46 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 6-13-17”

  2. Morning, Chas. Hmm…. I should probably make a dental appointment.
    Just got home from graduation, very special.
    Ran errands and went to school today. I got the room all ready for my friend who is coming to teach. It is truly ready for her. As one who has taught a grade where I didn’t know where anything was and no one else did either, I know my room is ready.

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  6. Good Morning! That is a beautiful butterfly…looking at it I wonder how a creepy squiggly caterpillar turned into something so amazingly beautiful…there’s a lesson in there somewhere!
    Stay at home day for me today…clean clean and more cleaning…preparing for 12 neighborhood ladies to come over tomorrow evening…and why did I volunteer my house?! 🙂

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  8. If you read 6 Arrow’s post yesterday with the information about an ELCA church, you will totally understand why I always clarify that we are LCMS (Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod). We are not even close to that description and it drives me crazy when they are described as “Lutheran” without clarifying that they do not represent all Lutherans.

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  9. Good Morning Everyone.
    I am going to have a difficult conversation with Guy sooner rather than later. This is what I want, but the conversation is still going to be difficult. We have a college intern this summer so I am not leaving him completely without help. I will also try to help the transition. I do owe him that. I just can’t let him stay in the way of my goals.
    This probably should also go on the Prayer Thread for me to have the correct words to say.

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  10. Kim, You have a good heart. But don’t let anything get in the way of your progress.
    You don’t “owe” him anything. But don’t go away mad.
    Leave. But leave as friends.

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  11. Linda, we have the same issue with Presbyterians. Say that word only, and people think of PC(USA). And no, we aren’t! So I generally tell people “Presbyterian–conservative Presbyterians.” I hate even just to say PCA, since not all of them are conservative. Speaking of which, Chas, you can pray for the general assembly happening in your town this week. Some pretty important decisions will be made this week, some of which may determine whether the PCA stays intact as a denomination or splits. Things like codifying “marriage” as between a man and a woman, as something binding (to strengthen any legal cases in the future) and not “suggested.” (It is in a part of the BCO that wasn’t made binding, with no one at the time, of course, foreseeing a specific need of that sort.) Also discussions on the role of women in the church, and I’m not sure what other details since we ended up not attending this year. I just know the conservatives aren’t happy with some of the direction, and this may be important in decision making.

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  12. Linda, exactly. I am a member of another conservative Lutheran church body (WELS), and what the ELCA stands for isn’t anywhere near what we believe, either. That particular church I mentioned yesterday does not even proclaim on their website that Jesus is the Son of God, our Savior. Notice how God is identified as “the welcoming God” and Jesus Christ apparently is no more than a teacher and a good example.

    The ReconcilingWorks: Lutherans for Full Participation link said what I was afraid it would say:

    …ReconcilingWorks: Lutherans for Full Participation has advocated for the full welcome, inclusion, and equity of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) Lutherans in all aspects of the life of their Church, congregations, and community.

    [Emphasis mine.]

    I take it the “full…inclusion…in all aspects of the life of their Church” means they can be members, can take communion, can serve in positions of leadership in the Church. There is nothing to suggest that Jesus died for our sins, and the unrepentant need to turn to Him.

    I saw this on the Events/Membership Call page at the Reconciling site that pretty much says it all:

    ReconcilingWorks will be hosting a number of Regional Tours as a time to gather, worship, celebrate, learn, and vision about what is next for the work of welcome, inclusion, and celebration of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) people and their families in the Lutheran communion.

    Celebration.

    And that “Lutheran communion” part…sorry to include that. That is so not what every Lutheran believes.

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  13. In happier news, we went to a wedding on Saturday where the Gospel was proclaimed in all its truth and purity. So refreshing to see the young couple (my best friend’s daughter and a young man from my parents’ church who is studying to be a pastor) standing up there speaking their vows — two young people who love the Lord. A great blessing to be in attendance.

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  14. Good morning. I tried to write a post right after seven, but it got lost. I needed some coffee…that was the problem.

    The butterfly is beautiful. I saw one yesterday while I was out mowing. It was the first I have seen this year.

    Mostly I think people associate being Baptist with Southern Baptist. The more liberal Baptists must have to make a distinction. Then there are the more conservative Baptists like my brother who feel the Southern Baptist have gone wrong by using more rock style music. It gets confusing. And then there are the Westboro types who all the rest would choose to disown.

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  15. Janice, I don’t know what other people think when they hear “Baptist,” but I definitely don’t think Southern Baptist. I tend to think fundamentalist, rebaptizing, independent churches that probably teach dispensationalism, that call their elders “deacons,” and that have little outside accountability even if they are in a denomination. (I know that none of that is true of all baptists, except the rebaptizing part.) But the “denomination” part of “Baptist” seems almost irrelevant, since each church stands alone.

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  16. When one says “Christian” it needs to be defined, since many people will say they are because they go to church once a year.

    As for Baptists- I believe there are as many different baptist sects as there are other denominations/associations. We attended a Reformed Baptist church in Iowa when we lived there, but they made sure we knew they were part of the RBCA, not one of the other Reformed Baptist groups.

    So it is next to impossible to label what church you are a part of without defining which branch or sub-sect it is. Even Catholics have different branches, and members of the ones that aren’t Roman Catholic have to define their differences.

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  17. Oops! I looked it up and it’s ARBCA- Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America. Can’t get that wrong or you’ll be asked to leave. [/sarcasm]

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  19. Speaking of music, which you were. At the church we sometimes attend but haven’t for a while as they have had flooding and a significant mold problem and I have people with asthma and allergies, the music was sometimes blasted through the speakers and it was painful to hear. So I would just hunker down and try to close my ears without being too obvious. Other times it was just one of the piano players and the people. The other church we attend, some kind of Baptist, usually just has a lady lead the singing with no music added but when they add music, it is through some sort of device and not very loud. I enjoy both the singing alone and the piano, the others I prefer not to have.

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  20. And it has nothing to do with being for or against musical instruments in the church. Just what they do and if they have a piano player that week in one, and because they don’t have a piano or a player in the other.

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  21. Beautiful (and yes, cool — Cheryl, your fingers are missed) pic of the butterfly. It’s that time of year. 🙂

    I also typically say ‘conservative’ Presbyterian to clarify. Thanks for the heads up, Cheryl, on the General Assembly issues for your bunch (Cheryl and I are in different conservative Presbyterian denominations, just to confuse matters even more).

    I woke up today thinking, “Oh, it’s Thursday.” Then I woke up a little bit more and said to myself, “No, it’s only Wednesday.” Then, I completely woke up and realized … it’s just Tuesday. This will be a slow week.

    Coffee this morning, I missed having any on Monday. Good luck at the dentist, Chas.

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  22. I suppose both Cheryl and I would fall under the “Reformed Presbyterian” as a general category listed in the NYT article linked to by Debra on the political thread.

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  23. I am teaching a class to new agents tomorrow and Friday. I will have the conversation with Guy on Thursday because that is payday and I don’t want to have to chase him for a month for what he owes me.

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  24. I agree with Peter. All the main line denominations have factions from liberal to conservative. It has been heartbreaking to be involved in trying to stem the tide and seeing the fall from biblical to unbiblical beliefs.

    No church is perfect, but some have left Christ and truth way behind. 😦 The church is in a sad state. It always puts me in mind of the statement about salt that is not useful is only good to be trampled under foot.

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  27. The church is in a sad state.

    If you mean the visible church, yes. The true church, founded on the Lord Jesus Christ is strong as ever, since He is its head. However, that church is not any particular denomination or sect, but all the true saints of God in whatever building they meet, be it building with the name Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, or independent of any organization, the members of the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is on a firm foundation.

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  30. When I hear Baptist, I think Southern Baptist.

    My dear friend Marilyn, wife of a former pastor (not the one I had a problem with), once told me about a church she knew of, or attended briefly, where the people would wear really fancy attire to services. The women would wear evening gowns! And when they had fellowship meals, they would drink their non-alcoholic drinks from wine glasses.

    (I don’t drink alcohol for personal reasons, but I do occasionally like to drink out of a fancy wine glass.)

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  34. I had a “Believers Baptism” in my current church. I was sprinkled at age twelve in a PCUSA, but was not a true believer. It seemed totally appropriate and true in my case to do the second baptism, which was the first real baptism, in my opinion..

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  36. Hi Jo!
    Did midterm exam for stats this morning. I completed all the questions, which was good because I was worried I would run out of time. Exams for Greek and Latin later this week.
    I’ve come down with a cold. It seems like it will be a minor one, but aggravating nonetheless.

    I used to be concerned about how to identify myself as a Christian. However, I have come to realize that all the reproach that the title brings cannot be disowned by changing or qualifying the title. If I want to prove that I’m different than all those who name the name of Christ but do not do the things he says, that proof must come through my conversation, to use both the archaic and modern meaning of the term. Since I changed my mindset, the term Christian, in Greek Χριστιανός (kristianos), has regained for me all the significance it held when it was first applied to the church at Antioch. As for the term Baptist, I do not hold to it as a primary identification, but it explains where I come from.

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  38. I see you people have been having interesting discussions. Kizzie, from all that I know about the history of psychological treatment, the experimental therapies to ‘cure’ homosexuality were pretty horrifying. Chemical castration was used on WWII code breaker Alan Turing, who was given injections of estrogen to take away his homosexuality – ironically, estrogen is now given to men who wish to transition. After all, those were the days when they tried insulin shock therapy for things like schizophrenia. The injections of insulin sent people’s bodies into hypoglycemic shock, which is a deadly condition. Unlike electro-convulsive therapy, which actually works for intractable depression, insulin shock therapy had no effect except to endanger the patient’s life. They also tried lobotomies for mental illness, which stripped people of their reasoning capacities. Mental illness treatment in the mid-twentieth century was the Wild West.

    Mumsee, the image of God is a quality which all humans have, since Genesis 9:6, which was after the Flood, gives that as the reason for why we cannot kill one another, while James 3:9 extends the principal to cursing other humans, since as Christ said in Matthew 5:21-22, hate of your brother is murder. However, we do need to understand that those who are not believers are spiritually dead and do not have the Holy Spirit to teach them the truth. So, on those grounds, we do not expect them to have the same standard as we do. Now, if what we do is visibly good, they may want to imitate us, which they often do. This contemporary concern about hate speech is, when one thinks about it, a secular attempt to imitate Matthew 5:21-22. Since they are trying to accomplish this righteous speech by the strength of the flesh, it has become a legalistic bugbear, with those against hate speech becoming positively Pharisaical at times. Yet that should not deter us from following Christ’s words in this area, as in every other area.

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  40. From the story: Southern Baptists are particularly eager for revival right now. Ahead of their annual convention, the denomination reported that dipping membership numbers reflect their need for more effective evangelism. Since 1990, more than 7.7 million have attended Laurie’s Harvest America events and nearly a half-million of those have made professions of faith.

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  41. And a somewhat related blog post from Veith:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2017/06/southern-baptist-numbers-are-shrinking/

    _________________________________

    Southern Baptists are holding their annual meeting in Phoenix today and tomorrow. And this largest Protestant denomination in America is having to face up to the fact that their numbers are dwindling.

    From 16.3 million members in 2003, the church body is down in members (to 15.2 million), worship attendance, and baptisms of new converts. This has been happening over a number of years, so it constitutes a trend.

    The problem isn’t that the country is turning away from conservative Christianity. The trend documented over the last several decades that conservative churches are growing, while liberal churches are declining still holds true. But not all conservative churches are growing, as Missouri Synod Lutherans and now the Baptists well know. The Assemblies of God denomination is still booming, for example.

    Not that numerical growth should be the sole criterion for assessing how a denomination is doing. Integrity and faithfulness are far more important. But the question is, if conservative churches are growing–as Dean Kelley documented in his important study back in 1972–why are some growing and some are not?

    Some are blaming the Baptists’ association with the Christian right as part of the reason for their decline. But Pentecostals went all in for Donald Trump and they are doing fine. …
    ____________________

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  42. 15.2 million is still a huge number. Revival is something of an nebulous term to begin with, and if it simply means recovering membership numbers, then it is really meaningless.

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  43. I think there is a desire for discipleship in the SBC instead of just the basic professions of faith followed by baptism. All denominations need members who grow spiritually as disciples of Jesus rather than just being pew warmers who are counted as members just for padding the rolls.

    Thank You for sharing that about Greg Laurie, Donna. That is interesting.

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  44. Roscuro – I’ve read about those kinds of “therapies”, so I wasn’t surprised to see that they were used on homosexuals. I’d also read that a certain kind of aversion therapy was used on young priests or monks to supposedly kill any sexual feelings they might have.

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