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Our Daily Thread 4-6-15

Good Morning!

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Quote of the Day

“Every man should be considered as having a right to the character which he deserves; that is, to be spoken of according to his actions.”

James Mill

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Let’s continue with the reader’s choice music selections. It’s interesting to see what you all enjoy.

Here’s my contribution. Since today is Merle Haggard’s birthday, some “Poncho and Lefty.”.

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Anyone have a QoD?

71 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 4-6-15”

  3. Good morning, at least in some places. The sky is heavy with dark clouds this morning…more rain, and looks like it will pour out of buckets. I will make sure Miss Bosley gets to the window just in case it rains cats and dogs. She would not want to miss that. ♡

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  4. Easter service was really good yesterday. I was by myself the rest of the day, but did not feel lonesome because you know Who is always with me (in addition to Miss Bosley). My husband worked all night at the office last night. He has a comfortable chair where he can catch a little shuteye. My brother went to a gathering of our relatives north of him. After he was returning home he said he should have thought to invite me. I probably would not have gone because of the distance involved.

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  5. Good morning 🙂

    Last week, I noticed Peter make a comment about the origin of the name Easter. I wanted to do a little more research before I replied and I didn’t want to detract from the celebration, so I waited until today. The comment was – and I had seen the suggestion before – that Easter is named for Ishtar, a Persian female deity. That theory has been widely advanced through the work of only one person, and his scholarship has been called into question: https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/easter/is-the-name-easter-of-pagan-origin/. I would add a few thoughts to the article.

    1. Easter is of Germanic origin, only used in German (Oster) and English. The Germanic tribes originated in Scandinavia, and it is highly unlikely that ancient Scandinavia came into contact with the religions of the ancient Middle East. Furthermore, the Christian observance of Pasche was firmly established by primarily Greek and Latin speakers in the early church. Germanic speakers called it Easter later.

    2. The Venerable Bede (700’s A.D) is the one who mentioned that as the observance of the resurrection fell during the season when the Saxons used to celebrate the goddess of Spring, the resurrection celebration came to be named after her season. However, I would observe that does not mean the season was named after the goddess – the goddess may have been named after the season. Easter comes from a root from which we also get the word east – it seems just as likely that the season could have been originally named for the sunlight returning to the dark northern lands. If English speakers decided to go all Pantheistic and attribute the return of warmth and sunlight to the awakening of a goddess every year, they would probably name that goddess Spring.

    3. The article points out that Bede’s assessment may not be fully accurate and that it was Luther and Tyndale who translated Passover as Oster/Easter, so I won’t get into that. What I did want to say that the Greek theos (a word of possibly pagan origin) was used in writing the New Testament, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to refer to both God and the panoply of pagan gods. I’m not sure that Christians need be so concerned about where the words we use came from.

    4. Finally, the argument of pagan origins for Christian holidays is often used to discredit Christians. Those who do this say, “See, Christianity is just the latest form in a continually evolving religious narrative.” Actually, Ishtar is a case in point. Many liberal (read non-Christian) Bible scholars argue that Esther and Mordecai are derived from an ancient Persian legend concerning the gods Ishtar and Marduk; saying in essence no such persons as Esther and Mordecai existed and the Jews were simply appropriating an Persian tale into their own mythology. They also do this with Christ. There was a mystery cult circulating around the time of the Early Church around a figure called Mithras, who had a death and resurrection mythology. They try to say Christ is an extension of that mythology, ignoring the fact that Justin Martyr, who wrote about a century after Christ, identifies Mithras as being a demonic imitation of Christ (in other words, early Christians were well aware of Mithras and wanted nothing to do with the cult). So, the secular world is more than happy to accept the manufactured concern over the origin of Easter and use it to their benefit. We should consider into whose hands we are playing by condemning the word Easter.

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  6. Good morning everyone.
    I listened to Kim’s 7:25 twice and still don’t understand it. I know it’s a sad song about, someone being killed. But it lost me there.
    But it was strange seeing Willie and Ray sing together. Willie has recorded with everyone. I think he used to work for Ernest Tubb.

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  7. Thank you for that, Roscuro. I see now my error.

    But I don’t see why Christians get caught up in the secular traditions of Christmas and Easter, such as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. While the origins of Santa are not pagan, the whole idea of a bunny and eggs is. Both are ancient symbols of fertility and have no place in Christian tradition.

    As for the pagan origins of Christian holidays, there is some truth to that. You see, when Constantine made Christianity the state religion in the 4th Century, he had a problem. Since the Roman citizens were used to their holidays centered on pagan gods, the established “church” had to have a way to get those non-Christian pagans to conform to the new religion. So, they took pagan holidays like Saturnalia and Christianized them. The birth of the Sun became the birth of the Son of God. There was no way to prove when Jesus was born, so they arbitrarily chose December 25, since that way they could continue there partying ways, but with a Christian twist. They did the same with other pagan groups over the centuries. Wherever Roman Catholicism went, they took the celebrations of the locals and put a “Christian” twist to them.

    I’m not saying it is a sin to celebrate in your family with Santa and the Easter Bunny, just keep them out of the church.

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  9. Oh, and having Peter for a name caused a lot of annoying teasing at school this time of year. I got so tired of getting “Cottontail” added to my name.

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  11. Peter, the only way I personally associate rabbits and chocolate with Easter is in the form of chocolate 🙂 I agree that rabbits and eggs probably have no place in the church service [I would be highly offended if our pastor started asking the children what the Easter bunny got them, for example, and it annoys me to hear Christians ask children what Santa got them.], except insofar as both are created by God and therefore good in themselves. I also see no need to stop the Ukrainian custom of decorating eggs, as I understand the joy of making something for its beauty – my mother has an egg with the scene of the empty tomb painted on it. It is possible to take back that which is good and harmless in itself from pagan associations.

    The greenery of Christmas time is another of those things that is created by God and harmless in itself but may have had pagan origins. However, God also commanded the Israelites to use greenery to make their booths during the Feast of Tabernacles. Clearly the use of greenery need not be irrevocably tied to pagan practice. It is human to like to decorate for celebrations using the things God has given us to enjoy and also the creations of our own hands – and Christians are humans. Flowers are used for decoration the world over – I doubt anyone would suggest that because Hindus wear flowers at their weddings, Christians shouldn’t wear flowers at their weddings. Eggs appear in the spring and Easter occurs in the spring – hence the association.

    As to the date of Christmas, you should read this article: https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/christmas/the-origin-of-christmas/

    P.S. I dislike the custom of Santa Claus more than Easter eggs (the Easter bunny is just silly). The Feast of St. Nicolas is actually December 4 and that is when he is celebrated in the Netherlands. Santa Claus seems to be a New World invention – a confused combination of the Dutch settlers’ St. Nicolas and the English settlers’ Father Christmas of distant, uncertain origin. Santa was popularised via a strange combination of a whimsical poem, some rather weird magazine stories (I discovered one called ‘A Kidnapped Santa Claus’ by L. Frank Baum, in which the jolly old elf thwarts the plots of Daemons to stop Christmas from coming), a parade concocted purely for the purpose of getting people to buy more things – thank you, Macy’s – and a little movie from 1947 that happened to be charmingly acted. If Santa is pagan, his is the new religion of commercialism, not an ancient mystery.

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  14. I now have “Here comes Peter Cottontail, hoppin’ down the bunny trail! Hippity, hoppity, happy Easter day ….”

    I had the record as a kid, one of those little yellow discs from back in the day.

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  15. Kim and Peter – you both made me laugh 😆 When I think of rabbits named Peter, I think of Beatrix Potter – and my Little Niece (her younger sister is now Baby Niece) sitting listening raptly to Peter Rabbit.

    I had to write a sonnet for the writing course I took last year. I got a perfect mark and I thought its subject was germane to the discussion:

    The winter solstice season comes, and brings
    A month for getting gifts in superstore.
    In crowds of pushing people, clutching things,
    The search becomes a nightmare chase for more.

    How did this time of year commercialize
    With wishing catalogue and jingling ad?
    When did we lose our wondering child’s eyes?
    Then, just a star or song would make us glad.

    A star was first to light the darkest month.
    A child, who gave to us the season’s joy.
    A song was sung at the marvelous birth,
    And gifts were for the poor, yet precious boy.

    Capitalists can have their Holiday;
    I’ll keep the light and joy of Christmas Day. – by H. J.

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  16. One of the cities we cover has banned the term “Easter” bunny in its news releases about special holiday events being planned at the library, etc.

    It is now simply referred to as “The Bunny.”

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  18. All the guys I know who were named Peter, went by” Pete” or, in one case, “JP”.
    I don’t see how they could make much of “Cotten”.
    I have been introduced as “Mr.Skull” as an innocent mistake.
    (I told them my name rhymes with “Skull, dull”. They often pronounce it as it rhymes with “mule”.
    My last name is Shull, BTW. )

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  21. There is no end of ways children can find to distort names or tease each other.

    I wasn’t sure how to share a video, but I guess I did do it. One of my daughters performs this song in church with a few other singers and musicians.

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  22. 😳 I just realize that in my post about the Easter bunny and eggs, my first sentence has chocolate twice. That should read “the only way I personally associate Easter with rabbits and *eggs…” Clearly, I had chocolate on the brain.

    Bob, the Cadbury Bunny may take all the oomph out of the Easter Bunny, but the Energizer Bunny puts it right back 🙂

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  24. We never included Santa or the Easter bunny, nor dressing up for Easter or Easter baskets or any of that. One or two of my older brothers bought us chocolate Easter bunnies a time or two, and I liked that. But I never associated any of that stuff with Easter.

    I am more “bothered” by the Easter bunny than by Santa, simply because I think that the celebration of the resurrection is far more significant than the celebration of Jesus as a baby. The incarnation is very important, but Christmas tends to focus on how He came as a baby, and I think that makes it way too easy to turn it into cute and sentimental. (He came in weakness more than in “cuteness.”) I don’t think it’s wrong to celebrate the incarnation or His coming as a baby, but neither do I think it is in any way necessary to our faith. (I don’t think the early church did, as far as I know.)

    So I’m totally fine with Christmas being mostly a cultural / family holiday, not a religious one. As to Easter, the first day of the week (Sunday / the Lord’s day) is the day we worship, not the sabbath (Saturday), and the resurrection is the reason for that. So Easter is an “optional” celebration, too, but I find it helpful.

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  26. BTW, the Easter Bunny isn’t. That’s to say, it wasn’t a rabbit that was apparently held in veneration in ancient pagan traditions; but its relative, the larger hare. I read somewhere that the ancient people thought the hare was androgonous – a hare could change its gender.
    Clearly, it’s a case of haresy.
    (Couldn’t resist)

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  29. I don’t really mind the easter bunny. And I do love candy…… 🙂

    But Christ’s resurrection needs to be the focus. I don’t mind the extras, as long as what’s really important is stressed first and foremost.

    The food and family is a nice bonus too. 🙂

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  31. Well, don’t look to me to shoot the “Easter” bunny.

    I grew up with it all — Sunday School, new dresses for Easter, dying eggs, the proverbial egg-filled basket — and “the” bunny. Along with Santa at Christmas.

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  32. I remember doing a story years ago about Christians who shunned the Christmas trees & all the decorations … They frankly struck me as a very grim bunch. 😦

    Then for the same story I interviewed the local Presbyterian minister (mainline, but a well respected minister whom I always thought was much more orthodox than the drifting denomination he was in) — he just exuded the joy of the holiday, said he loved it all, the lights, the decorations, the trees, and, yes, even the shopping. !! He made me smile. His joy was contagious.

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  33. Donna,
    I like it all except trying to get my wife a present for Christmas. If she wants it, she just gets it. Except canaries! Since she is a breeder and shows canaries, I wouldn’t dare choose one for her!

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  34. Kim & Donna, my parents’ tree always has an antique glass ball that has a cut-out with a little metal Santa in his sleigh (I hung it myself this year); when we were children, we always put up the decorations to the sound of the old classic recordings of “Frosty”, “Silver Bells”, etc.; we used to watch “Miracle on 34th Street” and “It’s a Wonderful Life” (1947, not the newer one) every Christmas; and we had Easter baskets and hunts. Some of my cynicism over the commercialization comes from the fact that not even those traditions mean anything any more. The cheap chocolate that is more flavouring than chocolate, the flimsy decorations mass manufactured in China, the umpteenth Santa Clause movie – even the secular world is beginning to seem jaded by the unrelenting production. There is no moderation. It is too much of a good thing.

    But I have seen the other side. Before ATI, we encountered another homeschooling family (actually we encountered two such families). The mother had apparently been a hippie type before she got married and allowed her background to colour her view of the world. Fairy tales and C.S. Lewis were out, Christmas was out – you get the idea. One of my siblings later said that visiting their home was like going to a very dark place. However, we were influenced to get rid of our fairy tales, Narnia books and The Hobbit – and felt guilty about liking Christmas. The children were the same ages as us in both families. In the one family, those children spun out of control once they hit puberty. The other family has splintered completely. So much for protecting your children from pagan influences. So, I understand the value of enjoying the silly things of life.

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  35. Kim, I can enjoy the beauty of Christmas decorations, and I always figured I’d do the tooth fairy with my kids. And when I was a child, Halloween was one of my favorite days. I mean, what’s not to like? From my perspective, it was a holiday solely for children, we got to play with construction paper to but out cats and bats and owls, we dressed up, and we went door to door to get candy. When I hear parents who don’t want to celebrate it because it’s evil, I want to tell them it doesn’t have to be evil; let it be innocent, childish fun.

    And I have no problem with Santa Claus, as long as he isn’t taught as a real person; let him be make-believe fun. The Easter bunny I have no connection with at all; I have never liked talking, clothes-wearing animals, and he’s just not interesting to me at all, and he’s far less interesting than the real reason for the celebration.

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  36. Childhood ends much too early these days. Let them enjoy the fun while they can. Some Smarty Tarty at school is going to clue them in all too fast.
    I don’t care to have my celebrations associated with pagan celebrations. I have always wanted to do up every occasion because my mother didn’t do it when I was growing up. To me yesterday was sad. We got up and went to 8am church instead of our regular time. We came home and Mr P went to the sofa. I took BG her basket. They were all at her Nana’s. I got there about the time they were fixing their plates so I left. Last night we had steak and baked potatoes for dinner. If we don’t hold to some of these traditions we are going to lose our identities and traditions.

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  39. Interesting, because an editor with one of our sister papers once, in passing, mentioned that they weren’t allowed to celebrate Halloween or go trick-or-treating when she was a kid, they could only to the sanctioned church “harvest” party. Her parents had converted to Christianity (Calvary Chapel-style) when she was little and it sounded to me as if they took to it maybe a little too rigidly in the beginning.

    I always wondered if that had something to do with what seemed like her drift away from it all (I don’t know her well and she seems to have a very good relationship with her parents; I do recall, however, that she was politically very liberal & one of the more vocal supporters of gay marriage in the newsroom when that issue came up several years ago; she didn’t strike me as a believer at that time, although she may be now, I don’t know).

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  40. Michelle, I’m not a subscriber to the WSJ. Can you give us a poignant quote or two, a strong paragraph, or a summary from you?

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  43. What ever happened to “To the victor go the spoils of war” and “Those who win write the history”?

    Why on earth would we paint ourselves as the bad guy?

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  44. in response to Michelle on Facebook: my taxes are done and I paid the three dollars I owed in state taxes. 🙂 One of the perks for living overseas. However now that I am home, taxes are being taken out of my pay. Hoping for something of a refund next year.
    I need to get to work on my PNG taxes. Don’t even remember when they are due. Whoops!

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  45. I don’t know, Kim, and it’s disturbing. Kids are so confused about the Constitution (if they even know anything), that to paint us this way is disingenous at best and ethically wrong at the worst.

    It reminds me of a book my cousin lent me once about the Chinese cell groups that had to confess their sins to one another. My cousin is a socialist (we had run into each other backpacking in Europe and that’s the only English book he would give me. The old pre-Kindle days), but he was surprised when I told him it reminded me of elements of Christianity.

    Scripture tells us to confess our sins to one another, repent and be saved. Chinese little red book says to confess your sins to one another if we have to beat them out of you and then let us beat you again.

    Okay, maybe it didn’t say that, but that was the main idea . . .

    It’s the need to insist America isn’t special, I guess, but heavens, kids have watched WWII movies, they must have some ideas of the truth, right?

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  46. My FB post on taxes is that California state taxes are due April 14; federal taxes are due, as usual, on April 15. Turbo Tax told us that when we printed everything out. April 14 is a Tuesday, I’m mystified as to why CA would move up the tax deadline a day and did anybody else know about it except me reading the fine print before I signed?

    Could be an attempt to get late fees, could it?

    Nah, I’m just being cynical. Off to confess sin if I can find anyone . . . 🙂

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  47. I didn’t look up the article since American history is taught and viewed with a different perspective outside America – not necessarily incorrect, just that we see a different side to actions taken. What interests me is that you Christians are concerned with maintaining your country’s reputation in spite of the fact that you think it is becoming immoral and corrupt. Canadian Christians, by contrast, run down their country. I constantly heard growing up that America was the morally superior nation – when something like gay rights was discussed (and this was before our law was passed) the U.S. was held up as a paragon of virtue. The pastor yesterday in the sermon said in a parenthetical statement that sometimes he is downright ashamed of being Canadian. I often feel I’m in the minority for really liking my country among Christians. I have no trouble admitting that Canada has been wrong in the past (interning Japanese Canadians during, turning away Jewish immigrants in the 1930s, forcibly removing Native children from their homes for education in the 50s and 60s); and I certainly don’t agree with certain laws or rulings today – but I can accept the fact that my country isn’t perfect. Like Paul and Jesus, I love it anyway (Jesus weeping over Jerusalem, Paul saying that he could almost be damned for the salvation of his people). Most Canadian Christians don’t seem to be able to do that, at least not the ones in my circles.

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  48. Painting the U.S. as the bad guy goes back a ways to when I was in college. It’s more pronounced now, of course, but our political science/history professors in the 1970s generally took and taught/preached that viewpoint.

    Just ordered “Bad Religion” by Ross Douthat on kindle. Anyone else read it?

    Another post I read earlier looked at the rising numbers of people in the U.S. who literally had no connection to any religion — had virtually never been to church or synagogue. Ever.

    That’s mind boggling in many ways to those of us who were raised in a culture where all families had some tie to a particular denomination, even if the practice of the faith was somewhat nominal.

    But I certainly know of several colleagues who are raising their children specifically to not have any religious beliefs & connections.

    It will be interesting to see this country in another generation or two … Or maybe just kind of sad.

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  49. Kim, I thought of you yesterday. I was listening to a public radio station which was about to broadcast a performance of Handel’s Messiah, and the announcer pointed out something about the text that I’d never heard before. I knew that the King James Version of the Bible was quoted in the libretto, but I also learned yesterday that parts of the text come from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

    I did not know that, and was interested to find out more, but just then, my husband changed the station. 😉

    I looked up more on that today and found this PDF, which I thought was pretty cool. Evidently, all but one of the songs with Psalm references use the wording from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. Isn’t that the one you quote from, Kim, from time to time?

    Here’s the PDF for anyone who is interested: http://jubalslyre.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Text-Study-of-Handels-Messiah.pdf

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  51. It’s hard to explain, but America has had an almost mythic quality to it in modern history, I think. It was a grand experiment in self-government that worked on so many levels for many years.

    Our frustration & disappointment comes from seeing so much of that slip-sliding away — apparently without much understanding among the general population of what is truly being lost.

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  52. Thanks for sharing that 6. The quotes I use are probably from the 1979 BCP. The 1928 version is still my preferred one.
    I believe from past studies that it follows the order of service
    Kyrie
    Creed
    Santos
    Gloria
    Allelujah

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  53. Over the weekend Michelle said she always wonders where Jesus spend Saturday before the Resurrection. It hit me yesterday afternoon that the church answered this question in the Apostle’s Creed. Many churches not longer use this.

    The Apostle’s Creed
    I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

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  56. God claims His own, that’s for sure. No matter what.

    But I also think, in general, that ties to religious institutions help provide a common ethic for a nation, including nonbelievers. It can ground society in what is right and what is wrong.

    I think what we’re seeing now is a disintegration of that, perhaps in part (or maybe more centrally) because of the nation (first the people, then the government) moving away from its Judeo-Christian roots.

    I know, it’s (only) the city of man.

    But we are to love our neighbors — and so we should want the best for them and their children.

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  57. KarenO, from yesterday’s thread:

    I’ve been reading your posts about “YF” for a while now, but I think I am missing some context. (Maybe you started mentioning her in my pre-WMB days?) Anyway, may I ask you some questions about her to gain a little context? Feel free to ignore this, or answer in the negative, if you don’t want to address my questions. I won’t be offended if you don’t respond in the affirmative. 🙂

    From my (probably limited) perspective, I see “YF” (which I understand to mean “Young Friend”) as antagonistic and derisive toward you and the values you hold dear. My main question is, how did this woman go from being an acquaintance to being a friend? What have I missed?

    You and I might not define friendship the same way, and that’s fine. But to me, friendship that is one-sided is not really a friendship at all. You have responded to her with patience and love, as a friend would. How has she shown herself to be a friend to you in the past? (Because it appears to me that she is not at all showing herself to be that way now.) And how has she earned the right to continue to be called “friend” by you?

    I ask out of love, Karen, and a spirit of sincere inquiry, not challenge. It concerns me that you are in a relationship with someone who appears to me to be very toxic. That’s never healthy.

    Is there some benefit you are getting from this experience that I don’t see?

    Spoken in love. {{{hugs}}}

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  58. Kim mentioned that over the weekend, Michelle asked what Jesus was doing on Saturday.
    No one knows. There is a cryptic verse in I Peter 3:19 that says that “he preached to the spirits in prison”. The commentaries give three different interpretations, none of which I completely follow. Kim printed the Apostles creed. It probably presumes this in the statement about descending into hell. I know the Apostles Creed, but we Baptists never recite it..
    That “he descended into hell” is speculation, so far as I can determine.

    I don’t know, but I suspect he wasn’t just waiting for Sunday. He definitely hadn’t gone to heaven. John 20:17 He told Mary he had not yet ascended to the Father.
    When Jesus said, .”It is finished”, it was an all encompassing statement. I preached about that once.
    I also once preached a sermon I called. “The Man who Crucified Jesus”. It wasn’t Pilate, nor the soldiers, nor even the priests. It was the man in the crowd who cried “crucify him”. This wouldn’t have happened without him.
    The man who shouted that probably went home to his wife and kids, not knowing what he had done.

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  59. 6 arrows, I believe YF is actually a close friend of one of Karen’s daughters (and who exerts, for now, considerable influence over the daughter’s thinking) — and so Karen has been trying to gently share her more biblical Christian influence via some of these discussion posts. So “friend” is probably a very general/loose term in that sense.

    Don’t mean to be presumptuous in answering on her behalf, but I believe that is the case.

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  60. “Descended into hell” has been a problematic phrase in the creed (which we often recite); the Reformed churches, however, generally take that to refer to Jesus’ taking on our sins on the cross and thus (temporarily) experiencing separation from God.

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  61. 6 Arrows – Donna is right. YF is the daughter of a friend, AND my younger daughter’s good friend. 🙂 She is the older daughter in the McK family, & she, her sister, & Chrissy share a room. She does have an undue influence on Chrissy.

    For one thing, Chrissy used to be against abortion, but isn’t now.

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  63. OK, thanks, Karen (and Donna). 🙂

    Meanwhile, I noticed that I didn’t mention anything specific from your comments on yesterday’s thread, Karen, even though I prefaced my post above at 6:01 with …from yesterday’s thread. Disorganized thinking and bad follow-through there. 😉

    You mentioned yesterday that you “will probably [detach from YF] very soon.” I think that’s an excellent idea, Karen, for a few reasons.

    First, it may cause you less worry for Chrissy if you’re not drinking in a steady diet of YF’s strident objections to orthodox Christianity. I’m not advocating a head-in-the-sand approach, but it’s easy, I think, for us moms to worry about all the bad influences on our adult children who are out there in the world, especially if they have other challenges to begin with, like Asperger’s, which I believe you mentioned you think your daughter has.

    But whatever is happening “out there,” we can be assured, as Mumsee said, that God will prevail. Sometimes I think it’s harder to look through the eyes of faith when we’re very focused on earthly matters that look discouraging or hopeless.

    Going back to my comment about YF’s stridency, I wonder if those (I don’t know if you’re the only one) who have tried to offer a different perspective from her obviously unbiblical stances would completely disengage, if she would tone down her rhetoric? Could it be that her strong rebuttals are teaching Chrissy how to argue the pro-abortion side, or any other stance her friend takes?

    If you walk away, and the back-and-forth with you and YF ceases, would your quiet example, without words, encourage Chrissy to follow your lead some day, voluntarily extricating herself from that type of relationship with a bitter, angry individual?

    I think it could. And I know you pray for that, Karen. Remember that the prayers of the righteous avail much.

    Finally, I think the most important reason to disengage is because YF has shown herself to be a fool. We’re told in Proverbs 26 to “answer a fool according to his folly…” (verse 5), and to “answer not a fool according to his folly…” (verse 4).

    I’m no biblical scholar, but, to me, those passages tell me there are times to engage, and times to disengage. YF is foolish, and you have tried to answer her so she wouldn’t be “wise in [her] own conceit.” (26:5) But she will not listen.

    Ask God for wisdom on when to wash your hands of YF. She is in His hands. And so are your daughters. God is faithful.

    Keep praying, Karen. (And I know you will.) I will, too, for all of you. ❤

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  64. Thank you, 6 Arrows. I had actually decided not to comment any further on YF’s posts several weeks ago, shortly before she started her Facebook fast, after a particular comment she made to me that I found quite insulting. But since she started the “fast” shortly after that, she probably didn’t realize I had stopped commenting.

    That’s why I didn’t comment right away on that recent post. But it was eating at me, & I felt I needed to once again point her in a more biblical direction. (She really thinks she loves Jesus so much, & I think she believes in the Bible, but I also think she reads the Bible through a filter of “worldly wisdom”.)

    Turns out she didn’t intentionally delete my comment after all. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I sent her a private message asking if she had deleted it, & if so, why. She said she was on Facebook on her phone when she saw a comment pop up, but then it wasn’t there. It is possible she accidentally deleted it, or it was one of those annoying Facebook glitches.

    So I told her (still in private message) what my comment had been, but I did soften some of the wording just a tiny bit, without changing the message.

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  65. I, personally, would probably have a hard time refraining from commenting to someone like that if I decided not to respond but kept reading. But that’s me.

    Probably a good thing I’m not on Facebook. 🙂 I am collecting all sorts of reasons why I don’t want to be on there, and I think I’m up to about #389. 😛

    (That # is “number,” not “hashtag.”) 🙂

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  66. FB is interesting — I’ve seen people use it to good effect in discussions (and there are always “lurkers” reading those more theological posts as well, I suspect). Some won’t hear and then I agree, it’s best to shake the dust from your feet and leave them to themselves, sadly. There are a few on my list like that — others I feel I just don’t know well enough in person to engage on that level — and I’ve learned to just “scroll on by.”

    FB can sometimes quickly devolve into a series of back-and-forth drive-by’s, as I call them — people spouting off their overly-simplistic & partisan arguments with clearly no intention of starting a serious discussion. Campaign seasons are particularly intense & difficult, especially if most of your contacts are on the other side of the fence politically (as most of mine are). I’ve noticed that 2016 is ramping up early, I sense that many on the left are feeling frantic to keep hold of the power they’ve become accustomed to wielding in the nation.

    But speaking the truth with gentleness at times can also make a striking point on some of the conversations. And I suspect God uses his people on FB just like He uses so many other communication avenues to reach the lost.

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  67. Re: taxes- Iowa lets you wait until April 30 to file the state forms. But there are 75 lines and no short form! I have filled out forms in 4 states and Iowa is by far the hardest. (Missouri is the most confusing.)

    Donna @ 4:21 pm- No apologies to me? 😉

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  68. I trimmed down my clothing supply today, and kept only what I liked best and/or used most, bagging up the rest to give away (or throwing away what was too far in disrepair).

    I now have five dresses, six skirts, two pairs of pants, seven short-sleeved or mid-length-sleeved tops, six long-sleeved tops, four sweaters, two shorts/tops sets, two other pairs of shorts, two nightgowns, two robes, about a dozen pairs of socks, we’ll skip the undergarments details 😉 … five coats, four pairs of shoes, and one pair of boots.

    Oh, and one pair of mittens and one pair of gloves. I think that covers it. There might be a couple items in the laundry that I missed.

    That still seems like an awful lot when I list it all that way. Do we really need all this stuff?

    Tomorrow I tackle the books — more culling. I know I don’t need all of the ones that are hanging around.

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  69. Chas- The only person I didn’t mind calling me Pete was my father-in-law. There is a teacher who does so, but I cannot convince him I don’t like it.

    Then there were my nephews who called their teddy bears “Pete”. I guess I made a good impression on them when they were toddlers.

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  71. Not quite caught up on this blog but ya’ll have had some interesting conversations going on….
    I am so excited that tomorrow one of my “babies” is coming for dinner….she is now 23 and a lovely young woman…she and her parents have been in Colorado visiting her Uncle for Easter and tomorrow is our turn for a visit and a hug….it’s going to be crazy fun around here…I just can’t stop smiling 🙂

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