65 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 12-15-20

  1. Good morning.

    A not of caution: I have been noticing on comment boards on World magazine articles that a lot of people are linking to articles by the Epoch Times to support their assertions. A copy of the Epoch Times recently appeared in our mailbox, unsolicited. It is not a trustworthy publication. It is published by the Falun Gong, a cult that originated in China as part of the qiqong movement. The practices of the Falun Gong seek assimilation into the supreme nature of the universe. The Falun Gong has been persecuted by the Communist party in China, which has given it sympathy in the West, but it should not be mistaken for a benign or trustworthy organization simply because China has persecuted it. It is a cult whose false gospel preaches another way of salvation. When I was in the city, I encountered a group at a bus stop – the same location where I also have encountered Mormon missionaries – that was actively handing out ‘evangelical’ literature from the Falun Gong, so they are actively seeking to proselytize. The Epoch Times should be viewed with as much skepticism as The Watchtower publication of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

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  2. Interesting, Roscuro. We have received unsolicited copies of that paper. It was quite obviously not a straight news source.

    Six arrows: I was once asked to share my birthing experience at a birthing class. I refused; saying that I would not want to scare anyone up with my story. The birth of my oldest was not a smooth birth. First of all, I had another obstetrician call me and tell me he didn’t believe I could deliver the baby without a C-section. The other doctor (the one I had seen all along) disagreed, so I would have a trial of labor. I ended up with an emergency C-section performed by the doctor who had called me. It was a long recovery. Although I went home and did all I needed to do, I was tired too easily. It didn’t help that I had no family around to lend a hand when needed. Nevertheless, I never doubted I wanted another baby.

    We need more snow to help out folks with their septic systems before the horrible cold sets in. We were at 0 yesterday. AJ, I don’t envy the snow you are going to get. So glad you could get your daughter earlier. I hope you all have wonderful holidays together.

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  3. Chas the Lord was hearing prayers for you as you were missing in action…I’m thankful you showed up! 😊
    It is still snowing and blowing around here and a neighbor went over to our park and captured a photo of the 23 elk meandering around. What a beautiful sight!

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  4. Wouldn’t you need the vaccine first before returning, Jo?

    Roscuro (9:00) thank you for that background — I also received an unsolicited copy some time ago also and I’ve since seen it referenced as presumably a credible source on the political thread here.

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  5. DJ, I never read the political thread on here anymore, so I do not know what is being used, but the number of times commenters on World were using it was getting concerning. Incidentally, Falun Gong is also behind the Shen Yun dance company, which heavily markets itself as preserving traditional Chinese dance, claiming China has banned traditional dance. Much as China is under a corrupt Communist regime, it has no more banned traditional dance than Communist Russia ever banned Russian ballet. In fact, like the Soviet Union encouraged ballet as an item cultural heritage (its ballet dance troupes were some of the few people officially allowed beyond the Iron Curtain, and the great dancer Rudolph Nureyev famously defected during one of those official tours), so China has done so with traditional dance.

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  6. We received an unsolicited copy of Epoch and there were a couple of articles in there that were very well written. I suppose we will investigate it further…they do come across as anti communist and pro freedoms in our country…which seems to be a fleeting position amongst many of our citizenry sadly…..
    Thankful all is well at your place Chas!! (And you are always in our prayers…daily!) 😊

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  7. It is a lesson that fails to be taught well enough in churches that:
    “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.” (II Corinthians 11:14-15)

    The greatest danger does not come from the ideologies we recognise as dangerous – such ideologies may threaten us physically, but spiritually will leave us entirely unshaken, as the millions of Christians who remained steadfast throughout Communist regimes testify. The greatest danger comes from those ideologies that appear to agree with our ideology, but at their core deny Christ. Those are the false teachers and ravening wolves who speak what they think we want to hear in order to “make merchandise” of us (II Peter 2:3). As G.K.Chesterton said in his short story ‘The Crime of the Communist’:

    “I told you that heresies and false doctrines had become common and conversational; that everybody was used to them; that nobody really noticed them. Did you think I meant Communism when I said that? Why, it was just the other way. You were all as nervous as cats about Communism… Of course, Communism is a heresy; but it isn’t a heresy that you people take for granted…”

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  8. life just got crazy. Booking tickets, filling out forms and finding out where to get shots.
    Hoping that the public health dept calls me back soon and that they can do polio and flu shots.
    Off to babysit to help out.

    Liked by 5 people

  9. Michelle, Jo posted a few days ago that she appealed and has been given permission to return to PNG. I’m not sure if she has said (Jo?) when she will be returning, but her news met with much rejoicing on here!

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  10. Good afternoon.

    Kathaleena, I had a difficult first birth, as well, though I didn’t end up with a C-sec. No one asked me to share my story, but I did, anyway, to anyone who would listen. I felt a strong need to process it verbally for a long time afterwards, but I probably scared some young women who hadn’t had babies yet!

    I remember one acquaintance (from years before I had children) who had had one child and vehemently announced that she would never again have another child after the childbirth experience she’d had with her son. I don’t know if she ever changed her mind — the boy was elementary-school age during the brief time I knew her — but it certainly didn’t sound likely she ever would.

    When I was in the postpartum room after 1st Arrow’s birth, my OB walked in to see how things were going. He saw me filling out paperwork (to get my son circumcised) and jokingly asked me if I was signing an agreement to have a tubal ligation.

    Grrr. I wasn’t in the mood for “jokes” like that.

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  11. If a one year old sticks her finger into the mouth of another one year old in order to get the yogurt out for herself, she will probably get bitten.

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  12. I wouldn’t tell anyone they shouldn’t read that newspaper; just to be aware of the bias. Our main newspaper changed ownership a year or two ago and the slant of the paper changed to a quite obvious liberal bias. I just keep that in mind when I read it. It is our only choice for any local newspaper, although it does not have as much local news as it used to have.

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  13. No baby news yet.

    My biggest pet peeve was the women at a baby shower telling their ‘horror stories’ of their birth experiences. How to scare a new mom-to-be. Just keep it to yourself!! Or tell your stories out of earshot of the mtb. I always piped up with “J just popped right out” 🙂 (He basically did – it was quite an easy birth, thankfully, with quick and easy recovery).

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  14. Mine too. Always wondered why people would want to scare others like that. People would go on and on about their long labors and I would just smile and nod I too had long labor. Something like eight or twelve hours but that was for all four of them.

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  15. I have watched some of The Chosen and really liked it. I bought about ten copies of Season 1 to donate to Christian Library International last year. Some who are incarcerated can’t read, but they can all watch video.

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  16. Re stories of other mothers’ birth experiences –
    I think one of the benefits of going to the childbirth classes (held at the hospital where I would go for my first child) was getting a sense of the range of likely outcomes. I was expecting pain, but no terrible complications (though of course I knew they were possible). As it turned out, I had a relatively short labor for a first child (about 12 hours from the very first twinge, about three hours where the contractions were what I would consider painful). I was quite relieved, because I had the impression since childhood that it was the worst pain I was likely to experience, and it wasn’t as bad as it had been getting my very swollen knee held in a bent position for an x-ray after a bicycle accident. It was more painful with my second child, not sure how much that’s because I was induced and how much because he was 10 lb 9 oz (compared to a little over 8 lb for my first son), and if I had been asked, toward the end, if I wanted painkillers, I would have said yes, but I was hurting too much to spare attention or breath for asking.

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  17. The twins are probably waiting to be born on Beethoven’s birthday. 🙂 It is presumed to be December 16 that he was born. (No record of it, but there is record of his baptism on December 17, 1770; I have heard that baptisms were customarily performed one day after birth in those days.)

    Mumsee, 5:15, I don’t think anyone wants to scare others with their birth stories. I agree with Pauline — I’m glad to know about the range of birth experiences.

    I read again and again that women who are physically fit tend to have a much easier time in labor — shorter labors, more tolerable pains, etc., etc. As a runner, I was in excellent physical condition going into my first pregnancy, so I pretty much expected I’d breeze through birth just fine. It would have been nice to know that that might not really help me when the baby is turned wrong and has a head circumference in the 95th percentile and is delivered by a doctor who’s in a hurry so cranks up the pitocin to unnaturally high levels so he can get back home before dark.

    In an ultrasound in a future pregnancy, I was asked if I’d had a previous Caesarean or other abdominal surgery. I never had. The tech could see something that looked like an old tear in my uterus. It had to have been from my first birth — those contractions were so violent, even compared to my two other labors where I needed induction or labor enhancement.

    Women left in the dark about everything but the easiest labors sometimes lament, “Why did nobody tell me…?” It’s a legitimate lament, IMO.

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  18. I don’t think they’re/we’re telling to frighten anyone, but to remember our experience–which was uniquely ours and therefore fascinating to us.

    We also like to feel like warriors when we endured . . . but I’ll spare you the details. 🙂

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  19. I hated it when inductions were hurried along during my Labour and Delivery placement. Several of the inductions turned emergency C-sections I was convinced occured because the oxytocin (aka pitocin) was increased too quickly. I started to recognize when a pattern showed a baby who was just barely holding its own with the contractions during inductions. There would be nothing obviously wrong with the heart rhythm, but something about it would make the hairs prick on the back of my neck, and it would be those ones that would suddenly decelerate when the oxytocin was increased a notch. Too many decelerations and we had an emergency C-sections on our hands. It wasn’t the nurses’ faults, they increased as ordered, and often chose not to increase if it didn’t look right. My reading of research into inductions confirmed my theory, that inductions increased too quickly led to emergency C-sections. During my training, there were a couple of different news reports, one of a nurse in another province who had been caught deliberately injecting oxytocin into the bag of saline meant just to hydrate a labouring mother and thus causing women to need emergency C-sections (apparently, she liked the adrenaline rush – a problem that is recognized as being a risk for some people working in emergency situations). Another was of an obstetrician, conveniently just retired to another country, that investigation had revealed he had placed prostaglandin pills to induce labour, without consent, into his clients who had reached term, timing it so that the women would deliver on the weekend when he would get paid more for the delivery. Specialist physicians are contract workers with hospitals and generally get paid by the job. The nurse in charge where I was once got reamed out by an obstetrician on a day when there were almost no deliveries – he accused the nurses of not doing enough to speed the deliveries, complaining that he was working for free, since his contract paid him by delivery. As the nurse in charge said, if they don’t like how they are paid, then they should renegotiate their contract with the hospital. Not all the obstetricians were like that of course. There were several female ones who were amazing to watch with their knowledge and expertise.

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  20. Michelle, neither Pfizer nor Moderna’s vaccines are manufactured in the lab cell lines that were originally derived from fetuses. There is no need, because the vaccines are manufactured by a sort of copying and pasting mechanism to reproduce the RNA strands, no cells required. Where the fetal cell lines come in is that they used them to test the vaccine. By the way, there are only two such lines regularly used, and onlyone cell line that has been confirmed as being derived from a voluntary abortion. The other one, know as HEK293 was derived from a fetus, but it is not known if the fetus died from voluntary abortion or not. Remember, in medical terms, a miscarriage is an abortion and would be so labelled on medical records.

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  21. Had I been given an option (could someone please cue the sobbing violins?), I would have opted for a nurse/midwife.

    But, having no option (I can’t quite hear the sobbing violins, could you turn them up, please?), I had to take whatever happened with whomever was on duty that day.

    We were told that no pain-relieving drugs would be given for a Navy birth (well, this was in the days of wooden boats and iron men and, obviously, women), so, if you wanted to be “pampered,” you would have to go out of the military medical system and pay for our own civilian birth in a real hospital with fireplaces, steak dinners and wine following delivery.

    As we had little money (Louder, violins, louder!), er, were too cheap, I had four natural births.

    (No, I’m not bitter. It’s all those other Navy wife memsahibs I know who got all that in Monterey. I was toughing it out with the Army hospital).

    (Okay, it was my idea. I’m too much a hair-shirt wearing martyr. And cheap.)

    The Army hospital was the worst (I’m looking at you, Mumsee, and sighing in sympathy).

    I had to make my own bed! The shower barely worked! (May I have a drum roll with those violins, please?)

    Twice, I met the doctor in the delivery room! (I laughed at that Army hospital. I thought he said his name was “Dr. Finite,” which seemed funny at the time, but I was crawling in an immodest hospital gown from a gurney onto a delivery table at the time and everything seemed funny).

    (Cymbal crash finale!)

    Four healthy children.

    Mom lived to tell the tale. 🙂

    See what I mean? Do you admire me yet? LOL

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Michelle, I never gave birth, but I determined by the time I was 20 or so that I wanted a nurse midwife.

    I always figured the birth stories were part of female bonding and was a bit sad I couldn’t participate. But I was present at the birth of one of my nephews, and so sometimes I tell parts of that story. I do think that the very scariest stories shouldn’t be told to a woman who’s in her third trimester, but having some idea that certain things can be dangerous is good. For example, my mom’s church lost a pastor’s wife to eclampsia . . . and it turns out she was the third such death for that doctor within a few years, maybe within a couple of years. It would have been helpful if she or someone close to her knew enough about pre-eclampsia to avoid that preventable death.

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  23. Michelle, all that sympathy is lost on me. First two babies in the town hospital where I was born. First was by the same doc who delivered me. Second was another doc, with a bit more modern philosophy. Both went very well.

    Third, we were at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, living off post. Middle River city hospital. Moved there about the eighth month. The good doc stopped by after to tell me there was a population problem and he would be happy to do what was needed to prevent further little ones. No thanks.

    Then off to Germany. Went the first few months to a doc in Fulda. Then we moved to Frankfurt about the eighth month. As we went over the due date in mid November and baby boy continued to grow, the doc wanted to do regular stress tests. I had no plan to drive into Frankfurt every day, then catching a train to the hospital every with three small ones, So I didn’t. They were talking about inducing but I was not very interested. Eventually, at ten and a half months, baby decided it was a good day for a birth. The night of Christmas day. We went to the clinic but because there was a blizzard, they decided to send us to the German hospital in Giessen. No Army hospitals for us.

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  24. The Wikipedia article on the Epoch Times begins this way:

    “The Epoch Times is a far-right[12] international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement, based in the United States.[17] The newspaper is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty (NTD) Television.[18] The Epoch Times has websites in 35 countries[19] but is blocked in mainland China.[19]

    The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party,[20] promotes far-right politicians in Europe,[3][5] and backs President Donald Trump in the U.S.;[21] a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group’s news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[18][24][25] The organization frequently promotes other Falun Gong affiliated groups, such as the performing arts company, Shen Yun.”

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  25. To add to what Roscuro wrote earlier (“The greatest danger does not come from the ideologies we recognise as dangerous . . .The greatest danger comes from those ideologies that appear to agree with our ideology. . .”):

    There are a couple Mormons who have been posting “inspirational/religious” posts on one or more of my town’s Facebook pages. On the surface, they seem Christian enough, not getting into anything that any orthodox believer would disagree with. But we know what will come to those who look deeper.

    Several times, I have made the point on my own FB posts, or in comments on friends’ posts, that we need to be even more skeptical and careful of posts that seem to support our view, or give us a visceral reaction. I see so many posts that tread on the ninth commandment without batting an eye or spread “information” which is exaggerated or outright false.

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  26. I think the Epoch Times promotes things such as QAnon for both religious and ideological reasons – the Falun Gong leader has said that aliens have taken over human’s minds – and also on the premise that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If a movement like QAnon also happens to attack Communism in its meandering conspiracy theories, then the Falun Gong woukd support it in order to add supporters to its propaganda campaign against Communist China. Also, there is a far right in Chinese culture too. Youngest in-law has a college friend from Singapore, whom Youngest, who has met him, once described to me as an Asian white supremacist.

    Kizzie, a dear Christian family friend once shared a testimony of a YouTube music star, calling this individual a wonderful witness. I was horrified, because I knew the YouTube star was a Mormon. In fact many of the popular YouTube group of musicians and entertainment are Mormon. It disturbs me when I look for Christmas music on there and the first thing that comes up is a Mormon group performing something. It always reminds me of Random’s observation that Mormonism is a cuckoo religion. They are laying their false teachings in our nest.

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  27. Kizzie I read that summation on Wikipedia as well. I do sometimes feel as though some do not trust the discernment and critical thinking of our brothers and sisters in Christ. They then take it upon themselves to “correct and educate” them. How many left leaning mainstream media outlets promote their own flavor of bias and propaganda?
    If I am ever in conversation with a friend and they speak something off kilter such as what can be found on the left and right, I would engage them in a discussion. I would not tell them they are stupid nor uninformed…I might suggest to them researching further into information I might be aware of but to attempt to belittle someone would be counterproductive and unkind

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  28. NancyJill – By sharing that information, I was in no way trying to belittle anyone, or tell them that they are stupid or uninformed. Not at all! I was only trying to share some information that some may not be aware of. If I were interested in a particular source that had something not-quite-right about it, I would want to be informed of that, so I could keep my eye out for it.

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  29. As for left-leaning media, I would assume that most of us here already are attuned to that. But as has been said earlier, it is the media that seems to fit our views that can hoodwink us.

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  30. Oh dear I didn’t mean to imply you did Kizzie. I am so sorry. I have appreciated instances when others have brought up something that I might need to research for myself. I do take exception when fellow believers come across sanctimonious and feel the need to suggest others have no discernment nor ability to think rightly.

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  31. I’m watching a “Hallmark-style” movie on UpTV tonight, Christmas theme and lead character just keeps reminding me of Kim. “Christmas in Vermont,” 2016

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  32. I subscribed to Epoch in full realization that it had a slant. I was just thankful to see an alternative slant. I felt like it was similar to fighting fire with fire. It was an alternative to all the absolutely negative with no positive about Trump that was all I ever heard/saw. I have not read much of it but have at times enjoyed their puzzles page. I do take news with a grain of salt and try to pull some truth out of it all instead of dissing a media source in totality. I like to watch things first hand to know what is going on instead of reading commentary. In Georgia I did watch many hours of testimony before the state senate in which later an inordinate amount of importance was placed on that one video. It was all the other testimony that left no doubt about the fraud committed. The video was like a decoy. I have thought of unsubscribing to Epoch as well as other reading materials since I prefer books now because my reading is more limited due to vision issues.

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  33. Hubby and I saw that movie, too. (It starred the actress who plays Baker on Blue Bloods, right? Abigail Hawk, I think her name is?)

    Night-night, everyone!

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  34. Oh, you’re right Kizzie! And I said before that character reminded me of Kim, too!

    I knew she looked familiar, just couldn’t place her. How funny .

    She’s “Kim” to me, I guess.

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  35. I’ve been accused of being biased — falsely, but there you go. Everyone thinks all journalists are biased these days. It’s frustrating, even maddening, but what can you do.

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  36. I have felt sadly about how we sound so down on media when I consider it is your honest profession, DJ. I think you are on such a pedestal with most here, DJ, that we never even think of our comments in any fashion directed toward you.

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