What’s in the news today that you’d like to talk about?
I found this disturbing.
From Reuters
“Gunmen attacked U.S. consulate offices in Libya’s eastern city of Benghazi on Tuesday, and fought with security forces in protest against a U.S. film they say is blasphemous, a security official said.
He said a fire was burning inside the consulate and that staff had been evacuated.”
Read more here
It also seems to have been coordinated with a similar protest in Egypt. I can’t help but doubt that the date chosen to do this was a coincidence.
Reports this morning are saying the US Ambassador to Libya has been killed along with 2 others.
From the Washington Post
“U.S. Ambassador to Libya John Christopher Stevens and at least two other embassy staffers were reported killed Tuesday in an assault on the American consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi.
Wire services and reporters on the ground said Libyan government officials confirmed that Stevens and the others were fleeing the consulate when a rocket-propelled grenade struck their vehicle. Al-Jazeera’s correspondent in Bengazi said the bodies of the dead had been taken to the Benghazi airport.”
Read more here
Also troubling has been the bungled response by the White House.
From Politico
“The Obama administration is disavowing a statement from its own Cairo embassy that seemed to apologize for anti-Muslim activity in the United States.
“The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government,” an administration official told POLITICO.
The U.S. embassy in Cairo put out a statement early Tuesday that apologized for an anti-Muslim film being circulated by an Israeli-American real estate developer.”
Read more here
Wandering Views 
Yes, extremely disturbing but not entirely unsurprising. It’s messy in the middle east right now. Before we get hugely political on this in the campaigning season that it is, please take a moment to reflect and pray for the families who lost loved ones. US diplomats who serve in places like Libya do know that there is danger, they go and serve our country anyway — that deserves at least a moment.
The Embassy Cairo statement was pretty awful — a complete and utter mistatement of U.S. policy. The best statement on freedom of expression and US policy you could find would be here: http://geneva.usmission.gov/2012/08/27/curtailing-freedom-of-expression-is-not-the-way-to-combat-hateful-speech/
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‘Disturbing” isn’t the word for it. We have been at war for over 20 years and don’trealize it because there are no battle lines.
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“anonymous” is Chas for the next day or so.
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Hi Chas,
Hope you’re enjoying your vacation.
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And yet again, I can’t help feeling that Obama/we backed the wrong horse. Libya was not a threat before the US decided to back the rebels. They took our help, but now that they have control, we’re right back to being their enemy.
Same goes for Eygpt. We encouraged and helped the rebels, but now that they have control, we are the enemy. When they attack our embassy, remove our flag and replace it with Al-Quaeda’s, you can see we backed the wrong group.
And these are the same people that McCain and the like would like to arm and assist in Syria. Why? Seems like another stupid move if you ask me.
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The problem with revolution and democracy – doesn’t alwas turn out for what we think is the best. A few years back when Pres Bush pushed for elections in Palestine, the result was a Hamas win. For Libya the transitional govt is trying, but its a bit wildwest out there. If Pres Obama had done nothing that too would have been criticized. Egypt – there are years of pent up anger at the perception that we kept the dictators in power. Syria is also a bloody mess.
Q for folks – philosophically is it better to back the brutal dictator or to support free elections? What’s best for the long term?
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“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”, George Santayana.
As Coyote Blue said, there are those who knowingly put their lives in harms way everyday so we can live the lives we live. We need to take a momet and consider their families and their loss.
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Has anyone read either Ron Suskind’s The Confidence Men or Bob Woodward’s new book The Price of Politics? From what I’ve heard both books show Obama to be inexperienced and out of his depth (or more bluntly, incompetent). Both are written by well-known journalists and not your typical conservative commentator like Michelle Malkin or David Limbaugh, so they should have more credibility with moderate swing voters. I’m thinking of reading them.
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What I find disturbing is the lack of cohesion between the state department and the White House statements. Do they not know our policy?
Did you also see their disagreement on Israel’s capital?
Looks to me like the Obama team is trying to rack up points, while the state department is saying what the WH really stands for.
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My question is simple – where were the Marines that were Station there to protect this from happen? Why is no one asking this question to Mr. Obama and the State Department? Since when have our security become so relaxed that these people were able to attack to embassies, get in side both. Kill people in one and take down our Nation’s Flag replacing it with another, without anyone in our embassies firing one shoot?
I will leave you folks alone for now..
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MiM,
On the Embassy statement – Embassies have broad authority to issue statements and don’t have to have approval from headquarters. Embassy Cairo messed up.
Official US policy on Jersalem has not changed since 1995.
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Roy
The marine security guard is a small contingent that protect from the embassy hard line (that would be inside the embassy). It is the duty of the host government to protect the outside.
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As a side issue, will Mitt Romney’s speedy attempt to make political capital from this tragedy help or hurt his chances to win over the miniscule number of undecided voters still out there? I realize that 99.9% of the posters on this site are already committed to the Republican ticket, but do you think that Mitt stepped out to criticize the Obama reaction a little quickly?
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Attacking an Embassy is the same as attacking US Soil. In my military mind, that is an act of war. Another Vietnam Veteran buddy from work asked me about the attacks. I said that I had read about them. In fact, I mentioned one of them on my website today. His comment was Nuke em. Let God sort em out. Not that I think that using tactical nuclear weapons is such a good idea, but I do think there should be some sort of Military Response such as launching predator drones armed with hellfire missiles, then take out a few Islamist houses just for good measure, then tell the host government, the next time this happens we make their city into a parking lot.
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Photoguy,
No, I don’t. This is yet another failure of Obama foriegn policy. He backed the radicals, and this is the result. That needs pointing out.
Also, if you want to condemn Romney, you better save some for Obama. It took him until midnight last night to release a statement condemning Romney. It took him until 8:00 am this morning to get around to condemning those actually responsible.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/12/Obama-Camp-Condemns-Romney-Before-Terrorists
“At 11:53pm last night Talking Points Memo released a statement from the Obama campaign condemning Mitt Romney for criticizing something the White House itself disavowed — an appalling apology issued by the State Department.
Eight hours later, President Obama finally got around to condemning the monsters who attacked us on our own soil and killed our fellow citizens.
Yesterday, on the 11th anniversary of September 11, the Obama White House snubbed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accepted an invitation from David Letterman, and apologized to Islamists upset over a film that mocks Islam and Mohammed — something “artists” in America do to Christianity with my tax dollars on a fairly regular basis.”
Also, Hillary has shown how naive this administration is. They’re actually surprised, as are some other American’s, that the ungrateful radicals have now turned on them. Their delusions that they would like is if we were just nicer have taken a hit. Finally.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/hillary-clinton-how-could-this-happen-in-a-country-we-helped-liberate/article/2507743?custom_click=rss#.UFCtI5WuXww
“Secretary of State Hillary Clinton admitted this morning that the attack on the U.S. embassy in Libya was “not easy” for Americans.
“Today many Americans are asking, indeed I asked myself, ‘How could this happen? How could this happen in a country we helped liberate? In a city we helped save from destruction?'” Clinton asked.”
And this isn’t over. The Obama admin wants to blame a small group of radicals. They won’t blame the MB for not protecting the embassy. The MB has now called for a national protest on Friday. Amateurs run the show now. It won’t be pretty.
And Roy’s question of where were the Marines is a good one. Why would the Obama admin allow a foriegn govt to supply security to our Embassy? Those security forces protected no one. In fact, it looks like they are the ones who told the rioters where to find the Americans. That’s soveriegn American soil. This is an act of war. Where were the Marines?
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The real AJ, I asked a question as to whether or not Romney spoke too soon in attacking Obama on his handling (or mishandling) of the tragedy that took place in Libya and if so, did anyone feel that he would pay a political price from people who are still weighing their November vote.
Does anyone feel that Mitt Romney could have waited 24 to 48 hours, made the same statement and avoided the risk of appearing opportunistic? How would we have felt 11 years ago if a candidate would have attacked President Bush’s response to 9/11 only hours after the incident? Of course, the level of destruction between these two events are not the same, but a modicum of civility during a time when America is being attacked would be nice.
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It might help to consider why these planned attacks were made in both Egypt and Libya. In all probability they were done for domestic political purposes. Radicals are carrying out these attacks in order to create an environment where their moderate political opponents are identified with the US. That’s how popular we are in these countries.
Kim and CB are right. We need to pray for the families who lost loved ones. We also need to pray for our civilian and military employees who serve overseas. Finally, we need to pray for our President. I didn’t vote for him before and I won’t this time around. However, in foreign policy he has a very tough job and there are few easy answers.
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Great post rickyweaver.
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Aj,
A couple of things – first you should look at what the Libyan transitional government is saying and adjust your comments about supprting radicals accordingly. Second, before you opine on embassy security, it’d be good to bone up on what you are talking about. And if you want to question my bona fides on that score know that I have served in an Embassy. Now I will try to keep my temper on the rest of what you wrote as I’m not in a great mood today.
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What I am amazed about is how Mr. Obama and the State Department are quick to apology for someone in America for speaking the truth about the Muslim Faith. What Mr. Obama and the State Department apology for was the degrading of the Muslim Faith.
Now here is what I am amazed about, Mr. Obama and the State Department, they offers no apology to the Christian, who are degraded daily by Mr. Obama supporters here in the United States.
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Roy and Aj
I urge you in the strongest possible terms to get the facts. Neither the President noe the Secretary made apologies. Assertions that they did are lies.
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Coyote,
No need to be gentle with me. I’m a big boy, I can handle it. I can also handle and admit when I’m wrong, so if you think I am, tell me why. 🙂
The Transitional govt did nothing to aid security. They may have sent a small group, but it was outmanned, outgunned, and in sympathy with the protesters. News accounts say they simply walked away. That’s not good enough.
Now if you’ve worked in an embassy, you’re the perfect one to answer my question, where were the Marines? Why, and is it standard practice, would foreign security be used to protect American soil and interest?
And no, I’m not questioning your bonafides. But the only way to get what you call the facts is to read news reports. I’ve done that. Alot. What I posted is what they are reporting. You may not like the source, they may end up being wrong in some cases, but this is what is being reported.
The best I’ve seen so far is this from, surprisingly enough, CNN. Update after update has been added and covers the timeline of events better than any other I’ve seen. If you have something else you want considered, put it up and I’ll certainly read it.
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One of the American diplomats killed Tuesday in a bloody attack on a Libyan Consulate told pals in an online gaming forum hours earlier that he’d seen suspicious people taking pictures outside his compound and wondered if he and his team might “die tonight.”
Sean Smith, a foreign service information management officer assigned to the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, was well known in the online gaming forum EVE Online, where he went by the name “vilerat,” and was seen as a leader by his fellow gamers. Smith was killed along with three others, including U.S. Ambassador to Libya J. Christopher Stevens, when the consulate was attacked by an angry mob.
But hours before the bloody assault, Smith sent a message to Alex Gianturco, the director of “Goonswarm,” Smith’s online gaming team or “guild.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/diplomat-killed-in-libya-to-fellow-gamers-assuming-dont-die-tonight/#ixzz26I9bEJ8e
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And you may have a point on the apology thing as far as Obama is concerned. However as the leader of this country you can expect that when a US Embassy makes a statement like this, it’s the same as if he made it.
http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html
“The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.”
It’s concilatory in nature you must admit. Also, it doesn’t mention those responsible, but seeks to cast all blame on the idiot who made the film. And yes, I watched the 13 minute teaser today on YouTube. It’s crass, rude, disrespectful, and just plain stupid. Not to mention poorly made with people pretending they can act. But it does not justify such a response.
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AJ they can not release such a statement with out permission from the State Department and the White House
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Aj
International practice and law hold host countries reponsible for the phsical safety of embassies and consulates. This is an old practice. The marine guard is a small detachment in smaller consulates it could be just two or three guys. Their job is to maintain security within the hardline. As I understand what happened in Benghazi (which was also a makeshift consulate) it was a coordinated attack designed to flush people out of the building. Libyan troops were there and there reportedly wounded Libyan soldiers. You need to remember that ther troops are pretty ragtag. Why don’t we station more troops at Embassies? It is not our practice to station large US troop contingents in most countries – no country does that. See the Vienna Convention. The wiki on the Marine Security Guard is actually pretty good.
I will get to the timing and all of that when I’m home from work.
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Thanks coyote. I appreciate the info and your perspective.
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“Response such as launching predator drones armed with hellfire missiles, then take out a few Islamist houses just for good measure, then tell the host government, the next time this happens we make their city into a parking lot.”
Which houses? Who are you going to target for reprisal, given we don’t know who was actually responsible yet?
You would threaten to level a city populated by how many innocent men, women and children for the actions of a few? Does that seem remotely appropriate?
Also: when it comes to the U.S. and Israel, I give you this transcript of Ehud Barak being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer a couple months ago. Relevant section would be where Barak says the current administration has been the most supportive since Carter.
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CB, you mentioned a couple times that it’s the Marines’ responsibility to maintain security “within the hardline”. What does that mean?
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He (Ishmael) will be a wild donkey of a man, his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand will be against him. Genesis 16:12.
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Kevin
Embassies have an outer perimeter and an interior one. There is a bullet proof mag-locked door that marks the beginning of the hardline.
Roy
You are wrong. Embassies have broad authority to issue statements and are not required to receive permission from the State Department or the White House to issue statements. The buck stops at an Embassy with the Ambassador or Charge. In the case of Embassy Cairo it would have been the Charge as Ambassador Patterson was not in the country. With respect to the language on speech if you check the link I gave above, you will see that the Embassy’s statement was out of step with policy.
Aj
As it turns out some Libyans in their rag-tag military died defending our people. The Libyan transitional government has been extremely clear in its statements.
More on Embassies and military presence — in general the preference would be to have as small a military presence as is possible. Embassies are supposed to be the diplomatic face of America — the place from which we engage with the world, not the place from which we use armed force. People should feel free to visit Embassies — that may sound naive and certainly in some countries you would not want a veritable open house. But you do want there to be some kind of approachability. It is also not the job of the Muslim Brotherhood to protect the U.S. Embassy. That is the job of the Government of Egypt and yes, AJ there is a difference.
On the Cairo statement, it was posted before the Embassy was being protested and the re-tweet occurred while the Embassy was being protested. And it was before our Ambassador and three other colleagues were killed. Gov. Romney’s statement was wrong on the facts. And I am pretty angry about the statement in general. He wants to take issue with the President’s foreign policy, ok. He could at least wait until the bodies are home. He could at least wait until the facts are sorted out. I’m about as angry at a political candidate as I have been in a good long while. What Romney did while facts are still being sorted and while American lives are still at risk would be comparable to democrats not standing united with President Bush in the wake of 9/11. He wants to debate the foreign policy, there is a time for that. That time is not now. He should have followed Speaker Boehner’s fine example of American patriotism.
Why would State and the President wait to make a statement about Bengahzi? I can think of two reasons off the top of my head: First, State has a preference to inform families of deaths before remarking on those deaths. Second, all of the facts were not in and are still not in. When you have a set of potential powder kegs, you need to be sure of the facts and you need to consider your statements before you make them.
On your earlier statment citing the examiner on the Secretary’s statement. You honestly believe she is that naive? (If you do, I have a bridge to sell you). She was making her remarks conversational for our public because our public does still ask such questions.
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CB – Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this topic.
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