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Our Daily Thread 2-15-14

Good Morning!

It’s Saturday!

We got 20 inches of snow, with 3-4 more today, and I’m in pretty bad shape as a result of clean-up efforts, so some posts are brief today.

I selected Kim’s header photo today in order to help us East coast folks think warm thoughts. 🙂

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Quote of the Day

“The problem with winter sports is that – follow me closely here – they generally take place in winter.”

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First today, some Josh Turner.

And this one kinda sums up the last few days.

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Anyone have a QoD?

79 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 2-15-14”

  4. That photo was taken “Down by the Bay”. Fairhope has a city park and pier “down the Bay hill”. To the left of the fountain they have opened a new section of part with a walking path. Around one tree they have fashioned a seating area with benches made of rock. Some people have gotten married there–not me. I was sitting on the bench when I took the photo. The body of water is Mobile Bay. It is brackish water, meaning a mix of fresh waters from the Mobile Delta and salt water from the Gulf of Mexico. The area is also a National Bird Sanctuary…Actually, I think the entire town of Fairhope is.
    For all the national talk of how out of shape and unhealthy we Alabamians are we have a walking path from Spanish Fort all the way to Gulf Shores/Orange Beach. Many people walk, run, and bike this path.

    This morning I have to work. I need to put together everything that needs to be down when a new agent joins the company, I have promised Baby Girl we will do something together today. That usually involves shopping but today should be OK, because I need a new outfit to put in the work rotation. We are supposed to have sunshine today although it won’t be above the 50’s in tempurature. Sunshine makes me happy…even if I have to wrap up in a blanket I plan to sit in the sun today. It’s either prozac or sunshine! 😉 That’s why the above photo makes me smile.

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  5. hmmm…. how’s it go, a little John Denver….. sunshine on my shoulders makes me happy

    just lots and lots of rain here Saturday seems to be over, a very quiet day

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  6. Yes, you East Coasters got this one worse than we Mid-westerners got it. You got the ice, we only got snow. Lovely view you have, Kim. We’ve seen some pretty pictures this week. Thank you AJ. Only problem is, they disappear the next day. Maybe you could start an album (or send them to one of us) on picassa or another photo sharing site. Does WordPress offer such? you could link to it on the right. Don’t go to too much trouble, as you already do more than enough for us.

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  7. Since most of us are tired of winter, I have decided to change my avatar. Sometime today the snow-covered saguaro will turn into an iris, one of many our daughters and the previous owner planted in our yard. Now, all I need is spring-like warmth — 2° now, 26° later, with the promise of 40s on Monday. Yeah, we’ll see.

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  10. “When God gives us insight into another’s sin, we need to keep our mouths shut and pray.”

    Almost always true, But when that person has some relationship to you and you are responsible, e.e. a child, wife, etc. You should intervene because that sin could have repercussions.

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  11. It is 59 degrees Farenheit in the sun, here in the balmy north. It has been like this for the past couple of days. It still looks like a winter wonderland out there, as we have been buried under so many layers of snow, it is would take several weeks for this to thaw. Generally, we get this warm weather in January, and then it goes back to cold until April; but this year things are a little out of sync. Hope it doesn’t meant that the coming of spring will be delayed, it is hard on the farmers if the planting is delayed, as they already have such a short growing season.

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  12. You’re exactly right, Chas–but that’s when you’re in a relationship of trust with the individual. That was not true of my friend Ruth, nor of many, many others I’ve prayed for over the years. 🙂

    Had she asked me my opinion, of course, I would have told her the truth! 🙂

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  15. I tried to make that kind of comment to your blog post last night, Michelle, but I think it got lost in transmission. I tried to say you did the right thing, but if you had been a family member you should have mentioned how the children would be affected by the lifestyle they were witnessing. Maybe the parents were telling the children, “Do as I say, not as I do.” Maybe they told the children they were married in the eyes of God, but just had not done the ceremony. But then they’d have to explain the separation. I do wonder what people are thinking when they live together when there are children in the home.

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  17. The Real, the robins always seem to come back in February. I remember one very cold February, we saw five robin sitting in a tree in the woods. They looked half frozen, poor birds. I read somewhere that birds seem to migrate based on the change in length of days, rather than temperature changes.

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  18. I would never condone living together prior to marriage–you all know the list of reasons why as well as I do–but I think we all mature in our relationship with God in different ways. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to convict of sin, not mine.

    Ruth, obviously, had a warped concept of introducing Dan and his family to God. The children loved going to Sunday School with her–and were devastated when she left.God used Dan’s wake up call–her departure–to force him to reconsider his own life, plus the devastated children’s needs. This story has a happy ending; not all do.

    Unlike Jesus, I do not know the attitude of the hearts of the people I’m dealing with. I need to trust that God is at work in their lives in ways I cannot see. My job is to pray and model the attractive sweetness of God to those with whom I am not in a close relationship.

    Some years ago, someone close to me was dating a non-believer. Had dated him a long time. After praying and thinking about it, I challenged her on the relationship. We had an awkward and frank discussion. I heard her out. She listened to me. And then I left it alone. She’s an intelligent woman and it’s her life.

    They’ve been married several years. I just listen now when she tells me of her woes. I don’t point out they might have been mitigated had she married a believer (tempted, many times, but so far have managed to keep my mouth shut. She knows where I stand).

    Now the marriage is done, I feel it is my job to support her in this choice she made. He’s not a bad guy, he’s a wonderful young man, he just doesn’t share her beliefs and it’s, surprise!, caused tension.

    BUT, we do not know what God is doing in his life. He sees very clearly who supports her and helps them. Our actions are a witness to him. He knows she prays. He knows she worries. He knows how their needs are met.

    Sometimes I think it’s helpful to ask ourselves, Who is this God we worship? What does he want of me? What poor choices have I made that He used to his glory?

    And I remember the Word of God does not return void.

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  20. Hi y’all!
    Greetings from Georgia, home of snowpocalypse 2014 (1 and 2), bluebirds, robins, and earthquakes. Yup. All in the same week.

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  24. Lovely picture, by the way, Kim. Water, trees and sunlight is the perfect combination. I t makes me feel relaxed just looking at it. I guessed wrongly that this was Donna’s because of the tropic-like shrubbery. I should have known better from the tree foliage.

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  25. Church discipline — applied in a loving, confidential and discreet spirit — isn’t a popular notion these days, but it can go a long way toward providing that counsel for people and allowing Christian friends to take on more of a quiet, supportive role. I have a Christian friend who’s made some unbiblical choices and I can’t tell you how relieved I am that she’s been speaking openly with her pastor about it.

    The process has been ongoing for some time (albeit with no change in the situation). But I trust they are going at a pace the pastor believes is best and that he has a compassionate understanding of the situation. By virtue of her church membership she’s voluntarily put herself under their spiritual authority — and it seems to me this is exactly how that process is supposed to work. The pastor (who’s quite young with a young family) seems to be gently & patiently moving the process along, without a heavy hand, yet also without shirking his responsibility. There seems to be progress and more clarity in her own understanding as the counseling continues. And I’m sure he’s gaining some of that “where the rubber meets the road” experience in his fairly new pastoral role.

    But I feel so relieved that the church in her case (and by her request, by the way) has stepped up, taking the lead in resolving the conflict.

    My primary role as her friend is listening — when she wants to talk about it.

    Unfortunately, not many churches (at least out here in the west) even require membership anymore so there isn’t that sense of our being under an earthly spiritual authority for many believers.

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  27. And back to church discipline, obviously it can be (and has been) very horribly handled and misused by churches that take things too far or that are simply unbiblical (or even cult-like). In those cases damage can be so hard to undo. 😦

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  29. MIM, Good to see you back. I know that Athens, Augusta and Columbia got the worst of this storm. We had, still have, snow, but the power stayed on and the streets are clear. That’s all we need.
    I didn’t know about the earthquake until I heard it on the news this morning. Edgefield is not in the quake zone. Charleston and Summerville are.

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  30. I guess my thinking moved in this direction one day when a church planter was telling me about a young woman who started attending her small group study. She became a Christian and then was faced with the dilemma of a live-in and two children. What to do?

    The church planter commented she had been married about the same amount of time and the thought of voluntarily severing that relationship was too difficult to contemplate. So they began praying–she and her husband.

    Eventually the new believer was convicted by what she learned in Bible study and made the very painful decision to leave and take her children (he apparently wasn’t willing to marry. Or perhaps she realized she should not marry an unbeliever. I can’t remember that detail now).

    The church planter explained, “we needed to give her the time to reach her own conclusions about God’s will in her life. Our job was to pray for her, love her and teach her how to study Scripture. God did the real heart change.”

    I’m sure our missionary friends run into similar situations in the cultures in which they live. For the rest of us, it’s becoming or has become the culture in which we live. How, then, do we remain true to Scripture while loving them and not condoning their choices?

    Well, I guess I’ve been living in that conundrum for a long time with the PCC work!

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  31. I guessed that was Kim’s photo…what a beautiful and “warm” place to live!! At my Mom’s home we got 4 inches of snow last night..maybe another inch tonight…Indianapolis is predicted to get an ice/snow storm Monday…the day I leave…I’ll be holding up in a hotel for a day…so I don’t have to drive in that mess…hopefully my flight will not be cancelled…I miss home!
    MIM….I heard you all had an earthquake…my nephew lives in GA…Spring cannot come soon enough for all of us I believe!

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  33. Quite often new Christians find themselves in circumstances that don’t exactly conform with God’s word as they grow in their new faith. I certainly did. And michelle’s right, it takes time to read and pray and let the Holy Spirit sort it all out. Then you’re miserable. 🙂 Sometimes it requires a very real sacrifice that is hard to make. And that’s scary.

    In cases where long-time Christians go astray, it’s something of a different circumstance, I think.

    But either way, not bad advice to pray rather than to jump in and try to set everything straight in someone else’s life. It’s a tough call sometimes and, as someone said earlier, really depends on the closeness of the relationship.

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  34. Re: Michelle’s story of Ruth (I couldn’t get the comment box to let me in)-
    When there is a situation such as this, I am reminded of Jesus’s words in John 8 (paraphrased)- “Let the one who has no sin be the first to cast a stone.” The Pharisees knew what he meant.

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  35. Michelle, missionaries do indeed face those kind of conundrums. Polygamous marriages and wearing amulets and charms were just some of the issues for converts that I heard discussed last year. The focus for the team was prayer and teaching the truth – leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

    We tend to think that once a person becomes a Christian, all the bad behaviour will cease and desist. My father and one of my siblings-in-law were examples to me of how dramatically Christ can work; their rapid change in behaviour shocked their peers. However, other people take much longer to realize that the lifestyle they are living is not honouring to God. We see examples of that in the Bible: Jacob had a conversion experience after his dream of the ladder; but it took many years of betrayal, trickery and family conflict before he finally wrestled with God and began to place his life under God’s control.

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  36. Peter, true, although we are also given direction in Scripture about how we are to (privately) approach brothers and sisters in these circumstances (with humility knowing that we, too, can similarly fall). Casting stones is different than gently correcting a brother or sister.

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  37. That said … It should be incumbent upon us all to do much self-evaluation before putting ourselves in such a role.

    And in my case, that typically stops me pretty cold in my tracks. 😉 🙄

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  38. I so appreciate the elders and pastor of my church. They handled the discipline of my ex in a wonderful way. After many long sessions, they finally had to disfellowship him. On the day they did it, one of the elders came to speak to my children and tell them that he is still your dad. It was all done with such love and care.

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  41. Donna- Your second post (@3:26) is more what I meant- that we should not approach someone about a sin unless we have dealt with it in our own lives.

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  43. Jo, I know a man whose wife left him against his will. He called her church (she’d left his church and joined another) and told her pastor that she was divorcing unbiblically and against the will of her husband and should be under church discipline, and they did nothing. It deeply grieved him.

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  45. And dealing with our own sin doesn’t mean we’ve eradicated all or a particular sin — to me it means we’ve confessed it, repented — and are fighting against it in our lives, sometimes over and over again, sometimes successful, sometimes not.

    Saying we’ve “dealt” with sin sounds as if we’ve gained complete victory over something and are now completely free of it (that can happen, but my experience has been more of an ongoing fight with many of my familiar shortcomings that crop up). I think instead that it’s more about the idea that we’re actively “dealing” with it in an ongoing manner.

    Jo’s experience is how church discipline should work — and I know our elders have said they’ve spent sometimes many months or even years laboring with members before coming to a decision of excommunication. Tough business that requires much compassion and discernment (not to mention discretion — I love the fact that I have no clue who is or isn’t meeting with our elders over these matters).

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  47. Nobody knows a sin like the sinner. Since my divorce I have talked more women into staying in a marriage than leaving one. I do have one person that I have told I have done everything but sign the divorce papers myself. I am not the only one who tells her this. The “grandmother” across the street tells her, her friend who is a Christian therapist tells her, Her mother has set up a trust to take care of her and her child but blocks the husband from touching a dime. She says she is paralyzed and doesn’t know why she can’t do anything about it. I have said the last I am going to say…that is why I fall back on my excuse above.

    The others I have told how hard it is on this side.

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  48. I am missing church today. Not wanting to take a chance on spreading this dreadful virus. I miss Sunday School and church and the week ahead will feel a bit empty on the front end.

    I do have a question. Since my father died when I was six months pregnant with our son, over the years I have found it comforting to think that although son did not get to see grandfather here that they will have eternity in heaven. I told someone at church my thought that this time on earth is so short in comparison. The person with whom I was speaking brushed off my comment by saying something like, “We can’t know anything about eternity.” Have I been thinking incorrectly all these years? I have not done Bible study on this yet, but just hope someone can give me thoughts and knowledge.

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  51. Karen O, 🙂 Can’t go wrong singing the Psalms.

    Although there are some Presbyterian churches that sing only the Psalms which strikes me as a bit too restrictive. Still, psalm singing is a long-standing tradition in the church and one that’s nice to see making something of a comeback.

    JanetG, no, I don’t think you’re wrong about that at all. Scripture tells us what a brief moment our lives on earth are — and I think the older we get, the more we begin to grasp that in contrast with eternity. And while we don’t have all our many questions answered — the Bible doesn’t give us a lot of specifics about eternity — it does promise believers that we will be in God’s presence, and that we will be “like” Jesus in the sense that we will see him as he is. We will be with him in a new heaven and a new earth.

    It seems to say we also will know one another, although some of that is murky to me (I always wonder, but what about those we love who aren’t there? Won’t we be distressed about that? Apparently not, but I’m not entirely sure how that all works).

    But, hallelujah, there definitely will be no more sin to battle. Amen for that!

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  52. “We can’t know anything abut eternity”>

    Of course we can The SS lesson today was abut the resurrection, John 20. If you believe the New Testament, you have to believe that because Jesus rose again, we have the assurance that we now have eternal life through faith in Him.

    I would worry about the future of a person who says that.

    “life is but a shadow, a poor player who struts his hour upon the stage,
    And then is heard no more.
    Tis a tale, told by an idiot,
    Full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.” Shakespeare

    He that liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

    Jesus Christ

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  53. Thanks for the comments so far. They are helpful. I believe the person who made the comment at church is a Christian who does not have a very tactful way of communicating. I did not continue in our conversation because she said her point so firmly and I did not have any ready scripture to clearly support my belief. She was not saying she does not believe in eternity, only that I can’t know if it means my father would get to see my son there (assuming as I do that they both end up in heaven).

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  54. Good afternoon! Our sermon was from Romans, on God’s unconditional love for His children. It was delivered by a guest speaker who is the leader of a college ministry at Baylor University. I thought it was very good.

    Enjoyed Michelle’s latest blog post. I have a friend who’s about to move in with her boyfriend. She has a twelve year old daughter. They plan on marrying at some point, but are not yet engaged. I’ve told her that I don’t think Hubby and I would’ve made it through the first year of living together without that little piece of paper. It would’ve been too easy to walk away without the vows we said. I think she’s making a huge mistake, but don’t feel it’s my place to point it out any more directly. I am praying for her and him and her daughter.

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  55. Donna – I thought the point of that article was that many of today’s worship songs, that many people complain about for the reasons listed, are similar to the psalms. (Of course, not all of them are.)

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  56. One of the many questions new Christians have is about why God rejected Cain’s offering. I have usually heard that it was rejected because somehow they knew it was supposed to be a blood offering, or because of his bad attitude, or because his offering was from the work of his own hands.

    Last week my pastor pointed something out that I hadn’t noticed before. The Bible says that Abel brought the firstborn of the flock, but that Cain brought an offering, not necessarily the firstfruits.

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  57. I think that from God’s conversation with Cain, it is apparent that Cain KNEW what to do, but wanted to do his own thing. That is where we usually go wrong. It is thinking we know BETTER than God. IOW, we are god.

    I do believe that God showed Adam and Eve what to do when he clothed them with animal skins. This had never been done prior to sin. Why kill an animal just for the skins? It was the foreshadowing of the sacrificial Lamb.

    As far as knowing about eternity, we can know much about it. Whole books have been written on the verses given in scripture about it. We may disagree on some of the aspects, but to assume we cannot know is going a little far (or short, as the case may be).

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  58. Genesis 4:6-7 (My paraphrase, but that’s what is said.)

    The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry and you look so sad?
    If you had done right, you would have been accepted, but if not, sin lies at the door”

    That’s all we know. There is no point in speculating about blood sacrifice, nor “firstfruit” though it does say Abel offered the firstfruit, but not about Cain.

    I doubt that speculation about this is profitable at all.
    A lot here we don’t know.
    How God spoke to Cain.
    How did Cain know his offering was not accepted.
    The significance of his offering not being accepted.
    Why did Cain blame Abel for his offering not being accepted.

    When I think of these things analytically, as you likely know is my way of thinking, I run into lots of things that don’t follow logically. I just accept them and move on.

    We had a big discussion of John 20:23 “Whoever’s sins you remit…..” I don’t .know what all that means. But I’m certain it doesn’t mean that a man can forgive sin. The Catholic Church has built a doctrine on that. It has also brought them lots of money through the years.

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  59. Another thing we don’t know is what sin lay at Cain’s door. Anything else is speculation.
    When someone starts explaining it, i give it the same attention I give Kerry’s lectures on global warming.

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  60. Chas, you are such a clear, biblical thinker! Some things are not meant to be clear this side of heaven. Save your questions, or perhaps not, perhaps it will all just be clear or oh, so unimportant there.

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  62. Jo, I’m so glad your church did things so well. It must have been so hard for you to go through, but it would have been worse if they hadn’t followed Scripture. My sister-in-law and her children sat in a pew while one of the elders of the church announced that they were disciplining her husband and WHY. She knew ahead of time that it was going to happen. I can’t imagine how she must have felt. Our niece just told us that this summer when they were visiting. It still bothered her how it was dealt with and that was about 15 years ago. Thankfully she was able to forgive and move on, unlike some of her family.

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  63. In the Cain and Abel story, at the least it shows God’s sovereignty and right to choose one person and reject another. I suppose that goes along with predestination on some level. It is hard to not question God as to why He does things. By the questioning there is an insinuation that God got it wrong.

    But as Chas said, I speculate. 🙂

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  64. Re: eternity- I think we get too sentimental sometimes. Yes we will probably know each other, but we will be so focused on worshipping the LORD that we won’t notice who else is there.

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  65. In reading back over Chas’ quote, I am reminded that somewhere in Scripture it says something like if you have anything againt your brother make things right before going to the Lord’s altar(hope I did not mangle that too much). The part of the quote about sin laying at the door made me think of that.

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  66. On eternity, I have Randy Alcorn’s book, Heaven, and I have neglected it for too long! I think it is well researched and may shed additional light.

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  67. I don’t pretend to know what Eternity will hold. The hope of seeing my grandfather and father makes me want to go to heaven. I believe they will be there waiting on me. If they arent’ then I am sure I will be so happy to be in heaven that I will hardly notice. Maybe I am too simplistic, but this is what I choose to believe. Ohterwise what’s the point?

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  68. Kare, ouch.

    There’s no reason for that kind of action on the part of a church, I think — when it says if a brother or sister doesn’t repent (after being approached by one and then by more) the matter should be taken to “the church,” I think a good reading of that means the church leadership (elders) and that discretion is so important to everyone’s well-being as reconciliation is pursued.

    I suspect there will be something so very different (and wonderful) about the next (new & renewed) world that it is hard for us to comprehend on our level. There will be no more tears, so we know we will no longer mourn as we do on earth.

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  69. John 14:3 “I go to prepare a plce for you. I will come again to receive you unto myself that where I am you may be also.”

    That’s good enough for me.

    A visiting pastor preached tonight on the rich young ruler. The title of the sermon was “Good enough is not enough.”

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  71. I Cor. 13:12 “For now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then shall I know even as I also am known.”

    This isn’t enough to build a theological doctrine on, but it at least tells us that a lot of things we don’t understand will be made clear. ,

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  73. Thank you, Chas, for the Bible verse promises. God’s word is living and although it does not change, the effect it has on each of us can be quite different according to our needs. It offers that personal conversation with our Lord.

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  74. Just to clarify: My comment about “an” offering vs. the firstfruits was offered as another element to the story to consider, not as the whole answer.

    Janice – You wrote, “It is hard to not question God as to why He does things. By the questioning there is an insinuation that God got it wrong.

    That is certainly often true. But I think it depends on our attitude in the asking. I think we can ask God why He did something, but still know that He is good, His will is perfect, & our “why” is more of a wondering of what good God is going to bring out of whatever it is that has us bewildered. IOW, we may wonder how anything good could come from whatever it is, but still know that God is good & knows exactly what He is doing.

    I hope that makes sense. I had trouble wording it.

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  75. We can certainly tell some things about eternity. Revelation 21 & 22 describe the new heaven and earth. Christ is called the first fruit of the resurrection – we know his body was physical (it could be touched), he was recognizable and human in form, he could eat and walk places; but he also could enter places without needing doors and vanish instantly. I agree that eternity is often sentimentalized and even stereotyped (people with wings, harps and haloes floating on clouds?). However, I think the other danger is to make it too abstract in nature. The verses in Revelation indicate that we will still operate as human beings – “God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people”.

    We will not have the same relationships with people as we do now, for there will be no marrying in the resurrection (Matthew 22:30) ; but that does not mean we will not see one another again, for is that not what the comfort is in I Thess. 4, which is read at every funeral? There will be no more tears, but that does not mean we will not remember how we came there, for Christ still bears the scars of His death (John 20:27). We will understand everything – “Then shall I know, even as also I am known” (1 Cor. 13:15). There will be no more sickness or curse, but that does not mean we will not work or eat – there is “the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits” (the same Tree of Life from the Garden of Eden?) and it also says”His servants shall serve Him” in Revelation 22. The Resurrection is a concrete reality, just as everything else is in the Bible.

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