Who has a request or praise to share today?
Psalm 53
¹The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.
2 God looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call upon God?
5 There they are in great fear Where no fear was, For God has scattered the bones of him who encamps against you; You have put them to shame, Because God has despised them.
6 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When God brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.
Wandering Views 
A praise! Hubby sold one of our vehicles today! He looks for deals, cars that need work, but can be bought dirt cheap, fixed up and made into a nice-looking and -running car, and sold for a decent profit. He’s been working on this one for a few months, along with other vehicles, one more of which is pretty close to being ready to be put up for sale.
Prayers requested for wisdom in putting the funds to the best possible use(s). Thank you.
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The situation with all of us trying to live together with not enough rooms, while waiting for my upstairs neighbors to find a new place, is wearing on me greatly. Forrest can now open the gate into my room, which raises my stress level quite a bit, & there are many other reasons, some big, some small, why this is getting to be too much for me. Lee is having a hard time with it, too, as well as the girls. (I’m sure Emily must be sick of us all having to tramp through her room to go to the bathroom, especially while she’s trying to sleep.)
I have spoken with my friend, M, & she assures me they have all been looking & researching, but they haven’t yet found anything that they can afford & that will allow them to keep their pets, including their dog (lots of places allow cats, but few allow dogs). The places that will allow pets tend to charge exorbitant security fees &/or extra fees per month per animal (they have 3 cats & 1 dog), making them unaffordable for them.
M’s husband took this week off work so they could concentrate on the search together. She mentioned having an appointment (or appointments?) to “fill out paperwork”, to get help in finding a place, or finding a rent-to-own place, or seeing if they could possibly buy their own home (a very long shot).
Please pray that they will have great success, that God would give them favor where needed, & that by the end of this week, they will have found their new home. M says she wants to be out by the end of the year, even if they have to take some tiny place so as to be able to keep their pets. I am specifically praying that they can be out by the end of November, if not sooner, & even that seems too long right now.
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I’m praying, Karen. Let me also say that, even though I know M is a friend of yours, she can’t rightfully be the one to decide that she “wants to be out by the end of the year”. You and Lee have offered her and her husband a home, and it is your decision to make regarding the length of their stay, not hers. I’ll just be blunt (please understand the love behind my saying this, Karen) and say that, for your family’s sake (and for M and her husband’s, too), you and Lee need to tell them that they need to move on now, not next month, or the end of the year, or when they find suitable living arrangements or…any of the myriad scenarios that can crop up and further delay their departure.
Tell them you love them, but make it clear through your words and actions that your family comes first. A true friend will understand that and will not want to impose. Please be firm and decisive; I don’t think you can afford to have it be any other way. Too much tension continuing as you are will destroy relationships, and I know you do not want that.
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6 Arrows – I understand what you’re saying. If we thought they were dragging their feet, we certainly would give them a deadline. But I truly believe they are doing their best, & even their daughters (both grown) are helping in the search. M said she wants to move out as quickly as possible, as she knows things are difficult for us, plus she wants the whole moving ordeal to be over. Her comment about wanting to be out by the end of the year wasn’t that she would delay till then, but that she doesn’t want to let it stretch on beyond that.
As I mentioned a while back, they have a fairly low income (& Connecticut is an expensive state to live in), & they love their pets. We are the ones who allowed them to get their dog, Suki. (Their cats are all on the older side.) They’d all wanted a dog for a long time, especially the dad. How can I now say “Oh well, too bad you have to get rid of your beloved dog”? I don’t want my happiness & blessing to come at the expense of theirs.
Looking back, I do wish we had given them a deadline, albeit a generous one. But we told them we weren’t doing that, & we can’t go back on our word.
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Karen, they are called BOUNDARIES. You need to learn to get some. You are too nice for your own good. How long has this been dragging on now?????
I can guaran dang tee you they aren’t as anxious to be out of your home as you are for them to be gone. Harsh words my friend but YOU ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. Do you want their happiness and blessing to come at YOUR EXPENSE????? because that is what is happening.
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Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
‘Stay where you are until our backs are turned!’
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, ‘Good fences make good neighbors’.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
‘Why do they make good neighbors? Isn’t it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I’d ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That wants it down.’ I could say ‘Elves’ to him,
But it’s not elves exactly, and I’d rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father’s saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, “Good fences make good neighbors.”
GOOD BOUNDARIES MAKE GOOD FRIENDS
I say this out of love.
Kim
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Karen, you told them there would be no deadline, but you are regretting that. You can see how it’s affecting your family. Does your family come first? I know it does for you.
You need to go to them and say, “We made a mistake in not setting a deadline, but our family’s needs come first. This is all the longer we can have you here. We will need you out by [fill in the blank with some specific ASAP date]. ” I’m sure you’ll find a nicer way to say it than that, but it needs to be said and done quickly.
Do not be more concerned about going back on your word with friends when you realize you’ve made a mistake than you are on continuing to allow this experience to affect your family life. Like I said before, a true friend will understand your conviction (and your ACTING on conviction) to put family first.
Please do not compromise anymore with them. If family comes first, and I know it does, then you MUST live out that conviction.
Spoken in love, Karen. Truly it is.
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Water is out here. This time husband is home but the cistern is home, the pump is out.
Karen, listen to the people talking to you. The tenants have been given a heads up. It is not that difficult to find housing. But they may have to do something with their adult children until they find it if the animals are such a problem. Living as a tenant means you might be asked to move. Of course, we are called as believers to help others. You have. Your other option is to send your daughter and grandson packing. But we are to take care of our families. You are in a tough situation but it is okay to say so and tell them it is time.
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I did not mean the cistern was home. Of course it is home. Where else would it be? I meant the cistern is full.
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Mumsee, praying your pump is fixed and soon. I know what it’s like to live with no water. We have several pumps you could borrow 🙂 gas or electric – too bad we’re not closer to you.
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I think Karen’s handling it just fine. If they weren’t making an effort to find a new place (they are), then I’d agree with the rest of you. But she’s right, finding housing isn’t all that easy, I’ve had co-workers looking and looking for apartments and it ain’t easy to get everything to fall into place (affordable, workable, sufficient, etc.).
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the pumpman came tonight. Seems they looked at the calendar and did not have time tomorrow, since they were on the road, they stopped by. Just got here and I am off to bed. Husband can handle it.
The Karen thing: yes, but if her family is falling apart over it, if the stress is too high, they need to try harder. There was mention of adult children living in another part of town, seems like that would be an option.
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If I may, I also think when we give advice (and I’m not sure Karen was asking for that) it’s best done with gentleness and humility, knowing we don’t walk in her shoes, we don’t fully understand the situation or personalities in a first-hand way.
God uses our different inclinations and personalities for His purpose. He works out His will through us and our circumstances as we pray our way through it the best we can, with grace — the process for resolution i suspect is different for each of us. It’s a tough spot but it sounds to me like Karen has been a very good friend and landlord — and that she’s also been straight forward about their need (sooner rather than later) to have their whole house back in use to accommodate their growing family.
Praying God will open the way soon for everyone concerned!
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Donna, we all saw when older daughter needed to move back and younger daughter moved to the living room. We all listened as little boy got bigger and more active. We all listened to the concerns about the place seeming smaller and smaller. We all understood it was important to give the folks time to move along. But now we see Karen regularly getting down about her situation. And now we see her husband being pulled down as well with the full weight of responsibility. It is tough to share tight living quarters with several adults or near adults. People move. They have had several months of notice. They have adult children who might be able to put them up for a time. They might have to do something with the animals. Maybe the animals could stay with the daughter who moves into their quarters until better arrangements can be made. There are options.
And finally, there are people who take advantage in this type of situation. They are squatters and getting them out requires legal help. I hope this is not the case.
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I thought about the conversation here on this thread last night before I went to bed (having seen all the above posts except for Donna’s at 2:39). I’d like to share some of my thoughts, if I could, not as a defense for what I said, but just as a way that might clarify, particularly for me, as my head is a rather disorganized jumble of thoughts right now. It’s an important topic, though, so bear with me while I try to give voice to some of this in as coherent a manner as possible.
Donna, in her 2:39 am post, first paragraph, wrote some things that I was actually thinking about after I stopped posting. Karen, I’ll start by saying I am sorry for giving advice if that was not what you were looking for. Also, though I said that my motivation was to speak out of love (and that is the truth), the use of all caps on a couple words in my 8:31 pm post does not convey gentleness, now that I look at it. I am sorry.
I also want to make clear, Karen, that I am not questioning your love for your family. If I said anything that made it sound like I was, I am very sorry about that. I did not mean to give that impression if I did.
Here is what I think gets to the heart of why, in addition to announcing that I was praying for you, I launched into offering advice.
You and your husband sound similar to me and my husband in some ways, and, honestly, if we were in the situation you are in with your friends (to the extent that I understand it), we, and especially I, personally, would have a very difficult time following the advice I gave you. Makes no sense, I know, that I dish out advice that I doubt I would follow, but there you go.
If extending hospitality for an undetermined length of time was really getting in the way of family life, as I believe it is for you, I would still have great difficulty simply being straightforward with those to whom we had provided hospitality, saying we were unable to commit to any more because of family considerations, who we believe need to come first.
We’ve been, not in that same situation, but similar situations before, and it wears on both my and my husband’s nerves when we feel like we’re giving an inch and they’re taking a mile. It gets mighty irritating after a while, but we just allow it to continue, though we wish we didn’t have to anymore.
This is where I heard you coming from, Karen. I sense your frustration and feelings of helplessness in the situation, and I suppose I projected my old feelings of angst against those kinds of things. We wish that there had been times we had simply said, “Enough!” (figuratively speaking, not literally) when it would have been right to do just that.
The thing with hospitality is, as Christians, yes, we are obligated to provide hospitality. Yet, once we offer it and it is accepted, are we then obligated to continue providing it until the recipients decide they no longer want/need it? I don’t see any Biblical directive that that is so. I believe we have freedom to decide how we will help out people in need, and freedom to decide to withdraw that assistance at a time of our choosing.
Are your friends Christians? If so, they are given a directive in Scripture to “withdraw thy foot from thy neighbour’s house; lest he be weary of thee, and so hate thee”. You are clearly weary of the situation, and they have an obligation to you to “withdraw [their] foot”, biblically speaking. It is enabling them to act unscripturally by allowing them to remain when you are weary of the arrangement.
The other thing I was thinking about this situation is that it seems like finding a place where they can continue to have their pets with them is more important to them than pleasing you. In other words, they are putting animals above people, IMO. That is not biblical, either. I’ll admit I’m not a big “animal person”, but I don’t think that’s the point. They had a long time to arrange for where those animals could go. They shouldn’t be putting your family life on hold because of that.
I think that’s about all I have to say. I’m not sure how well that clarifies things, but my husband just got home, my kids woke up, and it’s time for me to wrap this up.
I am praying for a healthy resolution for you and your family, Karen.
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My mom took in her older sister at one point (both were widowed by then) and over time it became a real burden on my mom, but my aunt was not inclined to leave. I remember being pretty hard on my mom, telling her once when I’d gone to visit and we were out alone on a dog walk that she needed to stop complaining about it if she wasn’t willing to basically just tell her sister to leave. She said she couldn’t do that, she was her sister. (She also was alienated completely from all 3 of her own adult children.)
Any suggestion or discussion about my aunt moving, for example, to the local senior housing complex in town was strongly rejected by my aunt. Sigh.
My mom was obviously put out by my aunt’s presence and my aunt really had taken advantage of it. But it was a situation that had (at that time) no easy solution and that my mom’s sense of duty to family, in her mind, came before her own peace of mind, right or wrong. So she was just sort of stuck.
I also realized she just needed an ear to listen and later I was sorry I responded so sharply to her that one time, thinking I had such an easy “tough love” answer. She wasn’t really asking for my advice, she was just needing to vent about a situation she felt had no immediate solution — at least not one she was morally able to pursue.
Not that it’s the same thing — but I do think Karen & her husband are doing what they can, within the scope of what Karen feels is right and important for her as a Christian (and, yes, I suspect that includes — for Karen — allowing her friends to find a place where the animals can stay, too). It’s unfortunate it’s taken so long, but as I said, finding a new home to rent isn’t easy, especially in high-income and high-rent areas like the east and west coasts. Despite the recession, rents here are extraordinarily high (in most cases more than my monthly mortgage payments). I don’t know how some of my lesser-paid younger colleagues manage it, frankly.
But it also sounds to me that the friends (although they may have taken a while to get there) are now taking it very seriously. The husband has taken time off work to actively look for a place — the end of the year is mentioned as the goal. (And yes, I believe they are also Christians.) If they weren’t looking or were blowing it all off, that would be different. As it is, it just seems like it’s a situation that for now (hopefully not for much longer) has everyone kind of “stuck” and feeling increasingly frantic (including the house guests).
So I’ll move this higher on my prayer list, that they find a good solution — for everyone — soon. 🙂
Maybe the adult kids could take them in temporarily, that probably isn’t a bad idea if they simply cannot find anything to rent or buy. Or perhaps the kids could care for the animals in the interim if their new place won’t allow pets. I rented out my mom’s house for a while before selling it way back when and remember hesitating when the property management person asked if the new tenant could have a dog. I said yes, of course (provided the additional deposit in advance was made as I had to do for my rental). But it’s extremely hard to find landlords out here who will accept any kind of a pet, sad to say.
Karen, if you’re still around, one thought — there are online resources here in California for pet-friendly rentals, perhaps something like that exists there, too, that would be of help. I think the spca and other groups make sure those listings are available for people looking for housing.
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This is what I was thinking of … I’ll pass it on to K also via fb:
http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/animal_friendly_apartments.html
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