123 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 5-20-20

  1. I’m off for my semi-annual blood work. I made an appt. so I don’t have to wait long in the waiting room.

    I hope……

    See ya’s later……

    ———–

    Here’s how desperate people in my neighborhood are for some excitement….

    The Met-Ed guy is installing a new street light, the much brighter LED kind. Half the block is out on their porches watching. 🙂

    Can you tell we don’t get out much? 🙂

    Liked by 7 people

  2. Will they do an antibody test on your blood Aj? I do not love needles 😊
    We kind of like to watch paint dry around here lately…watching someone change a litebulb might be fun though…how many Met-Ed guys did it take to change the bulb? 😂

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  3. Kare, I’m sorry you don’t feel like you can mention what you are learning in your reading. This should be a community where we do feel free to interact, especially in terms of what we are learning about the Lord.

    That doesn’t mean I think we should start just “being nice” and not mention when a Christian leader is in gross error or unrepented sin. It wouldn’t be “nice” at all if one of us started talking about how wonderful Bill Gothard is and Roscuro kept quiet about what she knows in order to let us be a peaceful community. The peace and purity of the church are both important–and interconnected.

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  4. Nancy Jill, at least six. Two to drive each truck, one to operate the bucket, one to be in the bucket, and that leaves two to stand around and do nothing. Now that is the LEAST. More be required if traffic needs to be stopped.

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  5. I have lost 3 pounds since Mr. P started eating healthy. This morning we had a discussion on real butter vs I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter. He said he understood but didn’t want to wait on the real butter to get soft enough to spread. I fixed that. Several years ago I bought a pottery butter crock. It has a jar on the bottom to put salt water and you pack the butter into the inverted “flower pot” looking top. It sits on the counter and you always have spreadable butter.

    Because there is always a Youtube video for everything…

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  6. It wouldn’t be “nice” at all if one of us started talking about how wonderful Bill Gothard is and Roscuro kept quiet about what she knows in order to let us be a peaceful community.

    So was it “nice” to bring up and name names in a disagreement that hasn’t been mentioned for weeks?

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  7. I see my yellow clover flower made it. Someone said it’s called “sheep sour” and is edible. Mrs. L. has been picking the clover and dandelion leaves in our yard for salads.

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  8. That is such a delicate flower Peter. So if it is called sheep sour does that mean sheep do not like it? And is it sour? I need to find more natural greens to put in salads to make it more interesting to eat 😊

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  9. My mom called the flower sheep sorrel, and yes, the plant is edible (sweet and sour).

    Mumsee, what does repentance look like? It depends on the sin. A one-time private sin (e.g., losing your temper when your brother teases you) might involve private repentance; a repeated, public sin certainly might involve public repentance. (I say “might” because being the town drunk probably can’t meaningfully involve public repentance, but for a pastor or other Christian leader in the public eye, it would.) What do you think it looks like?

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  10. I believe the Gotthard bit fit the discussion. But again, what is the point? We want to bring people into a right relationship with Christ. Ravi is no longer influencing people, though his books and such will remain so if there is a caution there, theological, what is it? God uses imperfect vessels. At least He does in my house. If the guy was alive, pursuing some sort of correction would be useful if needed. If his words are leading people away from God, speak up.

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  11. Peter, I wasn’t “bringing up the Gothard argument” (I’m pretty sure we all understand that he erred greatly) but using a relevant, understood example of someone with firsthand knowledge of an issue.

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  12. Repentance…..total surrender, remorse for past wrongs, turning away from the past looking forward to a new day in Christ. Forgiveness is a sweet balm to the soul……how thankful am I for Christ who covered my failings and sin….no turning back ❤️

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  13. Cheryl, I think I understand how you have the feelings you have about RZ. From what you’ve said. I think you more than anyone else here have a right to have felt duped by RZ. You invested time, energy, and money into him and the ministry. But I have never heard you mention anything about this, including about the book you did not get to edit, until the day we heard of his death. Most people here have had positive experiences with him. It just seems the timing is wrong to be so laser focused on the negatives. It is distasteful to me. A little negative goes a long way, especially since you are not given the whole picture as God has been given. Just because he did a nondisclosure and paid someone to shutup, from my perspective, does not automatically make him guilty. It may mean he wanted to keep people focused on Jesus instead of on some unseemly juicy gossip. Maybe he felt the payoff was a reasonable price to pay for that purpose. It sounds like that you are acting in God’s place of judgment at his death. It somehow seems wrong in my mind. This is my take on it. Please forgive me if in your mind I can not join you in tearing him and the ministry down on the occasion of his death. I am rejoicing that despite the sins we all have that God made a way for all of us unworthy souls to be in heaven with Jesus.

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  14. NancyJill,

    Yes, they will test for antibodies. I see the Dr. next week via tele-doc and then he will send the script to the lab. I will then return to the lab for whichever one (there’s several) he orders. The lab and Dr. say it’s best that way, because then insurance will pay for test if the Dr. thinks I had C-19. I’d pay to know either way, but I’d rather have them pay. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Mumsee, bigger principle in the passage. Repentance is not just a full stop, but also a reverse – Luke 3:7-14. Covetous tax collector not only stops cheating, he also gives his wealth away, unlike the ruler in the previous chapter – Luke 18:19-25. Repentance bears fruit.

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  16. True both. We confess and turn. We make restitution.
    Don’t necessarily agree he gave his wealth away. Part, for sure, we don’t know how much. But the fruit is not the repentance, it is the result of the repentance.

    Liked by 3 people

  17. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I will tell this story.
    One of my agents, and by default I was recently sued. She represented the seller and another agent represented the buyer. When I looked at the home inspection report everything they were suing over was right there in the report. THEIR agent didn’t address it and my feeling was they were suing the wrong agent. Our errors and omissions insurance sent an attorney to speak with us and agreed with my assessment. She did warn that our insurance company would likely settle. They could spent $15,000 to make it all go away or they could spend $100,000 to prove we were innocent.
    I recently found out the insurance company settled.

    You also see this sometimes when a person is accused of a crime. The public defender often encourages this to plead guilty to a lesser charge to make it all go away.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/innocence-is-irrelevant/534171/

    I have no opinion of Ravi as I am not familiar with his work and have as far as I know never read any of his books. I heard his name in passing from people I respect. I just didn’t have the desire to dig any deeper.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have a couple of things I have done in the past that I wouldn’t like spread across the news and certainly wouldn’t appreciate people who don’t know what amends I have made or not made to discuss it and form negative opinions and speak ill of me.
    I probably should remove myself from this discussion now.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. And (from 11:06) that is where it becomes difficult for those not closely and personally in relationship with someone to know the fuller story there. A public figure (and Christian leader) might be a bit different in that respect, but we still are not in an inner, personal circle what would provide insight into how sins are being dealt with (or not). And even then, ultimately, God alone knows the full extent of that inner work.

    Kare, I was sad to read your comment last night and it is a reminder that we always remember to be speaking the truth in love. The written word falls short, often times, in that realm as much as we try.

    I do agree with Cheryl’s 8:46 comments (The peace and purity of the church are both important–and interconnected).

    The issues with RZ were brought up a couple years ago here, I believe? I remember now reading comments here, but had forgotten the details and, as I said, I’ve not followed him and I’ve not personally read anything written about it. The information was all new to me.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. I pondered over an hour (during lunch) about posting this. It doesn’t amount to a thing in this serious discussion we’re having today.
    But here goes.

    I visited Kim’s posting of June Carter Cash’s rendition of “Meeting in the Air” about five times yesterday. not just because of June, but I like the song.
    So? Today, that is the song I carry around in my head.

    It’s an important concept. I don'[t know how it will be. But I know who’s in charge.
    (I sit here thinking of a dozen other things I could say about this. But I’ll let it be and you can fill in the blanks for yourself.)

    Liked by 5 people

  20. Though I may have read something at the time of the earlier blog discussion and just forgotten about it until it came up again yesterday.

    I will get back to work today, the knee continues to feel better but not great, there’s still some pain with certain movements and during the night.

    As for my ambitious birthday plans for Carol, I texted her friend from her past church last night to get his thoughts, he said he’d call me Thursday. There are a lot of possible problems with my idea, not surprisingly — including having more than a couple of us go up there when there are still concerns about social distancing (just among the well-wishers going — Carol, if it can be arranged, and that’s also an open question, would be behind a window at the facility, with us on the outside). It’s also a very long drive, however, and many of her former church connections are older. I offered the idea of car pooling but, again, that places people in very close proximity with someone else and those who are older and more vulnerable could not really be expected to do that. Sigh.

    As for setting up a zoom meeting instead, we again have the issue of older folks maybe not having access to that technology.

    It all comes down to low-tech phone calls on the day of her birthday (and maybe I could still find a way by myself to go up there and wave & see her from the outside).

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Chas, your comment — “I don’t know how it will be. But I know who’s in charge” — reminds me of something our pastor frequently says: We may at times be poor followers of our Master, but we know who our Master is. Lord and Savior, both.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. It is very difficult/impossible to know somebody else’s repentance. If we are in the circle of friends it becomes more clear and the circle of close friends, more so. We in the far bleachers do not have a clear view which is why several yesterday mentioned looking at this through grace. There but for the grace of God, go I, as Kim just mentioned.

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  23. I brought it up originally about three years ago, yes. It was news to me at the time and was seeing if anyone else had heard about it. I did not intend to bring it up again yesterday, but the obituaries written did, and then the discussion of the wider principle in publicizing wrongdoing ensued. I mentioned a name yesterday that may have been the reason why obituaries mentioned those issues, that of Jean Vanier. Vanier was the creator of the L’Arche communities for the disabled. When he passed away last year, he was lauded by the wider Christian community, Catholic and Protestant alike, as a modern day saint, as his books were widely read by both, and even the secular world had good things to say (Vanier was the son of the beloved former Governor General of Canada, Georges Vanier and his wife Pauline, so secular Canadian media had a especial interest in paying tribute). Several months later, the results of an investigation launched after his death were released, and it was revealed that Vanier had used his respected position within the L’Arche communities to abuse at least six different women who were vulnerable. There was no doubt he had done so deliberately, and not in moments of weakness, using spiritual abuse to convince the women to submit to him: https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/opinion-story/9874869-rosemary-ganley-hard-lessons-from-the-jean-vanier-revelations/. Those who had lauded him were stunned at the revelation, staggered by how someone who had seemed so good and saintly could have been a predator underneath. I think those writing the obituaries in this case were seeking to stem a similar dramatic fall by admitting the faults up front.

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  24. At some point, we have to trust our brothers and sisters to hold each other accountable in their circles. If we think somebody is off and they are a public speaker, we can certainly inquire, or teach as in Priscilla and Acquilla. But where does it become spreading lies about a brother as mentioned yesterday in one of Roscuro’s references? We need to be careful.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. Janice, 9:54, no, I never did mention the book I was disappointed not to edit. You may or may not have noticed that I have never mentioned the names of any authors I’ve edited. As a rule I don’t do so. I made an exception yesterday (mentioning an author I could have edited) because it was relevant to the discussion. But yes, we have discussed the scandals before yesterday. And when Roscuro initially mentioned it, I was skeptical. But I did my own research and was convinced.

    Kim, that’s useful background information–thank you. The evidence that there was “something there” (some guilt on his part) regarding the woman does go beyond the payment, however, including the note he wrote to her that he would kill himself if she told her husband–I’ve seen that one.

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  26. Michelle, I first discovered IZ as Israel Kamakawiwo-le was known, due to a CBC radio documentary a decade ago and it was his rendition of ‘Over the Rainbow’ that caught my attention.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Re repentance: I think true repentance will seek to have confession that’s as broadly known as the sin was known. That’s probably not always possible or practical.

    But let’s take one piece in the current instance. Zacharias has claimed that he studied quantum physics at the University of Cambridge under physicist Dr. John Polkinghorne. This is an outright lie. Yet based on the way “speaking circuits” work (you can basically give the same prepared speech many times because you’re speaking to different people each time, and key parts of “your story” come up many times even when you speak again at the same venue), it is not impossible that he said that hundreds of times, to thousands of people in all. I’m not saying he did say this hundreds of times, but he definitely said it many times, so let’s say he said it only ten times, but in those ten times five thousand people heard him say it, and more hear it by watching on YouTube.

    Is it “repentance” to simply stop making that claim? Remember, this wasn’t a simple exaggeration but a known untruth–a lie. It seems to me that repentance for a public, repeated lie is an official statement that you lied and that you recognize it hurts the preaching of the Gospel when preachers cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

    Does it matter if unbelievers see us concerned about the lies of politicians (such as Bill Clinton) but unconcerned about the lies of “one of our own”? I think it matters greatly. Scripture holds teachers to a higher standard, and so should we. It’s OK if you don’t read the man anyway so you don’t personally care about the details–but it really does matter.

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  28. Holding fussy baby…

    Cheryl at 1:51: I like the first paragraph especially.

    Repentance does seem to require acknowledgement and remorse and apology and turning from.

    And we do need to call people on stuff. But when we are distanced from the situation we cannot really assess if those steps were taken. And after somebody has died, I see no benefit to it. Again if false teaching is there, address it.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. Maybe my memory fails on the previous discussion of RZIM or maybe it was during busy tax season when I had little time to read the blog, but I seriously did not ever recall hearing any of that. Atlanta is a big place so you’d think I would have heard from somewhere before yesterday.

    On the subject of Honorary Doctorates, I never gave that much thought in the past. Until yesterday I thought it meant that a person was so well educated on their own and they had done years of field work so that they had the equivalent knowledge and skill of a person who went the purely academic route. I suppose that having gone the homeschooling route for twelve years, I could see advantages of an alternative route to education that allows greater focus and specialized experience in some work that is needed yet not otherwise given academic credit. So I don’t personally see that an Honorary Doctorate should not include the honor of being called a Dr. Some people are stuck on such labels and use them to put other people down. I am not sure from what was said about Ravi if he was putting people down with the title or perhaps raising himself up to the level of people who would put him down without credentials. Maybe he was doing the Paulcthing to become all things to all people.
    I don’t know, but God does. So yesterday I feel like I got a timely lesson on Honorary Doctorates. They do not in anyway cheapen the value of an academic PhD. For either achievement I see people who have worked hard and made sacrifices for their dedication to their endeavor.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Mumsee, after someone has died, usually their influence doesn’t continue much except in their own families. When a person has written multiple books, has lots of speeches on YouTube, and when the organization that bears his name (and that refused to hold him accountable) continues, that isn’t the case.

    Nevertheless, I’ve had my say and I do have other things to do today, so I’ll let that be it.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Janice, sometimes an honorary doctorate honors a lifetime achievement in a certain field–I seem to recall that Thomas Edison had one of those. But when a person has 10 or 20 of them, generally it means that institutions want some association with this person; they invite him to come and receive an honorary doctorate, and to speak, and their college is now in the news as having so and so speak and receive a degree.

    From what I’ve read, the institution that grants the degree will often call the person “Dr. So and So,” but in some circles it’s considered “poor form” to use it otherwise. But I have no dog in that fight, and I do know that within Christian academic circles, people with honorary doctorates often get called “Dr.” So I don’t have a strong opinion either way on that one, as long as the person doesn’t pretend it’s an “earned” doctorate.

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  32. My belated thought also is that he endured a cancer struggle in his last months or years. Only a guess, but I suspect this was a very humbling period all the way around for him, and God will bring us up short like that so we don’t become too confident in our own righteousness.

    I believe he was a believer and so my sense, though I don’t know, but viewing it in grace, is that he did repent and that this entire period was probably one of many tears though ultimately fruitful in God’s economy (and hopefully ending in full restoration with his Father well before his death).

    Liked by 4 people

  33. I always peel ginger, but then I am one who peels tomatoes, apples, carrots, cucumbers, potatoes and other things. I suppose it depends on how it is to be used, though. If it is to be removed from the pot before being ingested, not being peeled would be fine. This is just my personal preference. Some ginger would be too tough to not peel. Remember that ginger may raise blood pressure.

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  34. ginger discussion — I’m out

    Took a work break by walking in the backyard, checked out the plumbago (growing and rooting well, spreading out, no blossoms right now); still need to trim that potted Mexican sage; still need to transfer that and other flowers from their potted homes of long-standing into the ground.

    With a 3-day weekend coming up, I’m hoping my knee is healed enough to do some of that very light gardening work. It’s a long process with this barren backyard.

    I also picked up dog poop while I was out there. It’s much easier to stay on top of that particular chore now that I’m working from home, it was always dark by the time I got home from work (from where we used to be located over a year ago now). Now, it’s done on daily backyard “breaks.”

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Pondering that couple in the RZ tale as akin to the Chaldeans, instruments used by God in judgement of his people gone astray, a wake-up call. But that’s pure speculation.

    OK, back to ginger, apologies.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Now don’t make fun of the Met-Ed guy. He (only one) was very efficient. He took the entire arm with the light off and put a new arm with the new lights on. He was done in 10 minutes, and a minute at the start and finish was him waiting on his slow boom truck to lift and lower the bucket. I was impressed.

    Must be non-union. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  37. “ginger discussion — I’m out”

    That cracked me up. 🙂 Most people probably didn’t get the reference. 🙂

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  38. It’s been a long time since I got that one. Seems like we’re getting higher numbers of daily posts now that we’re more stuck at home.

    Liked by 2 people

  39. Mumsee asked earlier what’s going on in Michigan.

    We had a lot of rain the past two days. Fortunately our sump pump kept working and our basement stayed dry. The sun’s out today and hopefully the temporary pond in our back yard will be gone within a few days.

    The big news is around Midland, 100 miles north of here. Two upstream dams failed late yesterday, putting 10,000 people in an evacuation zone. The governor reported last night an estimate that downtown Midland could end up under 9 feet of water. I don’t know if that has come to pass. The latest reporting indicates that water level is about as high as it’s going to get now and should start going down late tonight.

    This CNN article has some pictures and a nice map showing the river and the city, along with a worst-case flood zone. https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/michigan-dam-flooding/index.html

    We don’t have family or close friends near Midland, but have indirect connections to a couple people who have “marked themselves safe” on Facebook. Other than that we have no inside info.

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  40. NancyJill, I think Ginger was rescued eventually. And Gilligan. The Skipper, too, the millionaire and his wife, the Professor and Maryann.

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  41. I’ve had quite a day. I’ve been reprimanded (correctly and gently) by my pastor, horrified others by announcing I’m getting my teeth cleaned next week, and am currently stuck in a storm off the coast of Finland.

    Oh, and while taking a walk discovered my cat lounging around a block over. The man working in the driveway was surprised I knew her. “She’s here all the time. She likes to play with the cat across the street.”

    I told him her name and pointed at my house.

    We’re having pizza for dinner. I’d better put the dough in the sun before returning to the ship.

    Liked by 2 people

  42. I took it as DJ referencing yet another, a slang usage of gingers, since the food and Gilligan’s Island’s were already mentioned.

    But I could be wrong and just watch too much tv. Perhaps she could clarify. 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  43. And speaking of hair coloring…..

    So now it’s a thing to dye your hair grey when you’re like, in your, like 20’s? It looks as silly as when a man my age takes a gallon of “just for men” to his head on Saturday night, and shows up for church Sunday with jet black hair. Sure you could….. but should you…..? Really….? You run the risk of looking silly. Everybody saw you with grey hair Wednesday. I don’t think they’re buyin’ it…

    Grey and silver hair is for the seasoned veterans, who’ve earned it.

    Just have patience, you’ll have it before you know it. I got that down. 🙂

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  44. I took the comment from DJ as a “Well I never!….” kinda comment, because she has red hair…..

    And DJ is savvy enough, has a sense of humor, and I’m sure is aware of the pejorative use, so I took it as a little self-deprecating type humor…

    You people are a tough crowd. It’s not nearly as funny if I have to explain it.

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  45. My husband and I went for a walk, and ended up going farther than we sometimes do. On the return, ahead of us on the path was a young couple we befriended a week or two ago, when for 30 or 45 minutes we exchanged information on the best local places to see birds, and I was able to show them a green heron at “my” pond. After we left that encounter, my husband said it was the first time to talk face to face to anyone (other than me) for more than two months, and it was quite refreshing.

    Anyway, tonight they looked up and saw us, and he said, “They’re waving at us. No, they’re gesturing for us to come. Hurry ahead and see what they see–you can move faster than I do.” I slowed down as I reached them so as not to scare whatever they saw. Turned out they had found three screech owls, a red mother and two gray juveniles (those are the two color forms of the species). I got photos, and my husband shared his e-mail address so I can send them photos later. Very cool sighting, my first owlets.

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  46. I thought DJ was referencing her hair colour.

    One of my cousins got a streak of gray hair in her teens. This was the early 90s, and she was into all the extreme fashions of the day (big hoops earrings, frizzy hair, black eyeshadow – you get the picture). She was quite delighted with that grey streak, as it made her look even more extreme. She had a gift for the dramatic. She put her parents through many difficult years, with drugs and alcohol and bad boyfriends, but she eventually came back to the Lord. She still has a dramatic flair, though these days she dyes her hair to cover the gray.

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  47. Phos: I’ve mentioned this before. But Elvera had some grey hair at 25. Fact is, she had three colors. Dominant brown, but a streak of red and a streak of grey.
    Chas

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  48. Well the things one can learn on the blog…thanks Peter! Seems as though “Ginger” attended Miami University after high school…just a few miles away from my hometown!!! She’s a democrat, 86, and she lives in New York…..
    I was a redhead until I grew old…now it is kind of blondish/grayish/strawberry tones…old faded hair is what it is! But at least no one calls me carrots any longer and boys don’t yell at me “I’d rather be dead than red on the head”. 🙃

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  49. So, today was the first day of the cave being opened. Since it is right next to Illinois, all the customers I talked to were from there. We didn’t have many, but several families of 4 to 6 throughout the day. Anyway, all of them said they needed to get away from their homes and were glad Missouri is open, since nothing in Illinois is open yet, except “essential” businesses. There are a lot of people frustrated with the IL governor these days.

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  50. okay, I did my five miles. Now I can rest.
    I emailed someone today, a supporter, to ask about a gift I wanted to give them, but wanted them to have a choice. They just emailed me back and said that they just came here today!

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  51. I’ve been very slow to “grey.” But maybe because of my natural hair color, it just blended in better, which is my stylist’s theory — my dad, from whom I get my red hair, also never went completely grey.

    My hair isn’t nearly as red as it once was, it’s more brownish, but that’s what happened to my dad’s hair color also. It does still look red in the sunlight.

    Real Estate Guy called and is stopping by tomorrow to check out the bedroom ceiling light, see if we can get that working again.

    I have a port meeting to listen in on in the morning & a couple other stories to do; it should be a busy yet not horrible day, work-wise.

    Three-day weekend ahead, yay.

    Knee continues to feel better. Not perfect or pain-free, but truly better.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. oh, my, when I come to do catch up on the blog at the end of the day, I usually read the posts from the end and go up. Nothing is making any sense at all.
    Try again tomorrow.
    And Michelle is off on a ship in a storm!!

    Liked by 1 person

  53. On the down side, we’re expecting furlough or other bad news to come before June, thinking news-side (which is me) may be hit this time.

    Liked by 1 person

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