71 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 3-2-17

  1. Good Morning…it is 5:32 here….dark as pitch and I haven’t had my first sip of coffee….but it is sitting right next to me! Annie Oakley….how regal you look! 🙂

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  2. I will be taking Karen to some appointments today. I need to take care of my home chores, but I have not helped her lately and opportunity has arisen. As usual, our cluttered messy house will fall back on the to do list.

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  3. The Admiral has decided that last year we didn’t put enough drains in the back and side yard. He has a plan and has been digging the lines which are complicated because of the sprinkler system. He has bought supplies and has Youngest Son lined up to come over this weekend to help him. Sometimes he ignores the fact he has back issues and then pays the price.
    I have an out of town guest coming on the 17th for the weekend. I really need to do some deep cleaning on this house. You would think working from home I could be more organized but with both of us here it becomes a mess rather quickly. 😦
    It is also complicated because I get up early but can’t do anything because he is still asleep and knowing that he doesn’t sleep well, I don’t want to bang things around and make a lot of noise. You should here how quietly I can put kibble in the dogs dishes. Just to clarify, he has never said a word to me about making any noise. It is just the way I was raised. Now, when BG wouldn’t get her lazy hiney out of the bed I could make all sorts of noise and she would sleep right through it… 🙂

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  4. Back to Plan A and housework. Karen does not feel up for going to appointments today. I was out in the cold organizing all the recycling collection I have in the car from home and office so I could get rid of it and make room for Karen’s walker. It needed to be done, but had not been a priority. Now I am ready to get rid of it. Check that off my list.

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  5. I mentioned before that I’m using the Victory Bible Reading Plan. You read the Bible through in systematic chronological order. In it, you read the Psalms twice and each Gospel twice. An ambitious plan. What I would like to see is some appropriate Psalms inserted in places in the OT where they apply. i.e.. When Saul sends men to take David and kill him, and David escapes. It would be appropriate to insert Psalm 59. Or maybe, just insert (Read Psalm 59 here). And after 2 Samuel 12:14 “Read Psalm 51:1-17
    There are many other occasions where this would be helpful to understand the various Psalms.

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  6. That is a great idea on the Bible reading plan, Chas. I wonder if anyone has done a Bible study matching Psalms and stories? That would make a good book or Sunday School curriculum.

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  7. I’ve read a couple chronological Bibles (one online, & one “real” one that went missing), & they both inserted psalms where appropriate. That’s one of the things I liked about them.

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  8. ??????????????????
    I was going to send a picture to Aj. But forgot how. I have attached pictures to e-mail befor. But I just couldn’t get it done. I keep trying different sequences, but nothing works.
    How do I do that?

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  9. In a book review of The Shack (this isn’t about that, though), Tim Challies wrote this on forgiveness. . .

    “Nowhere in Scripture will we find the idea that we can or should forgive an unrepentant person for this kind of crime [the murder of a young child]. Rather, Scripture makes it clear that repentance must precede forgiveness.

    Without repentance there can be no forgiveness. This is true of God’s offer of forgiveness to us and, as we are to model this in our human relationships, must be true of how we offer forgiveness to others. So when, at the book’s climax, Mack cries out “I forgive you” to the murderer (who is not present and has not sought forgiveness) he cannot offer true forgiveness.

    Neither can true forgiveness exist where Mack is unable to pursue reconciliation with this man. Forgiveness makes no sense and means nothing if we require it in this way. It may make a person feel better about himself, but it cannot bring about true forgiveness and true reconciliation.”

    I agree that no true reconciliation can exist when the guilty party is not repentant (although it does depend on what the person is guilty of), but aren’t we supposed to seek to forgive anyway? Jesus didn’t seem to put a qualifier on it, except I think in Luke, but told us we are to forgive others if we want to be forgiven. Doesn’t unforgiveness grow into bitterness?

    (When I said that it depends on what a person is guilty of in whether or not true reconciliation can exist, I meant that sometimes the offense is on the minor side, & the other person may not even recognize what they’ve done, but when we forgive, we may be reconciled to the person in that we have let that offense go, & it no longer stands in the way of the relationship.)

    Now, I realize Challies did say “for this kind of crime”, but I’ve read other people say the same thing (that we don’t need to forgive if the other person doesn’t ask forgiveness) in a more general sense. But even if we narrow it down to horrific offenses such as the murder of a loved one, don’t we still need to forgive whether or not the criminal is repentant?

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  10. Michelle, I’ve always thought that preachers were unnecessarily hard on Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. While the Gospels comment that Joseph and Nicodemus were secret for fear of the Jews, the writers never censure or condemn them for their secrecy. Nicodemus, if he had tried to ask Jesus those questions in a public setting, might have been prevented from asking and getting answers; just look at the way he got shut down when he tried to put in a good word for Jesus to the Sanhedrin (John 7:50-52). By remaining silent, the two were actually well placed to be able to act when Jesus needed burial. The burial was very important, not only did it fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 53 that the Messiah would make his grave with the rich in his death, it also afforded vital evidence that Christ’s Resurrection was authentic. Only a rich man’s tomb would have a heavy stone to roll in front of the door.

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  11. We’re getting the fierce winds today that other areas have already had. Many are without power in our town, & I am praying we don’t lose ours.

    Back to the matter of forgiveness. Like me, I’m sure you’ve all heard or read stories of people who have forgiven a murderer, for instance, & their forgiveness was part of what led the offender to repentance & salvation. Or if it didn’t, it did bring healing & peace to the one who forgave.

    A friend of a friend was sexually abused by her father. Years later, the father was sent to prison for sexually abusing another young teen. Friend-of-Friend had become a Christian, & she sought to forgive her father, even visiting him in prison, & bringing him a Bible.

    When he died after a few years in prison, she was told of the transformation that had come over him, that he had apparently found faith in Christ. That has given her a measure of peace & healing.

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  12. Kizzie, your questions on forgiveness are something I’m still working out. We don’t demand personal vengeance on, say, the murderer of a family member (something we are told to leave to God); but neither do we issue a pardon to the murderer and allow him to walk free (that is for the authorities that uphold the law to determine). This link offers one perspective on forgiveness that might be helpful: https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2017/02/27/three-kinds-of-forgiveness/. In sharing the link, I’m not necessarily endorsing it – it is just food for thought.

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  13. My understanding is that forgiving someone does not mean that they don’t have to still bear the punishment (if one is warranted), but that we are releasing our own need for vengeance to God, & to the state, if necessary. I’ll take a look at the article a little later, as I’m trying to catch up on some other things in case we lose power later.

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  14. Where does Luke 23:34 “Father forgive them…..” fit in? ‘
    The Roman soldiers were just doing what Roman soldiers do.
    I presume God forgave them.
    He forgave Saul.

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  15. Good. It confuses me when I get to the part that says open and I think, I don’t want to open it, I want to attach it. But it attaches when I say open.

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  16. Kare, did your husband’s hats come out clean in your dishwasher? I did this once and was not happy with them. My husband wears a ball cap anytime he is out and about, though. (When it is not so cold that he needs a warmer hat.)

    I agree with Kizzie about forgiveness. Others may never see the need to be forgiven. That is between them and God, at that point. We are responsible for our own thoughts and actions. Forgiveness makes a difference there. It may not change a relationship or lead to anything wonderful ‘out there.’ It makes a difference for us.

    It in no way excuses the other person or speaks to punishment, civilly or criminally, nor or to compensation that should be given.

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  17. Kizzie, there are so many things wrong with that statement I don’t even know where to begin.
    1. I have forgiven a lot of people in my life. Most not because they asked but because the hurt was eating me up inside. It was like a wound festering. By forgiving them I have been able to heal to a degree.
    2. Forgiving someone doesn’t mean you have to go back and take a second or third helping of whatever they dished out.
    3. If they repent and ask forgiveness and you don’t give it, that is on you. I can imagine that if my child were murdered I would have a hard time forgiving the murderer but I will share the following story.

    My ex husband’s new wife’s ex husband. With me so far? Had some back issues which led to pain killer abuse. He had gone to the doctor for a shot and stopped at a convenience store to by a Coca Cola. He got back in his truck and was driving. He took a drink of his Coke and it didn’t taste right, so he glanced down and saw that he had accidentally bought diet Coke. While his eye was off the road he hit another vehicle. The accident led to the death of a 10 or 11 year old boy and this man spent 10 years in prison.
    During this time he straightened his life out and became a TRUE Christian. At some point the father of the little boy visited him in prison and became a Christian as well, which led to him becoming an ordained minister. He helped get the man who caused his son’s death out of prison and now they travel together sharing their testimony. J wants to write a book telling his story to reach more people. Perhaps the father of the boy visited prison to see if the man who caused his son’s death was repentent? Perhaps he went there in anger? Either way forgiveness happened and God has used it.

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  18. Karen, what you said in 10:33. Only God can forgive in the eternal perspective, but we can forgive for our own needs and for the needs of the other. If they choose not to be forgiven, we can’t make them, but we are free to move along. And the State certainly gets it piece of the pie if warranted. Like eighteen year old demonstrated when he said, ” I am never loaning my car to my sisters again.” He has forgiven her, but she and the other continue to drive dangerously. He has learned to not loan them his car. But he still loves his sisters and is kind in many other ways.

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  19. A book I once read was helpful to me — the author agreed that while there is no true forgiveness without repentance, Christians are to carry the “attitude” of forgiveness, being ever ready to accept and rejoice should the offender come to us requesting forgiveness. It made sense to me — we are to let go of any attitude of vengeance or wishing someone ill (although justice, as Kizzie pointed out, is warranted and should be fairly carried out) and stand ready, with open arms to forgive in that more specific way in response to repentance.

    I’ll admit that immediate public statements of “we forgive him” following some horrific act strike me as well-intentioned but somehow superficial — and I wonder if they’re short-lived. Coming into a true attitude of forgiveness is not something that happens overnight, depending on the seriousness of the offense. It takes working through and likely may take a bit of time and much reflection. At least that’s how it’s been with me even with relatively mild offenses. 🙂

    Annie curls up on the spare bed when we go to the dog park. Left behind. But she manages to make the most of it. I think I woke her up in this photo.

    Janice, I know what you mean about the conflict of taking care of the house vs. helping a friend, I’ve battled that with Carol these past several months when I’ve become so busy here at home & Saturday is the only day for me to do that (or to see Carol). Sometimes I have to just put the house on hold for a week, but it’s hard when you’ve built up a certain momentum.

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  20. DJ – That makes sense – having an attitude of forgiveness even when the other has not repented.

    When the other person has done or said something truly hurtful & relationship-breaking, then I agree that true & full reconciliation is not possible without his repentance. But there are more minor offenses that we can forgive & let go, that don’t have to break the closeness of the relationship. We married folk deal with that kind of thing a lot. 🙂

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  21. I like the combination of Annie’s black-&-white on the vivid bedding. (On my laptop, it looks like it is maybe a magenta or very dark pink kind of color.)

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  22. Well we didn’t have a tornado yesterday. It was a little odd the way the front came in from a slightly different angle and totally changed the direction of the wind. Usually we get it from the valley behind us, but yesterday most of the force was in front. So we didn’t get badly hit with wind or hail like some others did in the front valley and on the other side of the back mountain. Our internet was out for about an hour, and on our road there were some electrical lines down. But everything is back to normal now and the sun is shining.

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  23. Well, it is 2 pm and the house still waits. I did the recycling and decided to go to Sam’s since the car now is empty. I got some supplies for the office and a portion of what I need to cook spaghetti and meat sauce. I only found mechanical pencils with .07 lead so went to office depot for .09 per co-worker’ s special request. Then I went to Kroger and got pasta, but still did not find the sauce I need. So I still need to go to another store to get that. Things that should be easy peasy end up taking extra time. I feel sad over lack of accomplishment. I finally managed to get a load out of the dryer left from a week ago when I ran out of time.

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  24. We had tornado activity in our area Tuesday night, but no damage where we live. And today it was 28° when I left for work. That’s the Midwest for you.

    Last night you were all telling how wonderful your dishwashers are. We have had several dishwashers over the years. Two we left at houses when we moved, and four of them grew up and left home.

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  25. Paper plates are one of the few areas of contention I have with my husband. He likes them, and I don’t. I have a huge dislike for stinky trash. All scraps go to the critters, so that is not usually an issue. We have compromised. If I am not home for a meal, I will set out some paper plates. Other wise, we eat off of real plates.

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  26. Elvera put scraps out for the critters in H’ville. I told her to never put meat out. We do not want to attract any animals that eat meat.

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  27. Move over Annie.

    Looks like the work to replace my crumbling and cracking plaster bedroom ceiling will take 12 days (!). Yikes. Moving into the spare room, I guess, but all that loud work is going to make nervous wrecks out of my dogs.

    Meanwhile, posted by our pastor on FB:

    People would chide me when in my columns I would prognosticate that this movement would eventually target children. I realize in posting this, I’m opening a door of potential vitriol. I have no desire to be mean-spirited, but we need to be circumspect. This is now our environment and for my part, I don’t think it is a good direction:

    and with this link: http://movieweb.com/beauty-beast-2017-disney-first-gay-character-le-fou/

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  28. Kim, praying for clarity and good treatment if needed

    Kizzie, you’re right (12:17 p.m.), esp when offenses are not intentional and not seen as such by the person. Then it really falls to us to pray and resolve the matter with God and then move on.

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  29. On the hoopla over the Disney film that is coming out, I grew up hearing the teaching of those who told Christian parents to fear the world’s influence on their child. I and others made the discovery that the pit of protectionism and legalism is as dark as the pit of permissiveness and libertinism. Both are equally evil.

    There have been so many scares that such and such a character is gay in the children’s films of Disney – Timon and Pumbaa in ‘The Lion King’, Olaf in ‘Frozen’, and most recently, the brief glimpse of two women with a baby carriage in ‘Finding Dory’. Thinking back to the animated version of ‘Beauty and the Beast’, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone thought that Gaston’s sidekick, Lefou, was portrayed as gay in that. Really, if Lefou is supposed to be gay in the new live action version, it isn’t as if he is some kind of roll model – he’s the villain’s sidekick, helps the villain do bad things, and, in the end, suffers consequences for doing villainy. Having seen the trailer and been extremely irritated by the glimpses of Emma Watson’s lack of acting ability, I doubt the film will do well anyway. Christians are in danger of making a mountain out of a molehill.

    Not many people have seen it, but there was a French live action film made of ‘Beauty and the Beast’ a couple of years ago. It was visually stunning and filled the tale with as more dramatic additions than Disney ever dreamed. However, I cannot recommend it, not because it portrays a homosexual character, but because it displays a degree of intimacy between a man and a woman (who are supposed to be married) that I thought crossed the line between artistic portrayal and soft porn. Yet, I know, from the content of films that they say they watch, that many Christians wouldn’t object to such a scene. What is the difference, morally, between watching an intimate scene between a man and a woman, and watching a scene in which one man realizes he wants to kiss another man? The first is pornographic, the second merely indicates an emotion which is not the main focus of the film (I have a suspicion that the scene will fall completely flat – since scripts, like novels, cannot be forced to fill agendas without killing them). It could be said that the first scene wouldn’t be shown to children – but in my experience, children see far more than their parents realize of what the parents watch.

    If one wants to watch a live action film of Beauty and the Beast, there is a black and white version from 1946, made by the famous French filmmaker, Jean Cocteau. It is actually the prototype of Disney’s later version, since it first introduced the character of the villain who wants to marry Belle – the original fairytale has no such villain. However, children would not be able to read the subtitles of the French language film and would probably find it boring.

    In conclusion, children in Christian families will have to learn about the world around them. I’m not sure that children will even understand the gay character of Lefou. There were many films that I watched as a child which I considered innocent, but when I watched them as adults, I realized all the double entendre going on – I recently rewatched the ‘Apple Dumpling Gang’ which we loved as children, and thought, “Wow, there was a lot of innuendo in that film!” Parents would do well to be honest with their children about the current issues. Growing up in an era where gay rights was huge, and the national news broadcaster went out of their way to portray homosexuality as normal, we children heard what both sides had to say and drew our own conclusions (our homeschooling program would have been horrified that our parents listened to the national news). Certainly, explicit sexual scenes of any type should be kept from children, but I strongly doubt there will be anything explicit in this upcoming film.

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  30. roscuro, no surprise about the film and I realize you’re coming from an overly fundamentalist background that has moved you in the other direction — but I think the concern (and yeah, it’s history now, already well underway before doing this film was ever thought about but …) is the normalization within the culture of homosexuality.

    As I said, too late to undo that movement which has galloped to success in record time.

    So, I know, in a way, it’s just “one more thing.” But I wouldn’t dismiss it so out of hand as being insignificant culturally or as Christians’ concern as being an undo overreaction. Maybe this is more like just another brick in that particular wall, but sometimes Christians are right to see dangers where they really do exist and encroach.

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  31. And in the media culture we live in now, there’s no secluding “Christian children” from the world, surely. I don’t think that’s the point of the criticism, really.

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  32. I don’t know. I just typed in “Aj” and the computer did the rest.
    I see I have two addresses for you. It probably went to the yahoo one.
    No hurry about this. I have sent dozens of pictures over the years, but often don’t get the attached correct the first time.
    I will try again.

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  33. DJ, the normalization has already been accomplished. ‘Brokeback Mountain’ won Oscars years ago, this year ‘Moonlight’ won Best Picture. Portrayal of homosexuality, subtle and unsubtle abound in interpretations of Shakespeare and reinventions of Dickens on film and television. I don’t recall handwringing over the character of Thomas in Downton Abbey.

    When I reference my experiences in the past, it is not because I cannot see past the trauma of those years. I view those experiences as having a purpose – to help turn others from that dark path. I used to discuss legalism as it related to the culture in West Africa with a certain mutual blog friend when I was there, where there was a definite sense of demonic oppression at times, and she and I agreed that there was a certain demonic influence within legalism. After all, Satan’s temptation for humans has always been to become like God. One form of that temptation is trying to accomplish righteousness by efforts of the flesh.

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  34. Also, I wouldn’t say that my years in fundamentalism had moved me in the opposite direction. My views on sexuality are simply, clearly, and firmly that sexual relations outside of marriage are sinful, and that marriage is between one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others. Those the standards of a follower of Christ, based on his own words. Yet, I recognize two things, 1) that those who do not have the Holy Spirit are incapable of following Christ in this as in every other matter, 2) that God’s redemptive power in the death and resurrection of his Son can save any person. So, it does not distress me that a wholly secular film producer should produce a worldly film; nor do I think any film produced is more powerful than the Holy Spirit in persuading the minds of people of what is right.

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  35. There’s a line between being legalistic & being aware of & concerned about what is going on (& warning our children about it). We tried to protect our daughters from movies & TV that were inappropriate for their age, but we didn’t shelter them from differing views & attitudes. We discussed different views & moral issues & such. I told them to be aware that any movie or TV show or book has some kind of agenda, whether subtle or blatant, that every writer, director, etc. has a worldview, & that those worldviews seep into what they produce whether they want them to or not.

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  36. Well said kizzie

    The Annie pic was taken in the middle of the night when i’d gotten up to go the bathroom. She’s trained me to turn on a trickle of sink water for her and beat me into the bathroom on that night so I got my phone and snapped a photo.

    It was easier for her when I had the over-sized vanity, this little sink requires more of a rim balancing act, but she’s getting the hang of it.

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  37. Roscuro, I think that’s what I said ? (“the normalization has already been accomplished.”)

    Again, the concern being expressed is more about a film (with an agenda) directed toward children.

    Some of us remember not so long ago when the gay community loudly insisted that they just wanted to be left alone to live their lives, they had no interest in convincing others to agree or approve.

    Guess we’ve moved way beyond that stage now.

    But no “dismay” here. Just a point of interested concern which I think is appropriate.

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  38. Rightly seen, the concern for the direction of our culture is out of love of neighbor. it’s far from saying the gospel isn’t sufficient for salvation.

    I’m afraid we’re somehow talking past each other on this point (as opposed to having stances that disagree).

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  39. Kizzie, exactly, you talk to your children about what they consume, only holding back what their immature minds are not yet capable of handling. I wouldn’t say that there was just a line between legalism and discerning the culture. I would say they are two very different things. Legalism turns away in fear from culture and doesn’t want to understand what is happening. Discernment not only watches, but also engages with the culture. It isn’t as though I don’t get concerned over what is happening in the culture. I often pray about things I see happening which I’m worried about. But I also try to put it in perspective, since that way, I often discover paper tigers. Christians blogging about Lefou, a character wholly created by Disney studios, being portrayed as gay, when many Christians swallowed a character like Thomas in the Downton series with hardly a struggle, looks like Much Ado About Nothing. The play of that name by Shakespeare, had, when Kenneth Branagh produced it for film in 1993, the villain portrayed as being homosexual – I understand, from what my eldest sibling tells me, that the 1993 production of the play is recommended for use with high schoolers in the homeschooling material, which is generally conservative and classical, that they use.

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  40. DJ, I was listening to a bunch of Presbyterians the other day, Carl Trueman, Aimee Byrd, and Todd Pruitt, in one of their older podcasts, and Trueman said something which stuck in my mind. The podcast was about being a Christian and accomplishing one’s vocation, and Trueman said that Christ didn’t come to redeem the Roman culture. Christ didn’t wring his hands over the corrupt and filthy plays that were a part of Roman culture – rather he ate with publicans and sinners. We won’t influence our neighbours by blogging about how bad the culture is – we will by living out our convictions as we share in their lives.

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  41. Look at Annie in the new sink….her new napping spot?! 🙂
    Praying for BG….how is she dealing with these tests and such?
    Disney….I do not have young children any longer but I do have grandkids…the attempted indoctrination of our youngest from some in the film industry is disturbing. They are targeting children…other people’s children. Children are not capable of making “adult” decisions…parents are entrusted with the care and protection of their children. I am of the opinion Disney is not a friend….which is sad as that was not the original intent of Walt Disney I believe….

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  42. Nancy Jill, marketing to children is a very lucrative business, and Walt Disney was a business man. My dear friend has several times observed how twisted some of the older Disney films now seem to her. I was a child when The Little Mermaid came out, somehow managed to see it, and was enchanted by it. When I saw it as an adult, I was horrified – the song which the Sea Witch sings to Ariel when she takes away her voice and gives her legs is blatantly saying to use one’s sex appeal to get a guy, not an appropriate message at all.

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  43. A couple things you said, Roscuro:

    “I don’t recall handwringing over the character of Thomas in Downton Abbey.” Probably because that show isn’t being marketed towards children.

    “Legalism turns away in fear from culture and doesn’t want to understand what is happening. Discernment not only watches, but also engages with the culture.”

    Yes. We adults engage with the culture, and are (hopefully) able to use discernment as we do so. But discernment can also take the form of keeping our children from engaging with some aspect of the culture when we understand *they* are not discerning enough to safely consume it.

    I agree that we don’t want to slip into legalism, but the use of that term in this conversation about content that is inappropriate for some children is out of place, in my opinion. Exercising discernment in what we allow our children to feed on is not legalism, nor should it provoke a warning about “the pit of protectionism and legalism.” Not all shielding is bad, or evil.

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  44. I am much older and I watched the Mickey Mouse Club on b/w TV…we went on Saturday afternoons to the movie theater downtown and watched Old Yeller, The Parent Trap, Sound of Music etc…a more innocent time…..as our society has “progressed” different views are taken and it would seem clear many in the film industry have an agenda….to promote their ideologies….that is not what I wanted for my children nor for my grandchildren…actually no child. We researched shows/cartoons before allowing our children to view….they are now adults and make their own decisions for themselves and their children….my prayer is that they have been taught well and protect the minds and hearts of their children…as they should do as their parents….

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  45. 6, there are multiple aspects to any discussion on here, and generally, none of the aspects should be out of place. When I read a Christian blogger who wrote on this latest discussion about Disney, and this was before I saw Donna’s link here, I was concerned by what I was seeing in the reaction, and I tried to work out what it was. After some thought, I realized that I was seeing the same stifling of thought and gut reaction of fear that I had witnessed so many times before. I agree that parents need to shelter their children from danger, but they also at the same time need to equip them to face the danger. A child is tender and vulnerable to the cold, but that doesn’t mean that parents never send their children out to play in the snow properly dressed. If you notice, I have not prescribed for parents, saying that they should take their children to see the new film. I have only warned against not taking them for the wrong reasons, and also mused about how a child might not actually realize that there was anything going on in the film. I certainly never saw that message in The Little Mermaid when I watched it as a child (my parents were not the ones who showed us that film). I help my siblings monitor the content they show their children. When eldest sibling, her spouse and I do that with their children, we try to discuss why we do not feel that a film or book is appropriate at this time, and as the children grow older, we give them more and more discretion in what they chose to read and watch. We never make it about being a more or less moral person if one does or does not watch a film or read a book – that is where the legalism creeps in.

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  46. The Parent Trap – the old one with Haley Mills – was one I didn’t see until I was much older with my siblings. We were shocked at the frank sexual innuendo going on between the adults in that film. I mention it, not to make anyone feel guilty for enjoying such films, but because I think that we forget that the film industry has never been a friend. Before the film industry self-censored itself in the 1930s, they portrayed the same things they do now. Recent claims are that Cecil B. DeMille, in his blockbuster 1959 hit ‘Ben Hur’, portrayed a “homoerotic element” in the friendship between Messala and Judah. That might seem farfetched, until one considers that DeMille made his fame as a silent film director, and one of those films has a romantic scene between lesbians. Hitchcock admitted to working such angles into his films – ‘Strangers on a Train’ being one. Yet, many of us are comfortable watching these films – Heston was apparently unaware of the spin on his character in ‘Ben Hur’. I first saw ‘Ben Hur’ as a child – a homeschooling film lending library carried it. I don’t even think we should necessarily stop watching such films, but perhaps, we should be more discerning of what kind of content is in those old films.

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  47. Roscuro, I couldn’t agree with you more that parents need to shelter their children from danger, and also equip them to face danger. And this, too: “…we try to discuss why we do not feel that a film or book is appropriate at this time, and as the children grow older, we give them more and more discretion in what they chose to read and watch. We never make it about being a more or less moral person if one does or does not watch a film or read a book – that is where the legalism creeps in.”

    I guess I was taken aback that your first comment on the subject started out with such strong wording:

    “On the hoopla over the Disney film that is coming out, I grew up hearing the teaching of those who told Christian parents to fear the world’s influence on their child. I and others made the discovery that the pit of protectionism and legalism is as dark as the pit of permissiveness and libertinism. Both are equally evil.”

    …when no one here had expressed any opinions that looked legalistic to me. And putting “protectionism” and “evil” in the same paragraph didn’t sit all that well with me, admittedly. There are legitimate reasons to protect children, and how we do that, and at what ages, etc., is important. It looked like you were conflating the terms “protection(ism)” and “evil.”

    But I understand now where you’re coming from, and thank you for your further explanation in your 10:04.

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  48. 6, my old pastor – the elderly one who retired – used to warn against parents being over-protective of their children (one of the teachings which helped to counteract the legalistic influence the program gave us) whenever he preached on Ephesians 6:4. He pointed out that trying to bring up one’s children in a rigid environment, where the parents controlled everything for the child – an accurate description of what that program suggested – was one way parents could exasperate their children. That is where I get my use of protectionism.

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  49. There’s certainly a balance to be struck, not going to either the under- or over-protection extreme. I hadn’t heard Eph. 6:4 used in that sense before, but, yes, I think excessive rigidity would certainly qualify as exasperating a child.

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  50. Re: Disney and the homosexual in a movie- Does anyone remember “Midnight Cowboy”? It was in the late ’60s and was rated X. Someone said it was because one of the main characters was homosexual. If that was the case then we sure have come a long way down the slippery slope. For an adults only movie to a children’s movie.

    Come quickly, Jesus!

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  51. There’s quite a discussion over whether Christianity is to impact their culture — or whether it is to separate from it or step back, if you will. Probably more of my (generally) post-mil view, but I lean toward of course the gospel is to affect the wider culture, from the condemnation of slavery and on. The church absolutely does have a role in this world in which we live. Re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic does nothing for me. 🙂

    I’m far from a legalist and I certainly don’t “fear” (??) the culture or its changes (and yes, they didn’t descend upon us overnight — as someone recently said at my church, I don’t idolize the 1950s because the ’50s gave rise to the ’60s — and on it goes).

    I’m not a parent or grandparent so I don’t have much of a personal stake in Disney movies.

    But I still believe it is a valid concern to be aware of and to raise.

    And with that, I’m done. 🙂 Back to my cat in the sink.

    Long day for me, wrote 2 stories & had to do a last minute interview (after-the-fact) with the port police chief to add another quote to a story I’d already filed. Got that call on my way home (at almost 8 p.m.) and did the interview when I got inside the house (with Annie meowing and batting my leg the entire time since she hadn’t been fed yet!). Tomorrow is another long day with a council race story to do and another development story.

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