Good morning, all. A beautiful day here with rain expected.
Son in law made an appearance at his wife and her boyfriend’s house for his daughter’s birthday. Gave her a hug and wished her a happy birthday, quietly departed after making some small talk with the son that shot himself. That son sent over a couple of jars of honey he had found for us.
I was shopping in Kosher Kroger and saw some young Jewish guys, maybe middle school age, seeming like they were enjoying being out of school at least for a shopping break. That made me remember the sweet little preschooler in my class whose family moved to Israel. I think his dad was a PA at Emory in my clinic’s practice. Of course that made me think he would be of the age to be in the war. He was the sweetest boy. I hope he is okay and his family, too.🙏
I’ve never even heard it pronounced THANKS-giving. Is this something new? A regional difference or an intentional ‘new’ pronunciation?
Today I’m waiting for cargo numbers from October to come in from one of the ports and have an 11 a.m. eye doctor followup where I’ll hopefully get my questions answered. Meanwhile, the new vision is really remarkable. I walked Abby last night (it’s now dark by the time I get off the clock from work), I used a clip-on light for night running/walking I got from Amazon and it worked really well.
And how nice to walk without glasses on. It reminded me of when I wore contacts for several years (had to stop when my doctor said the dry eye syndrome had developed and was going to make even the soft contacts too much of an added irritation). -dj
~ Here’s something else to stress about for Thanksgiving: where to put the stress in the word Thanksgiving.
If you’re from California, Iowa, or Delaware, you probably say ThanksGIVing, with the primary stress on the second syllable. If you’re from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Texas Panhandle, you probably say THANKSgiving, with the primary stress on the first syllable.
This north-south divide on syllable stress is found for other words like umbrella, guitar, insurance, and pecan. However, those words are borrowed from other languages (Italian, Spanish, French).
Sometimes, in the borrowing process, competing stress patterns settle into regional differences. Just as some borrowed words get first syllable stress in the South and second syllable stress in the North, French words like garage and ballet get first syllable stress in the UK and second syllable stress in the U.S.
Thanksgiving, however, is an English word through and through. And if it behaved like a normal English word, it would have stress on the first syllable. Consider other words with the same noun-gerund structure just like it: SEAfaring, BAbysitting, HANDwriting, BULLfighting, BIRDwatching, HOMEcoming, ALMSgiving. The stress is always up front, on the noun.
The shift to the ThanksGIVing pronunciation is a bit of a mystery. Linguist John McWhorter has suggested that the loss of the stress on thanks has to do with a change in our concept of the holiday, that we “don’t truly think about Thanksgiving as being about thankfulness anymore.” This kind of thing can happen when a word takes on a new, more abstract sense. When we use outgoing for mail that is literally going out, we are likely to stress the OUT. When we use it as a description of someone’s personality (“She’s so outgoing!”), the stress might show up on the GO. Stress can shift with meaning.
But the stress shift might not be solely connected to the entrenchment of our turkey-eating rituals. The thanksGIVing stress pattern seems to have pre-dated the institution of the American holiday, according to an analysis of the meter of English poems by Mark Liberman at Language Log. ThanksGIVing has been around at least since the 17th century. However you say it, there is precedent to back you up. And room enough to focus on both the thanks and the giving. ~
Janice, you mentioned NCIS Sydney yesterday. We watched it. I chuckled at the parallel with the first episode of the original NCIS, “Yankee White”. A non-NCIS agent (Secret Service in the original, Australian police in the new), gets into a jurisdiction dispute with NCIS, but reluctantly works with them to solve the case and avert a catastrophe. In the end they go along with the NCIS team and do stuff that gets them fired from their agencies, so at the end of they episode they join NCIS.
I think it’s such a traditional holiday that surely the pronunciation has been passed down through our ancestors, maybe from the oldest generation who celebrated it here? I truly have difficulty saying it the other way, like my mouth won’t do it!
Good memory, Kevin. I came into the original NCIS belatedly but probably saw the earlier shows in reruns through the years, here and there. But I don’t remember the original episode.
They are formulaic (?) to some degree, but it’s a formula that has seemed to work well; I think they key is getting a good ensemble cast that meshes well.
Eye is good, he said I can pass the DMV exam without glasses (though we’ll still order glasses in a few weeks); the red in my eye is just post-op bruising, nothing to worry about. I go back in a month to see if everything’s stable enough to order glasses, but in the meantime I feel like they eyesight is so amazing (though I needed some low-power drug store readers). -dj
DJ, we came into NCIS belatedly as well, about 5 years in, but USA network was running three hours of reruns every evening and we ended up seeing the first few seasons multiple times. It’s a little embarrassing how well I know those early episodes.
A friend persuaded me to watch it when she caught some old reruns, too (but she never saw it in prime time, she went to bed early and got up at around 4 a.m. I’d heard of the show but had no idea, really, what it was about. I never watched Jag, the program it apparently spun off from.
I went on to watch all of the NCIS episodes from the start on some rerun channel over time, but that was a long time ago and I only watched those programs once — but did so in order as I recall. I apparently had some time on my hands. 🙂
I came into the first-run prime-time shows while Ziva was still a well established part of the team so that also may have been somewhere around the 5-year run mark, not sure. -dj
I found Chad Bird on X-Twitter, read his memoir in one plane flight, bought the book upon arrival at the airport (and Wi-Fi), and have been reading him every day since on X-Twitter (along with Kare’s husband).
I learn so much! Read today:
Chad Bird
@birdchadlouis
Emmanuel, Our Flesh-and-Blood God
Emmanuel is two words in Hebrew, Immanu (“with us”) and El (“God”). This child is the “with-us-God” or, as we say in better English, “God with us.”
Ages before this God-with-us boy was born, he was already with his people, but not in a flesh-and-blood sort of way. He told the patriarchs Isaac and Jacob, “I am with you” (Gen. 26:24; 28:15). Before he sent Moses into Egypt, he said from the burning bush, “I will be with you” (Exod. 3:12). He repeated this promise to Joshua (Deut. 31:23) and others.
It’s one thing for God to be with us as God, but it’s on a whole different level for God to be with us as a fellow human being who spent forty weeks in utero, learned how to crawl then walk, suffered through puberty, and eventually faced the firing squad of Roman crucifiers. We have that God.
And that human God, Jesus of Nazareth, is also our king and Lord. Just consider what that means. Having friends is good. They can be there for us, in good times and bad times. We can lean on them and seek their advice. But our regular friends, well, they have their limitations. They have their own problems, of course, and their own lives, so they can’t be there for us 24/7. Nor can they, if necessary, move heaven and earth to do something for us.
Our flesh-and-blood God can. He is king. He is Lord. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him. And all that authority he exercises for us, his friends, his brothers, his sisters, at whose side he always sticks close.
Just imagine if you had the phone number of the most powerful person in the world, could call or text him anytime, ask him to help you, no matter what, and he would do it in a heartbeat. What we have in Jesus makes that seem like child’s play. He is the creator of heaven and earth. He is king of all nations. He is Lord of all.
Most importantly, he is your Emmanuel, the God with you and the God for you.
We have a God who knows intimately what it is to feel a heart breaking, hot tears running down his cheeks, and blood flowing from gaping wounds. He knows what it’s like to be both loved and hated, as well as betrayed. There is no human emotion foreign to his experience. There is no human need that he has not felt pressing into his soul.
Jesus is our fully divine and fully human God. The image-maker made into the image. The creator become creature.
If you’ve ever wondered just how far the Lord of heaven and earth would go to make sure you were his own, peer down into the manger and look up onto the cross. There’s your answer.
Art got home, and I asked, and he does remember the first episode of NCIS. I see bits and pieces of episodes as I am busy in the kitchen, talking on the phone, etc., while he is devotedly watcjing tv.
Hmm–well my daughter tells me the emphasis is on ‘give’. I have said it many times and also asked my husband who also thought it was on ‘thanks’. My other daughter thought it was ‘give’, too, and then switched to maybe ‘thanks’. Then said she is just saying it weird now. We are all going to be walking around saying it. Lol.
Now if you had asked us about guitar, we could have told you we definitely have the northern accent.
Wandering Views 
Good morning!
What a lovely place to see, far from this crowded urban area.
I must face the traffic and run someverrands.
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Forgot to answer about the pronunciation of Thanksgiving. I only say and hear the emphasis on Thanks, which seems the point of the day.
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Good morning, all. A beautiful day here with rain expected.
Son in law made an appearance at his wife and her boyfriend’s house for his daughter’s birthday. Gave her a hug and wished her a happy birthday, quietly departed after making some small talk with the son that shot himself. That son sent over a couple of jars of honey he had found for us.
mumsee
LikeLiked by 5 people
Thanks-GIV-ing.
mumsee
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I was shopping in Kosher Kroger and saw some young Jewish guys, maybe middle school age, seeming like they were enjoying being out of school at least for a shopping break. That made me remember the sweet little preschooler in my class whose family moved to Israel. I think his dad was a PA at Emory in my clinic’s practice. Of course that made me think he would be of the age to be in the war. He was the sweetest boy. I hope he is okay and his family, too.🙏
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’ve never even heard it pronounced THANKS-giving. Is this something new? A regional difference or an intentional ‘new’ pronunciation?
Today I’m waiting for cargo numbers from October to come in from one of the ports and have an 11 a.m. eye doctor followup where I’ll hopefully get my questions answered. Meanwhile, the new vision is really remarkable. I walked Abby last night (it’s now dark by the time I get off the clock from work), I used a clip-on light for night running/walking I got from Amazon and it worked really well.
And how nice to walk without glasses on. It reminded me of when I wore contacts for several years (had to stop when my doctor said the dry eye syndrome had developed and was going to make even the soft contacts too much of an added irritation). -dj
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As I recall, it was sort of a THANKS-given pronunciation.
mumsee
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Ah, here we go:
~ Here’s something else to stress about for Thanksgiving: where to put the stress in the word Thanksgiving.
If you’re from California, Iowa, or Delaware, you probably say ThanksGIVing, with the primary stress on the second syllable. If you’re from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Texas Panhandle, you probably say THANKSgiving, with the primary stress on the first syllable.
This north-south divide on syllable stress is found for other words like umbrella, guitar, insurance, and pecan. However, those words are borrowed from other languages (Italian, Spanish, French).
Sometimes, in the borrowing process, competing stress patterns settle into regional differences. Just as some borrowed words get first syllable stress in the South and second syllable stress in the North, French words like garage and ballet get first syllable stress in the UK and second syllable stress in the U.S.
Thanksgiving, however, is an English word through and through. And if it behaved like a normal English word, it would have stress on the first syllable. Consider other words with the same noun-gerund structure just like it: SEAfaring, BAbysitting, HANDwriting, BULLfighting, BIRDwatching, HOMEcoming, ALMSgiving. The stress is always up front, on the noun.
The shift to the ThanksGIVing pronunciation is a bit of a mystery. Linguist John McWhorter has suggested that the loss of the stress on thanks has to do with a change in our concept of the holiday, that we “don’t truly think about Thanksgiving as being about thankfulness anymore.” This kind of thing can happen when a word takes on a new, more abstract sense. When we use outgoing for mail that is literally going out, we are likely to stress the OUT. When we use it as a description of someone’s personality (“She’s so outgoing!”), the stress might show up on the GO. Stress can shift with meaning.
But the stress shift might not be solely connected to the entrenchment of our turkey-eating rituals. The thanksGIVing stress pattern seems to have pre-dated the institution of the American holiday, according to an analysis of the meter of English poems by Mark Liberman at Language Log. ThanksGIVing has been around at least since the 17th century. However you say it, there is precedent to back you up. And room enough to focus on both the thanks and the giving. ~
From Mental Floss
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/88975/how-do-you-stress-word-thanksgiving-or-thanksgiving
-dj
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Nothing like a bit of research to add clarity.
mumsee
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It’s dark over here today, some off-and-on rain has started but there’s supposed to be more steady this afternoon.
Dark. But I said that.
Off to the eye doctor momentarily. Another day, another doctor. -dj
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I don’t buy the North/South divide over pronouncing Thanksgiving, since Kathaleena says she uses and hears the so-called Southern proununciation.
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South Minnesota? 😗
Thunder and lightning here, and so nice not to be wearing glasses in the rain -dj
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Janice, you mentioned NCIS Sydney yesterday. We watched it. I chuckled at the parallel with the first episode of the original NCIS, “Yankee White”. A non-NCIS agent (Secret Service in the original, Australian police in the new), gets into a jurisdiction dispute with NCIS, but reluctantly works with them to solve the case and avert a catastrophe. In the end they go along with the NCIS team and do stuff that gets them fired from their agencies, so at the end of they episode they join NCIS.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think it’s such a traditional holiday that surely the pronunciation has been passed down through our ancestors, maybe from the oldest generation who celebrated it here? I truly have difficulty saying it the other way, like my mouth won’t do it!
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Kevin, I did not realize the echo from the other first episode. I need to tell Art to see if he remembered.
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Good memory, Kevin. I came into the original NCIS belatedly but probably saw the earlier shows in reruns through the years, here and there. But I don’t remember the original episode.
They are formulaic (?) to some degree, but it’s a formula that has seemed to work well; I think they key is getting a good ensemble cast that meshes well.
Eye is good, he said I can pass the DMV exam without glasses (though we’ll still order glasses in a few weeks); the red in my eye is just post-op bruising, nothing to worry about. I go back in a month to see if everything’s stable enough to order glasses, but in the meantime I feel like they eyesight is so amazing (though I needed some low-power drug store readers). -dj
LikeLiked by 5 people
DJ, we came into NCIS belatedly as well, about 5 years in, but USA network was running three hours of reruns every evening and we ended up seeing the first few seasons multiple times. It’s a little embarrassing how well I know those early episodes.
LikeLiked by 2 people
A friend persuaded me to watch it when she caught some old reruns, too (but she never saw it in prime time, she went to bed early and got up at around 4 a.m. I’d heard of the show but had no idea, really, what it was about. I never watched Jag, the program it apparently spun off from.
I went on to watch all of the NCIS episodes from the start on some rerun channel over time, but that was a long time ago and I only watched those programs once — but did so in order as I recall. I apparently had some time on my hands. 🙂
I came into the first-run prime-time shows while Ziva was still a well established part of the team so that also may have been somewhere around the 5-year run mark, not sure. -dj
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Since I grew up where DJ lives, I emphasize the GIV part.
Of course, in Hawai’i, we just said, “Mahalo.”
LikeLiked by 2 people
I found Chad Bird on X-Twitter, read his memoir in one plane flight, bought the book upon arrival at the airport (and Wi-Fi), and have been reading him every day since on X-Twitter (along with Kare’s husband).
I learn so much! Read today:
Chad Bird
@birdchadlouis
Emmanuel, Our Flesh-and-Blood God
Emmanuel is two words in Hebrew, Immanu (“with us”) and El (“God”). This child is the “with-us-God” or, as we say in better English, “God with us.”
Ages before this God-with-us boy was born, he was already with his people, but not in a flesh-and-blood sort of way. He told the patriarchs Isaac and Jacob, “I am with you” (Gen. 26:24; 28:15). Before he sent Moses into Egypt, he said from the burning bush, “I will be with you” (Exod. 3:12). He repeated this promise to Joshua (Deut. 31:23) and others.
It’s one thing for God to be with us as God, but it’s on a whole different level for God to be with us as a fellow human being who spent forty weeks in utero, learned how to crawl then walk, suffered through puberty, and eventually faced the firing squad of Roman crucifiers. We have that God.
And that human God, Jesus of Nazareth, is also our king and Lord. Just consider what that means. Having friends is good. They can be there for us, in good times and bad times. We can lean on them and seek their advice. But our regular friends, well, they have their limitations. They have their own problems, of course, and their own lives, so they can’t be there for us 24/7. Nor can they, if necessary, move heaven and earth to do something for us.
Our flesh-and-blood God can. He is king. He is Lord. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him. And all that authority he exercises for us, his friends, his brothers, his sisters, at whose side he always sticks close.
Just imagine if you had the phone number of the most powerful person in the world, could call or text him anytime, ask him to help you, no matter what, and he would do it in a heartbeat. What we have in Jesus makes that seem like child’s play. He is the creator of heaven and earth. He is king of all nations. He is Lord of all.
Most importantly, he is your Emmanuel, the God with you and the God for you.
We have a God who knows intimately what it is to feel a heart breaking, hot tears running down his cheeks, and blood flowing from gaping wounds. He knows what it’s like to be both loved and hated, as well as betrayed. There is no human emotion foreign to his experience. There is no human need that he has not felt pressing into his soul.
Jesus is our fully divine and fully human God. The image-maker made into the image. The creator become creature.
If you’ve ever wondered just how far the Lord of heaven and earth would go to make sure you were his own, peer down into the manger and look up onto the cross. There’s your answer.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Art got home, and I asked, and he does remember the first episode of NCIS. I see bits and pieces of episodes as I am busy in the kitchen, talking on the phone, etc., while he is devotedly watcjing tv.
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Hmm–well my daughter tells me the emphasis is on ‘give’. I have said it many times and also asked my husband who also thought it was on ‘thanks’. My other daughter thought it was ‘give’, too, and then switched to maybe ‘thanks’. Then said she is just saying it weird now. We are all going to be walking around saying it. Lol.
Now if you had asked us about guitar, we could have told you we definitely have the northern accent.
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I say”guiTAR.”
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