70 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 9-14-15”

  2. It’s been almost an hour Jo, and no one else has showed up.
    Have a nice evening.
    Good afternoon Tuchicus.
    Everyone else?
    GET TO IT!
    😉

    Aj already is.
    It had to happen sometime: Elvera turned on the fire logs this morning.
    It got down to 43 degrees. Still is: 43.9.

    Like

    Reply

  3. Good day and night and all times between! I just had my share of hospital tray breakfast. I had coffee, grits with one third of a sausage patty, and 3 bites of honeydew melon. Really, a good breakfast.

    Husband took Ambian last night. Besides helping HIM to sleep (put me on high alert), it made him a bit loopy and the nurse raised his bed rails and put on the alarm for when he tried to get up. I did get some sleep, but it was off and on. We expect he will get to go home today. Yay!

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply

  5. Ambien is scary stuff. I knew someone once who took it, went to bed, and several hours later was in a car wreck. He received a DUI.
    Another friend, who is a Christian drug councelor, accidentally took it one morning instead of another medication she usually took. She left headed to a vestry meeting, but fell asleep at the wheel. Luckily she had taken her foot off the accelerator and was on a road that dead ended into another. She was on the phone with her dad, and he realized something had happened when she stopped answering him. (He lives in another state), but he called local police and they started looking for her. Of course they were convinced she had been drinking. He had to explain that she was an alcohol and drug therapist and NO WAY she would be passed out drunk.
    As it turned out, it was a blessing. While they were running tests on her at the hospital they discovered something else that did need attention.

    I say this not to scare you Janice, but to warn you to watch if he leaves the hospital with a prescription. Maybe highlight the bottle or something.
    Personally, after being witness to the above two situations, I wouldn’t take it.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  6. I second Kim’s caution on Ambien. I’ve never taken it, but have quite a few friends who have, many who have had negative side effects–a few are addicted.

    There are safer meds for insomnia.. Message me if you want more info: annmstrawn@sbcglobal.net.
    I was a licensed therapist before being a stay at home mom and know quite a bit about various pharmaceuticals….

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  8. Until last summer I wouldn’t have even considered that I could someday get hummingbird photos. (This is a male ruby-throated, by the way–it’s the only species in the eastern half of the US, though I came from the state that is one of the best places in the world to see hummingbirds.) Last summer I finally had a camera that could get really good bird photos. (Before that, for two years I had a camera that could get really good ones under some conditions, but was too slow with not enough zoom to be reliable for them.) Well, a friend and I went to a tea house where they have bird feeders, and they had a hummingbird feeder too far away for a photo of a bird that small even with this camera (50 feet?) and I took a couple of photos anyway, but they weren’t very good, but I realized for the first time that I could get them. My husband, seeing the photos and knowing what I could get if the birds were closer, got us a hummingbird feeder.

    The new challenge became getting photos that show the male’s red. In natural light, it’s harder than it might look. They have to be just the right angle, and you have to be focused and zoomed in far enough–but if you’re zoomed in, if the bird moves much you don’t get the shot. I think I took more than a thousand photos of hummingbirds last summer, and I got beautiful ones of females, of hummingbirds hovering and feeding, and of males with gorgets (bibs) that looked black rather than red. And I got lots of photos that would have been beautiful if they had been in focus (where a male buzzed to a different spot in the frame, where he was no longer in focus, and then flashed bright red), and lots and lots of photos that had no bird in them at all since he buzzed away just as I took the shot. I also got a very few where he was showing red, but usually they were a bit too dark or some of the gorget looked red but most of it was still black.

    If you think “Hey, I’ve seen better hummingbird photos than those, so it can’t be all that hard,” look at this website and you’ll see how STAGED most hummingbird photo shoots are these days. https://lowcountryhummingbirds.wordpress.com/ Scroll down to “evening hummingbird shoot (5 light)” Really–it’s rather interesting to see what lengths people go to in order to get hummingbird photos where the whole bird is glowing bright in a way you never see in real life.

    But the only part of the photos above that are “staged” is that there is a hummingbird feeder in that tree, and birds like that tree because of it. But he happened to sit on a bare twig in the tree (not a bare branch set up with lights aimed at it like some TV studio) and was flashing red, and my husband called me to grab my camera and come. I put it on fast action because when they show color, it comes in flashes (sometimes it’s red and sometimes it’s black, depending on the bird’s exact position). I got several quick photos, some of them red and some not, and then he left the branch and hovered above it for another second or two at what happened to be just the top of my “frame,” and so I got several more photos of him hovering. But this is natural sunlight and not four or five spotlights, a real branch on a real tree, and a background of blurred leaves from that same tree and not a painted backcloth. In fact, I wasn’t even using a tripod, just holding a camera and shooting, and I finally got the shots I’ve tried for two summers to get.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  9. The Kid has decided that he doesn’t want to go to church anymore. I’m not sure if I should make him go and risk him hating church more or let him stay home hope it is a phase? I’ve also considered switching to a smaller church where he might ft in better. Any of you been through this?

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  10. We’re finally getting some weather relief.

    _____________________________________________________

    LOS ANGELES — A low-pressure system will combine with lingering moisture from former tropical Cyclone Linda to bring Southern California periods of rain between today and early Wednesday, threatening to create treacherous road conditions and churn up powerful winds, especially in the Antelope Valley, forecasters said.

    As of this morning, there remained uncertainty about the trajectory of the expected storm system and the volume of rain it will generate. But National Weather Service forecasters said coastal slopes and foothills will experience the highest rainfall amounts.

    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

    Like

    Reply

  13. Nice photo, Cheryl. We have not seen any hummingbirds lately. Not long ago, we had nine at a time around our two feeders. I was surprised to sometimes see four on the feeder at a time. Each feeding from a hole. That is unusual, but I believe it was several ‘babies’. They fight viciously and are quite entertaining. Because our feeders are under a porch, we seldom see the beautiful colors of the male.

    kbells, I pray for wisdom for you and your husband. I did not have my children do that, however I would caution against assuming a small church would make him feel more welcome. My experience is that it is easier to find your niche in a larger church or school, for that matter. If there is one that he already has a friend attending that may be an option, as long as you can support the doctrine.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  14. I was forced to attend an OPC church for six years–from 12 to 18….to this day, I believe it caused more harm than good–and probably delayed my conversion. I’m 44 now; became a believer, after being a professed, staunch atheist from 12-26. I detested that weekly hour and a half…During the lengthy sermons, I’d stare directly above the preacher’s head and recount the previous night’s shenanigans in my mind… Afterwards, I’d mock the entire service with my equally obnoxious friends, who were usually at the apartment I shared with my brother (who was a third year med student) sleeping it off… I lived away from home my last two years of high school because I had transferred to an all-girls school that was an hour and a half drive fr my folks’ home in Bandera…

    Like

    Reply

  15. Mumsee, I got an e-mail from you. It looked suspicious in that it was a link to a website.
    But I tried to open it. It wouldn’t open, then my AVG came on with a threat notice. Said that it eliminated the threat.
    Not so much for Mumsee here, but everyone be careful.

    Like

    Reply

  16. Ann, God called you in His perfect timing. 🙂 I didn’t want to go to church either by the time I turned 12 and my mom let me slide. I understand her frustration, but a little part of me was sorry I’d “won” that battle.

    I doubt many pre-teens or teens haven’t gone through some kind of spiritual rebellion. But God uses event that.

    As a firm believer in God’s sovereignty over all, we all are effectually called right on his precise time table, for whatever His reasons. Nothing “delays” our conversion, we come to Him right on time. 🙂

    Saw this on everyday apologetics and how “to make a defense to anyone who asks…yet with gentleness and respect.”

    Did you all like Columbo?

    http://www.ligonier.org/blog/diplomacy-or-d-day/

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  17. KBells, I am going through it with an 18 year old girl. The foundation was laid. I do not make her attend church. I keep her covered in prayer that she will return. I left the church myself because I attended a legalistic church school. I came back.
    I have a friend who was not allowed to go to other churches with friends. Her mother told her they went to church as a family and (First Baptist) was their church. She left the Baptist church for a while as an adult and converted to Episcopal, but is now back in the church where she was raised. My point in that is don’t leave the church where you and your husband are comfortable to try to get your child to attend. At this age he is too young to stay home by himself while you are at church. I would make him go, just like you would make him go anywhere else until he can stay home alone responsibly. If he doesn’t want to go then I would let him stay at home. No friends, cannot leave the house. I would also randomly not go to church myself and pop back in so he never knows if you are gone 30 minutes or 2 hours.

    Disclaimer: I may not be the best to give you advice.

    Like

    Reply

  18. One more thought: God uses our rebellion as he uses everything in our lives. In it we see our own stubbornness and spiritual pride, our natural disdain and enmity for God himself. It helps us to recognize and appreciate His grace when he calls us to Himself.

    I think back to church as a child and young girl and realize now there were SS teachers and pastors and others who surely were praying for me and all of us during those years. Blessings I had no inkling about.

    We go through exactly what he ordains us to go through — it’s all part of the big picture in our salvation. To God be the glory.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  19. I do not think husband will ever do Ambian again. It was really like he was badly drunk on it. I have never seen him like that. I awakened to see him with his hospital gown on the floor and he was by a chair at the sink, probably thinking he was at the commode. I caught him in time. Then he almost fell off the real commode. They tried Melatonin first, but it did nothing to help. No, I do not think Ambian is for us. And God was good to awaken me when he did.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  21. Kbells, if you can try to find a church connected activity that he might enjoy to keep a favorable impression of church and to have some continuing progress in learning, maybe that would encourage him. Also, if y’all did family mission trips he would gain greater appreciation of hands on work of Christians and reason to gather and be in fellowship as a church.

    My son never outright rebelled on church, but would not get up in time to go sometimes. We had some Sunday morning battles and frustration. We did change churches so he would have a youth group. You can go online to check out youth groups at churches in your area. He can visit several to see if there might be a good fit.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  22. JaniceG: I concur that people in the hospital need a support system, one that is present. Nurses are overworked and I believe, in these times, you must be your own advocate regarding medical care. So glad you’re able to there with him. I’m praying for y’all.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  25. Children in church: we have mandatory attendance while they live here. We try to attend churches with no children or youth group or Sunday school for children. They can believe as they like. I tell them their belief is up to them and God but their attendance is to provide them the opportunity to sit respectfully and appear attentive. And to learn how some other folk think. It is up to them what they do with it. But our children have a great deal of freedom and we expect them to be in church with us on Sunday for an hour and a half. They enjoy the older folk and meet and greet and get accolades for their hard work around town and their sports activities. Will it poison them for life? I don’t think so. God will work in them as He worked in me and draw them to Himself as He wills.

    Our bio children: two make church and relationship with God and other believers a priority. One thinks she ought to attend but works nights a lot. One is drifting. Of the grown adopted: one attends regularly, one is a missionary, two are drifting. Of those at home, none have requested to not go other than a couple of times when work interfered. But we are confident they all know what the inside of a church looks like and what a church is made up of. God will do what He will do in His time. We pray for them all.

    Liked by 4 people

    Reply

  27. Boys and young men (teens) often do better having a “job” than they do either listening or worshipping; work the sound booth,help with Jr. Church, help clean-up after the coffee-time. We don’t do well with listening or thinking. Boys are not very smart until later in life. Oh, and tell your girls, “Men are dogs!”

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  28. Mumsee, I really appreciate the unique situation you have with church and your children. It is ideal. For those who have history with church, a different approach may be required to keep a connection. If the social aspects of being with peers are making a teen want to not attend then attending a church with no activities other than the service to attend with parents would be best.

    In my church there is a Team Kid program on Wed. evenings that is much better attended than Sunday morning church and Sunday School by that age group.. Maybe that is a trend?

    Like

    Reply

  29. The middle schools in our area have a later start time than for other age groups because the early teens need extra sleep for gowth according to authorities. I do not know if that is feeding into the idea of sleeping in on Sunday a.m. church time.

    Like

    Reply

  30. Cheryl – Re: your comment to me on the weekend’s Rants & Raves.

    I thought that since it was a Snopes article pointing out that the truth is not known, rather than merely me giving my own opinion, that she might accept it. But you’re right, I should have known better. She is so blinded by her contempt/hatred for those she disagrees with that she cannot seem to think logically.

    But Donna also had a point. Sometimes my comment is not only for YF but for others who may be reading, especially if it is anything related to the Bible or Christianity.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  32. AJ – I hope you saw my reply to you on the weekend’s news thread, that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by asking if I had misunderstood your point.

    Like

    Reply

  33. We find that if children have a regular reasonable bed time, they will wake up and function just fine. We have had some that claim to be night owls, they are required to get up at the same time. Their clocks adjust. I know, I know, there are some who never adjust. I would say the majority could adjust if they went to bed reasonably. Husband and I go to bed at about eight thirty or nine. The boys shut down about ten thirty, but they are always up at seven. On football nights, when they get home at two in the morning, they still get up at seven. They might go to sleep a bit earlier the following days (this happened this past weekend) but life continues and they wake up regularly and are able to function through the day. Oh, they are allowed to sleep in on Christmas Day but nobody has ever taken us up on it.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  34. We did not have early bedtimes so that was part of our problem, but son told me he now gets up at 5:30 a.m. on his teaching days. That difficulty of getting up in time for church or other events got corrected by earning a paycheck.

    We are going through processing now to be discharged from the hospital. 🙂

    Liked by 5 people

    Reply

  38. I agree with mumsee that young people should learn to sit quietly with their parents in church, and not be taken out of the regular service for children’s church. Sunday school is okay, as long as parents don’t use it as a substitute for their responsibility to teach the children at home during the week. And youth groups? Get away, as far away as you can, from youth groups. All the ones I’ve seen are not much more than a moral social club. Lots of activity and “fun” with little emphasis on the more important things of God. One preacher I know said that if you get people to church with amusement, you have to continue amusing them to keep them there. I’m not saying church should be as quiet and dreary as, well, a quiet and dreary place, but the young learn how to worship by observing the adults. How can they do that if they are put in other rooms?

    Liked by 3 people

    Reply

  39. There are times when I feel like no longer attending my family church. Nothing to do with lack of faith. However, the fact that I do not have a car of my own, and that I frequently am the church musician keeps me going. I have come to the conclusion it is probably good for me to be in a church that makes me somewhat uncomfortable. If nothing else, it keeps me searching the Scripture to see if my disagreement with the pastor’s sermon is Biblical or not.

    Mumsee is right that the discipline of sitting still and being respectful for a mere hour and a half will benefit any teen; and Bob is correct that some kind of responsibility might help increase a teen’s interest. I was too deeply troubled mentally as a young teen to ever try to stop going to church; but it probably also helped that I was given an ever-increasing role as pianist at the same time.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  40. Peter, not all youth groups are even moral social hubs. I was only ever involved in one youth group, age 20 to 22, and what I believed was already pretty well established. But my experience in it (combined with other things) reinforces to me “stay away.” Let’s see . . . the group was pretty cliquish, and I was never accepted and my sister was only sort of accepted. When we’d been attending faithfully for two years, we’d find out Sunday morning that everyone but us had been to the house of one of the young people the night before; someone who’d been attending four weeks would have been invited, but we wouldn’t have been.

    I know of several pregnancies between members of the group, including at least three babies being given up for adoption. (One more pregnancy was to a girl who only came for a short time, already had a child, wasn’t a believer, and grew up bouncing from one foster home to another, and I think there might have been another pregnancy or two resulting in marriage, but I’m not sure about that.) Granted, that wasn’t all in the time I attended, but it was in maybe a five-year span, with a college age group of 15 or 20 and a high school group probably the same size.

    One time I was in a group of the young people who’d gone out for pizza, and somehow I ended up at the table with high schoolers and no youth pastor. The boys started joking about condoms, and one started talking about how funny it was that a friend of his got caught with a condom in his wallet; his mother found it, questioned him about it, and he told her it was a balloon and “proved” it by blowing it up. Soon after I left the church to go to college, my sister was grieved because the pastor’s 13-year-old daughter was determined that this would be the year she would lose her virginity. She came to church happy one day, and telling her peers that the party this Friday night would be “it.” My sister and another adult prayed for her . . . and she came to church the next week in a full-body cast; she’d been unable to make it to that party. 🙂

    After church Sunday evening the young people wold often gather and talk about whether to go see a movie. I was a bit of a party pooper, I admit, but when they agreed on one I always asked what it was rated, and it was always R. Not that R-rated movies always deserve their ratings or are always movies to avoid (it might be a war movie or show the gritty reality of inner-city gang life), but when the rating doesn’t even cause you to blink, there’s an issue.

    Further, when I was 15 to 17 I attended another church for the same length of time, but there I taught Sunday school, taught VBS, was a member of the music committee, and sang in the choir. And I knew the people of the church well. The church where I was in the youth group, I hardly knew anyone outside the youth group (though I did sing in the choir for a while there, too), though I attended faithfully every Sunday morning and probably every Sunday night. (The youth group met during Sunday school and Wednesday night, and we sat together in church Sunday morning.) When the youth pastor left, the youth group disintegrated immediately, off to other churches with youth groups. The few other young people who stayed told us that happened periodically, every time they lost a youth pastor. Basically none of us really had a church family; we only had a youth group. I know that good things sometimes happen in youth groups, but I personally would far rather have kids connected with the church in an intergenerational family, the way church is designed to operate.

    But my vote on whether kids who live at home are allowed to drop out of school or church or other life basics? No.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  42. I came to know Jesus through my participation with a post-college youth group at Second Baptist Church in Houston, where Dr. Ed Young is the head pastor. The young adults I met were extremely moral and in love with Jesus. I wanted what they possessed…. It led me to join a women’s small group Bible study on Wednesday nights…which led to many one on one lengthy discussions with the Bible study leader….which planted the seed for my reluctant conversion four years later.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  43. We had a good experience with youth group for my son at the church I attend now. The youth leaders were serious minded and I was thankful for each he had. The group was small and included some homeschoolers along with students in private snd public school. I would do it over. In my husband’s church and my former church, our son had the job of accolyte, but after he got older I was told it was considered to be a job for younger kids. As it turned out there were few younger consistent attendees and an elderly man did it for awhile. My husband spent the whole service in the choir loft, and you can imagine how much a teenage son would want to sit with his homeschooling mom (alone with just her and him). Anyway, you can see each family is unique as well as each youth group. I tend to think small but growing youth groups with serious Bible study and mission projects are best. You have to do research and be discerning, of course, to meet the needs. Pray for God’s leading.

    Like

    Reply

  44. Today, my mother and I saw four sandhill cranes on our walk. They were in a soybean field. Two seemed slightly larger, and we guessed they were the parents when they started giving an alarm as we walked by, while the smaller two just stood there. When we reached the end of the road and turned back, they were still in the field, but then they took off and disappeared over the woods. Unfortunately, I did not have my camera with me. My mother said it was the first time in her life that she had seen a sandhill crane.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  46. Cool, Roscuro. I’ve only seen them twice, both in the last three years. First time was late summer, a family group of four. (They lay two eggs.) The adults have color on their heads and the young ones don’t. We also saw (and photographed) a few this spring, at roughly the same location, and we heard them calling within tall grass, but only my tall husband could see them at that point.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  47. Re. Youth Groups: My eldest sibling did not like the youth group in the church we formerly attended, and indeed, there were a lot of bad influences in that particular group (this was the ’90s, when the darkness of genres like grunge rock reflected the darkness among the youth). When we decided to join the church my family currently attends, there was a small but vibrant youth group, which both eldest and second sibling enjoyed. I was briefly able to attend as the youngest member, before a bitter split and then the calling to another church of the charismatic young pastor and the leaving of the older youth for college depleted the group. There were some feeble attempts to restart the group later on, but it wasn’t very successful.

    When I moved away for a short time, second and youngest sibling started going to a College and Career group that incorporated the youth of several churches in the area. There, they both met their future spouses. I attend sometimes, but as a senior member of the group, I feel very much out of the loop, especially when everyone pulls out their smartphones to text people that aren’t there. Also, the teaching leaves a lot to be desired, as the leaders are given to depending on DVDs of popular teachers for study material.

    There is something to be said for having opportunities for young people to meet and interact with each other. After all, church young people are discouraged from attending the places most young people go to meet each other. Even the Amish have such activities for their young people. My eldest sibling met her future spouse outside of the youth group, but she was the only one of my three siblings who did (and even then, she met him through the church). There are no other single people in my tiny church now; and it does seem needful to go out and find other people of my age group to interact, not necessarily for the purpose of marriage, but a because our generation sometimes needs to share how we each face the challenges of living.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  51. Raised in a nonbelieving family, came to Christ at VBS while at an uncle’s for the summer. Upon return to the home front, with no elders to advise me, I attended the denomination I thought my great grandmother had attended, and the Sunday school. We went to the home of the teachers one time and their coffee table was stacked with porn. I changed churches. There I also attended the youth group (a nice group of children) and Sunday School. I was desperate to grow but every body seemed to think we were just kids. I attended Young Life where I learned people swallow live gold fish. The place I found the most help was a group called Friday Night Fellowship, a mix of ages where we sang together, shared the Word, and prayed. We aged from about fifteen to eighty five. The youngers did not help me grow but the olders did. The seed was watered and nurtured and made for a good relatively safe start. I was such a misfit that I was not aware of the shenanigans in young life or youth group, until much later. And there were so few teens in FNF, that the olders were able to guide without the pressure.

    Like

    Reply

  52. I’ve known a couple women who talked about not wanting to go to church as teens, & were “forced” to go to church. During an adult Sunday School class years ago, one of those women urged parents to keep bringing their reluctant teens to church. She said that even if they were slouched down with arms folded defiantly across their chests, & didn’t seem to be paying attention, as she had done, they were still hearing the word preached.

    Donna’s comment, “… but a little part of me was sorry I’d “won” that battle,” reminds me of the other one. She had been very rebellious. (In her head, she would make up dirty lyrics to the songs we sang.) But she said that she was glad her parents held firm. She also said that whenever her mom would give in to her about something, she would actually feel angry at her mom for giving in.

    Something to consider.

    Like

    Reply

  53. We told our children they had to go to church as long as they lived in our house, but we also talked to them about what the issue was–why didn’t they want to go to church?

    Invariably someone will say it’s boring, and then we had to think of a way to counterbalance that–many kids leave the church because they don’t get their questions answered. So, ask him what questions he has. Perhaps he’s getting grief at school about evolution, or whatever. Treat him like a young adult and discuss the Bible with him–challenge him to see what’s really there.

    A couple of my kids learned to run the sound board, so they didn’t have to sit with me. With one of our children, we volunteered to leave the church (where my husband was the church president and I taught the Bible study), if they found one that met their needs better. She looked around and concluded she liked our church better–because people at the church loved her. She has no grandparents, so that was important. We got her involved in the drama ministry, she sang in the choir and now she’s eager to attend church when home.

    You may not be a long-day creationist like we are, but reasons.org has excellent answers to science related questions that might make more sense to him. For us, it was important to find out what the issue was–his heart, our church, the youth group, teasing from school, his mother, whatever. Ultimately, the decision to follow Christ is his, but if there are roadblocks put up that you don’t know about, we all have a problem.

    As I recall, your guy has a sweet heart underneath the bluster. Look for that sweet heart and find out what it is hardening it. And if it’s a well-meaning blue haired church lady–protect him from her.

    And if he won’t talk to you, send in his dad. In my experience boys get tired of talking to female authority figures about the age of 10. They’re sick of their teachers, etc. That’s when dad needs to step in. We loved scouts for that reason. We live in such a feminized society, it’s important a boy have an opportunity to learn how to express his masculinity in a positive way. Sometimes the church doesn’t do that well. Our current church has had women leading the youth group ever since we arrived. I, personally, thought that was a poor call. We’ve got a lot of men, now, who are helping and the boys get to spend time with a fire chief, techy guy, engineer and a former soldier. That can help.

    Liked by 5 people

    Reply

  54. Walked off to work on my Bible study and thought of something else–

    I hate to look for things that aren’t there, but isn’t he also at the age when the adoption issues start to rear? Perhaps he’s looking for a sense of his racial identity? Bear with me–I have several friends who adopted kids out of Korea. They’ve all made major attempts to get those kids back to Korea to get a sense of their “roots.” Perhaps you could visit a Black church or find a Black Christian man who could give your son a sense that Christianity is not just the home of white Americans?

    Even Barrack Obama’s white grandfather made an effort to introduce the abandoned kid to Black men. I think he made some poor choices–Black guys at the local pool hall in Hawai’i?–but he suspected the boy may have been searching for an identity the grandfather couldn’t provide.

    You need to pray and talk to him, absolutely, but that’s another potential idea. Mumsee, what do you think?

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  55. The youth group at our church meets on Friday evenings. They do sometimes do fun stuff together, but their meetings have generally tended to be worship services. The youth pastor that left recently said that the faith of some of those kids could put a lot of adults to shame.

    I know that not all youth groups are helpful, but some are.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  56. Great comments about youth in church. We believe young people need more contact with older people who can guide them through life. There should not be a generation gap in the church. Mumsee alluded (eluded?) to that when she said, “The youngers did not help me grow but the olders did.” I tell my high school students to make friends with someone from their parents’ and/or grandparents’ generation, and when they get older to befriend a younger person. When we lived in Iowa, our son, who was 15 at the time, made friends with the oldest member of the church: a 90 year old woman. She told us our son was a blessing to her.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  58. Peter, I spent some of my teen years in a church with no one within four years of my age (except my younger sister and brother and a boy my sister’s age, and they didn’t count). My closest friends ended up being 11 years older than me and 15 years older than me . . . and the longest-lasting friendship from those years (until she died four years ago) was 50 years older than me. That was the church where we didn’t have a youth group–how much I would have missed if we had!

    Like

    Reply

  59. BTW, re my 7:48, I think that if we had had a youth group that honored God, I might have had some “gains,” too, and might have been less lonely in those years. But that church was a huge blessing in those lonely years, and I honestly think that learning to make friends from multiple generations, and the ability to minister to others, were what made it so blessed.

    A good youth group can minister to young people . . . but I can’t help but wonder how often it is able to minister more than a solid church could have done. I suspect that the answer is “not very often.” But I’m sure that whatever the exceptions, on average a youth group “subtracts” more than it “adds.” In a church that is no longer preaching the gospel, a youth group may still do so, just as God can still use rocks if His people do not speak. God has ordained that elders and deacons lead the church; He can choose to use others besides or in addition, but it is to the elders’ shame if others are doing the ministry instead of them.

    Like

    Reply

  60. Husband: discovers that a quaint little restaurant we like is going to have a Dungeons & Dragons tournament next month . . . on our anniversary.

    Him: It’s four to eight.
    Me: No. I’m not losing you for four hours. (A moment later.) That really sounded like a submissive wife, didn’t it?
    Him: I don’t blame you.

    (A minute later.)
    Him: Would you say it was providence, me finding that information?
    Me: No, I would say it was you.
    Him: It really complicates it, it being on our anniversary.
    Me: I’d say it simplifies it.

    We like that sort of back and forth.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply

  61. Just now winding down from a long day at work and catching up on the posts…Ambien…don’t take it! Paul was given a script for that to aid in his sleeping issue a couple years ago…He would forget large blocks of time which mimicked Alzheimers….we were quite concerned as his Dad died of Alzheimers….bad stuff…

    When our kids were living at home, they were expected to attend church with the family….our oldest did not like it, but he respected our expectations as a family…and he would join in on our discussions of the sermon during Sunday dinner 🙂

    For our girls, we purposely sought out a church that was not “all white”…..they never joined in the youth groups….they stayed with us during service. Our daughter who lives at home now has not “fit in” with the college group at our church….it is very much a clique and she witnessed much folly. She does teach 5/6 grade girls at Awanas, which also places her in the company of older Godly women…she thrives in that environment.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

  62. The youth groups in the two churches we’ve been a part of have had their youth group meetings at a different time than the usual services, so the teens are with the adults during regular services, but then have a special time when they can get together. Having youth group services at the same time as the general church service does not sound like a good idea.

    Like

    Reply

  64. Michelle at 7:09,

    Adopted children often have concerns about their roots, that is true. And we try to help them maintain any connection they still have. We learned that three of our children had a regular family reunion every two years. Since their bio parents were in prison, it was fine to take them. The first time we went, the folks were shocked, not even knowing the children had been adopted. Odd, since the states are required to notify family first. Anyway, we continued to take them for several years but the last time, the children asked not to go as they were too busy. The relatives were wonderful to them; welcoming all of our children as family, and they did enjoy it. Others have no chance of visiting relatives as they have been completely banned, others are gradually reconnecting. In the meantime, we did try to see to some connection with their familial heritages. One was in contact with his sister and bio mom and even had an extended visit with his mom while living here. He is now in a black community and thinks all whites are racist. That is okay.

    The caution on it, from our perspective, is to not let that loss of roots become an excuse for bad behavior. The children need to learn, as do all of us, that they are where they are and blaming the past will get them nowhere. They need to become confident capable people in their own right regardless of race or nationality or abusive history. They need to let go of the “abandonment” anger. I don’t believe the parents ought to go to huge sacrifice to reconnect, but if it is there, take advantage of it. Always letting the child know they are available to help if he wants to go looking into the culture.

    In other words, yes, it might be of interest to him, but he may just be holding on to anger and letting the family experience it, and whatever they do will just give him more stuff to throw back at them. Adoption is not easy.

    Like

    Reply

  65. So much depends on the youth group leader’s priorities in life. We’ve had some great guys who were getting engaged and married so I felt they were good role models.i have seen some larger churches that had what seemed rather silly outreaches that would not have appealed to my son. Scouts was a good program in the past. Now I would go with the Christian alternative, Yrail Life, and hope the Kid might make a friend who goes to a good church where he would like to visit. Trail Life troops are just getting started so it’s a great time to join when everyone is new to it.

    Like

    Reply

  67. The crazy thing is, my biggest objection to SS was wearing a dress on a weekend. Getting dressed was a battle my mom just finally grew weary of fighting (and she was hit and miss with church herself, during periods when she’d gone back to work she liked sleeping in on weekends, of course).

    I remember trying to argue with her that Jesus wouldn’t care what I wore. But she only replied, “But I do.” Sigh.

    It was a good try, I thought.

    Editor got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, he was biting everyone’s heads off. Another day in paradise …

    Like

    Reply

  68. Roscuro, one comment I will make about kids needing a way to connect with other kids, yes, they do. As do middle-aged people needing to connect with other middle-aged people (and with people of other ages). Most churches have some sort of Sunday school, and the church can also have informal events (picnics, game nights, etc.) for the church, or parents can host events for other kids their kids’ ages. I don’t think it needs to be a formal church-sponsored event for kids to have a place to connect, nor does it have to be an event for their age only. Personally, I think it’s better if it’s an event for people of all ages, at least a good portion of the time. But kids are also free to make their own friends and their own connections.

    A few months ago a lady in the church who’s about my age wanted to have women of the church over to her house to watch a movie, in honor of her birthday without being an official birthday party. She couldn’t invite all the women of the church (not a big enough house), but I was invited and so were the girls, one of whom went with me. A couple of teenage girls were there too. I think that events like that, living life together, are more valuable overall than programmed events. (We also have a monthly churchwide game night, drawn together by one of my girls and a couple of other young people, and a monthly church dinner, and people have meals together and go to one another’s houses, too.)

    Like

    Reply

Leave a reply to kathaleena Cancel reply