52 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 1-23-17

  1. “And the dawn comes up like thunder”
    Kipling, in Mandilay

    I took that because a few minutes ago , it was dark.
    That was at Dhahran Airbase in Saudi Arabia.
    There are, as you can see, no clouds,. Not much humidity to reflect the sun and the sun comes up all of a sudden. Almost no twilight.
    It rises quickly in lower latitudes anyhow.

    I was out there because I was gong on a mission. There is no other reason for being on the flight line.

    Liked by 9 people

  2. Phos, from last night:
    “There were some very wonderful young women, with good character, but in order of amount of male attention received it was first, blond, second, petite, third, attractive figure. Those who didn’t fall within those categories were treated as just good buddies”

    That is what causes the first look, I’ll admit. But, I’ve told you a thousand times now, when I first saw Elvera, it was a February night. She wasn’t blond, never was. Not petite and she was dressed in February clothing, so I never saw her figure. She wasn’t “Fox News Beautiful” but she was attractive. It was just something and I knew it immediately.

    Admitted, “pretty” gets the first glance. But it isn’t what counts. I firmly believe that God works in the affairs of men. Even what we would consider trivial things.

    Liked by 5 people

  3. And since Chas brought up the discussion from last night, I have something I’d like to revisit as well.

    Kizzie said this…..

    “Just learned that a young lady, the daughter of my friend Jenn, the lady with the severe health problems, has to hand her twin boys (only five months old now) over to their dad every other weekend. These babies are far too young to understand such a thing!

    Nightingale said she thought that family court judges will not allow infants to be away from their mothers for that long, but it was a judge who ordered this arrangement. Those poor babies! That is just nuts.”

    What’s the problem?

    First, as the father, he has every right to visitation with his children, regardless of their age. While they may be too young to understand it, that doesn’t change the fact that the father wants to see them.

    Second, the second part. What’s nuts about a father taking his 5 month old children for 2 weekends a month? You think 48 hours with Dad twice a month is too long to be away from Mom? Why? There’s no reason, other than health issues, that should limit the father’s rights to see his children. If anything, he should be getting way more time with them, for their benefit, and because he has that right. Or do you believe he should be financially obligated to support them, but not allowed to see them? That’s nuts.

    The woman doesn’t have to like it, but Dad has rights too, and if he’s willing to be in his children’s life then maybe Mom should just shut up and let him do the right thing. Women complain (and rightly so) when men don’t do right by their kids, yet throw up ridiculous roadblocks like this when they do?

    Get over yourselves, Dads can do it all by themselves too, from the day they are born. I know because I did it for years. And there’s no reason to think this man can’t too.

    Liked by 5 people

  4. Chas, I’m the last person to say things were better in history, but I think in your era that young men were less, for lack of a better term, spoilt. Men in that era had an interest in getting married and they did not care about the imperfections all women have. My mother was never pretty, but my father, who would be considered a handsome man, found her attractive. The same with my maternal grandmother and grandfather. Now, partly because of the all encompassing media, which infuses the daily activities of life, young men have some very unreasonable ideas. This doesn’t just come from observation of how they act. My siblings and I have heard at different times young men list the things that their woman must have, and the lists are mostly composed of things involving outward attractiveness, not inward character (Clue to young men who wonder why they don’t have a girlfriend, do not discuss in front of the young women of your acquaintance which current film star you would rather date).

    The Real, what occurred to me reading Kizzie’s story, was that at five months, the babies should still be breastfed. That is one thing fathers cannot do.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. It seems I missed quite the discussion last night. I will have to go back and catch up. I spent time yesterday with friends. I will give an update on my friend L on the prayer thread.
    I will say that I went to see Hidden Figures on Saturday. I loved it. I cried twice in the movie. Chas will have to verify if the movie stayed true to facts about these three women. One became the first African American and female engineer at NASA. Her name was Mary and for the life of me I cannot remember her last name. One was Dorothy Vaughn and she became the supervisor and FORTRAN programmer in the computer lab at Langley. Then there was Katherine Goble Johnson. She did the math. She was a “computer” in the West Computing Department where all the black women worked.
    1. When John Glenn went into space they left out “God Speed, John Glenn”. They did have his character say it back to mission control.
    2. It wasn’t lost on me that I saw this movie on Saturday when a bunch of whiny hiny, entitled, most white women marched around for their rights. These three black women did more in the early 1960’s to influence and change the world than that bunch accomplished on Saturday. Oh, and I personally know one of the ones marching in DC. She does so much to help the under privileged and those who just aren’t as enlightened as she. After all, she buys free trade coffee, blood free diamonds, and has to decide which of her 6 mink coats to wear when it is cold.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. I’m not sure if any here have heard of the doctors’ strike in Kenya, but here is a missionary’s account of what it is like (although the little clinic I was in didn’t face such complicated cases, the working conditions sound very familiar): http://paradoxuganda.blogspot.ca/2017/01/kenyan-doctor-strike-week-7.html

    Saturday, about 1 pm, we’ve been rounding and dealing with patients and crises for about 5 hours, and are about to go buy groceries then meet a taxi bringing a visitor to us from Nairobi. Scott gets a call from casualty—they have a woman with abdominal pain and bleeding, she’s dizzy and barely awake. I find two nurses holding IV bags while an ultrasound tech confirms an ectopic pregnancy (the fetus is not in the womb, but in one of the Fallopian tubes which then ruptures) and Scott is making phone calls to get an anesthetist to the operating theatre. Her blood pressure is 70/30, way too unstable to transfer. It’s him, or nothing. He’s done this surgery before, but not often enough to be confident. Let alone in the circumstances of yesterday: no power, because the workmen are installing a back-up generator only they’re not done yet. We’re out of some of the necessary sutures. The lab can’t run samples. There’s no blood in the blood bank. I run out to pick up our visitor and by the time I’m back, Scott’s in the theater, wearing his headlamp in the dim light. Blood is pouring out onto the floor, the suction isn’t working. A back-up power source was running the electrocautery, but then stops (it turns out the anesthetist tripped over the plug, but we don’t realize that at the time). I stand in the theatre and watch and pray as he works. It turns out the ultrasound tech wrote down the wrong side, so that takes a few minutes to sort out. As if there wasn’t enough else wrong with this picture. He eventually stops the bleeding, cleans out the clots, removes the ruptured tube, sews her up. She lost about half her blood volume. Instead of a post-op ICU, she gets a general ward with no monitoring. But by God’s grace, she lives…

    Liked by 2 people

  7. I also was concerned about the dad thing with the five month old. Babies need their daddies. Breastmilk is important and women pump all the time. The gain of being with daddy is worth the trouble for the woman to pump and if it is not, formula works. Perfect dads are important. So so dads are important. “I can’t believe he is a dad”s are important. Dangerous dads, baby needs to be protected from. Same with dangerous moms. Babies need moms and dads.

    Liked by 5 people

  8. I can’t imagine a “doctor’s strike”.
    Did the baby survive? I know, Don’t know.

    Kim, I’m not familiar with that movie. But I worked for a black female boss in 1975 and for several years after that.
    I liked her, she was a good boss. Must have been brilliant because she hired me. 😆

    Liked by 4 people

  9. Chas, an ectopic pregnancy is too early for survival, but the mother will potentially die. I know someone who shows how very pro-life she is by insisting on no abortion even in cases of ectopic pregnancy . . . but I don’t know that there is an ob/gyn on earth who agrees with her. It isn’t a viable pregnancy.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. Our rain is trying to move out but is still lingering — along with some cold-for-us weather.

    After today’s off-and-on rain and thunder showers it’s supposed to be sunny but still cool for the next week. The rain this season, after being trapped in a drought for so long, has been glorious.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Roscuro,

    It’s called a breast pump. Mom, if she’s breast feeding, is already pumping supplies daily. Simply send Dad with what’s needed. She can continue to pump and store while the kids are away (my wife pumped at work too) as well. Problem solved.

    And again, I know it can be done because my wife pumped it, we froze the extra, and I gave it to her when Mom was away at work and what not. This isn’t a reason to deny visits with Dad, as anyone who ever did it can testify.

    Liked by 4 people

  12. What I was concerned with is not that they are spending time with their dad, but that infants (this has been going on since they were tiny) are so strongly bonded with their mothers that being away from them for a whole weekend could be traumatic for them. Little Guy was kept overnight by his dad one time shortly before he was a year old, & he showed definite signs of trauma the next day, screaming when his mommy went out of his sight to do something, & clinging tightly to her.

    I am not against father’s rights at all, but couldn’t fathers of infants have their time with the mothers present, or maybe not for so long a time in the beginning?

    Liked by 1 person

  13. I’m hoping my real estate friend, who says he wants to put in the remaining bathroom fixtures himself (though I’m not sure about the electrical stuff), will be coming around sometime this week while I’m at work to do that — once the rain lets up outside.

    But beggars can’t be choosers and he’s saving me a lot of money (I insist he send me a bill, however). But he really has been able to shave off labor costs for me by cherry-picking some good, affordable workers he comes across — and providing the needed supervision when he’s had the time.

    I’ll try to get a shot of the bead board & medicine cabinet to send in, however. It’s such a tiny space it’s hard to even take pictures in there.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. This particular dad is also supposed to see his babies for a couple visits during the week, but usually blows them off, so it’s not as if he is being denied time with them. My concern, again, is with them being away from their mom for a whole weekend at this tender age.

    And, although I would not say this to the people involved, I blame both parents in these situations for screwing around (excuse the expression) & creating this mess. (On the other hand, I give the mom credit for not aborting her babies.)


  15. I saw a short interview with one of the women from that movie, Kim. She did say that there was some condensing and fudging of the actual facts in the movie. She would not say which ones and did say it pretty much told the truth. Most people and situations are treated that way in movies. Most of us are too boring or too many characters etc. can get too confusing. So, writer do what they can for a good story. Hopefully, they do not change things so much that it becomes propaganda for some cause.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Again, I want to make it clear that my comment last night was not to be against their spending time with their dad, but that those weekends away from mom started when they were still tiny seemed like too much time at that age. (And five months old isn’t exactly “big”.)

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Good Afternoon, Y’all!
    Just thought I’d check in…
    New job keeps me busy
    School going well
    Daughter got married and is expecting!
    Youngest son engaged
    Oldest making grad school decisions
    I feel old!

    Liked by 9 people

  18. Good Morning….now I am curious and will have to go see that movie!!
    Chas last week as I was standing at the kitchen window I told the mister that it was snowing out back….his reply “well is it snowing out front too?”!!?? We had a good chuckle!
    Kizzie I am encouraged that this dad is wanting to spend time with his boys…hopefully he is caring for them in a nurturing manner and bonding with them as well as he can…..I would have the opinion that Mom should not be there during “his” time necessarily….were they together as a family during the pregnancy and early days as they came home from the hospital? I have seen all too many young men deny paternity…..abandoning those whom they should be embracing….

    Liked by 3 people

  19. But if she is pumping regularly, there should be a stockpile in the freezer. I say this because I had a foster child on breast milk and that is how we did it.

    Time with dad is important. And time with dad should be a bonus, not a hindrance. The child should not be screaming for the other parent. Just as in a bonded family, with all living together, the baby attaches to the mom and the dad.

    Many babies go to day care and may be there for an extended time and should not be screaming. If they are getting the love and attention they need in both places, it is not ideal but it should not be traumatic.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. But, Mumsee, you and I both know that it is traumatic and children that go to daycare do not always thrive as well as those kept at home. Attachment disorder is very real and once the damage is done, it cannot be undone. I had to be placed in an oxygen tent in hospital as an 18 month old, and my mother said I sobbed my heart out because she couldn’t hold me. When, as an eight year old, I was hospitalized again, I couldn’t sleep when my mother went home for the night because I was so afraid of losing her – even back home, I went through a period where I dreaded losing sight of my mother for fear something would happen to her, early signs of my anxiety issues developing, I suppose. I agree that fathers are very important and should be involved as much as possible – it would be best for the couple to marry – but I would point out that, in the law of Moses, if a man had seduced a young woman, her father was not obligated to marry her to that man, although the seducer had to pay the bride price (Exodus 22:16-17). It is most likely that the way many such seductions were discovered were through pregnancy. Granted, there are awful mothers out there, where the child would be better off with the father; however, historical precedent has been to keep the young child with his/her mother, at least for those early years. Hannah did not give Samuel to the Lord until she had weaned him.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Not that I am a shining example of anything but I was in hospital isolation as a child. It did lead to a lifelong fear of clowns. My grandfather spent the night with me and my mother was there every morning. I survived.

    I breastfed BG. I weaned her at 12 months. There was enough breast milk stored in the freezer that she didn’t even try cow’s milk for a month.

    It isn’t ideal and I would have cried if I had to be away from her at 5 months but the parents need to act like grownups because they sure did at least once in the past year or so and put these babies first. I would have NEVER kept BG away from her father. She is 19 and a half and I am still running around trying to make sure they have a relationship.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. Oh, I agree, Phos. And you know that. Just that, in an imperfect world, we have to do what we can. Ideally, folks would marry and then produce children, and stick together, making it work and giving the children a good example of two people who love each other.

    That lacking, the dad is just as important to the child. Babies tend to spend more time with mom, but if dad is willing to work at it, it should also be good bonding time for dad and baby. Which is why, in a strong family, dad can get up with the baby and the baby will be content with him even if mom is so wiped out she can’t move.

    Having two such important people with whom baby has bonded is huge. And as the baby grows and dad becomes more and more important, there is no transition, the bond is already there.

    So, if mom and dad refuse to work it out or can’t, the baby knowing both is valuable. If mom goes to jail, dad is still there. If dad gets in an accident and dies, mom is still there. It is trying to think of the benefit to the baby that matters more than the needs of either parent.

    Of course the other parent is not going to do things in exactly the same way. But each parent being encouraging to the other will go a long way to pave the road to success.

    And I know that rarely happens in the land of divorce. Which was why I was so impressed with the way Kim and George seemed to be able to work toward daughter’s well being. And the new parents as they came into the scene.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Cheryl, I am curious as to whether or not the person who said she would not allow abortion for an ectopic pregnancy referred directly to that or used the euphemism, ‘health of the mother’? I was accused for wanting my niece to die because I am pro-life. She did not explain further, but I am thinking that was what she was referring to. The conversation began when she said making fun of the handicapped was as low as you could go. I replied that killing them was surely lower. I was trying to say nothing–like Michelle, but sometimes…

    Liked by 3 people

  24. Please. I did not say the babies should not spend any time with their dad. Maybe my first comment on the subject seemed that way, but I have been trying to explain since then, & the other comments keep going back to how important the dad is.

    I know that. I am not denying that.

    That is why, despite the way he is, we have been as accommodating to Mr X as we can be. We have been polite & nice to him, & have not talked down about him to Little Guy. When Little Guy would be expecting him to come pick him up, but he would just not show up, I always made excuses for him rather than say anything negative.

    In the case of infants, couldn’t the dad have his weekday visits, & on his weekends, have them during the days, but home with the mom at night? At least for the first few months? This doesn’t have to be an either/or kind of thing. Saying that babies need their mothers does not equate to not needing their fathers.

    In the case of those twins, Grandma Jenn says they are quite cranky when they come back home.

    When Nightingale was in the hospital for a couple nights shortly before she turned two, I stayed with her the first night, & Hubby the second. She cried for Mommy on & on that night. I have felt guilty about that ever since then.


  25. I have come across people who comment that even in ectopic pregnancies, every effort should be made to save the child. They cannot seem to grasp just how serious it is when a woman has a fallopian tube rupture from an ectopic pregnancy. The article on Kenya that I linked goes on to talk about another mother with HELLP syndrome. That is another life threatening condition where the child must be delivered by induction or Caesarean even if it is barely viable, or both mother and child will die: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/preeclampsia/basics/complications/con-20031644. HELLP and the related pre-eclampsia usually occur later in the pregnancy, giving the child a better chance for survival, but there is no way to preserve an ectopic pregnancy in the fallopian tubes that long. The tube can only stretch so large before it ruptures.

    Where there is confusion is the fact that the word ectopic simply refers to the fact that the embryo baby has implanted somewhere outside the uterus. There are rare cases where the fertilized egg has fallen out into the mother’s abdomen and attached to the membranes surrounding the internal organs. In those cases, the children have actually been brought to term, although they must be delivered by Caesarean section, because, not being in the uterus, there is no other way to get them out. Before the days of successful Caesareans both mother and child in such ectopic pregnancies would have died horribly. It is incredibly risky carrying them to term, because the growing child could easily cause the circulation to the internal organs to be cut off (and loss of circulation to the intestines is in itself life-threatening), or damage the internal organs by its movements. One of my nursing teachers, who had worked in the emergency room, told how one day a woman came in with horrible abdominal pain. They suspected a rupturing appendix and operated immediately. They found a full term child, which had attached to the mesentery, the membrane surrounding the intestines. The woman did not know she was pregnant, and in any case, the child wasn’t where anyone would have been looking for it. Both mother and child survived. So, in those cases, an ectopic pregnancy can survive, though it will need to be supervised very carefully.


  26. Karen, don’t think of it as us coming down on you, just that you brought up a sore subject. I kind of think, if the judges awarded the children to the dads, there would be a lot more canceled divorces.

    Liked by 5 people

  27. Roscuro, that is helpful to have that further information, about ectopic pregnancies that sometimes attach somewhere else.

    Yes, Kathaleena, she was most definitely talking about ectopic pregnancy. Her husband wasn’t saved and she was using that as an example of how an ungodly man wasn’t totally pro-life, and how he would not agree with her insistence that he would not tell the doctor “Go ahead and do it” in case of an ectopic pregnancy needing a decision. I said something like “Wait a second. An ectopic pregnancy is not a viable pregnancy, with no chance of carrying a baby to term, and a good chance the mother may die.” I even corresponded with the ob/gyn who hung out on the World blog (Stu something, StuBob?) and he said she’s ignorant, that this is not killing a baby, but saving a mother’s life. He was a Presbyterian elder, but in her mind that proved he wasn’t as good a Christian as he might be, because “real” pro-life Christians are this solidly pro-life.

    I made the mistake one time, I was together with this woman and we were having another friend over, and ahead of time she asked could we bring up the subject and get the other woman’s perspective? She said she wouldn’t use my name. Well, it ended up being a very awkward conversation, because there ended up being two others who came by, and the question was raised, “A friend of mine who is a Christian thinks abortion is OK in the case of ectopic pregnancies,” and those two others were horrified any Christian could believe such a thing, and one of them said, “Sometimes an ectopic pregnancy survives,” and I really just wasn’t inclined to sit there and say, “Hey, ladies, I’m the ‘bad Christian’ in question here, and medically your position isn’t really supported.” So I wished I had said no, let’s not talk about it any more.

    A few months ago I read Ravi Zacharias’s autobiography, and it was either his wife or his daughter who came very close to death with an ectopic pregnancy–it was very grim reading, a really horrifying, harrowing time for them.


  28. As very pro-life as Victoria was, I was quite surprised that she was in favor of abortion in the case of rape, although I do understand why many take that stance. I think I believed that way for a while.

    Cheryl – Something made me think of StuBob recently. 🙂


  29. Cheryl, I would emphasize that the abdominal ectopic pregnancy is very rare. The vast majority of ectopic pregnancies are in the fallopian tubes, and it is the leading cause of maternal death in the first trimester: http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/0215/p1080.html

    Ectopic pregnancy is any pregnancy in which the fertilized ovum implants outside the intrauterine cavity. More than 95 percent of ectopic pregnancies occur in the fallopian tubes. Another 2.5 percent occur in the cornua of the uterus, and the remainder are found in the ovary, cervix or abdominal cavity. Because none of these anatomic sites can accommodate placental attachment or a growing embryo, the potential for rupture and hemorrhage always exists. A ruptured ectopic pregnancy is a true medical emergency. It is the leading cause of maternal mortality in the first trimester and accounts for 10 to 15 percent of all maternal deaths.

    Stories like the one my teacher told are fascinating because it almost never happens that way, but such accounts should never obscure the grim reality of ectopic pregnancies.


  30. Last night, as I sat on the couch reading, Little Guy came running downstairs, hopped up on the couch, kneeling next to me, & whispered something in my ear: “I love you & you’re pretty.” I delightedly thanked him, hugged him, & told him I love him, too, & that he is cute & handsome.

    Not having been born yesterday, I asked Nightingale this morning what that was all about. Turns out his homework was to do something to make someone feel special, & Nightingale suggested that to him.

    Well, I figured she put him up to it for some reason, but it was still sweet that he did it. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  31. I am impressed with Chas’ photo. You must have scanned it as I don’t think you would have had it in digital format and then figured out how to send it to Aj. a new era


  32. JO, Sam’s club put the 35 mm slide on a cd and I put it on the computer. I then attached them to an e-mail. I made a zillion (OK only a billion) 35 mm slides. Had to send them to Kodak at Rochester, NY to have the film made into slides.
    I trashed lots of them. I still have a lot.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Kizzie,

    I don’t think you’re jumping on the man, just that you don’t give them enough credit. I don’t think anything you mentioned shows a need to exclude the father from overnights with his kids.

    And there could be any number of reasons why the kid seems cranky when he came home, most of which have nothing to do with Dad. It could even be because they were happy at Dad’s and disappointed to have to go back. It can and does work both ways. 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Thanks, Cheryl, for explaining. I know many think ‘health of the mother’ means a serious medical condition. It has long been an excuse for any abortion, so I was not sure. I would be very happy to have those in favor of abortion reduce the sole reasons for life of the mother. There would be very few actual abortions. I will not hold my breath, however.


  35. …he made a couple math comments that were way above my head!

    That reminds me of an episode of the TV show Numb3rs, which featured a mathematician helped the FBI. Every episode had him explaining some formula he could use to solve a crime. Once, a visitor looked lost. One of the agents ytold him, “Just nod your head and pretend you understand.”

    Liked by 1 person

  36. AJ – Thank you. But It’s not that I am not giving the man credit, but that I feel babies this young are too young to be away from their mother for that long a period of time. But this is the world we live in now, with so many children born to parents who are not together. It’s very sad.


  37. Peter – We used to watch Numb3rs, too. It was an enjoyable show. We liked the family scenes. That’s probably why we like Blue Bloods now.


  38. My husband and I saw “Hidden Figures” today. I couldn’t help but hope that it ends up being seen by many, many minority children and gives them the idea that honing one’s skills and using them is the best way to gain and keep respect. Very, very few people can ever have the minds those women did, but doing one’s best is simply a better path to success than is whining about how others don’t let you succeed. The “victim mentality” is often being sold even by those who have met great success, but it isn’t the best way forward.

    But mostly I was amazed at how people working together in areas so far outside my expertise I could hardly understand what was going on did things that generations before us would hardly have imagined.

    Liked by 6 people

  39. PS I did not mean to suggest black people did not (and, at points, do not still) had huge obstacles in their path–that was a real focus of the movie, and of American history. But they didn’t get past the obstacles by complaining, but by being so valuable it was foolish to keep the barriers up.


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