This pastor expresses what many have felt, even if he is a little harsh about it. (I’m not on X, but this was shared with me.)
This is Pastor Loran Livingston. He has some thoughts about Christian Nationalism and the new Trump Bible. Do you agree with what this pastor is saying here?
He is very forceful in making his point. Likr an old time preacher.
As I said before, my MIL gave us a big family Bible with all those documents in it and I did not keep it. It was not an old family Bible with family history in it.
I still can compartmentalize the marketing strategy to sell Bibles from any angle and not use that as an excuse to not vote. People will look for any excuse to justify doing what they do or do not do.
Meanwhile GOP AGs twiddle their thumbs and allow DOJ/FBI to continue to violate the Constitutional rights of their J6 constituents.
Can’t be mad at these Dem state prosecutors, just envious at their understanding and ability about how to use political power. https://t.co/ITqWdF5XmU
Nice to see he manages some righteous indignation. Too bad it’s for the brethren and not the people ruining this country. The president just to name one, who calls himself a Christian. They would silence him in a heartbeat, yet he’s too stupid to see it. That’s a shame.
And the Trump Bible, or as normal people call it, The Bible again. That’s laughable.
Not only is McCaul one of the RINOs most responsible for selling out Americans and sending billions more to Ukraine, he was lining his pockets like a crook at the same time. I don't care what party you're in, this type of blatantly corrupt behavior shouldn't be allowed! pic.twitter.com/XqvTgULvjp
Janice – I don’t think that he is against voting, but against putting more emphasis on and trust in that than we should,
A friend of mine from church shared something on Facebook that made me cringe. The wording starting off with “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord” and then added “Say the Pledge of Allegiance”, and one or two other patriotic-type of things, all included with the scripture it started out with, as if it all went together.
Another Christian friend, from my former church, shared on Facebook a photo (AI-created) of a huge Bible with the words “Holy Bible” on the spine, but on the whole front of the Bible was an American flag. She got several “likes” on that from other believers.
Oh the horror, learning the country’s history and the Bible, you know, like the “Trump Bible” does. Better citizens too? Oh the humanity…..
But i guess some would call that Christian Nationalism, and say it’s a bad thing, right?
You can be a Christian and an American. It’s actually OK and works out better for both groups.
According to a new study published in the Educational Psychology Review, private schools, and specifically religious schools, are more effective conductors of civic knowledge and behaviors than public schools.
AJ – Teaching civics is a great thing, but it doesn’t need to be mixed up with matters of faith.
Some Christians, even some from this blog, disagree with having the American flag on the podium (or whatever you call it) along with the Christian flag. Jesus died for people throughout the world, in every nation.
I have also read a very convincing argument for why Christians should not say the Pledge of Allegiance, and that is because we owe allegiance only to God, period. (There’s more to the argument than that, but the main point is all I can recall about it right now.)
Actually (@3:42), correction (“righteous indignation” if needed) should be directed first within the church and believers.
The world will do what the world does; believers are called to higher standards and God cares first about his church, that it should be kept pure/faithful to Scripture. So yeah, in that sense the sermon was quite appropriate.
And yes, it is a problem to intermix loyalty to God with one’s country. “Christians are a holy nation called the church … we are sojourners and exiles in every other nation on the planet, including America.” – In that sense, every nation is a foreign land — John Piper
It’s been said that our country’s tradition of separation of church and state primarily benefits keeping the church pure, so it does not become entangled.
1 Peter 4:17 says, “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?”
God is more concerned about the behavior of believers – who should know better – than about the behavior of unbelievers.
He lost me when he started ranting about the Trump Bible.
Ir showed his ignorance. It wasn’t a Bible from Trump, or put out by Trump, but some group who has a marketing deal to use Trump’s name.
He should be ranting about Lee Greenwood, who had way more to do with it, and is the one who included the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
His Never Trump TDS is showing. He complains about bringing politics into the church, and then proceeded to do so. I can’t take him seriously.
Again, you can be a good Christian who loves the Lord first and foremost, and be a good engaged and involved American. It doesn’t have to be either or. God first, family second, country third.
This is a legitimate question: If Trump didn’t have an affair with “Stormy Daniels”, then why was she paid hush money?
(Yes, I know that she is now saying that no affair occurred, but that could be a form of the “hush” she was supposedly paid for. If people can lie about something happening, they can also lie about something not happening.)
To add to what DJ said, it is also just the casual way that Bible has been referred to, like people who refer to “Obamacare”. More people are going to know what the “Trump Bible” is than by calling it by its actual name.
My mom remembered a teacher — way back in the dark ages in small-town Iowa — who once challenged the class with the question “Our country, right or wrong?”
She never forgot that and it did give her pause (as it should all of us).
I long ago gave up adoration of political figures (the kind I see around Trump, to be honest), no matter how wonderful they sounded or seemed. I’ve liked candidates, I’ve supported candidates, I’ve voted for candidates (even cautiously enthusiastically here or there).
But going all in for one? That’s not something I’ve done probably since college.
They are all flawed – some more than others — and are prone to being corrupted by all manner of temptations. Voters who become so enamored of them, sure they can do no wrong, is a potential pitfall for all of us.
I liked some of the things Trump did. But I do not trust his character based on several years of evidence and information.
My pastor also spoke out against bringing politics into the church. And that was in reference to the Trump endorsement of the Bible, though he didn’t mentionTrump by name.
I’ve said before that I didn’t particularly like it, kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard. But it’s not like it was a “Trump edition” complete with study notes ( and perhaps a voting scorecard). And the family Bible has traditionally had other documents such as marriage licenses or death certificates or other things important to the particular family. I have notes and poetry tacked into mine. I have one interleaved Bible that I have room to make extensive notes in, or cut and paste pictures in or maps, etc. (Bible journaling is actually a thing. Look it up on YouTube.)
This is an interesting subject,but I’m at work and can’t say more.
Valid points, but I do also write study notes in my personal Bibles, understanding they’re fallible, the Scriptures aren’t.
The polished pitch to sell a Bible that is purposely (for some purpose anyway) bound intentionally together with national/political documents is disturbing to many of us. It equates the content.
I wonder how many people actually read the big family Bibles. (Not referring to you, Debra.) My mother-in-law had her family Bible, which is now in my possession, with the births and deaths written in. It’s a HUGE book, and because they were Catholic, they were not allowed to read it. :-(
And, I’ve posted this John Piper quote before, but it bears keeping in mind for those of us who have struggled in the past few presidential voting cycles:
At times, it happens in a fallen world that a vote for any proposed candidate is so offensive, so morally compromised, so misleading that it may be a matter of greater integrity, more faithful obedience to Christ, and a clearer witness to truth if we do not vote for any of the proposed candidates. …
Life is not simple. It is inevitable that Christians will disagree on strategies for how to do the most good with gospel words, good deeds, and Christian example-setting. We must be slow to judge the moral strategies of other well-meaning people.
Just one more thought. If you believe, as I do, that in principle, voting is a great gift and privilege in our society, and you want to uphold that privilege, it is almost always possible to vote by writing in the candidate you think is worthy, though not on the ballot. In that way, you may uphold the precious gift of democratic self-government while avoiding the ruinous effects of supporting unworthy candidates.
Kizzie, so is she lying now or was she lying then. To be honest I haven’t kept up with any of the trials and don’t intend to because I don’t believe in the selective prosecutions and have zero confidence that justice is likely or possible in those conditions.
And because of that, if I decided to vote for Trump, I would do so even if he were convicted and sitting behind bars in an orange jumpsuit.
Some ladies do accuse wealthy men of things . . .not to imply Stotmie would do anything for money. We will probably never know all the details. And really, who wants to know?
On the subject of the family Bible, i had asked my maternal grandmother if I could have the big family Bible. It had all the records in beautiful writing. It was a wonderfully illustrated Bible. My brother got it and I have not seen it since. My grandmothrr said I could have it, but brother thought I was not beong truthful. I had pressed four lesf clovers I found when visiting my grandmother’s home in that Bible. But I decided I would not fight over a Bible. Being given the big new fanily Bible by my MIL with documents of a political nature just was not the same.
Janice – I’m sorry your brother took the family Bible promised to you. Stories like yours are a good lesson for us to make sure that we write these things down if we want to leave something special to a particular person. That’s something that I have been thinking of lately.
BTW, in general, who slept with (or didn’t sleep with) whom would be nobody’s business, but in this case, it is related to the court case.
Debra – As I understand it, she repudiated that paper pretty quickly and quite often. In her book, she wrote that she signed it out of fear, but signed it in a way she doesn’t usually sign things, to indicate that it wasn’t legitimate.
It seems relevant to the supposed hush money. But my comment was also in response to AJ’s mentioning a few times that she repudiated the story of the affair. She did, but then she repudiated the repudiation.
Wandering Views 
This pastor expresses what many have felt, even if he is a little harsh about it. (I’m not on X, but this was shared with me.)
LikeLike
He is very forceful in making his point. Likr an old time preacher.
As I said before, my MIL gave us a big family Bible with all those documents in it and I did not keep it. It was not an old family Bible with family history in it.
I still can compartmentalize the marketing strategy to sell Bibles from any angle and not use that as an excuse to not vote. People will look for any excuse to justify doing what they do or do not do.
Keep praying!
LikeLiked by 1 person
He’s on fire 🙂 Not my favorite preaching style, but he makes his point. I will be voting, one way or another.
LikeLike
The R party is ruled by weak men.
LikeLike
Nice to see he manages some righteous indignation. Too bad it’s for the brethren and not the people ruining this country. The president just to name one, who calls himself a Christian. They would silence him in a heartbeat, yet he’s too stupid to see it. That’s a shame.
And the Trump Bible, or as normal people call it, The Bible again. That’s laughable.
LikeLike
Make that weak and corrupt men…
LikeLike
Janice – I don’t think that he is against voting, but against putting more emphasis on and trust in that than we should,
A friend of mine from church shared something on Facebook that made me cringe. The wording starting off with “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord” and then added “Say the Pledge of Allegiance”, and one or two other patriotic-type of things, all included with the scripture it started out with, as if it all went together.
Another Christian friend, from my former church, shared on Facebook a photo (AI-created) of a huge Bible with the words “Holy Bible” on the spine, but on the whole front of the Bible was an American flag. She got several “likes” on that from other believers.
This kind of thing is quite concerning to see.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh the horror, learning the country’s history and the Bible, you know, like the “Trump Bible” does. Better citizens too? Oh the humanity…..
But i guess some would call that Christian Nationalism, and say it’s a bad thing, right?
You can be a Christian and an American. It’s actually OK and works out better for both groups.
LikeLike
AJ – Teaching civics is a great thing, but it doesn’t need to be mixed up with matters of faith.
Some Christians, even some from this blog, disagree with having the American flag on the podium (or whatever you call it) along with the Christian flag. Jesus died for people throughout the world, in every nation.
I have also read a very convincing argument for why Christians should not say the Pledge of Allegiance, and that is because we owe allegiance only to God, period. (There’s more to the argument than that, but the main point is all I can recall about it right now.)
LikeLike
Actually (@3:42), correction (“righteous indignation” if needed) should be directed first within the church and believers.
The world will do what the world does; believers are called to higher standards and God cares first about his church, that it should be kept pure/faithful to Scripture. So yeah, in that sense the sermon was quite appropriate.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And yes, it is a problem to intermix loyalty to God with one’s country. “Christians are a holy nation called the church … we are sojourners and exiles in every other nation on the planet, including America.” – In that sense, every nation is a foreign land — John Piper
LikeLiked by 1 person
It’s been said that our country’s tradition of separation of church and state primarily benefits keeping the church pure, so it does not become entangled.
LikeLiked by 1 person
1 Peter 4:17 says, “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?”
God is more concerned about the behavior of believers – who should know better – than about the behavior of unbelievers.
LikeLike
I’m pretty sure that Paul wrote something similar, but it is not readily coming to mind.
LikeLike
He lost me when he started ranting about the Trump Bible.
Ir showed his ignorance. It wasn’t a Bible from Trump, or put out by Trump, but some group who has a marketing deal to use Trump’s name.
He should be ranting about Lee Greenwood, who had way more to do with it, and is the one who included the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
His Never Trump TDS is showing. He complains about bringing politics into the church, and then proceeded to do so. I can’t take him seriously.
Again, you can be a good Christian who loves the Lord first and foremost, and be a good engaged and involved American. It doesn’t have to be either or. God first, family second, country third.
LikeLiked by 3 people
It was a Bible promoted by Trump.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This is a legitimate question: If Trump didn’t have an affair with “Stormy Daniels”, then why was she paid hush money?
(Yes, I know that she is now saying that no affair occurred, but that could be a form of the “hush” she was supposedly paid for. If people can lie about something happening, they can also lie about something not happening.)
LikeLike
To add to what DJ said, it is also just the casual way that Bible has been referred to, like people who refer to “Obamacare”. More people are going to know what the “Trump Bible” is than by calling it by its actual name.
LikeLike
Is it possible to be “Trump, right or wrong?”
My mom remembered a teacher — way back in the dark ages in small-town Iowa — who once challenged the class with the question “Our country, right or wrong?”
She never forgot that and it did give her pause (as it should all of us).
I long ago gave up adoration of political figures (the kind I see around Trump, to be honest), no matter how wonderful they sounded or seemed. I’ve liked candidates, I’ve supported candidates, I’ve voted for candidates (even cautiously enthusiastically here or there).
But going all in for one? That’s not something I’ve done probably since college.
They are all flawed – some more than others — and are prone to being corrupted by all manner of temptations. Voters who become so enamored of them, sure they can do no wrong, is a potential pitfall for all of us.
I liked some of the things Trump did. But I do not trust his character based on several years of evidence and information.
LikeLike
My pastor also spoke out against bringing politics into the church. And that was in reference to the Trump endorsement of the Bible, though he didn’t mentionTrump by name.
I’ve said before that I didn’t particularly like it, kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard. But it’s not like it was a “Trump edition” complete with study notes ( and perhaps a voting scorecard). And the family Bible has traditionally had other documents such as marriage licenses or death certificates or other things important to the particular family. I have notes and poetry tacked into mine. I have one interleaved Bible that I have room to make extensive notes in, or cut and paste pictures in or maps, etc. (Bible journaling is actually a thing. Look it up on YouTube.)
This is an interesting subject,but I’m at work and can’t say more.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Valid points, but I do also write study notes in my personal Bibles, understanding they’re fallible, the Scriptures aren’t.
The polished pitch to sell a Bible that is purposely (for some purpose anyway) bound intentionally together with national/political documents is disturbing to many of us. It equates the content.
LikeLike
When I start hawking “DJ’s Bible” on TV, please, just stop me.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I wonder how many people actually read the big family Bibles. (Not referring to you, Debra.) My mother-in-law had her family Bible, which is now in my possession, with the births and deaths written in. It’s a HUGE book, and because they were Catholic, they were not allowed to read it. :-(
LikeLiked by 1 person
It turns out that Stormy Daniels has said that she was forced to sign that paper claiming that an affair never happened.
https://perma.cc/39NT-7CGU
LikeLike
And, I’ve posted this John Piper quote before, but it bears keeping in mind for those of us who have struggled in the past few presidential voting cycles:
At times, it happens in a fallen world that a vote for any proposed candidate is so offensive, so morally compromised, so misleading that it may be a matter of greater integrity, more faithful obedience to Christ, and a clearer witness to truth if we do not vote for any of the proposed candidates. …
Life is not simple. It is inevitable that Christians will disagree on strategies for how to do the most good with gospel words, good deeds, and Christian example-setting. We must be slow to judge the moral strategies of other well-meaning people.
Just one more thought. If you believe, as I do, that in principle, voting is a great gift and privilege in our society, and you want to uphold that privilege, it is almost always possible to vote by writing in the candidate you think is worthy, though not on the ballot. In that way, you may uphold the precious gift of democratic self-government while avoiding the ruinous effects of supporting unworthy candidates.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m (by far) not the only Christian I know who has found herself in this predicament in this current era we are seeing in the U.S.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Kizzie, so is she lying now or was she lying then. To be honest I haven’t kept up with any of the trials and don’t intend to because I don’t believe in the selective prosecutions and have zero confidence that justice is likely or possible in those conditions.
And because of that, if I decided to vote for Trump, I would do so even if he were convicted and sitting behind bars in an orange jumpsuit.
LikeLike
Some ladies do accuse wealthy men of things . . .not to imply Stotmie would do anything for money. We will probably never know all the details. And really, who wants to know?
On the subject of the family Bible, i had asked my maternal grandmother if I could have the big family Bible. It had all the records in beautiful writing. It was a wonderfully illustrated Bible. My brother got it and I have not seen it since. My grandmothrr said I could have it, but brother thought I was not beong truthful. I had pressed four lesf clovers I found when visiting my grandmother’s home in that Bible. But I decided I would not fight over a Bible. Being given the big new fanily Bible by my MIL with documents of a political nature just was not the same.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Janice – I’m sorry your brother took the family Bible promised to you. Stories like yours are a good lesson for us to make sure that we write these things down if we want to leave something special to a particular person. That’s something that I have been thinking of lately.
BTW, in general, who slept with (or didn’t sleep with) whom would be nobody’s business, but in this case, it is related to the court case.
LikeLike
Debra – As I understand it, she repudiated that paper pretty quickly and quite often. In her book, she wrote that she signed it out of fear, but signed it in a way she doesn’t usually sign things, to indicate that it wasn’t legitimate.
LikeLike
And again, this raises the question of why would she be paid off if nothing happened?
LikeLike
whether or not they had an affair is irrelevant to the case. God knows.
mumsee
LikeLike
It seems relevant to the supposed hush money. But my comment was also in response to AJ’s mentioning a few times that she repudiated the story of the affair. She did, but then she repudiated the repudiation.
LikeLike
I think the question is if she was paid by Trump to sign a non disclosure, not why. But I don’t know. Seems kind of ridiculous to me.
mumsee
LikeLiked by 1 person