated or separated from the visible church have an issue that needs to be resolved.

    The warning also is issued to us that partaking can be a curse. Obviously, the elders can’t know everyone’s heart so it is, in that sense, then left up to the individual to decide for him or herself as the elements are passed (and we observe the Lord’s Supper weekly).

    And I do often think that the ‘best’ ministry takes place quietly, on a one-to-one basis — in prayer, encouragement, and service to others.

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  96. I am here late today. Lots of interesting talk on the thread today.

    It would be hard to pick a favorite ministry. I have enjoyed working in church precschool, helping teach children’s Sunday School, VBS, worked in the church media center, worked with Bible Drill, prepared meals for Ronald McDonald House,, and now I am writing reviews of Christian books and gathering books to send to a prison ministry. I also have been involved in several prayer groups. Homeschooling was a ministry of sorts but since I only had one child, it seems a bit lame to classify it as a ministry. I think of ministry as reaching a group with the gospel message.

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  99. Sounds like Anonymous is Janice. Reaching a child through homeschooling or any other way with the gospel message IS a ministry. That’s my take! 🙂

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  108. Yes, AJ, that is most definitely something…a GREAT blessing. 🙂 Where else can I meet with a wonderful group of Christians, have a great theological debate, and get 100 all in the same day? 😉 Thank you bunches for your ministry here, AJ.

    Good night, all.

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  112. 6 Arrows, I just got my dishes done, too! It has been one long day with way too much to do. And it was the evening of the virtual prayer call I participate in with a nice group of ladies. It is such a blessing to have Christian friends. Thanks, AJ, for making this site work out for such a nice group of people who love Jesus. And for our resident atheist. I almost wrote resident alien, LOL. It is late and the brain is tired.

    I was praying, especially for the Nest, as I washed dishes. Lots of people who need Xtra prayer lately.

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  113. Donna, I’ll have some Bonnie Butter cake with Lemon Cream Cheese Frosting and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. That is what I made for our son’s birthday and it was really good!

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  114. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread today, but fear I’m a little late to the party! I tend to agree with Peter about communion–I think it’s best left up to you and God. But, I also agree with Kim (and others) that one should respect the practices of the church one is attending and refrain from communion if that is what the church dictates. I’ve never taken communion at a Catholic or Lutheran church, but have taken it at numerous other denominations that invited “all Baptized believers” to the table. That is my preference, but I must admit to not having much scripture to defend my feelings on this issue.

    6 arrows: Parents were able to attend the seminar, but I was unable to due to Becca being ill that week. I did read an outline of what would be discussed and felt fairly comfortable with it. Unfortunately, after speaking with eldest daughter after-the-fact, I discovered there was quite a bit I was uncomfortable with! We did have a very good conversation about these things, based on her questions. The seminar was supposed to be biblically-based — sometimes there is just so much variation in people’s interpretation of scripture that it can be confusing, especially to a thirteen year old. I explained to her that we will not know everything this side of heaven — just like a two-year old can’t be expected to understand the reasons his parents do certain things or follow a complex conversation, we are limited in our understanding of God. He is incomprehensible to our limited minds. I recognize there are things we can and do know about God, but it is far from everything. It is such a blessing to me that she is interested in knowing God and desires to learn about Him. I was an avowed atheist at her age with a very hard heart. That worldview would last until I was 22, when the Holy Spirit began to melt my hardened exterior and I began searching for the truth. I still didn’t surrender for a few more years, but I vividly remember being 25 years old, in a hotel room at a Christian Social Worker’s conference in Detroit, Michigan, bawling my eyes out on my knees, begging for forgiveness and for Jesus to come and live in my heart. What was it C.S. Lewis said? Something about being the most reluctant convert in all of England? That about sums up my testimony, the reluctant part.

    Btw, I was the one who said something about the PCA church that’s close to us not having much for the youth. The church only has about 50 members currently and meets in a rented building. It just doesn’t fit our family well. I grew up in a very small church that emphasized the wrath of God more frequently than they talked about grace. And the sermons were way over my head, even as a teenager. It was like trying to take a final exam in Spanish IV when you’ve never had Spanish I. I didn’t get much out of it or meet anyone that made me think, “gee! Something is different about him. I wonder what it is?” It wasn’t until I attended Second Baptist in Houston that I met some wonderful girls who made me want what they had. They were different. They had a light in their eyes that I coveted. So–I share all this to explain why I want a church with a strong youth program. My kid loves doing stuff with the youth group. This summer, in addition to many service opportunities, they’ve done a lot of fun stuff, too. I’m glad she has the opportunity to be with others who share her belief in God and to develop friendships with them.

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  116. Note to Kevin B- If you reread my post about the #57, you’ll see that I said “we (and Kevin B)…” I included mumsee in the “we” part, I wasn’t using the Royal We.

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