I haven’t followed the “Moore thing”. When it comes on the news, I switch it off. I know Kim doesn’t like him. It doesn’t affect me.
But she didn’t like him before this.
However, I have noticed this:
1. He had a long career and no dirt came out on him until he challenged the system.
2. All of the people accusing him gave Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy and a host of other molesters a pass.
An Alabama woman, Beverly Young Nelson, today accused Roy Moore of groping and assaulting her about 40 years ago when she was 16.
Nelson alleges the assault happened when Moore was a 30-something-year-old prosecutor in the Etowah County District Attorney’s Office. Nelson said she met Moore while working as a waitress at the Old Hickory House, a restaurant off U.S. 431 in Gadsden. The city is about 50 miles northeast of Birmingham and has fewer than 40,000 residents.
During a brief appearance in his small hometown of Gallant in Etowah County late Monday, Moore denied the allegations.
“I never did what she said I did,” Moore told reporters. “I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.”
Nelson and New York attorney Gloria Allred, speaking today at a press conference, called on the Senate Judiciary committee to investigate the allegations ahead of the Dec. 12 Alabama special Senate election. Moore, a Republican is running against Democrat Doug Jones.
Chas, you are correct. I have never liked him. He is an embarrassment to our state. When I REALLY lost it with him was when he was in Fairhope waving a gun around on stage. You know and most gun owners know you don’t do a fool thing like that. The most dangerous gun is the one that isn’t supposed to be loaded and you NEVER wave a gun around in a crowd. Our local police looked into charging him with public endangerment but it happened on private property.
So it all started over unproven accusations and flat out lies. This isn’t how “justice” is supposed to work. The whole thing was a setup from the start.
“The FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump-Russia affair shortly after receiving the first installment of an anti-Trump dossier from a former British spy working for the Hillary Clinton campaign. What congressional investigators want to know is whether that was a coincidence or not.
The first report in the dossier compiled by former MI6 agent Christopher Steele was dated June 20, 2016.
Steele told the left-leaning publication Mother Jones that he took the first part of his dossier to the FBI “near the start of July.”
James Comey, when he was FBI director, told members of the House Intelligence Committee the Trump-Russia investigation began “in late July.”
So the timeline is: The first dossier report was June 20, Steele approached the FBI near the start of July, and the FBI began its investigation in late July.
Steele’s first dossier installment, the June 20 document, cited a “senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure” and a “former top level Russian intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin.” It reported that “Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years” and that “the TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir PUTIN.” Also citing a “senior Russian financial official” and a “close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow,” the dossier said Russians had been feeding Trump “valuable intelligence” on Clinton “for several years.” The report also said “TRUMP’s (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton hotel, where he knew President and Mrs. OBAMA (whom he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a ‘golden showers’ (urination) show in front of him.” The action was all captured by hidden cameras, the dossier said.
The FBI was very interested in Steele’s report, according to Mother Jones’ David Corn, who was personally briefed by Steele:
The former intelligence officer says the response from the FBI was “shock and horror.” The FBI, after receiving the first memo, did not immediately request additional material, according to the former intelligence officer and his American associates. Yet in August, they say, the FBI asked him for all the information in his possession, and for him to explain how the material had been gathered and to identify his sources. The former spy forwarded to the bureau several memos — some of which referred to members of Trump’s inner circle. At that point, he continued to share information with the FBI. “It’s quite clear there was or is a pretty substantial inquiry going on,” he says.
Corn’s report suggested the FBI was surprised by the dossier report’s contents, which in turn suggested the FBI wasn’t already on the case when Steele approached the bureau near the start of July.
Not long after, on July 7, Carter Page, whom Trump had named to a little-used foreign policy advisory board, began a three-day visit to Moscow, where he gave a public commencement speech to a university known as the New Economic School.
In a dossier report dated July 19, Steele wrote that Page had met in Moscow with Igor Sechin, the CEO of Rosneft, the giant Russian oil company, and, separately, with Igor Divyekin, a senior figure in the Putin government. Sechin was known to be very close to Putin and was also under U.S. sanctions. According to Steele’s dossier report, Page and Sechin discussed ending U.S. sanctions against Russia. (A later dossier entry said Sechin offered Page billions of dollars to have Trump lift those sanctions.) Page and Divyekin allegedly discussed “a dossier of ‘kompromat’ the Kremlin possessed on TRUMP’s Democratic presidential rival, Hillary CLINTON, and its possible release to the Republican’s campaign team.”
The dossier information made its way from Steele to the FBI to Capitol Hill. On August 27, the Senate’s then-Minority Leader, Harry Reid, wrote a letter to Comey noting “a series of disturbing reports” about whether “a Trump advisor who has been highly critical of U.S. and European sanctions on Russia…met with high-ranking sanctioned individuals while in Moscow in July of 2016, well after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee.””
—————————-
“The FBI has asked the Senate for unredacted documents it obtained from abortion providers, signaling agents may be investigating whether Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers illegally sold fetal tissue and body parts, according to sources familiar with the document request.
The request was made in recent days, the sources said, to the Senate Judiciary Committee, whose chairman, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), last December referred Planned Parenthood and several other abortion providers to the FBI for investigation after a lengthy probe into the transfers of fetal tissue.
Grassley said at the time that his committee had uncovered enough evidence in its final investigative report to show abortion providers had transferred tissue and body parts from aborted fetuses to firms for use in research by charging dollar amounts above their actual costs.
Abortion providers are allowed under a 1993 law to transfer fetal tissue for research at a cost equal to the price of obtaining it, but are not allowed to sell it at a profit.
The Justice Department declined comment, saying it does not confirm nor deny whether an investigation is taking place.”
Ricky @7:38 Oh wow, thanks! That is the article I’ve been waiting for! It’s the conversation I’ve been hoping to see, held on a highly visible platform like the NYT. They hit so many nails right on the head I don’t think I can mention them all in one day (no time). But here’s a couple of the more notable comments that point the way forward, because we really are in an untenable political position which the country will not be able to tolerate indefinitely:
McCarthy: What Trump has done is to re-politicize basic questions of policy, including foreign policy, that for a long time had been the domain of a narrow range of expert opinion. When it comes to who follows through, I don’t think we should be looking for a single figure, we should be looking rather for a national discussion, a political discussion, throughout our institutions. There’s no blueprint, as some of my realist friends in the academy sometimes seem to believe, that can be smoothly applied to create a new foreign policy. There has to be political give and take — ”political” in the broad sense, in the media as well as in Congress, and among the public. Once Trump no longer personally bestrides the Republican scene, there will be a whole host of squirming and wriggling new mutations evolving their way out of the new environment — I just couldn’t guess what’ll they look like when they’ve all grown up……
Olsen: The conservative-populist alliance is increasingly becoming obviously the only way forward for non-Social Democrats who don’t want to become catchall centrists like Emmanuel Macron or Justin Trudeau. It is the $1,000 bill lying on the ground waiting for someone to pick it up. Eventually, someone will. I think Cotton is farthest along in pursuing it. Nikki Haley is more hawkish than Dan will like, but she would be very well positioned to take up that mantle if she were to leave the United Nations after 2018 and become more of an “all purpose” political figure. We also need more pundits to show some courage, too. Conservatism itself needs to be redefined, and you can’t create a revolution of the heart and the mind simply by adding a couple of tweaks here and there….
Olsen clearly sees a Reaganesque coalition in there somewhere…. :–)
David French with a theological take on the Moore story:
Fear-based, legalistic Christianity, combined with the cult of charismatic leader creates a dysfunctional, predatory culture. I’ve seen it happen: https://t.co/8eJBfeDFR6
Ricky, French says exactly what I’ve been trying to say for the past few years. French mentions Bill Gothard, who headed the ATI homeschooling program that my family was in for ten years. I cannot personally speak to the allegations against Gothard, but I can attest, as I witnessed it both directly and indirectly, that Gothard had a decided preference for pretty young women of a certain type and singled them out for special attention. ATI was as conservative as it gets – no dating only courtship, no birth control, dress codes with only skirts for girls/women, rock music/dancing were of the devil, right wing politics – you name the conservative characteristic, ATI and its parent organization IBLP had it. Only later did I realize the enormous theological errors that were being promoted in the name of reviving the Christian civilization in the West, errors that equaled heresy. Gothard refused to define grace the way every orthodox theologian does, to Gothard, grace wasn’t the theologically sound “unmerited favour”, rather he defined it as “the desire and power to do God’s will.” The work of the Holy Spirit was nowhere in Gothard’s teaching, sanctification was a work done in one’s own strength.
The tentacles of Gothard’s teaching were deeply enmeshed in Republican politics – among the names with a connection to ATI or IBLP are: former Indianapolis mayor and domestic policy advisor to the elder Bush, Stephen Goldsmith and Indianapolis juvenile court judge James Payne, who sent delinquents to Gothard’s Indianapolis Training Centre; former Arkansas State House representative and reality show star Jim Bob Duggar (the Duggars used ATI’s homeschooling materials and the counseling program that the Duggar’s eldest son, Josh, was sent to after he sexually assaulted his own sisters was one of IBLP’s programs), former state governors Mike Huckabee and Jeb Bush who both made use of IBLP’s Character Cities and Character First programs; Oklahoma City mayor Jim Dailey also used the Character First training, while the Greens of Hobby Lobby bought and donated the building that became IBLP’s Oklahoma Training Centre and one that would be familiar to Texans and who was a member of the IBLP board for a time, Dr. James Leininger: http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.ca/2013/09/the-political-reach-of-gothard.html. Although it is only a blog post I just linked to, I know it is true, because I remember the monthly news letters, naming many of these big names and relating the organizations activities in these cities and states and more, worldwide, including training centres in Moscow and New Zealand. One of my siblings worked at the Indianapolis Training Center for several months with the delinquents, while both my older siblings and I took training courses there – courses that were enormously overpriced for any value they offered.
Josh Duggar wasn’t the only sexual predator whose deeds were covered up by ATI’s hypocritical brand of legalism. I personally know of another case within another ATI families, a case which was brought to Gothard but he refused to interfere, and that was years before the allegations about Gothard came to light. So, what French says doesn’t surprise me at all. When I read Senator Moore’s track record, although I am not aware of any connection to ATI, the pattern is awfully familiar – the family values and restoring society theme being touted by one who is entirely personally morally corrupt is old news to me and hundreds of others of my generation who were involved in the ATI or the Vision Forum or the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist movement (including Bob Jones). My family was part of the first and last of those and there is a strong connection between them, although ATI was non-denominational.
*Correction: Jim Dailey was Little Rock’s mayor, and it was the Little Rock Training Center that was donated by Hobby Lobby. IBLP’s Oklahoma City Training Centre was financed by Kimray, Inc.
Wandering Views 
I haven’t followed the “Moore thing”. When it comes on the news, I switch it off. I know Kim doesn’t like him. It doesn’t affect me.
But she didn’t like him before this.
However, I have noticed this:
1. He had a long career and no dirt came out on him until he challenged the system.
2. All of the people accusing him gave Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy and a host of other molesters a pass.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Debra, Here is the article you have been waiting for.
I am beginning to think that you and Douthat are not that far apart.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Brooks has an interesting perspective:
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Gloria Allred may be the Jim Cantore of litigation. When she shows up things are about to go from bad to worse….
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/roy_moore_alabama_sex_claims.html
An Alabama woman, Beverly Young Nelson, today accused Roy Moore of groping and assaulting her about 40 years ago when she was 16.
Nelson alleges the assault happened when Moore was a 30-something-year-old prosecutor in the Etowah County District Attorney’s Office. Nelson said she met Moore while working as a waitress at the Old Hickory House, a restaurant off U.S. 431 in Gadsden. The city is about 50 miles northeast of Birmingham and has fewer than 40,000 residents.
During a brief appearance in his small hometown of Gallant in Etowah County late Monday, Moore denied the allegations.
“I never did what she said I did,” Moore told reporters. “I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.”
Nelson and New York attorney Gloria Allred, speaking today at a press conference, called on the Senate Judiciary committee to investigate the allegations ahead of the Dec. 12 Alabama special Senate election. Moore, a Republican is running against Democrat Doug Jones.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Chas, you are correct. I have never liked him. He is an embarrassment to our state. When I REALLY lost it with him was when he was in Fairhope waving a gun around on stage. You know and most gun owners know you don’t do a fool thing like that. The most dangerous gun is the one that isn’t supposed to be loaded and you NEVER wave a gun around in a crowd. Our local police looked into charging him with public endangerment but it happened on private property.
LikeLiked by 1 person
So it all started over unproven accusations and flat out lies. This isn’t how “justice” is supposed to work. The whole thing was a setup from the start.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-did-dossier-trigger-the-trump-russia-probe/article/2640470
“The FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump-Russia affair shortly after receiving the first installment of an anti-Trump dossier from a former British spy working for the Hillary Clinton campaign. What congressional investigators want to know is whether that was a coincidence or not.
The first report in the dossier compiled by former MI6 agent Christopher Steele was dated June 20, 2016.
Steele told the left-leaning publication Mother Jones that he took the first part of his dossier to the FBI “near the start of July.”
James Comey, when he was FBI director, told members of the House Intelligence Committee the Trump-Russia investigation began “in late July.”
So the timeline is: The first dossier report was June 20, Steele approached the FBI near the start of July, and the FBI began its investigation in late July.
Steele’s first dossier installment, the June 20 document, cited a “senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure” and a “former top level Russian intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin.” It reported that “Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years” and that “the TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir PUTIN.” Also citing a “senior Russian financial official” and a “close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow,” the dossier said Russians had been feeding Trump “valuable intelligence” on Clinton “for several years.” The report also said “TRUMP’s (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton hotel, where he knew President and Mrs. OBAMA (whom he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a ‘golden showers’ (urination) show in front of him.” The action was all captured by hidden cameras, the dossier said.
The FBI was very interested in Steele’s report, according to Mother Jones’ David Corn, who was personally briefed by Steele:
The former intelligence officer says the response from the FBI was “shock and horror.” The FBI, after receiving the first memo, did not immediately request additional material, according to the former intelligence officer and his American associates. Yet in August, they say, the FBI asked him for all the information in his possession, and for him to explain how the material had been gathered and to identify his sources. The former spy forwarded to the bureau several memos — some of which referred to members of Trump’s inner circle. At that point, he continued to share information with the FBI. “It’s quite clear there was or is a pretty substantial inquiry going on,” he says.
Corn’s report suggested the FBI was surprised by the dossier report’s contents, which in turn suggested the FBI wasn’t already on the case when Steele approached the bureau near the start of July.
Not long after, on July 7, Carter Page, whom Trump had named to a little-used foreign policy advisory board, began a three-day visit to Moscow, where he gave a public commencement speech to a university known as the New Economic School.
In a dossier report dated July 19, Steele wrote that Page had met in Moscow with Igor Sechin, the CEO of Rosneft, the giant Russian oil company, and, separately, with Igor Divyekin, a senior figure in the Putin government. Sechin was known to be very close to Putin and was also under U.S. sanctions. According to Steele’s dossier report, Page and Sechin discussed ending U.S. sanctions against Russia. (A later dossier entry said Sechin offered Page billions of dollars to have Trump lift those sanctions.) Page and Divyekin allegedly discussed “a dossier of ‘kompromat’ the Kremlin possessed on TRUMP’s Democratic presidential rival, Hillary CLINTON, and its possible release to the Republican’s campaign team.”
The dossier information made its way from Steele to the FBI to Capitol Hill. On August 27, the Senate’s then-Minority Leader, Harry Reid, wrote a letter to Comey noting “a series of disturbing reports” about whether “a Trump advisor who has been highly critical of U.S. and European sanctions on Russia…met with high-ranking sanctioned individuals while in Moscow in July of 2016, well after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee.””
—————————-
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Another view, updated for yesterday’s disclosures:
https://www.politico.com/trump-russia-ties-scandal-guide/timeline-of-events
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Good.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/360154-fbi-seeks-senate-documents-signaling-possible-probe-into-sale-of-fetal-tissue
“The FBI has asked the Senate for unredacted documents it obtained from abortion providers, signaling agents may be investigating whether Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers illegally sold fetal tissue and body parts, according to sources familiar with the document request.
The request was made in recent days, the sources said, to the Senate Judiciary Committee, whose chairman, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), last December referred Planned Parenthood and several other abortion providers to the FBI for investigation after a lengthy probe into the transfers of fetal tissue.
Grassley said at the time that his committee had uncovered enough evidence in its final investigative report to show abortion providers had transferred tissue and body parts from aborted fetuses to firms for use in research by charging dollar amounts above their actual costs.
Abortion providers are allowed under a 1993 law to transfer fetal tissue for research at a cost equal to the price of obtaining it, but are not allowed to sell it at a profit.
The Justice Department declined comment, saying it does not confirm nor deny whether an investigation is taking place.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
This piece says it was well-known at the time that Roy Moore liked to date teenage girls, & that he would hang out at the mall where the girls were.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/local-residents-moore-was-known-for-flirting-with-dating-teenage-girls/ar-BBEVRWo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
LikeLiked by 3 people
Ricky @7:38 Oh wow, thanks! That is the article I’ve been waiting for! It’s the conversation I’ve been hoping to see, held on a highly visible platform like the NYT. They hit so many nails right on the head I don’t think I can mention them all in one day (no time). But here’s a couple of the more notable comments that point the way forward, because we really are in an untenable political position which the country will not be able to tolerate indefinitely:
Olsen clearly sees a Reaganesque coalition in there somewhere…. :–)
LikeLiked by 1 person
David French with a theological take on the Moore story:
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Hope this link works. This funny. . .
https://scontent.fzty1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23658687_10101922980109750_7371158911135183061_n.jpg?oh=91b3ba33d8fa031ffdd8cc033c183a34&oe=5A6421A8
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ricky, French says exactly what I’ve been trying to say for the past few years. French mentions Bill Gothard, who headed the ATI homeschooling program that my family was in for ten years. I cannot personally speak to the allegations against Gothard, but I can attest, as I witnessed it both directly and indirectly, that Gothard had a decided preference for pretty young women of a certain type and singled them out for special attention. ATI was as conservative as it gets – no dating only courtship, no birth control, dress codes with only skirts for girls/women, rock music/dancing were of the devil, right wing politics – you name the conservative characteristic, ATI and its parent organization IBLP had it. Only later did I realize the enormous theological errors that were being promoted in the name of reviving the Christian civilization in the West, errors that equaled heresy. Gothard refused to define grace the way every orthodox theologian does, to Gothard, grace wasn’t the theologically sound “unmerited favour”, rather he defined it as “the desire and power to do God’s will.” The work of the Holy Spirit was nowhere in Gothard’s teaching, sanctification was a work done in one’s own strength.
The tentacles of Gothard’s teaching were deeply enmeshed in Republican politics – among the names with a connection to ATI or IBLP are: former Indianapolis mayor and domestic policy advisor to the elder Bush, Stephen Goldsmith and Indianapolis juvenile court judge James Payne, who sent delinquents to Gothard’s Indianapolis Training Centre; former Arkansas State House representative and reality show star Jim Bob Duggar (the Duggars used ATI’s homeschooling materials and the counseling program that the Duggar’s eldest son, Josh, was sent to after he sexually assaulted his own sisters was one of IBLP’s programs), former state governors Mike Huckabee and Jeb Bush who both made use of IBLP’s Character Cities and Character First programs; Oklahoma City mayor Jim Dailey also used the Character First training, while the Greens of Hobby Lobby bought and donated the building that became IBLP’s Oklahoma Training Centre and one that would be familiar to Texans and who was a member of the IBLP board for a time, Dr. James Leininger: http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.ca/2013/09/the-political-reach-of-gothard.html. Although it is only a blog post I just linked to, I know it is true, because I remember the monthly news letters, naming many of these big names and relating the organizations activities in these cities and states and more, worldwide, including training centres in Moscow and New Zealand. One of my siblings worked at the Indianapolis Training Center for several months with the delinquents, while both my older siblings and I took training courses there – courses that were enormously overpriced for any value they offered.
Josh Duggar wasn’t the only sexual predator whose deeds were covered up by ATI’s hypocritical brand of legalism. I personally know of another case within another ATI families, a case which was brought to Gothard but he refused to interfere, and that was years before the allegations about Gothard came to light. So, what French says doesn’t surprise me at all. When I read Senator Moore’s track record, although I am not aware of any connection to ATI, the pattern is awfully familiar – the family values and restoring society theme being touted by one who is entirely personally morally corrupt is old news to me and hundreds of others of my generation who were involved in the ATI or the Vision Forum or the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist movement (including Bob Jones). My family was part of the first and last of those and there is a strong connection between them, although ATI was non-denominational.
LikeLiked by 2 people
*Correction: Jim Dailey was Little Rock’s mayor, and it was the Little Rock Training Center that was donated by Hobby Lobby. IBLP’s Oklahoma City Training Centre was financed by Kimray, Inc.
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