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Our Daily Thread 8-17-13

Good Morning!

Saturday! Yay! 🙂

On this day in 1790 the capital city of the U.S. moved to Philadelphia from New York City.

In 1863 in Charleston, South Carolina, Union batteries and ships bombard Confederate-held Fort Sumter.

In 1950 the Hill 303 massacre of American POWs occurred. They were massacred by the North Korean Army.

In 1998 President Bill Clinton admits in taped testimony that he had an “improper physical relationship” with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. On the same day he admits before the nation that he “misled people” about the relationship.

And it’s Chas’ birthday too! 🙂

So wish him a Happy Birthday!

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Quote of the Day

“Expect great things from God, attempt great things for God.

William Carey

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Today is the birthday of Kevin Max Smith. Since we just had some Audio Adrenaline the other day, we’ll go with some early stuff with DC Talk.

Next up, it’s Belinda Carlisle’s.

And also Sib Hashian’s.

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Anyone have a QoD?

81 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-17-13”

  5. almost 10 pm here. Save me some cake. I know you all will be partying with Chas today. You birthday was quite cool here Chas, but no rain. Thanks for the rave of your life that you wrote. Thanks for the faithful way that you praise the Lord for your lovely wife.

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  12. Thanx everyone. And thanks for the cakes Kim. I couldn’t decide which to take, so, I took all of them.
    I discovered that the Meanest Woman in the World isn’t going to have a coconut cake for me today.
    However, she is going to take me to Outback for dinner tonight.
    She’s going to pay for it. 😆
    Seriously. She’s going to pay for dinner out of her account.
    The thing is: My account is our money. Her account is hers.
    All the real money in this family is already in her name.
    My financial consultant says that is common.

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  13. I think Chas may have been the first person to respond to my first post at WMB. If not THE first, then one of the first. Can’t go back and check now. What a blessing it is to have this place that AJ set up. Thank you AJ, and thank you, Chas, for following AJ over here and continuing to bless us with your presence at WV. And, again (I already said this on Rants & Raves, but it doesn’t hurt to say it again), Happy Birthday!

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  16. Someone I’m friends with on FB just posted a link to an article that lists 10 ways that having a toddler is like being in prison. I guess it’s a matter of perspective, but just last week I told my hubby that my first million years in heaven I want to be like the half hour in the morning after I get Emmy (aged 2 1/2) up in the morning. I don’t believe our own sons ever made us feel like we were in prison – quite the contrary, we felt privledged to enjoy their company. When they “acted their age” they were just doing their job.

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  18. Happy birthday, Chas! You share the date with my little brother; I remember that from past years.

    I, too, appreciate your presence on here, especially your prayers for us, and your willingness to call it like you see it.

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  19. Happy Birthday Chas! Thanks you for your wisdom & humor — and thank you for still reading your local newspaper. 😉 You rock.

    Mmmm, Outback. Maybe they’ll have a piece of birthday cake for you there! With ice cream, of course.

    Know what else today is? It’s the day I’ve decided to let Annie Oakley go outside again for the first time since her expensive accident. I was going to pay the bill out of her account, but it was empty. She must have spent all her money on something else this past year. And since we don’t have any BoCare yet …

    So far, she’s not noticed that I haven’t locked up the doggie door. Eventually she’ll figure out it’s suddenly open to her again.

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  20. Meanwhile, Tess raided her food again, I had a lapse and left her bowl of dry food down within reach so after Tess ate her own dinner she scarfed down Annie’s, too. What a pig.

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  21. The cat has launched.

    She straddled the doggie door for the longest time, her head and forelegs outdoors, the rest of her still in the kitchen. Sniff, stare, then out she popped, looking like she’d never seen the outdoors before, like she’d landed in Oz. She’s slowly and cautiously re-exploring the backyard.

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  22. Thanks everyone. You need to be careful though. I might get a big head.
    Half of all the compliments I’ve ever received, I got today.
    😉

    BIG Rave on the R&R

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  23. Chas was one of the first folks I interacted with here (or WMB, that is, the precursor), too — on the subject of newspapers, of course, as I recall. 🙂

    I’ve been here since 2007-08, I believe I began posting regularly (after lurking off and on sporadically) in the spring/summer of ’08, leading up to the 2008 presidential election.

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  24. OK, now let’s start talking about things we don’t like about Chas, so he doesn’t get a big head.

    I’ll go first. . . . Hmm, couldn’t think of anything. 😉 Anyone else?

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  26. Notice how quiet it is here after Cheryl’s suggestion @ 13:39. 😉 Didn’t someone dig up something when Chas was running for president? 🙂

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  29. I currently have a small wounded hawk in my bathroom. Hubby brought him home last night and now we can’t find a wildlife/raptor place to take him. We found one, but they aren’t calling us back. Sigh. Poor bird. He has eaten a grasshopper, I’m kind of hoping our cat finds a mouse today when we’re watching, so we can give the hawk a wounded mouse.

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  30. Poor hawk! Kare2012 you’ll have a whole nature’s food chain going in your bathroom. I know raptor people but they’re in so cal — fb friends, if you think they can help I can send them your way.

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  32. :-( I have to apologize for my 9:54. I did get some cocoanut cake.

    Actually, I’m embarrassed to admit it. After 56 years I should know that just because I can’t see it doesn’t mean we don’t have any. It always turns up somehow.
    🙂

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  34. I was able to contact a raptor society that we have used before but a province over. He was able to give me advice and a few suggestions. I just can’t find anyone here to take the hawk. And he needs care as his leg appears to be broken. I’m going to feed him some raw chicken a little later this evening. I’ve left messages all over, but it’s the weekend – apparently wildlife doesn’t get injured on the weekend.

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  37. OK, I have an antique faux silverware question.

    I have several pieces (mid 1800s) of tableware that was found at my mom’s house when I was clearing things out — I’ve hung on to them for some reason and today was trying to see if I could ‘polish’ them up.

    I can’t, they’re stamped with “german silver” and “nickel silver,” which apparently means it’s mostly copper.

    From looking on ebay it’s not worth that much per se, so I’m wondering if something like this could be restored (affordably) and used again (safely)?

    Some pieces are marked Wm. Rogers (there’s middle initial, can’t remember what it was).

    These are fairly lightweight and clearly not expensive pieces, they were what regular folk might be able to afford. But I like the style (very plain) and would love to be able to use them — but not sure the metals are safe enough unless I got them completely re-plated.

    Any thoughts?

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  41. I really do like the pieces, cheap as they probably are — and would like to “use” them if it can be made safe (heaven knows what metals were used in these in the 1800s!)

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  42. Hey, Chas! Happy Birthday! You share a birthday with my 3rd child (2nd daughter). She is only 26, far younger than your ? years (it’s 39+ I believe). I was up real early this morning because Mrs L, D3 and I were meeting D1 and her family along with D2 in St Louis to celebrate D2’s birthday. We had a fun day at the zoo there. Long, but enjoyable. The only person missing was my son.

    I haven’t been to the St Louis Zoo in 20 years or more, so a lot has changed there. They have a hippopotamus area now where you go down below the water level to see them. An adult can see both above and below the water. This was the first time I had seen them doing something other than sticking their noses out of the water. I didn’t realize they were so graceful when swimming.

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  52. Thanks Anonymous and others. I notice yours is at 00 37. That means that I no longer have a BD and am just another old codger.
    😆
    Who’s getting ready to go study the Bible with a bunch of other old codgers.

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  53. The weather has cooled. It was really kinda chilly on the seventeenth of August.
    It is presently 61.4 degrees and raining hard in Hendersonville. My back yard is literally a swamp.

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  54. Interesting link about the Bible Belt Donna. Living in the Bible Belt I was prepared to read it and be offended. I agreed with some of his points and disagreed with others.
    I think it is important to see that the “mission field” doesn’t have to be in Gambia or New Zealand for all of us. ( This isn’t a dig at our missionaries there, just a “close to us” example). The mission field for most of us can be as close as our front door or as far away as Idaho.
    Christianity has historically never been easy to supress and my suspicion is that a lot more of us would become more well honed if we thought we were.

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  55. Donna, it is never good for a country when Christian standards are not the benchmark. Regardless of the divorce rate, eveyone should know what marriage is. Regardless of the availability of alcohol, everyone should know that drunkenness is not cute. Everyone should know that a father should help raise the children.
    Ten good men could have saved Sodom.
    You can tell i could go on about this. But you get what I mean.

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  56. Today, the pastor preached a sermon entitled “I know God is able”. The text was Eph. 3:20 “Now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all we ask or think, according to the power that works in us.”
    He closed with an illustration. I don’t know if it’s true, I take his word for it.
    Years ago, in a Rose Bowl parade a truck was pulling a float. The truck ran out of gas and held up the parade until they could find gas for the truck.
    The float the truck was pulling was the Standard Oil float.
    😆

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  57. Here’s a question for opinions/expert advice: I’m getting our love letters “printed” for our anniversary (shhh!), but I’m not sure whether they should be “the love letters of John and Jane Roe” or “John Roe and Jane Doe.” I was, of course, Cheryl D. when I was writing them. If you found such a book put together by your ancestors, would you expect it to have her maiden name or her married name on the cover? (And where this gets tricky as far as “ancestors” are concerned: Our grandchildren won’t ever meet their biological grandmother, so they will think of me as their grandmother. Our daughters are more interested in their parents’ love story, and they know the family connected with their mother’s maiden name; I imagine their children will feel more “connection” with me and perhaps with my wider family. In other words, I’m not sure how much my “maiden name” will mean to anyone who might read these letters someday, if anyone other than me and my husband do.)

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  58. Cheryl – What about – “…of John Roe and Jane (Doe) Roe”? Or the same without the parentheses?

    In the discussion of baptism the other day, was it you who wondered why some strongly emphasize total immersion?

    My thought on that is that, in addition to the fact that Jesus was baptized by immersion, baptism is meant to signify our entering into the death & resurrection of Jesus. The immersion into the water symbolizes His death, & of course, the coming out of the water, His resurrection (I know you know this). I find “sprinkling” to be lacking in the symbolism.

    However, I wouldn’t expect someone who had undergone that kind of baptism to have to be immersed, unless they wanted to. There was a lady in our former congregation who had a feeding tube, & had to be baptized by having some water poured over her head.

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  59. But I’m not sure the Bible says Jesus was immersed:

    http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/was-jesus-baptized-by-immersion

    (This is a Catholic site, but follows the discussion I’ve heard on the topic):

    (From Mark 1:9-10): This passage doesn’t say Christ was baptized by immersion, only that after his baptism, Jesus “came up out of the water.” This phrase could refer to immersion, but needn’t. Jesus could have stepped into the shallows and had John the Baptist pour water on his head. …

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  60. Karen,

    That is the “Baptist” answer to the baptism question . . . Jesus was immersed and it represents His death and burial, and thus we must be immersed too.

    As Donna already pointed out, the belief that Jesus was immersed isn’t clear in the text. We say that someone “came out of” the swimming pool not to (necessarily) mean they had their head under the water, but that they stepped out of the water. Likewise, the Ethiopian eunuch pointed out the presence of water, but that proves nothing either way, since all of us agree with using water for baptism.

    I understand that art in the catacombs (very early church) depicts baptism by pouring.

    Further, exactly what is “depicted” by baptism is another thing that is “read into” the text and where I wish Scripture was more clear! Does baptism represent union with Christ? the covenant, as circumcision did? Christ’s death and resurrection?

    Even saying it represents Christ’s death and resurrection does not, by itself, mean it has to be shown by immersion–I’ve heard that one answered this way: We bury people six feet under, so immersion is a good “representation” to us of death and burial. But is it as good a representation of burial in a tomb (the way Jesus was buried)?

    I wish it was clear–I really do. Since it isn’t, I have a hard time being insistent on any particular point. I see the parallels with circumcision (as the Lord’s supper is parallel with Passover) . . . but I don’t see the parallels actually “spelled out,” and I do see baptism linked with salvation. Basically I determined a few years ago that I’d be willing to follow my husband’s lead as to when we have our children baptized; I’m fully comfortable with the Reformed understanding, but unwilling to call any other answer heresy.

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  62. Cheryl & Donna –

    I found this reference, in 1 Peter 3:21, which compares baptism to bathing…

    ” And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” (Amplified Version)

    As for the connection with His death & resurrection, there are these…

    Romans 6:4…
    “We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious [power] of the Father, so we too might [habitually] live and behave in newness of life.”

    Colossians 2:12…
    “[Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.”

    However, I’m not saying that I adamantly believe in immersion as the only acceptable method, just sharing some thoughts.

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  63. Some thoughts from J.I. Packer:

    http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/packer/baptism.html

    “Christian baptism, which has the form of a ceremonial washing (like John’s pre-Christian baptism), is a sign from God that signifies inward cleansing and remission of sins (Acts 22:16; 1 Cor. 6:11; Eph. 5:25-27), Spirit-wrought regeneration and new life (Titus 3:5), and the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit as God’s seal testifying and guaranteeing that one will be kept safe in Christ forever (1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13-14). Baptism carries these meanings because first and fundamentally it signifies union with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection (Rom. 6:3-7; Col. 2:11-12); and this union with Christ is the source of every element in our salvation (1 John 5:11-12). Receiving the sign in faith assures the persons baptized that God’s gift of new life in Christ is freely given to them. At the same time, it commits them to live henceforth in a new way as committed disciples of Jesus. Baptism signifies a watershed point in a human life because it signifies a new-creational engrafting into Christ’s risen life. …

    “No prescription of a particular mode of baptism can be found in the New Testament. The command to baptize may be fulfilled by immersion, dipping, or sprinkling; all three modes satisfy the meaning of the Greek verb baptizo and the symbolic requirement of passing under, and emerging from, cleansing water. … “

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  64. Donna, it is funny, we were just hearing a sermon on John 3 this morning, and I (having read the late discussion here) noticed the phrase, “And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there..” (vs.23) and I thought that was a pretty good indication that immersion was used. Also, there is the meaning of the transliterated word ‘baptize’ (From Strong’s):
    1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
    2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
    3) to overwhelm
    In other words, getting thoroughly wet. It isn’t a hill that one needs to die on (and I don’t intend to) but I though I might as well give the counter argument.

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  65. Cheryl the proper way to print would either be the
    Love Letters of Mr. and Mrs. John Doe
    nee’ Jane Roe
    or
    The Love Letters of John Doe and Jane Doe (nee’ Jane Roe)
    or
    The Love Letters of John Doe and Jane Roe Doe

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  66. Cheryl, about the catacomb pictures and early Church baptism: Here is an interesting quote from the Didache a Christian instruction book dated between 60 to 100 AD:
    “And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.” http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
    This would indicate (living water probably meaning natural source water, like a river) that immersion was the first choice, then if that was not possible there were other options, with pouring water on the head as the last option.
    This link has a couple of the early Church baptismal images:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_baptism

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  67. Thanks, Kim. I may go with the last option. I have a “two-part” title on them, and didn’t want the “technical” part (that they are the love letters) to get too long.

    Re baptism: I’ve heard both, that “baptism” means immersion and that it doesn’t. I suppose it depends at least partly on who is doing the translating!

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  68. And I think the fact that Scripture doesn’t go into any real specific detail about ‘how’ baptism is to be done provides the church with some freedom in the matter.

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  69. I haven’t been on the blog since Friday, so Happy Birthday, Chas! Hope it was a good one! I, too, thoroughly enjoy your posts and definitely remember you were the first to welcome me to this site. It was a Saturday and pretty quiet around here. I’d been lurking for a long time–almost a year, when I decided to post on WMB. Chas responded with a hearty welcome shortly after I posted.

    Re: Baptism: I was baptized as an infant by sprinkling in an Episcopalian church. I like the idea of immersion at an age where the child is making the decision–but that’s not how our church does it. They sprinkle and do both infant baptism and then grades 3 and up. Becca wants to be baptized now and I’m trying to convince them to let her be baptized in October at the next scheduled baptism since she should be in third grade by her birthday and therefore meets the age requirement. She didn’t start kindergarten until she was 6 b/c her fine motor skills were terrible and she’s quite small for her age. Even now, being a year older than her classmates, she’s still one of the smallest kids in the class. Last year, there was just one girl who was shorter than her. Anyway–it was a good decision to hold her back, for lots of reasons, but I do feel she knows her heart and she really desires to be baptized and doesn’t want to wait a year to do it. I think this is a weird policy. I don’t like it!

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  70. Well, we’re home from Crystal Beach. We stayed at the new beach of house of a friend of Hubby’s. It was quite nice. Becca had a a blast. Our hosts were hospitable. And yet, I didn’t really enjoy myself. This is because the homeowners are shallow people. They live at the very top of their means and are overly concerned with social climbing. They drop names, trying to impress. I don’t know any of the supposedly prestigious people anyway, so I’m not sure why all the name dropping, but….it gets old real quick. I heard about all the various fundraisers they attend and how much money they spent where–I’m just not impressed by that kind of talk. It’s weird, b/c they attend our church, but they don’t seem to embrace Christianity. They don’t pray before meals, the man cursed up a storm (much to my chagrin as well as that of Becca, who innocently said, “Mom, I’ve never heard a lot of the words he’s saying. Are they bad?”), and, it made me sad for their kids. They have a 13 year old son who goes to Bible study on Wednesday nights with my older daughter and he seems like a sweet kid. But, he seems sad. The dad also drinks too much beer. Of course, I’m a little sensitive about that. I’m just really glad to be home.

    School starts in exactly one week. 😦 😦 😦 Can you tell I’m sad about this? It’s been so much fun to have my kids home with me. I’m sad about this time being over. I feel like I’ve been on vacation with them the entire summer. Now it’s back to reality!

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  72. Karen O: Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I’m not sure I could handle the responsibility of homeschooling. I’m great when it comes to having fun with my kids, but not as effective at scheduling and forcing them to do things they don’t want to do. Besides, my husband doesn’t think homeschooling is best for kids–(we disagree on this) and therefore, it’s not really an option.

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  73. Karen O: Part of my sadness is that it gets so hectic once school starts. Becca has piano on Mondays, drama on Tuesdays and art on Wednesday. Older daughter rides on M/T/Th/F and has Bible study/youth group Wednesday night and math tutoring on Sunday afternoon. That schedule (mainly b/c of the horse) leaves very little time in the evenings for just hanging out. And I am a true introvert and need time to decompress and like for Becca to be able to have spontaneous playdates. Unfortunately, most kids in this neighborhood are even more scheduled than mine and are rarely available for spontaneous playdates, so I guess that’s not a realistic loss. I don’t know how people do it with five and six kids (or more). That’s impressive!

    6 arrows: I have great admiration for you, being the mother of six children.

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  76. Ann, that’s kind of you to say. Only by the grace of God can I mother these children I’ve been given, and this mom certainly needs His grace every day!

    I think Karen has a good idea regarding thinking about cutting back on some non-family activities. I used to teach piano to more children than my own, and it was staggering to learn of the sheer number of activities most of those children were involved in. Families were very stressed, running here and there virtually all week long, and the children frequently did not, IMHO, reach their true potential in anything they tried their hand at because they were spread so thin. They were barely meeting minimal requirements (and sometimes not even that), and for many of them, even if they had a sense of duty to do what was required of them, they didn’t always derive a lot of joy from it after the initial excitement of starting something new.

    I’m a firm believer in trying to identify what is a child’s natural bent, and working faithfully to build on the raw talent God has given in that area, pursuing excellence to the glory of God. Too many activities, and it becomes very hard to go much beyond the level they can naturally achieve without much effort.

    Of course, we don’t always know where a child’s true bent lies, and so I’m not against some experimentation with different activities. I think the problem is that most kids are in too many activities at once. I think it’s better for a young child to have one activity, rather than many, and stay with it for a reasonable length of time to determine whether the child and the activity are a good fit. If not, then try something else if it seems the child may have some leanings in a different direction. Or do no extra-curricular activities for a while and simply observe how she uses her free time. Their interests can change over time, and it helps us as parents, I think, to take time to observe our children so that we can guide them wisely. It’s hard to observe well when we’re caught up in a frenetic pace.

    My two cents. 😉

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  77. Ann, in my personal experience there are several reasons that parents of large families “handle it.” One is simply that the kids have other children and don’t need a lot of other social activities . . . and also the parents don’t have the luxury of even trying to fit in such busy schedules, so they don’t. Another is that parents of one or two children frequently try to bend over backward to accommodate each child equally and fairly (e.g., if one child likes Taco Bell and one likes Arby’s, you’ll go through both drive-throughs on the way home), but in larger families the children have to “fit” the family and not have the family bend to them all the time. Small families may try to reason with a child who is having a temper tantrum because he didn’t get his way; in large families, the kids pretty much have to cooperate, because no one is going to put the whole family on hold to pamper one child. (I’m not saying your family has this issue; not all small families do–I know that the family of which I am stepmother did not accept that kind of nonsense–but I see mothers of one or two deal with such things all the time. Like what to do if teenage Susie insists that Mommy has to pack her (Susie’s) suitcase for the trip because Susie doesn’t have time, but then Susie gets mad because Mommy packed it wrong–mothers of six or eight children don’t have time for this level of laziness or self-centeredness, and such habits just don’t develop in the first place.)

    (For the record, I’m from a large family and all my married siblings have large families . . . so marrying a man from a family with two children who only had two children means cultural adjustments quite often, even though my husband was a good disciplinarian and the children weren’t spoiled. It is still a different mind-set.)

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  78. Ann, I was also going to comment on your homeschooling comment, but I don’t have time right now. I’ll probably get back to you with some encouragement on that note tomorrow! 🙂 Have a good night.

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  79. Baptism means complete immersion. Two reasons.

    1. The Episcopalians bought our old wooden church. (First Baptist Church of Downey, CA) They then added some nice stained glass windows. Then Knotts Berry Farm bought it and moved it to the Farm (Theme Park). Next time you are there, go look. One of the windows show Jesus being baptized by John. Jesus is standing in the Jordan River while John is pouring water over his head from a bowl.

    Now why would anyone go stand in a river to have water poured over his head from a bowl?

    2. I can remember my mother saying to me, “Put the dishes into the water and wash them in the water, not on the tile next to the sink.” You don’t pour water over dirty dishes to wash them, you put them in the sink. You let them soak while washing some of them.

    A little common sense will show you the meaning of baptism. Did you ever see a grave covered by “Sprinkling” dirt over the body/coffin?

    Isn’t Baptism compared to a “Second Birth?” When a baby is supposed to come out, doesn’t the water break? Does this water dribble or flood? Was the baby floating in water or just a few drops?

    This is one of those things that Baptists got right.

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  80. Ann, I know what you mean about just having time with the kids. I raised four and we didn’t have other kids over very often. They spent time together and had adventures. Now they are all still great friends. One year three were in soccer and the other one and I were refs. Craziest time I ever spent and would never do that again. That was the only sport we did, so it made for only one hectic season.

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