I gotta say, I’m a little surprised by the one sided discussion yesterday about the Epoch Times.
While Falun Gong members appear to work there, they repeatedly state they are not run or funded by them.
Who says otherwise? Well the NYT and other liberal sources according to Wiki, which your judgement needs to be questioned if that’s your main source. So you attack the messengers and side with known liars at the NYT, WaPo and numerous other untrustworthy sources who’ve lied for 5 years about everything Trump related?
Really?
Your sources for this are known trash. They attack the ET because they can’t stand someone telling truth to their lies. I get you don’t like the cult of FG, no one should, yet you’ll taker the word of cultist Mormons?
Don’t attack what you think are the messengers, search for the truth. Is what they’re saying more accurate than what the NYT and other sources have been putting out? That’s what matters. Tell me how they’re wrong or dishonest. If it’s as you say, it should be easy to show. I’ve demonstrated repeatedly over the years the legions of reasons not to trust most media. So tell me why I shouldn’t trust the ET when they’re one of the few who’ve been right the last several years.
New: Texas electors vote 34-4 to call on Legislatures in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan and Wisconsin — whose election results handed the White House @JoeBiden — to appoint their own electors.
AJ, thank you for your posts regarding the Epoch Times. I had wondered about the sources for the FG connection. It is all so mind boggling. It becomes easier and less time consuming in the grand scheme to go to meetings and events for oneself (especially since they are many times held online) and see for oneself rather than relying on some blurry and misaligned news source. I wish I could read more news but my eyes are not up to it. But I can attend events and listen.
And I know this will not be well received, but the church needs to stay focused in these times.
Michael Horton : "My public calling is not to bind Christian consciences to my own political positions. Rather, as a minister of the Word, I am joining others in sounding the alarm that a line has been crossed into rank spiritual adultery." https://t.co/YPaFxqxeWr
Similar to my friend up in Moscow in dealing with Doug and his people flaunting the mask rules and claiming their freedom in maskless open air hymn sings and entering stores en masse not in mask.
That is true, Donna. None of us are called to insist that others think like we do or require others to think as we do. I have always thought that as the blog master that AJ has this page in particular as a place where he can go to put out what he finds of interest based on his political leanings. He can let off some steam, here, too. He has been gracious in allowing others to do the same. But when people get pushy about saying you must read this or that then it feels overbearing. I never expect people to read or watch what I post if it offends their senses and they find it disagreeable. I know that we have all lost such a sense of control over our lives and when people insist even in a nice way that people consider a different view, at least for me, it comes across as someone trying to change my mind, trying to push me into taking on their views over and above my own, and basically saying I have no right to any opinion except for their opinion. IMHO ♡
The church is being rocked right now on many fronts. The 2020 furor of U.S. politics is one of them that seems to be verging on idolatry as it whips through the Christian community. We need to beware of being so caught up in the heat of the “day” we live in that we lose site that God is, indeed, sovereign.
I don’t care who you vote for (or choose to read or scroll past; I do my share of scrolling past posts to be honest). My point is only that this post-election uproar is causing much unrest (and is leading to doctrinal error among many, based on the post above) within the church itself. And that’s a big concern we should all have.
Be active, vote.
But keep it in perspective. Politics and election years will come and go, this nation probably will “go” at some point. Or maybe not. God may be done using the U.S. Or not. We don’t know and so we do what we can to be good citizens and vote for the best (if not ‘perfect’) people according to our conscience.
Do we believe God is sovereign in all things? That there is a bigger picture unfolding that we’ll never fully see or understand in our “blip” of history?
~ At the same time, there is a theological heart to Christian Trumpism. Please note that I am not talking about voting for President Trump or one’s appraisal of the election’s outcome. Equally sincere Christians may be divided over these matters, which is why the Lord gave us Christian freedom to vote our conscience. Further, I’ve said quite a lot over the past several decades in criticism of those on the left (as well as the right) for trying to make Jesus a mascot in the culture wars ….
… For many of us, it’s easy to recognize the assimilation of Christian faith to cultural and political progressivism. But it’s time for all of us—finally—to take the log out of our own eye. The “Jericho March” was a blip in the news cycle, but maybe it can be a wakeup call for Christ’s body.
What we’re witnessing on the national stage right now is disgraceful. In fact, the only word for it is blasphemy—the sacrilege not of secularists marching on Washington to take away religious freedom but of evangelicals marching on Washington to perpetuate a cult. We might have ignored this as a spectacle, a performance by a handful of voices in opposition to the Constitutional system of our republic. But I feel conscience-bound as a minister of the Word to warn against what can only be considered a heresy—indeed, a cult within a certain segment of evangelicalism. It has arisen over many decades and will no doubt be around for many more to come. …
… While worrying about secularists outside, many of us have failed to reckon with the secularization right under our noses, as the rich cuisine of biblical faith is traded for a mess of pop-culture stew. This idolatry inhibits the church’s work of evangelism in myriad ways.
The ‘Jericho March’ was a blip in the news cycle, but maybe it can be a wakeup call for Christ’s body.
Internally, it turns the saving gospel into worldly power; externally, the hypocrisy of some evangelicals has been exposed to a cynical and watching world. …
… I don’t know the demographic size of this movement, but it seems to represent the confluence of three trends that have seethed independently until converging, especially in the neo-Pentecostal movement that traditionally has not been identified with evangelicalism per se. These three trends are (1) Christian Americanism, (2) end-times conspiracy, and (3) the prosperity gospel. … ~
I was just on the line with my Bible study/ prayer group and ended our prayer time praising God for His sovereignty over it all. I also prayed that as the Holy Spirit groans for us when we are overwhelmed with difficulties and don’t know how to pray that the Holy Spirit can speak praises for us when we don’t have enough known words to say how great God is. I certainly am not confusing God for any political leader. At the same time, I can’t put my will above God’s will and say He can’t use one leader because he has more character flaws than another. IMHO
Just wondering on the piece about the voting machine security if McConnell could have voted against the updates because that would cover up anything fraudulent that can still be exposed from the Nov. and Jan. elections? Just a thought, AJ.
This is a very difficult time for everyone, we’ve all been hit with a lot. Praying for added long breaths and, in God’s mercy, that there would be no more turmoil beyond what we’ve already had to endure both in the pandemic and in current affairs gone sideways. lol
God ordains kings, he uses all of them in one way or another, no matter how flawed. We just can’t see behind the curtain what the “point” of it all, ultimately, might be.
A huge dose of humility for us as we see it all unfold, whatever it all will mean.
The Epoch Times was founded 20 years ago in Atlanta by Chinese-Americans who had fled Communist China.
“The Epoch Times is America’s fastest-growing independent news media. Founded in 2000, our mission is to bring you a truthful view of the world free from the influence of any government, corporation, or political party. We aim to tell you what we see, not how to think; we strive to deliver you a factual picture of reality that lets you form your own opinions.
The “epoch” in our name represents our commitment to this mission. We believe that we live in truly epochal times, where the faithful representation of our current events won’t just be important for the people of today, but also the generations of tomorrow. The records we keep now will directly inform the foundations of the history they’ll learn and the values they’ll cherish – and this knowledge is what drives us.”
AJ – You could have defended The Epoch Times without the somewhat-personal attack (“. . . your judgement needs to be questioned. . .”) by expressing what you find good about it. If the discussion yesterday seemed one-sided, it was because no one expressed a differing opinion, which they certainly could have.
Btw, you exhorted to not attack the messenger . . . by attacking the other messengers.
To claim that The Epoch Times is not a trustworthy publication ifs false. To claim that it is published by the Falun Gong is also false. To claim that the ET should be viewed with as much skepticism as The Watchtower publication of the JW is actually slander.
“While The Epoch Times was founded by Falun Gong practitioners, it is an independent business that neither represents Falun Gong nor is owned by it.”
“The secret to The Epoch Times’ success lies in its beginning: a fierce independence and a dedication to telling the truth. Readers around the world are hungry for news that is independent of governments, corporations, or political parties. And they want an alternative to the agenda-driven news that unfortunately dominates so much of media today.”
Janice – I’m sorry that you feel that those of us who offer differing views on certain matters are being pushy. I can assure you that that is not my intention, and I’m sure it’s not DJ’s, either. The other views are much more prevalent on the news thread than anything DJ or I (or any other outlier) may share. A thread with only one accepted view would not a discussion, it would only be an echo chamber.
I have learned a lot over the years, and even changed or tweaked my views (politically and theologically), by seriously considering other views. But even in that, it has been the people (and writers of articles) who offered those views without using sarcasm, snark, or other similar crappy attitudes that have had an influence on me. (You know how offensive YA can be. I am resistant to much of what she posts. But someone else can make the same point in a rational, respectful way that I am open to considering.) DJ and I try to share things that express a differing view in a rational way, with no intention of offending anyone.
I appreciate what you said, Kizzie. If news is just posted from alternative points of view without the other plea that they be considered, then I have no problem. But the pleas to pay attention for your own good and the good of the rest of the world is what seems pushy. It is almost like guilting people into doing something because they are bad people if they do not listen to you. I don’t think you see it that way at all, bug that is how it makes me feel. It’s a subtle type of coersion to me. It’s like saying, “I am on the high road, and you are on the low road. I have superior knowledge to choose the right source of news.” I have thought recently that it might be good to have three political threads. One for far right news, one for mainline/left leaning news, and a third one for discussion of the issues for those who want to go there. I would daily look at the far right news. As time permitted I would check out the discussions. If something there piqued my interest then I would read the article on the mainline/left-leaning news. It would not involve someone telling me what I better do so I can be a good person.
I’d say we need to question all sources of news, including those that seem to confirm our own opinions – and not trust any one of them wholesale without doing that.
Most will include a mix of truth and error — and we may not always have the information we need to discern which is which, unfortunately.
Janice, for any of us, our views or our opinions are not what is most important. Nor should we need the “safe places” where nothing will challenge us that many have mocked some college students for needing. Our desire should be to seek truth, even if it’s not in line with our original opinion on a matter, and even if it makes us uncomfortable for a while. As Christians, it actually is very important that we seek truth.
For me personally, I’m happy to read “the other side” at times and maybe learn something new. Certainly if it is being presented by a brother or sister in Christ, it might be worth reading. You might recall that a couple of years ago I was very uncomfortable when one of my favorite speakers and writers was shown to be in sin. But I did the research and determined the charges were valid, as much as I hoped they weren’t and as much as my first assumptions were he was probably innocent.
Obviously none of us has time to read everything–but that’s why those of us who post links sometimes say something casual like “Just in case you’re interested” and other times say “This is really important!” Personally, if someone I respect tells me something is really important, I’m more likely to read it than if they post it without flagging it as important.
Janice – We may preface a link with something like Cheryl mentioned, or as I often say, “Worth considering”, or something like that, but those prefaces are not meant to be pushy, nor are they trying to tell anyone that they are bad for having a different opinion. Those kinds of prefaces are common on social media.
Thank you, ladies, for expressing your points of view. I will take it into prayer as I do not know how to respond. Perhaps I need to take a break from the political arena. I will vote. That is my required action at this point. Otherwise, all else is just speculation. I will wait on God who knows the truth. Blessings and peace to all.
When the other messengers are known liars, they tend to be “attacked” (as you put it) for it. The Wiki link you posted was a biased hit piece which used other biased hit pieces to “prove” their point. Yet they provided no concrete evidence that FG is behind this, just some reporters opinion, which he heard from another reporter.
A simple search of the footnotes and clicking on the links shows this. Wiki is useless, hence my statement. They’re as useful as the “fact checks” out there everywhere. Mostly just opinion of lefties using other lefties to parrot their talking points in a never ending echo chamber. That’s not an attack on you, those are just the facts. Don’t take it personal, but don’t fall for Wiki’s known biases either.
Now again.
Someone show me that the ET is wrong on any of the facts they’ve asserted about the election and all the fraud. I’ve been “proving” my position about those outlets I disagree with and demonstrated clearly how they lie, cheat, libel, and omit facts. I’m asking for those who think the ET is a disreputable source to present their facts. I’m patiently awaiting a response.
Wandering Views 
Noting interesting the news today.
Re: the Bidens.
Perfect example of the fox guarding the chicken coop.
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I gotta say, I’m a little surprised by the one sided discussion yesterday about the Epoch Times.
While Falun Gong members appear to work there, they repeatedly state they are not run or funded by them.
Who says otherwise? Well the NYT and other liberal sources according to Wiki, which your judgement needs to be questioned if that’s your main source. So you attack the messengers and side with known liars at the NYT, WaPo and numerous other untrustworthy sources who’ve lied for 5 years about everything Trump related?
Really?
Your sources for this are known trash. They attack the ET because they can’t stand someone telling truth to their lies. I get you don’t like the cult of FG, no one should, yet you’ll taker the word of cultist Mormons?
Don’t attack what you think are the messengers, search for the truth. Is what they’re saying more accurate than what the NYT and other sources have been putting out? That’s what matters. Tell me how they’re wrong or dishonest. If it’s as you say, it should be easy to show. I’ve demonstrated repeatedly over the years the legions of reasons not to trust most media. So tell me why I shouldn’t trust the ET when they’re one of the few who’ve been right the last several years.
And you’re going to have to do better than Wiki.
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And don’t waste time telling me about other FG groups. I could care less. I’m only concerned with the news source, the ET.
Thanks.
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https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1339267693933944832
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AJ, thank you for your posts regarding the Epoch Times. I had wondered about the sources for the FG connection. It is all so mind boggling. It becomes easier and less time consuming in the grand scheme to go to meetings and events for oneself (especially since they are many times held online) and see for oneself rather than relying on some blurry and misaligned news source. I wish I could read more news but my eyes are not up to it. But I can attend events and listen.
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And I know this will not be well received, but the church needs to stay focused in these times.
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It does. I had just put this down to some misguided people, Christians or not. But it does need to be brought into the Light.
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Similar to my friend up in Moscow in dealing with Doug and his people flaunting the mask rules and claiming their freedom in maskless open air hymn sings and entering stores en masse not in mask.
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That is true, Donna. None of us are called to insist that others think like we do or require others to think as we do. I have always thought that as the blog master that AJ has this page in particular as a place where he can go to put out what he finds of interest based on his political leanings. He can let off some steam, here, too. He has been gracious in allowing others to do the same. But when people get pushy about saying you must read this or that then it feels overbearing. I never expect people to read or watch what I post if it offends their senses and they find it disagreeable. I know that we have all lost such a sense of control over our lives and when people insist even in a nice way that people consider a different view, at least for me, it comes across as someone trying to change my mind, trying to push me into taking on their views over and above my own, and basically saying I have no right to any opinion except for their opinion. IMHO ♡
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The church is being rocked right now on many fronts. The 2020 furor of U.S. politics is one of them that seems to be verging on idolatry as it whips through the Christian community. We need to beware of being so caught up in the heat of the “day” we live in that we lose site that God is, indeed, sovereign.
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An interesting development….
ES&S and Dominion are the two companies in question.
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I don’t care who you vote for (or choose to read or scroll past; I do my share of scrolling past posts to be honest). My point is only that this post-election uproar is causing much unrest (and is leading to doctrinal error among many, based on the post above) within the church itself. And that’s a big concern we should all have.
Be active, vote.
But keep it in perspective. Politics and election years will come and go, this nation probably will “go” at some point. Or maybe not. God may be done using the U.S. Or not. We don’t know and so we do what we can to be good citizens and vote for the best (if not ‘perfect’) people according to our conscience.
Do we believe God is sovereign in all things? That there is a bigger picture unfolding that we’ll never fully see or understand in our “blip” of history?
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(Horton on the ‘Jericho March’ movement)
~ At the same time, there is a theological heart to Christian Trumpism. Please note that I am not talking about voting for President Trump or one’s appraisal of the election’s outcome. Equally sincere Christians may be divided over these matters, which is why the Lord gave us Christian freedom to vote our conscience. Further, I’ve said quite a lot over the past several decades in criticism of those on the left (as well as the right) for trying to make Jesus a mascot in the culture wars ….
… For many of us, it’s easy to recognize the assimilation of Christian faith to cultural and political progressivism. But it’s time for all of us—finally—to take the log out of our own eye. The “Jericho March” was a blip in the news cycle, but maybe it can be a wakeup call for Christ’s body.
What we’re witnessing on the national stage right now is disgraceful. In fact, the only word for it is blasphemy—the sacrilege not of secularists marching on Washington to take away religious freedom but of evangelicals marching on Washington to perpetuate a cult. We might have ignored this as a spectacle, a performance by a handful of voices in opposition to the Constitutional system of our republic. But I feel conscience-bound as a minister of the Word to warn against what can only be considered a heresy—indeed, a cult within a certain segment of evangelicalism. It has arisen over many decades and will no doubt be around for many more to come. …
… While worrying about secularists outside, many of us have failed to reckon with the secularization right under our noses, as the rich cuisine of biblical faith is traded for a mess of pop-culture stew. This idolatry inhibits the church’s work of evangelism in myriad ways.
The ‘Jericho March’ was a blip in the news cycle, but maybe it can be a wakeup call for Christ’s body.
Internally, it turns the saving gospel into worldly power; externally, the hypocrisy of some evangelicals has been exposed to a cynical and watching world. …
… I don’t know the demographic size of this movement, but it seems to represent the confluence of three trends that have seethed independently until converging, especially in the neo-Pentecostal movement that traditionally has not been identified with evangelicalism per se. These three trends are (1) Christian Americanism, (2) end-times conspiracy, and (3) the prosperity gospel. … ~
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I was just on the line with my Bible study/ prayer group and ended our prayer time praising God for His sovereignty over it all. I also prayed that as the Holy Spirit groans for us when we are overwhelmed with difficulties and don’t know how to pray that the Holy Spirit can speak praises for us when we don’t have enough known words to say how great God is. I certainly am not confusing God for any political leader. At the same time, I can’t put my will above God’s will and say He can’t use one leader because he has more character flaws than another. IMHO
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Just wondering on the piece about the voting machine security if McConnell could have voted against the updates because that would cover up anything fraudulent that can still be exposed from the Nov. and Jan. elections? Just a thought, AJ.
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This is a very difficult time for everyone, we’ve all been hit with a lot. Praying for added long breaths and, in God’s mercy, that there would be no more turmoil beyond what we’ve already had to endure both in the pandemic and in current affairs gone sideways. lol
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God ordains kings, he uses all of them in one way or another, no matter how flawed. We just can’t see behind the curtain what the “point” of it all, ultimately, might be.
A huge dose of humility for us as we see it all unfold, whatever it all will mean.
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The Epoch Times was founded 20 years ago in Atlanta by Chinese-Americans who had fled Communist China.
“The Epoch Times is America’s fastest-growing independent news media. Founded in 2000, our mission is to bring you a truthful view of the world free from the influence of any government, corporation, or political party. We aim to tell you what we see, not how to think; we strive to deliver you a factual picture of reality that lets you form your own opinions.
The “epoch” in our name represents our commitment to this mission. We believe that we live in truly epochal times, where the faithful representation of our current events won’t just be important for the people of today, but also the generations of tomorrow. The records we keep now will directly inform the foundations of the history they’ll learn and the values they’ll cherish – and this knowledge is what drives us.”
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AJ – You could have defended The Epoch Times without the somewhat-personal attack (“. . . your judgement needs to be questioned. . .”) by expressing what you find good about it. If the discussion yesterday seemed one-sided, it was because no one expressed a differing opinion, which they certainly could have.
Btw, you exhorted to not attack the messenger . . . by attacking the other messengers.
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To claim that The Epoch Times is not a trustworthy publication ifs false. To claim that it is published by the Falun Gong is also false. To claim that the ET should be viewed with as much skepticism as The Watchtower publication of the JW is actually slander.
https://help.theepochtimes.com/hc/en-us/articles/360050464891-What-is-the-Relationship-between-The-Epoch-Times-and-Falun-Gong-
“While The Epoch Times was founded by Falun Gong practitioners, it is an independent business that neither represents Falun Gong nor is owned by it.”
“The secret to The Epoch Times’ success lies in its beginning: a fierce independence and a dedication to telling the truth. Readers around the world are hungry for news that is independent of governments, corporations, or political parties. And they want an alternative to the agenda-driven news that unfortunately dominates so much of media today.”
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Janice – I’m sorry that you feel that those of us who offer differing views on certain matters are being pushy. I can assure you that that is not my intention, and I’m sure it’s not DJ’s, either. The other views are much more prevalent on the news thread than anything DJ or I (or any other outlier) may share. A thread with only one accepted view would not a discussion, it would only be an echo chamber.
I have learned a lot over the years, and even changed or tweaked my views (politically and theologically), by seriously considering other views. But even in that, it has been the people (and writers of articles) who offered those views without using sarcasm, snark, or other similar crappy attitudes that have had an influence on me. (You know how offensive YA can be. I am resistant to much of what she posts. But someone else can make the same point in a rational, respectful way that I am open to considering.) DJ and I try to share things that express a differing view in a rational way, with no intention of offending anyone.
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Tychicus – Thank you for that information.
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I appreciate what you said, Kizzie. If news is just posted from alternative points of view without the other plea that they be considered, then I have no problem. But the pleas to pay attention for your own good and the good of the rest of the world is what seems pushy. It is almost like guilting people into doing something because they are bad people if they do not listen to you. I don’t think you see it that way at all, bug that is how it makes me feel. It’s a subtle type of coersion to me. It’s like saying, “I am on the high road, and you are on the low road. I have superior knowledge to choose the right source of news.” I have thought recently that it might be good to have three political threads. One for far right news, one for mainline/left leaning news, and a third one for discussion of the issues for those who want to go there. I would daily look at the far right news. As time permitted I would check out the discussions. If something there piqued my interest then I would read the article on the mainline/left-leaning news. It would not involve someone telling me what I better do so I can be a good person.
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I’d say we need to question all sources of news, including those that seem to confirm our own opinions – and not trust any one of them wholesale without doing that.
Most will include a mix of truth and error — and we may not always have the information we need to discern which is which, unfortunately.
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As for the Jerico March, I had never heard of it personally and just felt it was important for Christians to be aware.
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Janice, for any of us, our views or our opinions are not what is most important. Nor should we need the “safe places” where nothing will challenge us that many have mocked some college students for needing. Our desire should be to seek truth, even if it’s not in line with our original opinion on a matter, and even if it makes us uncomfortable for a while. As Christians, it actually is very important that we seek truth.
For me personally, I’m happy to read “the other side” at times and maybe learn something new. Certainly if it is being presented by a brother or sister in Christ, it might be worth reading. You might recall that a couple of years ago I was very uncomfortable when one of my favorite speakers and writers was shown to be in sin. But I did the research and determined the charges were valid, as much as I hoped they weren’t and as much as my first assumptions were he was probably innocent.
Obviously none of us has time to read everything–but that’s why those of us who post links sometimes say something casual like “Just in case you’re interested” and other times say “This is really important!” Personally, if someone I respect tells me something is really important, I’m more likely to read it than if they post it without flagging it as important.
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Janice – We may preface a link with something like Cheryl mentioned, or as I often say, “Worth considering”, or something like that, but those prefaces are not meant to be pushy, nor are they trying to tell anyone that they are bad for having a different opinion. Those kinds of prefaces are common on social media.
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Thank you, ladies, for expressing your points of view. I will take it into prayer as I do not know how to respond. Perhaps I need to take a break from the political arena. I will vote. That is my required action at this point. Otherwise, all else is just speculation. I will wait on God who knows the truth. Blessings and peace to all.
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Blessings to you, Janice.
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Kizzie,
When the other messengers are known liars, they tend to be “attacked” (as you put it) for it. The Wiki link you posted was a biased hit piece which used other biased hit pieces to “prove” their point. Yet they provided no concrete evidence that FG is behind this, just some reporters opinion, which he heard from another reporter.
A simple search of the footnotes and clicking on the links shows this. Wiki is useless, hence my statement. They’re as useful as the “fact checks” out there everywhere. Mostly just opinion of lefties using other lefties to parrot their talking points in a never ending echo chamber. That’s not an attack on you, those are just the facts. Don’t take it personal, but don’t fall for Wiki’s known biases either.
Now again.
Someone show me that the ET is wrong on any of the facts they’ve asserted about the election and all the fraud. I’ve been “proving” my position about those outlets I disagree with and demonstrated clearly how they lie, cheat, libel, and omit facts. I’m asking for those who think the ET is a disreputable source to present their facts. I’m patiently awaiting a response.
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https://twitter.com/hollandcourtney/status/1339378122362290176
———–
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