67 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 9-19-17

  1. Good morning! I hope AJ and family are still enjoying their travels.

    I tried very hard to buy a refrigerator from my brother. Yesterday afternoon I drove almost an hour to get to His store. I had selected a black stainless LG top freezer model. They had it online but not in the store so it would be a special order. And to get the promo code sale price along with the employee discount, my brother had to let another employee ring up the sale. So my brother would not even get commission for the sale. Everything seemed to be processed correctly until the higher level manager came over and said they can’t process the special order through the store because they can’t guarantee the product will ever show up. So that got dashed. While at the store I did find a Kitchen Aid large toaster oven that was on clearance. It was missing a button. I got it for 42.00 which is a great deal. A new button is around 5 bucks from Kitchen Aid parts dept. They also had the little composition notebooks for 24 cents each so I bought 16 of those. After I left the store, I drove straight to J. C. Penney’s and bought the original LG stainless with the bottom freezer that was going off sale price today. It had been my first choice.

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  2. A few comments on yesterday’s thread
    Regarding hair bows: In the South, the bigger the bow; the better the mama. Not only does this mean that Little Missy is properly dressed, it also shows in some cases who won the Battle that morning.
    Also, my post yesterday did not seem to have a happy ending. I had told the woman I worked in Pensacola and could get her to the bus station there. I also told her I left my house around 7 am. She contacted me wanting to know if I could take her to the bus station in Mobile for a bus that was leaving at 6:15 this morning. I sought advice from a minister friend. He explained that having been in this position before himself, there was a good chance that I could get her to a bus station and she wouldn’t even have a ticket and expect me to pay for it. He also explained that if she couldn’t have the —not sure exactly how he said it—but if she was unable to play by my schedule and what I said I could do, that chances were I wouldn’t be able to help anyway. I realize I am not explaining this well, but he pretty much absolved me of any further obligation. I got her to and from the store on Sunday, I offered the help I could give, then he reminded me of Boundaries.

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  3. For Michelle—You mentioned on yesterday’s prayer thread about a friend dying. My Aunt G died in 1994. She had been paralyzed since February 14, 1972. At her funeral I sat between my dad and one of my uncles while another uncle (by marriage) sang this song. I felt the pew shake and looked at my uncle who was sobbing, then at my dad who had tears streaming down his face.

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  4. Linda, the black stainless does not show fingerprints like the regular stainless. It does not look as dark as a flat black, but is pretty dark. In the model I was looking at it was 100 dollars more than regular stainless. The model I bought had only the regular stainless for a good sale price. The black stainless was several hundred more. I do not know if it is the new thing. I was thinking since I have some white appliances in the same room that I might try to redo the kitchen in black and white (loved Donna’s bathroom that much, and I have a cat to match). That was my main thought in wanting black stainless.

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  5. Kim, I think you made to right decision WRT the lady. You did what you could and, unless you don’t have problems of your own, you don’t want to get embroiled in someone else’s problem that may not be fixable.
    She needs to go back home, to square one and forget this guy.

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  6. The black stainless looking appliances are the newest. Regular stainless is a lot of trouble to keep clean. It is by no means STAIN-less…so I will share THE SECRET. Shhh….this is just between us.
    WD40.
    That’s right. It fixes everything, including the prints and watermarks and every other little thing on stainless appliances. Keep a soft cloth just for this task. Spray the WD40 on the cloth and wipe down the appliances. It lasts longer than any of the “stainless” cleaners out there.

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  7. I was surprised (and pleased) to see white making a comeback in appliances when I was shopping for my washer/dryer a few months ago. I like the bright colored appliances but those are dicey as I suspect one would tire of them in time. And those of us who grew up in the avocado green, gold harvest days of appliances bought by our mothers know that some of those trendy hues just don’t wear well through the years.

    White is boring, but it tends to endure even amid with style changes (for traditional looks anyway).

    I’d love to do black and white in the kitchen but, alas, it’ll have to wait (maybe forever). I did think of maybe changing out the bullnose counter rim tiles only (for black) to contrast with the pale white/yellow/cream counter tiles, but it sounds like even that would be tricky and probably wind up being expensive in terms of labor. Luckily, I don’t “hate” what’s there now, I can live with it.

    But I’m still holding out hope of a new floor …

    It’s overcast and cool here this morning, no sun. I think the temperatures go back up into the 80s next week, but for now we’re enjoying a nice preview run of fall.

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  8. We have a commercial playing, not sure if it’s for a national company or a local one (in other words, I don’t know whether y’all would have seen it too) where an older lady (we’re guessing a widow with life insurance to burn) talks about “updating” her “dated” kitchen and bath, and she shows the new kitchen and bathroom and how wonderful this company is.

    Problem is, both kitchen and bath are dark, dark tiles, and a lot of them–dark browns. To me, even in the commercial where it’s being presented as beautiful, it’s depressing and ugly. And I can imagine that two or three years from now, when everyone who is willing to be guilted into “updating” their homes has done so, it will be seen to be as ugly and dark and depressing as it looks to me right now, and many, many of the people who chose that style will be updating again (even people who don’t necessarily update the moment a new trend comes along) . . . and many more who chose that style will wish they hadn’t!

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  9. Like my peach tiled bathroom circa 1970 ๐Ÿ™‚ I went back to the 1920s, the era of the house, and I don’t think you can go too wrong if you have a historic-style house to go with that.

    My bathroom is mostly bright white, which I love — they liked that look in the ’20s because it was so clean and sanitary.

    My kitchen also was redone around that same time — actually, it was an add-on to the back of the house, so not part of the original structure at all. Natural grain (medium/dark but warm) cabinets, pale buttercream tiled counters (the tile is still in very good condition) and pale yellow vinyl flooring. It could have all been much worse considering the 1970s era ๐Ÿ™‚ They stuck with a more traditional look. It could have been all orange and bright yellow and bright green, after all.

    I am swapping out the cabinet hardware knobs to change up the look a bit — I’d put in white porcelain knobs when I moved in and have grown tired of them (though it’s still a ‘cute’ look I think). I went with dark bronze mission style knobs, some with backplates for the longer cabinets. I’d love a subtle Spanish motif (real) tiled floor in there — nothing garish or too crazy, modest, soft colors, a simple spare design if any, maybe with terra-cotta accents, but it would have to be on the lighter side as the cabinets are darker & I’ve decided not to paint them (for now).

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  10. My neighbor said her (grown) kids are giving her a hard time about updating her bathroom She redid it probably a couple decades ago in that French country style, rather frilly with pale wood tones. They told her it’s “dated.” It probably is, it reminds me of the 1980s/’90s looks, but I suspect bathrooms and kitchens are destined to become dated as the popular looks come and go — and those are 2 rooms that sometimes “have” to be redone to keep them functioning through the years.

    Historic & classic work best for me in my little 1920s Spanish-bungalow house, but having a more contemporary house would be more of a challenge I suppose.

    Yeah, wish I could “take the kitchen back” to a more original look. But as I said, it could have been SO much worse considering what was stylish in the 1960s and ’70s. ๐Ÿ™‚

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  11. Although … “mid-century” is a very popular look again, at least in architecture and furniture design, if you’ve noticed. I grew up with those looks and find them unappealing, but some younger co-workers are crazy about it. Go figure.

    Orange and yellow, harvest gold & avocado green may make a big comeback. …

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  12. Wow, I had no idea Siamese cats could talk like that. I like it, and I bet Samster would too. In the place we bought him there was a Siamese cat and the owner would let them both loose once a day. Samster would run around (toddle around actually, with those short stubby legs) having a great time. The cat would tease Samster until he got close, then he would jump up on a high shelf and watch as Samster tried to find him. :–)

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  13. An excerpt from a random e-mail

    At the same time, the Federal Reserve continues to inflate the money supply so that the government can repay its debt in increasingly devalued dollars. But that makes the dollars you hold worth less too. It makes it more expensive every year for you to buy food, pay medical expenses, and fill up your car……

    Lots of fe-mails and TV commercials say, essentially:

    “The banks are going to fail. The government is broke.” The government will take all your money and what you have left won’t be any good”

    The only sure thing is silver and gold.
    We have lots of silver and gold.
    Buy your silver and gold from us. While-
    Your money is still good.

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  14. So what is a radical Christian? I understand what a radical Muslim is, somebody who takes the Koran and other teachings seriously, but what is a radical Christian?

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  15. There is white stuff on those mountains, and I don’t think it is just fog. I started the fire in the stove. It is time. Highs in the forties and low fifties. That is good in the spring but an adjustment after a couple of months in the nineties.

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  16. Kim is my hero once again. Husband bought a stainless steel fridge. I have never been a fan as I am not a fan of housework. I said, so, how do we make it look clean. He, I don’t know. And then Kim steps up to the plate and amazingly, the fridge looks clean!

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  17. Well, mumsee, at least with a wood stove ๐Ÿ™‚ And a fireplace.

    Kitchens are the most expensive rooms to re-do, I’m told. My bathroom was forced due to leaks that required a tear-out to the studs. But, for now, the kitchen actually is functioning ok as far as I know. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, I suppose.

    Still, a new floor in there would be so nice …

    Interesting piece on the rise of house churches:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2017/09/house-churches-draft/

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  18. It’s interesting, too, how passionate people’s opinions are about house decor and remodeling styles. The whole painted vs. wood cabinet debate in kitchens, for example (I happen to like both, but I’m an exception), rages in online house threads. The divide is HUGE and very passionate and opinionated.

    I suppose women especially have strong ideas and like to re-do their homes in what pleases them.

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  19. Which is why we never moved our kitchen to the new place when we increased the house. But it has served well as a bedroom and now a schoolroom. With very high outlets.

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  20. I am glad people have different decor passions It allows me to enjoy the variety without the personal expense. Same with landscaping. The Creator gives us the building blocks and sets us ffree to be creative.

    I thoroughly enjoyed Donna’s remodel. Can’t wait to see what we’re doing next. :–)

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  21. My black and white cat “NEEDs” a kitchen to match.

    The weather is perfect here. It is difficult to believe how truly horrid it was when Irma came through. I think people will talk about it for a long time.

    I am still guessing whether or not things are still good in the refrigerator. Getting a new one makes it easier to toss out things.

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  22. In my house in Nashville, the beautiful pine cabinets were part of what sold me the house. The cabinets were lovely and plentiful, with some bottom ones being extra large. Each door was made up of three panels, and they were a lovely design. They had some wear, and in fact the bottom of a couple of them had some toothmarks from some historical puppy or kitten (part of what made me determined Misten would never chew wood).

    My next-door neighbor had the same cabinets, only fewer of them. But theirs had been painted white, and rather than looking like lovingly crafts cabinets, they looked like cabinets made of nailed together pieces of wood, maybe plywood. I was amazed what a difference paint made in that instance, taking lovely wood to ugly wood.

    Three or four years after I sold my house, a new owner tore out those lovely cabinets and the working stove, original to the house (and thus about 60 years old–I got a new cord and a new element), and I imagine that the new kitchen might be quite “updated.” But the cabinets just can’t be as functional, or as pretty, as those sturdy, solid wood, plentiful pine cabinets that were a big part of what made me choose to buy that house.

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  23. See?

    Painted vs. natural grain wood stain on kitchen cabinets — it’s like a political divide.

    As I’ve said, I like both, but I’m an exception.

    I don’t know that my cabinets are top of the line, probably not, but they appear to be maple and they attach to the ceiling — and there are many of them. Replacing them would cost a lot; even paying to replace just the fronts or doors (which are flat and I’d really prefer the shaker style doors in which the centers are inset) would be way expensive.

    And my reluctance to paint — even though I’ve seem some amazingly awesome painted kitchen cabinet photos — is that it’s not an easy job & the paint won’t probably come off. So unless I’m sure I’m *done* with these wood grained cabinets, better to do nothing. I do like them, actually; they’re not exactly what I’d pick, but they’re definitely not bad. And I did have glass fronts put into 4 of the cabinet doors in a modification I did early on after I moved in. One of the best things I did and I don’t recall it was very expensive, it was a carpenter who made large cabinets and advertised in our classified section at the time, super nice young guy working on his own.

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  24. Oooh, oooh, ooh, I just found a nice use for those little styrofoam peanuts! They aren’t often included in packing anymore, but I have a few of them in my boxes of “packing material.” well, I’m packing up tiny little ceramic animals from my shadow boxes, and some of them work well rolled into small bubble wrap, but with several of them I’m taking an old film canister (remember those? I’ve held onto the ones I had, knowing I won’t easily get more in the future) and breaking a peanut into several pieces. I put a piece in the bottom for padding, put in the animal, add a couple of pieces of the peanut on the sides and the top, and put the lid on–and the little critter is safely enclosed and won’t be going anywhere.

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  25. Re: The article on house churches – I had to chuckle with the opening sentence, “The landscape of contemporary Christianity now includes groups of Christians who get together in each otherโ€™s homes and declare themselves a church.”

    “Now includes” house churches? I attend one that’s been going for over 40 years. I know of several other churches that started as house churches back in the 60s or 70s. And the Amish have always met in houses.

    I guess they now more noticeable to the main stream.

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  26. Peter L, I thought of you and yours when I saw that. And I was reading that bit in Luke and Mark,9 when the disciples came to Jesus and said, what about this guy, he does not meet with us and is proclaiming You, should we shut him down? And Jesus replied, no, those who are not against us are for us. His people come in many ways and look different from each other and we had best not disdain them for that if they are preaching Jesus Christ and Him crucified and raised again.

    I watched another Chan video, http://crazylove.org/sermon/360, and it gives a clear message that the work is the work of the Spirit. All we can do is present the Truth, it is up to him to perform the miracle. And it is His desire that we love Him. Good stuff.

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  27. Mumsee, the house church piece did have some good questions, though, because Scripture does tell us a lot about how to “do church.” And some house churches are just people disgruntled with church, and many times actively opposed to “the institutional church” and opposed to a “hierarchy” within the church (pastors and elders). Those are not valid churches.

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  28. Peter, they certainly are not new but they may be going through another wave of popularity — I knew of a house church years ago my friends were involved in, it was not one of the better examples of it in my mind, and I think the article raises some valid points and questions to consider.

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  29. Every time I opened up this website I think, “Oh, poor AJ, such awful weather for his vacation.”

    House churches may need to become more popular as the younger generation isn’t tithing or at least not donating to their local churches like the older one. Just a thought.

    Off to watch five year olds try to play soccer.

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  30. Just an observation from the one house church my friends were involved in was that (it seemed to me, anyway), that it was a way for some of the men to retain complete spiritual control over their families without putting themselves, also, under any earthly spiritual authority.

    I may have been wrong, but knowing my friends’ church history (and having gone to their house church a couple times — this was back east) — that’s one of the conclusions I came to. Each of the men shared preaching duties (none were ordained or had seminary backgrounds that I knew of) and each served their own families communion. Well meaning, and godly people, but we are all so prone to “get it wrong” and to go off on our favorite spiritual hobby horses that it’s something that has some built-in dangers.

    My friends eventually pulled out of that church and decided (the husband’s decision) to meet simply as a singular family in their own home on Sunday mornings. Even more exclusive, which struck me again as a dangerous path to travel.

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  31. The first time I went to DJ’s site, it was very abbreviated with a bunch of lines across a lot of it. I did not see any questions. It is longer and no lines this time. But the questions just seem to be about side issues rather than actual theological questions. Is ordination a Scriptural thing or a traditional thing?

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  32. That is dangerous and I have known of people who went that route and continued into deeper error. And being accountable is important especially when dealing with fallen mankind.

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  33. Just trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are gems and things to learn about God and they appear in very unlikely places at times.

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  34. Our church, and the ones we are in fellowship with, started in the 70s with an ordained Southern Baptist evangelist ordaining the original pastors. He traveled with Leonard Ravenhill for a while. Most of the men have not attended seminary, but study to show themselves approved. All the churches believe in multiple elders, though some of them only have one.They are all accountable to each other, so if one starts teaching error, the others lovingly correct him. One has written a couple of books based on his studies of Romans and other Pauline epistles. If you are interested I can post a link to the books. Right now I am being called to supper, so I must go.

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  35. Mumsee, Scripture speaks of laying on of hands, and it also speaks of elders. So clearly there is a distinction of elders from other people, and some sort of significance in their choosing.

    Also, George Barna seems to me to be one of the leaders of the movement, and he has never seemed to have a lot of respect for the church. I have less and less respect for him as time goes by. For a while he was encouraging market-driven “churches,” and now he seems to be encouraging stepping away from elder-led churches altogether. He does not speak wisdom in this. There may be a reason in a certain time and place to have house churches, especially temporary ones, but to despise any other sort is not biblical.

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  36. So is that what ordination is? Laying on of hands by somebody who was ordained before? Does this work its way back to the apostles?

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  37. The Bible is very clear on what an elder is, I get that part. Just trying to figure out ordination. I could google it but that is not the same as discussing it to learn what others are thinking.

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  38. Definition of ordain
    transitive verb
    1 :to invest (see 1invest 1) officially (as by the laying on of hands) with ministerial or priestly authority

    was ordained as a priest

    2 a :to establish or order by appointment, decree, or law :enact

    we the people โ€ฆ do ordain and establish this Constitutionโ€”U.S. Constitution

    b :destine, foreordain

    It is futile to try to avoid what destiny has ordained.

    intransitive verb
    :to issue an order

    so the gods have ordained

    There, I googled it. That is from the Merriam Webster dictionary. Still does not tell me anything.

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  39. From our denomination (the Orthodox Presbyterian Church):

    https://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=207

    _________________________________

    The Biblical requirements for the ordination of a minister can be found in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:7-9 …

    … In these passages, besides being a man of Christian maturity and integrity, the minister must be one who is able to teach, give instruction in sound doctrine, and confute those who contradict. In order to fulfill that calling, the OPC requires that a minister ordinarily be a seminary graduate. (The same is not required of a ruling elder.) You can look at recommended curriculum for ministerial preparation to see the important areas of study we would expect a seminary education to cover here.

    Still, we recognize that there will be times when God has called and gifted a man for ministry who has not had that formal theological education. Our Book of Church Order says that an exception may be granted “only if the presbytery, after reporting the whole matter to the general assembly and weighing such advice as it may offer, shall judge, by a three-fourths vote of the members present, that such exception is warranted by the qualifications of the candidate.”

    Every minister in the OPC must be carefully examined. We believe that our requirements for ordination are not only called for by the passages above but are an important way of protecting Christ’s flock from harm. It is dangerous to give the sacred office to unqualified men. You wouldn’t want an unqualified doctor to operate on you, especially in a matter of life and death. Ministers are spiritual physicians, and the faithful proclamation of God’s word is a matter of eternal life and death
    _____________________________________

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  40. That is all well and good and we can all bring up anecdotes of men who have failed in their leadership capacity even though they were officially recognized. We do the best we can and that is good. And I like that they leave open the possibilities that God may have another one He has prepared, and a way of recognizing that.

    But it appears each organization has its own ordination process. Do they allow a Baptist ordained minister to speak in a Presbyterian church? I know our Baptist preacher used to speak at the Christian church but the newest pastor does not allow it based on theological differences. Who decides that sort of thing?

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  41. I haven’t followed this discussion carefully. I just got her and scanned it.
    However, I have some comments about the church.

    A church is an assembly of baptized believers. It is there to worship God and proclaim the Word. It’s purpose is not, essentially, to grow. However in it’s attempt to win people to Christ and propagate the message. Logically, it will grow.
    There is no Biblical justification for associations and similar types of organizations, but they are not forbidden.
    It is logical that like minded people should organize. There are deacons and elders but the ministry/authority//organization of these are not spiritually described. Except deacons were created to relieve apostles (church leadership) from mundane responsibility.

    A family is a family, not a church.

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  42. Thanks for that clarification, Chas. That is what I thought but know I am somewhat out of the loop so wondered if there was more.

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  43. Mumsee, our church has had a Baptist preach several times (a Reformed Baptist minister), and my church in Nashville had one pastor who had initially been ordained Southern Baptist and was eventually (while I was there) ordained PCA. To preach in our denomination, a man must be ordained (being ordained as an elder, not necessarily as a “teaching elder” or pastor) or preparing for the ministry (e.g., in seminary) and in substantial agreement with our theology.

    Scripture actually gives quite a bit about an elder’s responsibility, some of it in the list of qualifications (which would suggest what he is expected to be able to do), some in the Pastoral Epistles (counsel to pastors).

    Churches partnering with other churches not only “makes sense,” but it really is the only way for a pastor to have accountability. The Reformed world (and others, I’m sure) have a couple of “loose cannons” who are basically self-ordained, accountable to no one, and accused of quite a few acts of spiritual abuse, but with fame and popularity and no real accountability for pastors, all the flock can really do is leave that particular church, knowing they are likely to be shunned by all their homeschooling friends (whose children are their children’s friends). There is real danger in operating totally independently with no outside accountability. That was what kept Bill Gothard going for decades, too–he decided who was or wasn’t on his board, and those who developed questions about his actions were released from the board, and often from their jobs and their whole social circles.

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  44. I would say that is why we are all supposed to be grounded in the Truth, so we can see the wolves. And that is why we have the protection of the brethren. And that is why being an elder is such an important job, watching out for the flock, and why it can so quickly go amiss. Thinking of the time of the indulgences for one.

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  45. Hey all! We made it home safely. We did not bring any lizards. But I did get some great shots, including a few sneaky ones for some “Where’s Waldo?”

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  46. I’m still up. I read the further comments on Chan and incidentally, house churches. Chan left the mega church he founded and seems to be running some kind of house church movement called ‘We Are Church’: http://www.christianpost.com/news/francis-chan-goes-into-detail-with-facebook-employees-on-why-he-left-his-megachurch-190136/. It is another thing my relatives find attractive, as they run down the mainstream church using the same terms, and are very attracted to the house church movement.

    I went to Mexico eleven years ago with a team of people who were mainly from a house church. They were nice, sincere people, but there were elements that concerned me even then, and which I now recognize as doctrinal instability due to spiritual immaturity and failing to “rightly divide the word of truth.” One of the daughters of the families is now running a house church with her husband (or were the last I heard), and some of their worship practices and interpretations of scripture that have been reported to me through various channels I found distinctly concerning (my sources are reliable). My greatest concern with house churches is not even so much the lack of oversight of the teachers – though that is also a concern – as the lack of wider fellowship with other believers of differing experiences, backgrounds, and educations, as house churches tend to gather ‘like-minded’ people, often those discontent with other churches. “In the multitude of councilors, there is safety” says Proverbs. The tiny church my family attend has some of those elements of insularity as it is the size of a house church, and it is not tending towards spiritual maturity of the congregation. Furthermore, its small size attracts the chronically malcontented church hoppers, who often ride very strange Scriptural interpretations around as hobby horses.

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  47. Yay! AJ and peeps made it home. And we now get to travel vicariously through his photos! Fun lizard to begin our journey.

    This discussion on churches is very enlightening. It is especially helpful as my church looks at options going forward.

    Concerning ordination, I know of a same sex couple who had arranged for an ordained minister to perform their ceremony. The person backed out and they had to scramble to find someone else. They were able to find a person willing to become ordained through something offered on the Internet. So, as in the case of other sacred words, ordination does not always carry the weight of its traditional meaning.

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