One more thought on the gay wedding story from yesterday. Not wanting to rent to a gay wedding is not discrimination against a group of people. it is merely a refusal to offer a product that violates one’s religious views. if couple had wanted this for a birthday party they probably would have gotten it. If they had sent a straight friend to rent it for them, they wouldn’t have gotten it. It’s not about the customer it’s about the product. You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT and you can’t force a Baptist restaurant owner to sell you a beer, so how can you force people to do gay weddings?
kbells — its a good argument but you are making a distinction between a “normal” wedding and a “gay” wedding. The courts don’t. You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT because it doesn’t sell bacon.
HRW, We are making a distinction between a real wedding and a “gay” wedding. If two people want to play in a sandbox and call themselves Martians, that is one thing. It is another for the government to force everyone to call them Martians. A “wedding” between two men is no more a real wedding than is a “wedding” between a man and a sheep.
I am beginning to understand how liberals think. I predict the first man/sheep “wedding” will either involve a white man and a black sheep or a black man and a white sheep. That way anyone who objects will be labeled as a segregationist.
its a good argument but you are making a distinction between a “normal” wedding and a “gay” wedding. The courts don’t.
To highlight how stupid this whole mess is, you all may be familiar with the Colorado baker who was found to have violated civil rights and ordered to go through sensitivity training because he refused to make a same-sex wedding cake. This was in Colorado, a state which bans same sex marriage. Pretty stupid, although it doesn’t have anything to do with determining who is right or wrong about this stuff. Just pretty stupid, as are all these attempts at policing the consciences of citizens.
You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT because it doesn’t sell bacon.
Why not? Are they making a distinction between is “normal” meat and gentile meat? Sounds like religious discrimination to me.
1/8 Indian? Cool!
Which Indian nation? There are 3 different Indian casinos within 30 miles of me, so there must be 3 different nations, or maybe just two Rancherias and another nation, around here. I am a little confused.
Bob, according to my Dad, Cherokee and 1/8 is 4 times more than Ward Churchill “claims” to have. Another quarter or so of me is offended by the Norte Dame Fighting Irish. Mostly by how they’ve played lately.
So why haven’t Scandinavians protested the Minnesota Vikings? And where are the Christians protesting the New Orleans Saints? I think a few people are thin skinned and need to chill!
Putin is “accidentally” correct about Syria. He was more concerned about losing Russia’s Mediterranean naval base. Bush and then Obama supported the Syrian rebels because Russia would lose its last foreign naval base. Old fashioned cold war politics. There was a secular opposition to Assad but they were mostly urban intellectuals and professionals, not the the type of people to lead an insurgent army, hence the religious rebels backed by the Saudis.
The Scandinavians are proud of their Viking heritage hence no protest. Most natives don’t like the term “redskins” hence the opposition whereas the Chicago Blackhawks draws no opposition from native groups (besides its a really cool jersey).
Putin has consistently opposed invasions/revolutions in Middle Eastern countries. Unlike morons in Washington, he knows that such events destabilize other countries and can lead to horrible, unintended consequences.
Unlike US presidents, Putin leads a country where the Christian church has a great deal of influence. Hence, he opposes the promotion of perversion to minors while the US is fully engaged in such promotion. Putin has also opposed actions which would put Middle Eastern Christians at risk of death or severe persecution. US leaders may whine a little about the persecution, but they never consider the possible effects of invasions/revolutions before they start or support such actions.
Currently, Ukraine tries to protect its children from perverts. If it continues to move toward the EU and away from Russia, Ukrainian children may soon be subject to the same homosexual propaganda as US children and Western European children.
This will give you a chuckle — Maureen Dowd on the president’s odd golf obsession.
“FORE! Score? And seven trillion rounds ago, our forecaddies brought forth on this continent a new playground, conceived by Robert Trent Jones, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal when it comes to spending as much time on the links as possible — even when it seems totally inappropriate, like moments after making a solemn statement condemning the grisly murder of a 40-year-old American journalist beheaded by ISIL. … ”
Solar, I heard that news last week — not familiar with her or her songs (at least that I know of), but one of my Christian FB friends praised her courage last week, saying she was supporting her all the way. 😦 Interesting to me how so many Christians have been swept into that mindset following the wider culture.
I remember reading years ago that Michael Card was one contemporary Christian artist who was set apart because he always subjected the lyrics in songs he was writing to the elders of his church.
Amen, SolarPancake. Western, and particularly American Christianity has had a huge influence on Global Christianity in the last several centuries. It is time for Christians in Asia, Africa, Latin America and Eastern Europe to reject the perverted form of “Christianity” that is growing in the US. The church is nearly dead in Western Europe. It may be better for the US to have a small church than a larger perverted church.
Putin opposed Middle Eastern invasions because the US was invading or destabilizing mostly ex-USSR client states — Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria — more Cold War style politics. Interestingly the peace movement in 2003 were one of the few western voices who pointed out Hussien was a secularist who allowed religious minorities freedom to worship and to be part of the government.
As a good KGB man, Putin learned religion is the opiate of the masses. As a cynical authoritarian leader he encourages a state religion to keep the population docile and in line. Hence his conservative moral position as well as support for the Orthodox churches in the middle east.
Pro EU Ukrainians should read the fine print of their IMF/EU deal. They might change their minds and ask Putin to take them back — austerity is on its way for Ukraine.
That’s too bad, Donna J, and as you and Ricky W may be alluding, it’s the symptom of an immature, poorly instructed church.
Donna J, I take it you and your FB friend are referring to Jennifer Knapp, a nominal Christian artist who had a song that got some “secular” radio play in the 90s and who “came out” about 10 years ago. The article also mentions a number of other artists, and a trend toward caving on the gay marriage thing. I was especially disappointed with the Caedmon’s Call guy. That group was actually one I listened to now and then, although admittedly not too closely, so they may have been sneaking in garbage I didn’t catch.
All those “artists” should be subject to their church’s authority, as you mention Michael Card being. In many cases, I’m sure the offense is so bad that they should be disciplined by their elders, possibly to the point of excommunication should they not repent. But although that’s true, I also mention it kind of tongue in cheek, because I’m sure many of those artists and their churches, if they even attend at all, have no concept of church discipline, etc., in the first place.
I believe my FB friend has remained in the Methodist denomination of her youth, although she follows some evangelical speakers. But of course her denomination would not likely take her to task about that issue since the entire church is so conflicted & waffling on it at this point (and will probably cave entirely soon enough).
You may agree that for the churchmember in the pews, just holding a pro-gay marriage opinion might not rise to the level of church discipline. In some cases, it could, I think, but not necessarily all. I was referring to these artists who profess Christ and publicly voice support for gay marriage, or claim to BE gay, themselves. A church is fostering a lie if they maintain such people on their membership rolls.
Wandering Views 
One more thought on the gay wedding story from yesterday. Not wanting to rent to a gay wedding is not discrimination against a group of people. it is merely a refusal to offer a product that violates one’s religious views. if couple had wanted this for a birthday party they probably would have gotten it. If they had sent a straight friend to rent it for them, they wouldn’t have gotten it. It’s not about the customer it’s about the product. You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT and you can’t force a Baptist restaurant owner to sell you a beer, so how can you force people to do gay weddings?
LikeLiked by 3 people
kbells — its a good argument but you are making a distinction between a “normal” wedding and a “gay” wedding. The courts don’t. You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT because it doesn’t sell bacon.
LikeLike
HRW, We are making a distinction between a real wedding and a “gay” wedding. If two people want to play in a sandbox and call themselves Martians, that is one thing. It is another for the government to force everyone to call them Martians. A “wedding” between two men is no more a real wedding than is a “wedding” between a man and a sheep.
LikeLike
I am beginning to understand how liberals think. I predict the first man/sheep “wedding” will either involve a white man and a black sheep or a black man and a white sheep. That way anyone who objects will be labeled as a segregationist.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Why doesn’t a Jewish deli sell bacon, and how come their reasoning is acceptable?
LikeLike
its a good argument but you are making a distinction between a “normal” wedding and a “gay” wedding. The courts don’t.
To highlight how stupid this whole mess is, you all may be familiar with the Colorado baker who was found to have violated civil rights and ordered to go through sensitivity training because he refused to make a same-sex wedding cake. This was in Colorado, a state which bans same sex marriage. Pretty stupid, although it doesn’t have anything to do with determining who is right or wrong about this stuff. Just pretty stupid, as are all these attempts at policing the consciences of citizens.
LikeLike
We know Putin was right about perversion. It seems he was right about other issues as well.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/22/was-putin-right-about-syria/
LikeLike
On another issue, all my golf buddies here in Texas are now wearing Redskins hats.
LikeLike
You can’t force a Jewish deli to serve you a BLT because it doesn’t sell bacon.
Why not? Are they making a distinction between is “normal” meat and gentile meat? Sounds like religious discrimination to me.
LikeLike
Ricky, I am 1/8 Indian and am therefore 1/8 offended. 🙂
LikeLike
kbells1
1/8 Indian? Cool!
Which Indian nation? There are 3 different Indian casinos within 30 miles of me, so there must be 3 different nations, or maybe just two Rancherias and another nation, around here. I am a little confused.
LikeLike
kbells1, I am not quite 1/8 Indian, but I’m definitely more Indian than Elizabeth Warren 🙂
LikeLike
Bob, according to my Dad, Cherokee and 1/8 is 4 times more than Ward Churchill “claims” to have. Another quarter or so of me is offended by the Norte Dame Fighting Irish. Mostly by how they’ve played lately.
LikeLike
So why haven’t Scandinavians protested the Minnesota Vikings? And where are the Christians protesting the New Orleans Saints? I think a few people are thin skinned and need to chill!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Putin is “accidentally” correct about Syria. He was more concerned about losing Russia’s Mediterranean naval base. Bush and then Obama supported the Syrian rebels because Russia would lose its last foreign naval base. Old fashioned cold war politics. There was a secular opposition to Assad but they were mostly urban intellectuals and professionals, not the the type of people to lead an insurgent army, hence the religious rebels backed by the Saudis.
The Scandinavians are proud of their Viking heritage hence no protest. Most natives don’t like the term “redskins” hence the opposition whereas the Chicago Blackhawks draws no opposition from native groups (besides its a really cool jersey).
LikeLike
Putin has consistently opposed invasions/revolutions in Middle Eastern countries. Unlike morons in Washington, he knows that such events destabilize other countries and can lead to horrible, unintended consequences.
LikeLike
Unlike US presidents, Putin leads a country where the Christian church has a great deal of influence. Hence, he opposes the promotion of perversion to minors while the US is fully engaged in such promotion. Putin has also opposed actions which would put Middle Eastern Christians at risk of death or severe persecution. US leaders may whine a little about the persecution, but they never consider the possible effects of invasions/revolutions before they start or support such actions.
LikeLike
Currently, Ukraine tries to protect its children from perverts. If it continues to move toward the EU and away from Russia, Ukrainian children may soon be subject to the same homosexual propaganda as US children and Western European children.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/01/the-closeted-revolution-kiev-s-gays-keep-quiet-to-deny-putin-a-propaganda-win.html
LikeLike
This will give you a chuckle — Maureen Dowd on the president’s odd golf obsession.
“FORE! Score? And seven trillion rounds ago, our forecaddies brought forth on this continent a new playground, conceived by Robert Trent Jones, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal when it comes to spending as much time on the links as possible — even when it seems totally inappropriate, like moments after making a solemn statement condemning the grisly murder of a 40-year-old American journalist beheaded by ISIL. … ”
LikeLike
Another in a long list of reasons to ignore “Contemporary Christian Music”:
http://theweek.com/article/index/266671/is-the-christian-music-industry-liberalizing-on-gay-marriage?
LikeLike
Solar, I heard that news last week — not familiar with her or her songs (at least that I know of), but one of my Christian FB friends praised her courage last week, saying she was supporting her all the way. 😦 Interesting to me how so many Christians have been swept into that mindset following the wider culture.
I remember reading years ago that Michael Card was one contemporary Christian artist who was set apart because he always subjected the lyrics in songs he was writing to the elders of his church.
LikeLike
Amen, SolarPancake. Western, and particularly American Christianity has had a huge influence on Global Christianity in the last several centuries. It is time for Christians in Asia, Africa, Latin America and Eastern Europe to reject the perverted form of “Christianity” that is growing in the US. The church is nearly dead in Western Europe. It may be better for the US to have a small church than a larger perverted church.
LikeLike
Putin opposed Middle Eastern invasions because the US was invading or destabilizing mostly ex-USSR client states — Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria — more Cold War style politics. Interestingly the peace movement in 2003 were one of the few western voices who pointed out Hussien was a secularist who allowed religious minorities freedom to worship and to be part of the government.
As a good KGB man, Putin learned religion is the opiate of the masses. As a cynical authoritarian leader he encourages a state religion to keep the population docile and in line. Hence his conservative moral position as well as support for the Orthodox churches in the middle east.
Pro EU Ukrainians should read the fine print of their IMF/EU deal. They might change their minds and ask Putin to take them back — austerity is on its way for Ukraine.
LikeLike
That’s too bad, Donna J, and as you and Ricky W may be alluding, it’s the symptom of an immature, poorly instructed church.
Donna J, I take it you and your FB friend are referring to Jennifer Knapp, a nominal Christian artist who had a song that got some “secular” radio play in the 90s and who “came out” about 10 years ago. The article also mentions a number of other artists, and a trend toward caving on the gay marriage thing. I was especially disappointed with the Caedmon’s Call guy. That group was actually one I listened to now and then, although admittedly not too closely, so they may have been sneaking in garbage I didn’t catch.
All those “artists” should be subject to their church’s authority, as you mention Michael Card being. In many cases, I’m sure the offense is so bad that they should be disciplined by their elders, possibly to the point of excommunication should they not repent. But although that’s true, I also mention it kind of tongue in cheek, because I’m sure many of those artists and their churches, if they even attend at all, have no concept of church discipline, etc., in the first place.
LikeLike
I believe my FB friend has remained in the Methodist denomination of her youth, although she follows some evangelical speakers. But of course her denomination would not likely take her to task about that issue since the entire church is so conflicted & waffling on it at this point (and will probably cave entirely soon enough).
LikeLike
Meaning the Methodists, not the church as a whole. Not yet, anyway.
LikeLike
You may agree that for the churchmember in the pews, just holding a pro-gay marriage opinion might not rise to the level of church discipline. In some cases, it could, I think, but not necessarily all. I was referring to these artists who profess Christ and publicly voice support for gay marriage, or claim to BE gay, themselves. A church is fostering a lie if they maintain such people on their membership rolls.
LikeLike