68 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 11-12-16

  1. Good morning everyone.
    I woke up in the middle of the night agitated about something.
    I composed a dissertation and posted it on the R&R thread.


  2. Michelle, that’s overall a good little piece. Not to nitpick, but there were a couple things I disagreed with him under timeout:

    “Short time-outs can be helpful to let a child cool down and get a grip. It might serve as a chance for a child to think through his or her behavior and make some changes. A time-out is not discipline. A discipline is meant to hurt, and time-outs can be instructive, but they are not a typical disciplinary action.”

    My mom made a distinction between “punishment” and “discipline” that I think is a good one: punishment is meant to hurt, but punishment is only one form of discipline. Overall, discipline is meant to instruct (to disciple), and discipline may or may not be punishment. Thus, let’s say that you have a child who is quite selfish at heart, and in training one thing you decide to do is have him spend a day making cookies for a nursing home and then take them to the residents. It is not punishment, though it is hard work–it is training him in the joys of doing something good for others. It is definitely discipline. Also, time-outs are radically overused today, and as I learned in doing babysitting (with parents who treated time-outs as the strongest of all punishments), they can only work if there is force behind them. That is, when I babysat this one child, and did as his parents told me to and put him on timeout, a few times he simply refused to go on timeout. And the only thing I could do about it was tell his parents, and the only thing they chose to do about it was put him on timeout themselves . . . it’s completely toothless as a punishment if that is all you have. (Eventually they realized a non-spanking policy was seriously hurting their child, and they incorporated an occasional spanking and a structured day, with events like tooth-brushing at a set time and place in the schedule, and they had a brand-new child.) Also, my parents did use time-outs as one of several forms of punishment–only it was called “standing in the corner.” And it isn’t true that it didn’t hurt. Five minutes of standing there doing nothing while listening to the timer tick was quite unpleasant. So what I’d say to that is it depends on the child, but don’t overuse any one method of discipline or punishment.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. The header photo is an illustration of how different hairy woodpeckers are from downies. You can’t see in the photo that this bird is bigger than a downy, since there is nothing to compare size. But if you’re familiar with the downy woodpecker, it should be immediately obvious this one has a bigger beak. Now, its size was definitely different, too. When I saw the bird fly in, since I am very familiar with the downy, even before I saw its beak I knew it was bigger than a downy and I said to my husband, “That’s a hairy woodpecker,” and I looked for a chance to get a decent shot of it. (The lighting wasn’t good enough for a “good” shot.) Birds do vary in size a bit even within a species, and I’m guessing this was probably a pretty large hairy for me to know from a distance that it was one. Note also the underside of its tail: it’s all white, and a downy woodpecker has feathers that are black and white. But this did end up being a decent photo since the bird opened its beak just as I got a photo and the resulting picture gives it an intense or even angry look.

    Besides being quite a bit larger than the downy, the hairy isn’t anywhere near as common, so I like getting a chance to see one. This one is a female (no red on the back of its head), and the one we see in our own yard occasionally is a male. This one was from our anniversary trip.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. So nice to see our son. He had to meet with 27 students this week, grade compositions, do his own reading and writing for his classes, etc. It is understandable why we don’t hear often from him. He gives it all to his university commitments.

    Karen is having a rough time at home. They should have given her some home care for at least a few weeks. I don’t understand why they don’t do that.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. I’m also trying to walk up with coffee … I am going to see Carol today, I haven’t done that for several weeks and figured before the bathroom remodel formally gets started (set for this Tuesday) I should take a Saturday to do that.

    I also have Monday off so I can use that day to do the final prep — I will have to haul everything out of the bathroom and also will clear out a tall bookcase in the hallway right next to the bathroom door, they’re going to need all the room they can get in there.

    I’m hoping I don’t run into a mess from what’s supposed to be a huge anti-Trump gathering in MacArthur Park in downtown LA — the freeways I take go right through there and are among the ones typically getting blocked by protestors. They’re expecting 14,000 people at the rally.


  6. No protestors should be allowed to block drive-ways. I have done protests. My husband has been in a picket line. Never, ever were we allowed to block anyone. We would have been arrested. I am all for protests, marches, (with notice and permits liberally given) but otherwise, violent acts or blocking traffic should lead to arrests and consequences.

    Liked by 7 people

  7. Kathaleena, when I was in Chicago I learned early to be very careful on Halloween night. I remember one day when a group of college students came to our church program (they helped weekly), most of them freshmen, and they arrived at the church quite shaken because a rock had been thrown through the van window. I personally never experienced anything like that, but I did choose one time not to drive down a street I needed to drive down, because I saw children throwing white things, probably eggs or possibly rocks.

    But another time I was driving on one of Chicago’s major streets after dark on Halloween, and traffic was moving extremely slowly. It turns out that two or three boys of about ten were riding their bikes in circles in the street, and cars were slowly creeping by as they could. Two or three girls sat on the curb and watched. In one way it was only minor mischief, but in another . . . it was something they shouldn’t have gotten away with. Where were their parents? Where were the police? Where was the neighbor man who would get out of his car and say, “Son, go home, and take your friends with you”?

    In summer in Chicago water pressure tended to be low. Though it was illegal (and dangerous) adults would open fire hydrants and let children play in the street. I wondered if any deaths ever ensued as drivers lost their brakes with squirting water. One day I was babysitting at a playground right next to a place where the road dead-ended. Someone had opened the fire hydrant and children were playing in the water. But the water had backed up and was several inches deep, since it could only flow one direction. While my kids played, the fire department came and turned it off. They hadn’t been gone two minutes when two men came out and opened it again. And I thought wow, you are so willing to be a hero to these children that you basically stick up your middle finger to the fire department and the police, as well as all the drivers whose cars are parked in water that’s getting too deep already?

    I can’t imagine the children in any of these scenarios growing up to care about “trivial” things like inconveniencing other people or blocking where they need to drive.


  8. In the ’60s there were sit-ins that shut down offices and classrooms (and sometimes streets). I suppose the idea is that to make a point, one has to do something like that so everyone “feels” it and sees it.


  9. We saw this sort of behavior in Greece and Italy when the anarchists were out playing. Tipping cars, breaking store windows, burning dumpsters, blocking roads, annoying people. Not surprised that we have devolved to that level with our poor little college agers and their need to be tolerant of everybody who agrees with them.


  10. I cannot believe this is the United State of America. We do not act like this…only we do.
    I took one of 6’s media fasts yesterday.
    My company was doing a benefit BBQ dinner for a local child who has a cancerous brain tumor. I awoke early. I had not volunteered but as I sat here drinking my coffee trying to talk myself out of going to the office and helping, I decided that was the very reason I needed to get up and go. I got to the office about 6:30 am, helped set up, helped served and was pretty much on my feet until 1:30 pm without much of a break. It wore me out and made me feel good. I was so tired when I got home around 3 that I took a shower, put my jammies on and didn’t move…not even to take my computer out of the bag and check in with all of you.
    It was good for me.

    Liked by 5 people

  11. That is what I was thinking. And, we don’t know the story but it was clearly patched. And children will scream. And parents do stuff they probably shouldn’t and say things they probably shouldn’t. But a lot of children are in foster care, most for far more than this.


  12. Always difficult to decide if you are throwing a child from the frying pan into the fire. 😦 Makes me so sad. Safe to say we have all done stupid things, things in the heat of the moment or where someone who doesn’t know the situation would misunderstand. Still, if the mom thinks this is funny, I am sorry for the child. Not that I have still watched the video. Just do not want to see it.


  13. Kathaleena, that’s the thing, not just that she said it, but that she recorded it, and she put it on Facebook . . . that suggests she saw her child’s misery as something that could entertain her friends. We all do stupid things, but post it on Facebook?

    Liked by 2 people

  14. I’m exhausted and the concert isn’t till tomorrow. We had rehearsals the last two days. Between Mozart and Wagner, I’m physically drained by the end – the other two pieces aren’t so physically and mentally taxing. This is the Wagner, his Siegfried Idyll. It may seem mostly slow and calm, but it is so intricate that you can not relax your vigilance for a second or you are completely lost:


  15. I think the wisest thing that I ever did was instead of continuing an argument with my teenage son, which he just wouldn’t give up, I quietly got up, went into the bathroom with my book, and locked the door. He was welcome to continue the argument with himself. Of course he followed me all the way to the bathroom and then continued the argument outside the door, but he finally gave up. And I was in a nice, quiet place, by myself.

    Liked by 3 people

  16. I’m never surprised at what people think of doing – one only has to consider the numerous ways European authorities in the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance developed of torturing people to realize that if you think of something awful, someone else has probably already gone and done it. However, the U.S. has 318.9 million (as of 2014) people. A million Americans could decide to do something and it would still be only about 0.3 percent of the population doing it. So, one video of one mother and child is really not significant in terms of overall trends.
    Not even the rioters are truly representative and law enforcement could tell you that many rioters are just there for the troublemaking, not for any issues that started the initial protest. I always think of the Montreal riots in 1955, after hockey legend ‘Rocket’ Richard was suspended by the NHL. One police officer arrested a man for breaking a store window and said “You must really love Richard.” The man’s reply, “Who’s he?”

    Liked by 1 person

  17. The LA anti-Trump demonstration and march went off without a problem, apparently. As I drove through and around the city today, there was a heavy police presence everywhere, including blockades at several on and off ramps. Several protestors stood on the bridges over the freeways with signs, yelling — many of the motorists honked in answer.

    Tonight may be another story, it’s the after-dark gatherings that usually bring out the bad behavior.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Do you have any idea what it is like when your fifteenth child has discovered knock knock and other joke books? The joy that it is almost finished. And then the realization that two of the children are emotionally behind her so one might get to endure two more. One has read them aloud in the past, as she knew they were supposed to be funny, but she did not get them. Will she start reading them again? Only time will tell. Will the one who belly laughs over everything mildly funny start reading them? Patience. One needs patience. The Fruit of the Spirit includes patience…..

    Liked by 10 people

  19. Thanks for sharing the music, Roscuro. Praying you’ll have a restful night before your concert tomorrow. Playing a string instrument is physically demanding, especially, I’m inclined to believe, one of the upper string instruments (though I haven’t played lower strings in a large ensemble that has long rehearsals). I remember getting physically tired on some of the music I played in symphony in my high school, and especially my college, days.


  20. Today was 1st Arrow’s last day at his present job. Tomorrow after church he’ll be taking the rest of his stuff and spending his first official night at his new apartment. And Monday starts the new job.

    It’s all kind of surreal to me, though we did this before when 2nd Arrow left home.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. First Arrow had a huge hardcover joke book many years ago that he really enjoyed. I’m not good at remembering jokes, but there is one from that book that I recall.

    Teacher: Johnny, give me a sentence that starts with the pronoun “I.”

    Johnny: I is…

    Teacher: No, you would say, “I am…”

    Johnny: OK. I am the ninth letter of the alphabet.


    Liked by 1 person

  22. Oops, sorry Mumsee. Probably not a good time for me to be cracking a joke. You’ve been hearing enough of those, it sounds like, now that I reread closer.

    Time for bed, I guess. Hoping not to have bad dreams. Something a little scary happened here just before it got dark out, and even though everything turned out fine, it is the sort of thing that sometimes makes it hard for me to shut down my brain for the night.

    Good night to all of you. And blessings on your Sunday.


  23. Once a year we do a celebration of all of the New Testaments and scripture portions that have been published that year. Today we had that celebration in church. God reminded me to take my camera. We included audibibles as the scriptures are being recorded for this oral culture. There were also some new Jesus films, which records the gospel of Luke. Very exciting. One mini Bible had been dedicated yesterday.

    Liked by 4 people

  24. Chas, I do the same thing a lot of times.

    When I was in fourth or fifth grade, I checked out a jokebook from the library, the school library as I recall. (Do they even have those anymore?) Anyway, as I read through it, I was absolutely delighted that it included a rhyming pun using my last name. (My last name was also a different joke that old men would often tell me, and often thinking I’d probably never heard it before. But as a last name it wasn’t particularly common; I’ve met one individual and one family with it, other than of course my own family.)


  25. Good Sunday morning. I slept well last night — grateful to God for that.

    1st Arrow is busy taking things out to his car. Final moving day is here. He’s my firstborn, and for so long I’ve been marking the “firsts” with him as he hit new milestones.

    Soon there will be a bunch of new firsts for him. But today (and some of the days leading up to this day), I’ve been thinking of “lasts.” Yesterday was the last day at his first job. Today is the last day as Sunday School Superintendent at our church. And last day worshiping there as a member. Next time will likely be as a visitor — a member of another church.

    Wish I had some astute way to sum this all up, but I’m not that good a communicator. It is what it is, and God has been and I know will continue to be faithful as son moves on to the next phase of his life.

    Shoot. Now I’m crying.

    Off to worship, and sing praises to God. May your day be blessed, everyone.

    Liked by 4 people

  26. We’re still making our way through Romans in our Sunday sermons. Interesting because this is where we’ll be for today’s message (I’m guessing this will wind up being a 3-week long sermon):

    Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

    6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
    (Romans 13:1-7)

    Liked by 1 person

  27. The pileated woodpecker was from our anniversary trip, too. It’s a huge woodpecker, crow-sized, our largest woodpecker now that the ivory-billed is probably extinct. (The ivory-billed was very similar to this species.) They have very large territories, so it’s easier to hear one than to see it. The day we saw this one, we saw one in the morning, and then it flew to a tree that had a second one, and then during all our hiking that day we were hearing the laughter and the hammer-like tree rapping. Finally I saw this one fly, and saw that she landed on a tree we could see, so I zoomed in and got some pictures. We walked closer (still with a lot of forest between us) and got more. Eventually she flew. I couldn’t get a direct straight shot, but the shot through limbs and leaves is actually quite realistic, because we were “spying” on the bird from a distance, not just looking at a bird on the next tree over.

    It’s a beautiful bird, and impressive when you see it fly close and you see how big it is.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Six, I know you hate to see him go. But it’s time. It would be much worse if he didn’t go.
    You need to turn loose. I know you know that.
    That’s the way it’s supposed to work.

    Liked by 3 people

  29. I have not been feeling well, just off and a few things wrong in my gut. I got to wondering what was causing it and wondered if it was pills that I was taking. I won’t know for a few days, but I read the label of the pills I suspected and it said clearly that it contains shellfish: lobster, shrimp, clams and crab. I believe that I developed and allergy to shellfish last year, so the way I am feeling would make sense. We shall see.


  30. We are under the weather here, as well. Husband seems to have brought home the cruise cold. It will affect him more than anybody but the rest of us will have the fun as well. We are using the recommended Osha. It seems to be helping me, and husband says his arthritis is not hurting in his hands so that might be a bonus.

    Which reminds me, Kim, we did get your recommendation for daughter and she was taking it and I thought it helped some and she did at first but then decided it didn’t. Now she thinks it did.


  31. Chas, yep, it’s time, and actually, it’s hard to tell from my posts, especially with the reference to crying, but I’m not sad that he’s leaving, or wishing he wouldn’t go. I just tear up in times of transition, whether good, bad, or whatever, and this one is good.

    When I heard about his new job possibility last summer, I immediately started praying that he would get hired. And I am so glad that he did.

    I think I mentioned this, but he was looking for IT work around our area after he graduated, but none of the leads, interviews and so on panned out with those. So he began looking outside our area.

    I’m glad now that those local jobs did not materialize, because it’s giving him a chance to spread his wings further.

    He’s always been more timid about stepping outside of his comfort zone than, say, his next sibling, who moved out at age 19. Did I mention he didn’t start walking until he was 15 1/2 months? LOL. He started cruising around furniture at something like 8 months, so he was very capable — he just wouldn’t let go of the furniture and simply walk into the middle of the room. Too afraid.

    And too analytical for his own good. He could tell how far things were from each other, and if he’d have to let go of the piece of furniture he was holding onto to get to the next piece of furniture, he wouldn’t do it. He’d get down and crawl about 2 steps (or whatever you call them when they’re crawling), then pull himself back up when he reached his destination.

    Well past son’s first birthday, hubby started very slowly and subtly, without son’s seeing him do it, moving the furniture just a tiny bit farther apart to trick him into eventually walking from one thing to another that would require momentarily letting go of the first object before he reached the second object.

    Didn’t work. Son figured it out, and refused to take that one unassisted step in the middle. 🙂

    First time he walked was at the nursing home where my grandmother was. His sense of distance apparently was a little off in unfamiliar surroundings, and he decided to walk from one chair to another one that required about one or two steps between.

    And he knew right away what he’d done, and from then on, he knew he could walk without holding on, and his crawling days soon came to an end.

    Little stinker. 😉

    Now he runs six miles!

    All that to say, it takes him a long time to decide to take a new step in life.

    But at the same time, there have been advantages, for him and for our family, that he has lived at home this many years. (He is 26.)

    He’s been a help to my husband with many of the outdoor responsibilities around here. And it’s been nice for our younger son, who was born a couple months before 1st Arrow turned 14, in that he had many more years to be in the same home with his older brother. 5th Arrow really looks up to 1st Arrow, and older son is godfather to younger son. The presence of his older brother these 12 years has been a stabilizing influence in what started out to be a very turbulent early childhood.

    The major advantage I see for 1st Arrow in living at home this many years into adulthood has been the opportunity to save more money over the years than if he’d been renting elsewhere. (Yes, we did charge him rent, and he paid his own way with a lot of other expenses, too, but not nearly what he would have been paying in rent other places, because he was assuming responsibilities in lightening the load around here, too.)

    And being able to save money for a future family is a blessing, especially in these times.

    He’s been employed for seven years, ever since he graduated from high school, so he’s not been that “20-something living in his parents’ basement playing video games the whole livelong day and never earning a living” type.

    Lest I am making him sound perfect, well, no, he’s not. 😉 And his parents — well, we made our share of mistakes, and there are still some repercussions of that that I’ll not go into.

    But as I keep saying, God has been faithful. And will continue to be. Soli Deo Gloria

    Liked by 5 people

  32. That sounds scary Jo, hope you feel better soon and figure out the cause — shellfish in medication sounds plausible if you’re allergic.

    We had an amazingly good sermon today — among the most pointed comments came regarding seeing so many of our neighbors in despair after this election.

    “It should break our hearts,” our pastor said, based on the premise that politics is a god to so many. He said he’s observed Christians “taking too much joy in people suffering — they’ve lost their ‘king.'”

    “We have been observing a nation of people who have become fully unraveled because their king has failed them and now their despondency controls them. And it will similarly control us, if we allow any earthly leader that place in our hearts which belongs only to the true King … Let us be careful to remember there is only one King with the wisdom, goodness and power to entrust our eternal souls.”

    Liked by 3 people

  33. The sermon was a call to remember God’s sovereignty —

    “The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble (Prov. 16:4). For example, I never would have voted for Pilate for governor. Let’s do the ciphering: If not for Pilate there would have been no conviction of Jesus — If there were no conviction of jesus there would have been no cross — If there were no cross there would be no redemption. God had Pilate right where He wanted him. … Through a negligent politician, man was emancipated from sin. I would never have voted for Pilate. But when God revealed His secret plan, I am grateful that His will and not my will was done.”

    (Those words, btw, were written originally by our pastor in 2008 — as the nation stood on the brink of electing Barack Obama. But it clearly could be applied to any fallen human being thrust into the leadership of a nation.)

    He knows the end from the beginning, we don’t.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. Amen.

    And he’s off! First Arrow just left now. (He was watching a football game with friends this afternoon, and got home around 4:00 to pack the rest of his things into his car and go. Didn’t quite have room for everything, but most of it is either at his apartment or on the way tonight. He’ll be back in two weeks to celebrate Thanksgiving with my side of the family, and will take at that time what remains.

    Fifth Arrow and the rest of the kids did fine with big brother’s leaving. We all stood out on the driveway for the send-off. Prayers for safe travels appreciated. Three hours, and then a trip to the store for groceries.

    And as for here, well, two down and four to go for these parents launching the arrows. (Or maybe three to go — don’t know 5th Arrow’s long-term independent-living prospects.)

    As DJ reminds us, He knows the end from the beginning, we don’t.

    Trusting in God’s sovereignty through it all.

    Liked by 3 people

  35. Today I went to Sunday School at the Baptist Church because a friend is teaching Boundaries which I want to talk. Someone who had not met me before asked me if I knew L. I laughed and told them that she and had had been crossing each others boundaries and telling each other what to do for over 25 years which is why she was making me take the class with her/


  36. This was pretty cool. At Oklahoma University they display all of the old dissertations and theses of their graduate students in a beautiful old library. A young man from my Sunday School class and his younger sister and brother found Dad’s thesis in aeronautical engineering from 1964 and posed for a picture.


  37. I liked the pictures of the hairy and pileated woodpeckers. We get both of those birds here, though not as often as downys and red-bellies. I’m not sure if we’ve ever had a sapsucker, though I haven’t looked closely and may have missed some, thinking they were another kind of woodpecker we do get. (I think sapsuckers look most like downys, is that right, Cheryl?)

    And I’ve only seen a red-headed woodpecker once. Striking bird. I wish we had them more often.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. 6 Arrows, yes, from a distance sapsuckers look rather like downies. On this trip I saw most of the Indiana species, but I wasn’t sure whether I saw a sapsucker. A couple of times I saw one that looked like a downy but not quite, enough to make me think “sapsucker,” but I wasn’t able to zoom in before it was gone.


  39. “And the Mozart Symphony (No.40) is like running a marathon, in which you are in constant danger of falling behind:”

    Roscuro – what instrument do you play? Our orchestra did Mozart 40 earlier this fall. I go to play Violin 1. You are spot on in what you say!


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