85 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 4-11-17

  1. Strange stuff on yesterday’s thread about a previous governor who was a Baptist.
    South Carolina’s previous governor is Secretary to the UN.
    You never know?

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  2. Morning ya’ll….still dark as pitch outside…first cup of coffee down…second one coming up….
    Just watched the video of the doctor being pulled off the United flight…um I’m flying on United next week to see my Mom…are they really that barbaric?? I’ve flown United in the past (not my preferred airline but they were they only airline to accommodate my needed flight time) I don’t recall problems with them….

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  3. Flicker!

    NancyJill, my hunch is the airline will be on their very best behavior today . . . though that letter from the CEO didn’t look all that encouraging that they “get it” yet.

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  4. The offered ticket credits to those who would give up their seat. No one took them up on it. They needed to seat 4 employees of the airline to get them to Kansas City. The doctor told them he needed to see patients the next morning. They could have kept upping the credits if it was that important until someone took them up on it. I read comments last night from people who had been held at the gate on United Flights for up to an hour before someone agreed to give up their seat.
    What happened to the passenger is unfortunate, but ultimately it is the airlines responsibility to get people to and from their destination in a timely, courteous manner. The statement from the airline executive was beyond stupid. I am sure that today it is still a public relations nightmare.
    It was the airline’s responsibility to plan better in getting their employees from port to port.
    When the average person flies they have plans on either side. I say this as someone who spent 9 hours stuck in an airport while everything fell apart on the other end. Most employers won’t understand that “I voluntarily gave up my seat”. They just understand that you didn’t show up as expected and ask, “Why did YOU give up your seat?”
    I obviously don’t know all the details, nor do I have any answers. I have to fly Delta because I don’t have a choice unless I am willing to drive to New Orleans

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  5. So Cheryl and DJ, please explain to me what is wrong with the guy who used to be on the radio joining the Orthodox Church? I read the article, but didn’t understand.

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  6. If you have a ticket on the airline, and you’ve been seated, and you have something important to which you have to return, you should have a fair reason to expect you can stay on the plane. Boosting the price they offered until someone took them up on it would cost a whole lot less than this is going to cost them!

    I was once on a plane that was overbooked and they offered (if my memory is correct) $350 plus a ticket anywhere Southwest flew. I don’t remember whether the offer included rebooking in addition to those offers, but I think it did and it was clearly a good deal and I was tempted to take them up on it. Someone else did, fairly quickly, so I didn’t have much time to decide anyway. If I’d been taking a day off work when I returned, I would have responded immediately, but at work the next day my boss said oh, I should have taken it, and then I wished I had! (If I’d worked there longer, I likely would have, but I’d been there less than a year.)

    But imagine you are on that plane because your father is dying and he only has hours, or your mother’s funeral is this afternoon, or your daughter is giving birth, or even you are a match as a kidney donor for your brother in another state, or any number of really important reasons that getting there tomorrow is not soon enough. (My brother flew to California on Christmas Day when he was getting married on the 28th . . . but unfortunately they had snow in Georgia on Christmas Day, and he had trouble getting a ticket and had to fly around the country for about 12 hours just to get there somehow.) Or maybe you have jury duty, or an EKG, or something else you can’t readily reschedule. Now, if all planes are grounded, you can’t get there anyway, and it’s one of the sad realities of life. But if you’re a doctor who has patients the next day (as was apparently the case here), then you probably aren’t going to give up your seat for any amount of money, but someone on that plane will.

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  7. Re Kim’s 9:20: The writer of the blog didn’t like his joining the Orthodox Church because the writer was Roman Catholic. 🙂 I don’t have a huge issue with it, I just thought it was interesting as he’s been such a long-standing public voice for popular evangelicalism. Of course, I’d prefer he’d done the right thing become Reformed Presbyterian, but … 🙂

    Cheryl probably has more to say about the Orthodox Church. I knew someone who became Orthodox years ago (following years as a Baptist, non-denominational evangelical, Quaker and Roman Catholic). After her stint with the Orthodox church, she wound up joining a cult of some kind that focused its beliefs on space aliens, so there you go. She was, as we say, searching but never finding …

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  8. I haven’t seen the video clip of the passenger being, um, escorted off the plane but have heard a lot about it.

    I sent myself to bed early last night as I was so cranky. I feel better this morning.

    I’m under the gun today to find a daily story + others for the rest of the week, especially since I’m taking Friday off.

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  9. Kim, here is a different link that takes it a little too far (I don’t think that becoming Orthodox is renouncing the faith) but still explains it decently: http://pulpitandpen.org/2017/04/10/the-bible-answer-man-hank-hanegraaff-leaves-the-christian-faith/

    I don’t have time for details–super-busy week–but when I used to hear him on the radio, he had two different things where he said that didn’t actually happen about things the Bible records: one was Satan appearing as a snake to Eve and one was the veil of the temple being torn and dead people testifying to Jesus’ resurrection. (For that one, he said there were no historical records, and there would be historical records–as though Scripture itself isn’t a reliable historical record.) Both of these incidents are written in Scripture as actual history, not poetry, so hearing him I thought he doesn’t take Scripture seriously enough to be the “Bible” Answer Man. And hearing him convert to Orthodoxy makes sense in that setting, because they do have a lower view of Scripture, setting tradition against Scripture and tradition wins. Icons and speaking to the dead are two examples I can think of offhand where their manmade traditions are actually contrary to what Scripture commands.

    But I have enough to do this week without getting into that anymore.

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  10. I occasionally would hear Hanegraaff on the radio but was not a regular listener — I listened to the guy who preceded him on that same show, actually, but can’t remember his name now.

    When my friend joined a Greek Orthodox church in our area, she was over the rainbow (as she was with every church or religion she joined, now that I think about it) and wanted me to come to her baptism (I couldn’t make it). She was hoping to join the convent once her children were raised, but made a detour into a Hollywood cult before that could happen.

    The issues struck me as similar to the ones I have with Roman Catholicism — icons (even more emphasis on this in the Orthodox church, it seemed) and, as Cheryl mentioned, the elevating of tradition as equal to Scripture.

    That said, I understand the allure — especially in our age of “low-church” evangelicalism in which the practice of Christianity and Sunday worship in many churches has become so casual and indistinguishable from the world.

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  11. I don’t share your concern about the Orthodox Church. If the use of incense and icons focuses their faith better on Jesus, what difference does it make?

    But then, I see many denominations more as worship styles.

    If a person can worship better in one denomination– as long as it is Bible centric and believes in the inerrancy of scripture– we have no business judging the sincerity of their faith.

    Do you see the fruit of the spirit in their lives? That’s of more importance to me.

    If you are genuinely concerned about their faith, pray the Holy Spirit provides conviction and direction. It’s his job anyway, not ours.

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  12. Michelle, the quick answer (not meant to be snarky) is that the Israelites apparently thought the golden calf would be a good aid to worship, too. We are told in Hebrews 12:28-29: “Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire.”

    There is legitimate concern that icons break a few of the Ten Commandments. We are to contend for the faith graciously and gently, but we are to contend for the faith.

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  13. You’re right, it is the doctrinal issues that should be central. I consider both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy as Christian, but there are distinct differences in doctrine that are central to the discussion.

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  14. In our age of “evangelicalism” I can very easily see the appeal of Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and liturgical churches. Anyone can declare themselves clergy (you can be ordained over the internet) and start a church. I prefer a church, whether I agree with them on everything or not, that has a doctrine of stated beliefs.
    Due to my background in a legalistic “Independent Methodist” church school I don’t trust non-denominational churches that can make it up as they go along.
    In all fairness I must disclose that I am currently attending the First Baptist church lately. Guy and his family go to “my” home church now and I have to put up with him 5 and sometimes 6 days a week and I cannot sit in church with him on Sunday too.
    (The Baptist church and I am sure most of yours fit my criteria of having a stated doctrine)

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  15. Donna, a story about waiting until the last minute to do taxes and who will do them (and alternatives) might work. Interview someone who went to jail for not doing their taxes?

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  16. Kim, I understand that a lot of theologians believe that the Israelities meant to represent Yahweh with that golden calf. The other nations had images for their deities, and they wanted one too, just as they later would want a king like the other nations had. God said no, He is a God who is worshiped without images. He did designate some visual aspects as part of worship, but He never gave freedom just to make some up.

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  17. I would listen to Hanegraaff while the girls were having their piano lessons….first up was
    Truth for Life with Alistair Begg…following was the Bible Answer Man. His show was interesting as callers would call in asking questions…the dialogue proved interesting most times…..(I didn’t listen to the entire show…the girl’s lessons would be over half way through the show…when the girls hopped in the car, the station was switched over to Focus on the Family’s Adventures in Odyssey) 🙂

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  18. From the link in 11:18, the first paragraph:

    “Holy icons serve a number of purposes. (1) They enhance the beauty of a church. (2) They instruct us in matters pertaining to the Christian faith. (3) They remind us of this faith. (4) They lift us up to the prototypes which they symbolize, to a higher level of thought and feeling. (5) They arouse us to imitate the virtues of the holy personages depicted on them. (6) They help to transform us, to sanctify us. (7) They serve as a means of worship and veneration.”

    Most of those we are either specifically given something else to do that or they come dangerously close to something we are actually forbidden (#5 isn’t an appropriate part of worship, for example, though it can be a very appropriate part of godly living). Number 6 is kinda scary, to tell the truth, and that and #7 I’d put in there with at least borderline on breaking more than one of the Ten Commandments.

    All right, I have work to do, and so I now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation . . .

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  19. If you look over to the right where all the blog photos are you will see a man in a hat holding a fish.
    That same man is on that same beach today. IT’S NOT FAIR!!!!! He sent a photo and said the French version of the Blue Angels are practicing and doing fly overs. I want to run away from home too, sit on the beach, and read a book. He can fish all he wants….

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  20. Can’t beat Alistair Begg.

    Janice, I remember being assigned to do a tax story a few years ago on April 15 — interviewing people hauling in all their “stuff” in large paper bags going into H&R block. 🙂 But that’s a possibility (although this is still probably considered “early” for many of those people; it’s only the 11th).

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  21. I hear a lawnmower in the background, and a dove cooing in our yard. Strange dissonance.

    It’s high season for allergies. I think I need to drink extra aloe juice.

    My brother is around sixty, and working in the tax business is his first office job. I think the most difficult thing for him has been going out to get food for the group. He does not use GPS. Last week he was going to a new, to us, BBQ place and he called for directions. The gal on the phone told him, ” We are right here.” Then he asked for more specific directions and she said, “We are by the tattoo parlor.” Sometimes it is embarrassing to live in the South. But then we get calls from people who have just moved here from other locations. We give good directions to get to the office, and then they still can’t find it. Makes me feel a tad bit better.

    Yesterday as the phone rang off the hook and clients were waiting for their finished tax packages, a man showed up with a delivery of food to the office that we did not order. He had picked up our suite number as the street address. I had to send him away. I could not believe that I had that on top of all the other I had going on.

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  22. Janice when customers call for directions to our shoppe, I can say “behind Burger King, behind The Egg and I or I can say “just two doors down from La Tartine (the French restaurant)….I prefer the latter…increases the perception of “upscale’ doesn’t it?!! 🙂

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  23. Roscuro, your bus stories yesterday were interesting, particularly the one about the driver who adjusted his mirror to keep an eye on the Muslim woman. Is it possible he was doing it, not because he was suspicious of her, but to be sure nobody around her hassled her?

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  24. Nancyjill, you gave me an idea, Le Tax Shoppe, for upscale tax work! Alternatively, La Petite Shoppe of Horrors. Not sure, but I think the word tax must qualify as masculine.

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  25. Kim, Anyone can declare themselves clergy (you can be ordained over the internet) and start a church. Indeed. I was just reading about this ‘church’: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-05/what-would-jesus-disrupt. Now that’s taking the entrepreneurial spirit way too far. It reminds me of II Peter’s warnings about false prophets, “through covetousness will they with feigned words make merchandise of you” (II Peter 2:3).

    I’ve witnessed the phenomenon of people turning to the more ceremonial churches, sick of the chaos which exists in the less structured churches. I’ve mentioned my cousin and family who became Catholic. I’ve learned to pray, not for their conversion, since I’ve reason to believe that they are trusting Christ for salvation, but that they would focus on Christ and not be distracted by non essentials. I understand the draw, as I’ve felt it. I dislike the liturgical tourism going on in my city church, but I keep going because I realize that the Christian life is messy, and I love the fellow believers there. I hate the atmosphere of insularity, which is breeding a willingness to believe in conspiracy theories, that exists in my tiny family church, but I still am a member because that is where the Lord led me to become a member and I still care about the people, although they are hard to love at times. There is no such thing as a perfect church. The churches of Paul’s day teemed with problems, yet he patiently worked through them.

    Throughout the dark ages and then into the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, the liturgical churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, & Assyrian) wielded greater and greater weapons in an effort to keep the unity, by force if necessary, eventually, for the Catholic and Orthodox in particular, harnessing even the state to their will (though the state often proved fractious). In doing so, they sadly left their first love; yet I’ve reason to think that there are still Christians within each of them. When those churches are in ascendancy in a nation, there will be less Christians actually in the church; but where they are a suffering minority, there will be more. I do not agree with all of their practices, but they all staunchly affirm the same basic confession. As Christ replied to his disciples, when they said they had shut down a man doing miracles in Jesus’ name because he wasn’t one of their circle:

    “Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.”(Mark 9:39-41).

    Paul later says that, “that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” (I Corinthians 12:3). It is of much greater concern to me when Christians claim spiritual affinity with religions such as Mormonism, which deny the Trinity and the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity, simply because Mormons share the same conservative values. Christ is the mark of the true Christian, not virtue or good works or a certain style of worship.

    As for the question of icons, I would agree that it is an element of weakness, but in my experience with watching my Catholic cousins, what outsiders think Catholics do isn’t necessarily what Catholics do, and I would imagine the same applies to the Orthodox. My cousins have a crucifix on their wall, but I’ve yet to even see them cross themselves in front of it, while their devotions took place around the table, with no objects of veneration.

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  26. Since Kevin brought it up . . . I, too, caught up on yesterday’s thread this morning. None of us wants to think we are prejudiced, however, all of those actions that you all described yesterday (and that I, too, do), are considered prejudicial acts by those on whom they are perpetrated. If you lock your door when a black man approaches your car, you ARE prejudice because you are pre-judging him. It seems to me that the issue of prejudice will never, ever be solved because it really boils down to our knowledge and experience influencing how we behave or react in certain situations. I think there is a fine line between prejudice and caution, and the latter will always be mistaken for the former.

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  27. The airline acted stupidly, but so did the passenger. But the difference is the passenger is gonna get paid, whereas the airline will suffer for the PR hit and loss of sales.

    It’s also real easy to fix. The airline knows who bought tickets and when they bought them. In the future simply look at the list, and if 3 need to be bumped, it’s the last 3 to buy tickets. Post the policy, first come, first served, and it’s fair to everyone.

    This isn’t rocket science. Sheesh.

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  28. Janice, last November, I got a letter from the IRS in Texas.
    It said, “You did not file a tax return for 2015.”
    I looked on my computer and found that my electronic file did not go. I had the state tax filed by USPS.
    So. I printed a copy and sent it.
    They sent my refund with interest incurred since April 15.

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  29. Kevin, there is a significant population of Muslims living in the city (there is a significant population of a number of national, ethnic, and religious origins), so that the conservative Muslim garb is a common sight. I see Muslims get on and off the buses all the time – the ones I can tell are Muslims that is, since it is hard to tell whether the guy talking on the phone in an East Indian dialect is speaking Urdu from Pakistan or Hindi from India (they are effectively the same language with dialect differences), or whether the Middle Easterner speaking a Semitic language is Israeli or Arab; and not every Muslim woman wears a head covering. That is why I thought I was imagining things when the driver first adjusted the mirror. I sometimes pick up on more subtle body language than I can readily explain, and it was something in the driver’s manner which triggered me to wonder Then I dismissed the matter as silly, until the second readjustment happened. I don’t think he was acting to protect her, as she was sitting right at the front of the bus, which is reserved for people with walkers and baby carriages; but directly behind the driver’s box, which is backed by a solid wall, so he couldn’t see her (there is a system of mirrors inside the bus to allow the driver to see the back door/doors without turning around, and it was the one at the front that he adjusted). If anyone had started harassing her – which is something I’ve never witnessed – what they said would have been clearly audible to the driver. That prejudice and racism are not dead, I witnessed for myself one day as I waited in the library, listening to two different young men (European ethnicity) within two different groups make statements which even I found offensive – and I’m accustomed to the conversation of working class men who often make surface judgements about immigrants. It has been observed that radical Muslims, such as those recruited to ISIS, are young men raised in the West who are discontented in spite of their relative prosperity. Well, I see increasing evidence that there is a parallel group of young men of European ethnic origin who are radicalizing into white supremacists. The perpetrator of the Quebec City mosque shooting, in which six Muslim men were killed, was a young, white, French-Canadian man who had liked certain right wing groups on Facebook.

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  30. AJ, simply bumping the last three might be fair . . . but it does mean you’re far more likely to be bumping those who (1) are paying through the nose for a ticket and (2) are flying because of an emergency (death or pending death or other emergency).

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  31. We got bumped flying from Los Angeles to Okinawa with four children so some Marines could make it to their destination. We were well paid and caught a later flight soon after. We had a hotel and dinner paid for in Tokyo but were too tired to eat and slept through the visit. But we had some flexibility. Nobody dragged us off. They just offered enough to make it worth our while to wait in an airport longer with four small children.

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  32. Kim, her mom definitely came around and had some deep conversations with Chan (youth pastor who was taking care of Kaitlyn). The service is going to be a worship service with lots of singing and an evangelical message. Praying the family’s hearts and minds will be open.

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  33. Kare – This may not seem an important concern to some, but I was wondering if her dog has gone to a good home.

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  34. DJ – I was concerned about Pastor Billy being so young (28 when he became our pastor), but he has a depth & maturity to him that have pleasantly surprised us. He also had five or six years of other ministry under his belt before he came to us.

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  35. Roscuro writes, “Well, I see increasing evidence that there is a parallel group of young men of European ethnic origin who are radicalizing into white supremacists.” That is an interesting, & I believe sadly true, observation.

    On an unrelated, but kind of related note (that makes sense, huh? 🙂 ), it seems there is more polarizing going on between left & right every day.

    On the left, there are “lectures” about all the ways some are offending certain others, & sharing lists of what not to say to various groups of people, & telling white people not to wear hoop earrings or not to have dreadlocks or what Halloween costumes they shouldn’t wear.

    On the other side, something that I am tired of seeing is those on the right making fun of “snowflakes”. Initially, the word seemed to be used for very liberal college students who needed safe spaces to escape speakers they disagreed with. But now, many are using it for any liberal who seems to exhibit any sensitivity towards anything.

    Many of the things that some conservatives are saying, or commenting, or the memes they share on social media, are purposely offensive, with an attitude (expressed) that they don’t care if anyone is offended. It seems to be a badge of honor among some to not care if people are offended by their words or whatnot.

    At the same time, there are things that offend these (typically) far-right conservatives, & they certainly do express their offense. A while back, I saw something that listed ways in which conservatives were “the real snowflakes”, & it made a good point.

    Each side will say they have good reason to be offended by what offends them, but not acknowledge the same for the other side. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all tried to be as sensitive, polite, & respectful as we can be, & if we could also all give grace to those who slip up?

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  36. A liberal friend on Facebook lamented how purposely offensive many conservatives are being, & I couldn’t argue the point. I am embarrassed by those who do such things.

    The only thing I could say was not to judge all conservatives by those others.

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  37. Airline has already lost $800M. They chose people arbitrarily when no one volunteered to take the “bribe.” I heard someone say today that the problem is the gate people weren’t authorized to offer more money/perks. I suspect, too, that may have been the final flight of the day.

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  38. The polarization is one reason I’ve simply backed out of following politics for now. I don’t feel part of either “side” (although I was still glad to see the new Supreme Court justice finally sworn in).

    The rest of it?

    No thanks. I’m just not interested in the nasty back-and-forth that’s going on currently. Both sides make me weary and disinterested.

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  39. Kizzie, as I watch all that unfolds around me with the intense polarization, there are times when W. B. Yeats’ phrase “the center cannot hold”, from his poem ‘The Second Coming’ reverberates through my brain. In my high school history course that I took by correspondence a couple of years ago, I studied about different modern theories about how historical periods developed. One was by a British historian, Arthur Toynbee. He held that societies rose by their ability to respond creatively to the demands of different interest groups; but when the number of different groups outweighed the ability to respond creatively, society began to fall apart. People are recognizing the strain put upon society by so many groups claiming more and more specialized rights; so their reaction is to form their own special interest group and seek to exclude all other groups from power. That way leads to war.

    However, I still have hope. The One who directs all history is still in control. As a Christian, my duty is love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and strength, and love my neighbour as myself. What happens politically and economically is less important than my immediate duties, because “blessed is that servant, who, when his master comes, will be found so doing.” It is becoming less important to me to win a debate, and more important to model how a Christian should walk. I still feel strongly about many things, but I tell the Lord about my concerns and then let him show me what step to take next. As for interacting with all those special interest groups, I will not condone injustice against the weak and defenseless, as there is strong condemnation of those who harm them in Scripture; but Paul’s words are wise, “inasmuch as it lies within you, live at peace with all men.”

    I realize increasingly while navigating through the changing world, that I can join those who seek to save their economic and political security while losing their souls to violence and hatred of others (remember, Christ said that calling someone names was akin to killing him); or that I can lose my economic and political security and follow the path Christ took of laying down his life for his enemies so they could become friends. Following Christ brings with it a security of eternal value, not to be lightly traded for a political and economic security that, no matter how well constructed, would only last so long as I live. It isn’t as if I don’t get any benefit from following Christ on earth either, as God provides for the needs we have while doing his work; and while that may not be much, it is always enough.

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  40. Kizzie is right, I read about that not long ago and it was new to me, too. We all wore hoop earrings in college and I still have some medium & smallish ones.

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  41. Perhaps I will use that argument with BG over her nose ring. All I can think is “….There in the wood a piggy wig stood with a ring at the end of his nose, his nose. I said to the pig are you willing to sell for one shilling your ring? Said the piggy I will, so we took at way and were married next day by the turkey who lives on the hill….”

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  42. For a while, I was the only “white girl” working in the Sears snack bar — and a few of us also hung out socially, too — and never remember that issue coming up; but then it was a much simpler time (mid-1970s) I suppose. Things change.

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  43. Kizzie, I’m curious, why the objection to white people wearing hoops? Maybe I don’t really want to know, but as a continual student of all things historical, including fashions of clothing and jewelry over the centuries, I know that circles are a universal feature of jewelry. Personally, I think we descendants of the Celts should revive the torc (or torque), which was worn around the neck, as seen in this ancient Roman sculpture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul#/media/File:Dying_GaulDSCF6738.jpg. I’ve always thought it was a pretty interesting cultural piece of jewelry, as was the penannular brooch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_brooch#/media/File:Ireland_2010_etc_029_(2).jpg.

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  44. The laundromat I was in (my story on yesterday’s thread) was in a town that had a rape committed on a lone woman in a laundromat. That was uppermost in my mind. Frankly, whether it is a bathroom, an elevator or an office, I do not want to be alone with a man I do not know extremely well. I want to know I can get help, if I need it.

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  45. I see others beat me to the question. I cannot not wear earrings very often anymore, but my earrings of choice were a small, slender hoops. Then again, maybe I can plead the Gypsy blood my upper class great grandmother always accused her daughter in law of having. Also, hoop earrings cannot be solely African, anymore than nose rings are solely Indian. Other, non-European cultures have them. Besides, hoop earrings appear among European historical artifacts long before Africa was anything more than a legend of a far away place to most of Europe – look at this Croatian earring of the 1300s: http://www.medievalhistories.com/medieval-jewelry-and-burial-assemblages-in-croatia/

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  46. http://www.weeklystandard.com/hoop-earrings-the-latest-target-of-cultural-appropriation/article/2007382

    _________________________________

    Jacquelyn Aguilera (PZ ’19), another student claiming credit for the spray-painted message, responded to the school-wide email thread, “If you didn’t create the culture as a coping mechanism for marginalization, take off those hoops, if your feminism isn’t intersectional take off those hoops, if you try to wear mi cultura when the creators can no longer afford it, take off those hoops, if you are incapable of using a search engine and expect other people to educate you, take off those hoops, if you can’t pronounce my name or spell it … take off those hoops…”

    … I myself started to wonder how it could be that hoop earrings, sold everywhere in America—and worn by women everywhere in America—could be considered such an integral part of a specific ethnic culture that wearing them amounted to appropriation. It turned out that even the oh-so-politically correct Bustle had trouble with that one, too. …
    ____________________________________

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  47. You know, all the sites reporting the cultural appropriation hoop earring story are right wing. I’ve never heard of Pitzer College before. It looks like a case of conservatives making a mountain out of a molehill. Had they not reported on the silly email, which is the kind of thing that might get sent out in any school atmosphere without having any wider impact, then nobody outside the exclusive establishment would have heard about it.

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  48. Darn. For the last 16 and half years I have worn small gold hoops with a single diamond on each one almost every day. Almost exactly like these
    https://www.google.com/search?q=gold+huggies+with+single+diamond&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS701US701&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=4dHZs3ml1M6UCM%253A%253BlvKY_2SnSekiQM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.diamondwave.com%25252Fdiamond-huggie-earrings-in-14k-yellow-gold-1-3-ctw.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=4dHZs3ml1M6UCM%253A%252ClvKY_2SnSekiQM%252C_&usg=__o4RPaRjE_5bonDHpfJGAb0rhNvI%3D&biw=1536&bih=686&ved=0ahUKEwj3kYLxt53TAhWN3oMKHbyIDiwQyjcIqQE&ei=kFbtWPeJJ429jwS8kbrgAg#imgrc=4dHZs3ml1M6UCM:

    I got them instead of a trip to Mexico. 😉
    For my birthday this year Mr. P gave me diamond stud earrings, but once he saw them in my ears he didn’t like them. He thought they were too small, so I took them back and got a pair of white gold and diamond hoop earrings. (Don’t tell him but I was relieved. I spend a lot of time on the phone and studs stick me in the head behind my ears. Now I wear my diamond and white gold hoops almost every day. They are like my huggies only larger and with diamonds all around.
    I can’t take either of them back because exchanging the diamond studs is what got me in trouble with trading in some jewelry I never wear and finishing out my niece’s pears before she gets married and finishing our BG’s pearls. I only have a month left before I can give niece hers for her birthday.
    It just occurred to me. What are biracial women to do?????

    Liked by 1 person

  49. My mother, born in Sicily, had her ears pierced at a month old–tiny hoops. Of course, Sicily is near Africa, but that was 86 years ago. Who knew?

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  50. Oh dear….no hoops?? I do not wear huge hoops, but I do like hoops 🙂
    So if I were in a place alone (laundromat etc) and a man walked in…I don’t care what color he is, I would be concerned…if a man of any color approached my car…I’d be locking my doors (or checking to see if I had forgotten to lock them) I do not see that as “prejudice”…I call that being smart. My sweet 22 yr old daughter was walking out of King Soopers one late afternoon and noticed a van of Hispanic men sitting in said van…the side door was open next to her driver’s side door…she didn’t care what race they were…they were men in a van parked close to her car…she went back in and asked one of the guys at the courtesy desk to escort her out to her car…smart girl….

    Liked by 2 people

  51. We bought a pair of silver hoops for my mother when we were in Chihuahua, as silver is quite cheap there. She loved them, and has always been sad that she lost one. The Mexicans were quite happy to sell them to us. I’ll worry about cultural appropriation when the local craftspeople of a given culture start worrying about it. The West Africans I met were quite happy when I wore their style of clothes and used a name in their language – to them, that was a sign of high respect of their culture. I can understand not using what are religious symbols of a culture disrespectfully – I don’t think Christians would be happy if communion sets, to pick a really significant symbol to Christians, were deliberately imitated for casual refreshment purposes in, say, a Japanese restaurant. The Japanese love to culturally appropriate Western things – there is a chapel in England whose interior was exactly copied by a wedding service company in Japan, because the Japanese like the idea of getting married in a church although they aren’t interested in Christianity. I’ve been amused, as well as saddened, to see how Western and Christian culture is portrayed in Hindi films. Saddened, because it is clear that they simply regard Christianity as another devotional line in a pantheon of possible deities; amused because they have an wonderful sense of humour when it comes to portraying Western pop culture. Never make the mistake of thinking the Eastern cultures do not understand the West. They understand us perhaps better than we understand them, and while they might imitate us in some things, they also like to poke fun at us.

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  52. I hesitated to share this, as I’m not sure that some of the styles of dress and occasional dance moves would be considered appropriate by everyone here, although it is nothing near as inappropriate as the average Western pop music video, but here is the Hindi version of Roy Orbison’s ‘Pretty Woman’, from a Bollywood film about an Indian family in New York, depicting a ‘typical’ American suburban neighborhood:

    Liked by 1 person

  53. From the Atlantic:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/10/the-dos-and-donts-of-cultural-appropriation/411292/

    ______________________________________

    Sometime during the early 2000s, big, gold, “door-knocker” hoop earrings started to appeal to me, after I’d admired them on girls at school. It didn’t faze me that most of the girls who wore these earrings at my high school in St. Louis were black, unlike me. And while it certainly may have occurred to me that I—a semi-preppy dresser—couldn’t pull them off, it never occurred to me that I shouldn’t.

    This was before the term “cultural appropriation” jumped from academia into the realm of Internet outrage and oversensitivity. Self-appointed guardians of culture have proclaimed that Miley Cyrus shouldn’t twerk, white girls shouldn’t wear cornrows, and Selena Gomez should take off that bindi. Personally, I could happily live without ever seeing Cyrus twerk again, but I still find many of these accusations alarming….

    … There are legitimate reasons to step carefully when dressing ourselves with the clothing, arts, artifacts, or ideas of other cultures. But please, let’s banish the idea that appropriating elements from one another’s cultures is in itself problematic. …

    In the 21st century, cultural appropriation—like globalization—isn’t just inevitable; it’s potentially positive. We have to stop guarding cultures and subcultures in efforts to preserve them. It’s naïve, paternalistic, and counterproductive. Plus, it’s just not how culture or creativity work. The exchange of ideas, styles, and traditions is one of the tenets and joys of a modern, multicultural society. …

    ______________________________________

    Silver in Mexico .. Beautiful and affordable. I still have a few items I bought there years ago.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. I see DJ jumped in with the information about cultural appropriation. Thank you, as I didn’t really have time for that.

    Like

  55. My new (temporary) gravatar isn’t a sharp enough photo to send to AJ for him to post, and some of you might not like the violence even if it isn’t bloody. A male kestrel was sitting on our back fence, and I got one photo of him sitting there. Then, just as I snapped another, he lifted off, and I thought I missed him but I didn’t delete the photo just in case.

    When I pulled it up on my computer, there in the upper left-hand corner (almost out of the frame, but fortunately still inside it) was my kestrel . . . but with a surprise. In his right talon is a rodent (probably a vole). He took it to the fence post and ate it.

    Since he is all the way to the back of our large yard and I was inside the house (taking it from the window) and since he was moving and nearly out of the frame, it isn’t anything close to a good photo. But the creature looks so large and heavy in his talon, and I didn’t know (when he still sat on the fence and I snapped the photo) that he had caught anything, that the creature in his talon was quite a surprise. I just wish it wasn’t so close to the edge of the frame, and also wasn’t beyond the effective camera range! But getting a photo at all at that range is a lot, so I’m not complaining.

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