I mentioned before that Pastor Steve is preaching through Philippians. He is now in Chapter 3. Last Sunday, he preached Phil. 3:1-3. It’s unusual for me to hear new concepts after all these years. But I heard one Sunday.
Phil. 3:3 says (KJV) “For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”
OK. He was preaching along as they all do. But his was a 4-point sermon.
Point 4 (As I remember it. I didn’t take notes.) We worship God in the spirit, we do our thing as Christians and don’t try to affect, nor worry about the world around us.
This is new to me. I don’t know how much I agree with that. But it’s something to think about.
There is nothing in Scripture that says we are supposed to change the world. We are to be salt and light. But we are not tasked with changing the world.
Re: Discussions yesterday. Post-millenialists think the Church will cause the millennium.
But there is no indication in the Bible that we are to affect the non-Christian world.
After the conversion of Constantine, Christianity became tolerated then it became dominant. Then the rulers became subject to the Pope, though they often hated each other. Bear with me, I don’t have time no space to elaborate. But the point is, when religion became dominant, the dark ages came upon Europe. Then, with the Reformation, the opposing sides warred. As Phos pointed out, The Treaty of Westphalia separated the political and religious. That is, neither affected the other. (Though we know that was never completely true.)
The result of that turned out good for religion and government. (Parallel observation. It is sharia that drags Islam down. But sharia is an essential part of their religion.)
I read a book years ago. I think it was Chuck Colson, but I don’t even remember that. It was How Now, Should We Live? Salt and Light. We see our culture falling into chaos. What can we do about it?
That theory is that we do nothing about it. We do our bit as followers of Christ and pray that the world will follow.
The idea is that Blue Laws, (foe example) are not scriptural. Nor any other laws that are made from a religious standpoint.
There are some laws that are made from non-religious, purely humanitarian values. Abortion, for example.
Re defining marriage is a cultural thing.
But not religious laws.
I’m still pondering how this affects me
Just something to think about.
Chas, that 4th point sounds Libertarianish. I too will think about that…
As to my position on the Second Coming, I am solidly on the fence!
I want Christians to go to heaven before Tribulation. (Pre Trib)
I think Christians will go to Heaven after the first part of the 7 years of the Tribulation. (Mid Trib)
I don’t want Christians to go through the second part of the 7 years of the Tribulation. (Post Trib)
I don’t think the Tribulation is over and we are living in the Millennium. (Post Mil)
I’d say a clearer way to say it (than it is the “church”) the post-mil position is that God is bringing about the culmination of history through the means of spreading the gospel, if that helps clarify. This happens not by an imposition of laws, but it happens from the bottom up as the gospel permeates, which is reflected on the larger stage as a matter of course.
Our laws, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the nation and era, are to reflect God’s moral law.
As the gospel is shared throughout the world, its influence spreads, resulting in a benefit to society as a whole — ending slavery, caring for the poor, protecting children.
The author of a book I’m reading (“Thriving in Babylon,” Larry Osborne), had this to say about end times and the study of the book of Daniel:
“As a pastor, I’m regularly asked by folks in my congregation to explain how Daniel’s visions and other biblical end-times prophecies fit together. They want me to tell them exactly what each symbol means and how everything will play out. They want names, places and pseicfic dates on the calendar.
“Now I could guess. I could speculate. Many of my predecessors an peers have done so. But something gives me pause. No matter how confidently they have asserted their theories and ideas, they’ve all been wrong. Dead wrong. If you haven’t noticed, there’s not much of a market for old prophecy books.
“That’s because for 2,000 years, brilliant and godly Bible scholars have carefully studied Scripture and come up with theories and predictions that made a ton of sense at the time but now seem laughable. Some go back centuries. Some can be traced back a millennium or more. Some are rather recent. But they all have one thing in common. With the passage of time, their carefully researched ‘facts’ have turned out to be wild speculation.
“That’s why I quit making end-times predictions. I’ve quit trying to explain what I don’t understand. I know Jesus is coming back. On that I am quite certain. But as to exactly when and how he will work out all the nitty-gritty details, I’m a bit foggy. …”
“I’m simply saying that we need to be careful when we make prophetic predictions because whenever we turn the bulk of our attention to deciphering the obscure, we tend to miss the obvious. …”
Wandering Views 
I mentioned before that Pastor Steve is preaching through Philippians. He is now in Chapter 3. Last Sunday, he preached Phil. 3:1-3. It’s unusual for me to hear new concepts after all these years. But I heard one Sunday.
Phil. 3:3 says (KJV) “For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”
OK. He was preaching along as they all do. But his was a 4-point sermon.
Point 4 (As I remember it. I didn’t take notes.) We worship God in the spirit, we do our thing as Christians and don’t try to affect, nor worry about the world around us.
This is new to me. I don’t know how much I agree with that. But it’s something to think about.
There is nothing in Scripture that says we are supposed to change the world. We are to be salt and light. But we are not tasked with changing the world.
Re: Discussions yesterday. Post-millenialists think the Church will cause the millennium.
But there is no indication in the Bible that we are to affect the non-Christian world.
After the conversion of Constantine, Christianity became tolerated then it became dominant. Then the rulers became subject to the Pope, though they often hated each other. Bear with me, I don’t have time no space to elaborate. But the point is, when religion became dominant, the dark ages came upon Europe. Then, with the Reformation, the opposing sides warred. As Phos pointed out, The Treaty of Westphalia separated the political and religious. That is, neither affected the other. (Though we know that was never completely true.)
The result of that turned out good for religion and government. (Parallel observation. It is sharia that drags Islam down. But sharia is an essential part of their religion.)
I read a book years ago. I think it was Chuck Colson, but I don’t even remember that. It was How Now, Should We Live? Salt and Light. We see our culture falling into chaos. What can we do about it?
That theory is that we do nothing about it. We do our bit as followers of Christ and pray that the world will follow.
The idea is that Blue Laws, (foe example) are not scriptural. Nor any other laws that are made from a religious standpoint.
There are some laws that are made from non-religious, purely humanitarian values. Abortion, for example.
Re defining marriage is a cultural thing.
But not religious laws.
I’m still pondering how this affects me
Just something to think about.
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Chas, that 4th point sounds Libertarianish. I too will think about that…
As to my position on the Second Coming, I am solidly on the fence!
I want Christians to go to heaven before Tribulation. (Pre Trib)
I think Christians will go to Heaven after the first part of the 7 years of the Tribulation. (Mid Trib)
I don’t want Christians to go through the second part of the 7 years of the Tribulation. (Post Trib)
I don’t think the Tribulation is over and we are living in the Millennium. (Post Mil)
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’d say a clearer way to say it (than it is the “church”) the post-mil position is that God is bringing about the culmination of history through the means of spreading the gospel, if that helps clarify. This happens not by an imposition of laws, but it happens from the bottom up as the gospel permeates, which is reflected on the larger stage as a matter of course.
Our laws, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the nation and era, are to reflect God’s moral law.
As the gospel is shared throughout the world, its influence spreads, resulting in a benefit to society as a whole — ending slavery, caring for the poor, protecting children.
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The author of a book I’m reading (“Thriving in Babylon,” Larry Osborne), had this to say about end times and the study of the book of Daniel:
“As a pastor, I’m regularly asked by folks in my congregation to explain how Daniel’s visions and other biblical end-times prophecies fit together. They want me to tell them exactly what each symbol means and how everything will play out. They want names, places and pseicfic dates on the calendar.
“Now I could guess. I could speculate. Many of my predecessors an peers have done so. But something gives me pause. No matter how confidently they have asserted their theories and ideas, they’ve all been wrong. Dead wrong. If you haven’t noticed, there’s not much of a market for old prophecy books.
“That’s because for 2,000 years, brilliant and godly Bible scholars have carefully studied Scripture and come up with theories and predictions that made a ton of sense at the time but now seem laughable. Some go back centuries. Some can be traced back a millennium or more. Some are rather recent. But they all have one thing in common. With the passage of time, their carefully researched ‘facts’ have turned out to be wild speculation.
“That’s why I quit making end-times predictions. I’ve quit trying to explain what I don’t understand. I know Jesus is coming back. On that I am quite certain. But as to exactly when and how he will work out all the nitty-gritty details, I’m a bit foggy. …”
“I’m simply saying that we need to be careful when we make prophetic predictions because whenever we turn the bulk of our attention to deciphering the obscure, we tend to miss the obvious. …”
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God’s up to something. Something good, very good. He’s working, working, working it all out. For our good, for his glory.
We just haven’t been granted a clear view of the details leading up to it all. 🙂
But everyone will know it when it happens, amen?
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Frances Schaffer wrote the book, Chas.
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Schaeffer wrote a similar book. Colson and Pearcy wrote one that took up the ideas in a later period.
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That is Pearcey.
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I thought that was it. I looked through my library but couldn’t find it.
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Francis Schaeffer wrote How Should We Then Live, & Chuck Colson & Nancy Pearcey wrote How Now Shall We Live (1999).
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Chas, so what was his scriptural backup for the point that “We … don’t try to affect” the world around us ?
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