Good morning.
What’s on your mind today?
Me? Two Words.
Pumpkin Pie
🙂
Quote of the Day
“I don’t want to spend my life not having good food going into my pie hole. That hole was made for pies.”
Paula Deen
Wandering Views
4 out of 5 dentists recommend this WordPress.com site
Wandering Views 
Not much on my mind today, except
It’s Friday! You know what that means.
Actually, not much today. Lions and Y ares the only things on the schedule.
That’s good. 🙂
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Ricky, I’m not “enjoying” the D’Souza book.
But it’s interesting. I’ll report on it.
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I believe the fact that D’Souza was born in India to Christian parents, lived there for 17 tears and then has lived in America for the rest of his life gives him a unique perspective. He has experienced Christianity, both here and in a developing country. He also grew up around Muslims as well as adherents to other religions.
Uh oh, I almost got too political on the wrong thread.
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Tomorrow deer season opens in Wisconsin for those using firearms. This will be my first year that I won’t join the throng and it’s a little amusing to see, from the non-participant’s view, how worked up people get over it.
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Chas knows what Friday means, do you?
Photoguy- Yeah, I’ve hearing the gunshots since last weekend when it opened in Missouri. Today is the first day in Illinois, so the school where I teach has no classes, just a teacher workday. It used to be a school day, but the administration finally gave in since so many students and teachers took the day off for hunting. It’s almost a religion in these rural parts.
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Photoguy, many years ago my Thanksgiving meal was timed around my ex-brother-in-law and how soon he could make it to the hunting camp after dinner for deer season to open the following day.
I am off today to hear Ben Kenny who is a #4 realtor in the US and is great at lead generation. I will have to drive into the big, bad, city of Mobile (that is pronounced Mow, like you mow your lawn and and Beale, like Beale Street. It is NOT pronounce Mo- bIle like the bile you had to swallow when you voted)
I laughed yesterday with Cal that having a background in education is really helping me deal with the 10 agents on the team, the only problem is I didn’t major in EARLY childhood education. I’ll swanny it is like dragging some of these ADULTS uphill by my teeth to get them to do something. How hard is it to tell someone I need you to put it on your calendar to meet with me for 4 hours on November 29th. We will have a team meeting after that and call night following that???? Oh, he wiggled and squirmed, and fought the idea of having to meet with me. He was in business for himself for many years and that was just too long, blah, blah, blah… If he had to do that he would have to leave Fairhope at 9 am and he wouldn’t get back until about 7 pm. By that time I had had enough and informed him I left Fairhope EVERY day at 7:30am and didn’t get home until 6:15PM!!!! Every day! No sympathy here, Bud.
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Luckily the next agent I called to schedule and appointment with asked if she could meet with me that afternoon, she was showing property at the beach and it would be really convenient for her. Sure, come on over when you are done!
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Oh, and did I mention the last agent used to be a policewoman? I haven’t been on a firing range since before my father died. I asked her if she would take me. It is a little intimidating to walk out there as the the “lone woman”. She was thrilled to be asked! See? Win/Win for both of us!
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Good Morning, Y’all!
Kim – Many a dinner at my wife’s grandmother’s house had to be delayed in Conecuh county as well…
Do love my Pumpkin Pie, AJ…one of the best parts of the season!
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Oh yeah, Pumpkin Pie Season! Or Chrissy’s Pumpkin Bread, also very, very yummy.
I often call Forrest my “Punkinpie” (yup, it’s one word).
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My schedule today includes figuring out how to print 550 Christmas cards at work using the data base–not labels. Anyone here have any ideas beyond highlighting each name individually and clicking “print?”
BTW–it took me an hour to sign my name 550 times–or about nine signatures a minute.
My hands have hurt ever since . . .
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Christmas card ENVELOPES.
And we’re all be sipping Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Lattes at work during the staff meeting to celebrate two books on the best seller’s list this week. 🙂
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Peter L: I agree that deer hunting is such a cultural event in these rural areas that it rivals religion. When I was young it was possible for hunting aged kids to miss school in the days leading up to Thanksgiving because it was known that they were with their dads trying to fill the freezer for winter. New teachers who weren’t raised in rural areas had to scratch their heads in wonder when seeing the impact that deer hunting had on their class sizes. (Farm kids were given open excuses to miss school during harvest seasons as well).
Deer season always starts the Saturday before Thanksgiving and many a Thanksgiving dinner was/is timed around the the time that hunters come in of the woods.
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Oh, we hear gunshots where I live sometimes, too. But we don’t have any official hunting season.
We’re getting some much needed rain through the last days of this week (Thursday-Saturday). Muddy paw prints to deal with in the house, but otherwise I love it.
I pulled the Saturday shift this week, but that means I’ll get Monday off.
Kim, did you ever get your last check from Guy you Work(ed) With?
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I received an email from Family Christian stores today, letting me know that they have partnered with a group of Christian businessmen and from now on 100% of their profits will be donated to Christian causes, specifically those aiding widows and orphans. How wonderful is it that there are still businessmen who think this way?
I shop at a nearby store regularly, in fact I was already headed there after lunch with GalPal today, I need to get a Birthday gift and card for daughter [another 1962 gift from God].
If there’s no store in your area, but you’d like to support their mission, here’s there website: http://www.familychristian.com/
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:27 (NIV)
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Michelle,
I left another response to your post yesterday about less hours/more time at home with family on the Daily Thread after conversing with my wife. She is the brains of this operation. She showed me the errors in my first response. She’s always right. That annoys me sometimes. But then I realize where I’d be without her wise council, and the mess I’d have if I just did it my way, and I get over it pretty quick. I’m lucky to have her.
🙂
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I saw it, AJ, but it was late. I wrote an answer and then deleted it.
I just think we live in such interesting times. We beg God for mercy and we complain when he gives us something that doesn’t fit our concept of what we wanted and yet turns out to be the best for it.
I’m not saying cutting back the working hours in America is a good idea, but it’s helpful to turn the prism on our lives and try to see things from a different angle.
It seems to me that in our crazy, fast-paced lives something of family life is getting squeezed out in the hurry of trying to pay for a life. This, obviously, is for middle and upper class families. I, frankly, can’t imagine how the people I know who live on minimum wage could survive on only 29 hours a week without moving in with their families.
Which may be why God has not seen fit to have us sell our house. Who knows? But if I trust him and believe he is in control, I need to accept what comes my way with eyes and heart open to what else he might be doing with my circumstances.
No matter how inconvenient.
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Good morning/afternoon, all. Pumpkin pie…mmm…I’m going to have to look for a gluten-free recipe for that. I’ve done without pumpkin pie these last 4 years since being GF, but you’ve got me craving it now, AJ, with that “Pumpkin Pie” typed in orange print above! 🙂
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Ok ya’ll…Hostess is going out of business…Karen and Lee are in my prayers…
….I must admit….when I truly NEED a junk food junket..it is Lay’s potato chips and Hostess chocolate cupcakes….I’m done in I tell you…I’m just done in!
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Pumpkin pie is okay but I prefer sweet potato.
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Photoguy. I ordered the receiver for my AK47 today. I am going to build my own. It should be fun. I already have a Hi-Point 9mm that is so much fun to shoot. I go out to a public free range to shoot. The land is a state game preserve so to shoot at the range you have to have a hunting license. 25.00 a year beats out a membership for 200 a year. A buddy of mine here got a deer during black powder season. He is bringing me some summer sausage made with venison. Yummy.
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Michelle, when are you and your hubby coming out here to Oklahoma for a visit?
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6 Arrows – How about just making the Pumpkin Pie filling without the crust?
NancyJill – Lee left Hostess several months ago, due to the urging of the Holy Spirit to take another opportunity that came along. That job is ending soon, though. He does have some other possible opportunities we’re praying about, including perhaps buying a route, or “jumping” (filling in for vacations & such) for others at Bimbo (pronounced Beembo – it’s a Mexican company). Either way, he is an IO (Independent Operator), & we have to find our own health insurance, which is insanely expensive.
Thank you for your concern. 🙂
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Karen O,
Even better! That’s one of my favorite ways to eat it, in a bowl with whipped cream. Real whipped cream, not cool whip.
Mmmmmmm…….
I need a drooling smiley.
🙂
And I hope you don’t mind, but I’m adding you and your hubby to the prayer thread.
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We have had venison twice in the past week, thanks to the girls.
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Venison…eww. Oops, sorry. I mean “No thank you”. 🙂
The only time I’ve had it was one time when I was pregnant with 1st Arrow. The smell of it cooking was too much for me, and I’ve never been able to be around the stuff anymore.
Let’s change the subject back to pumpkin pie…
😉
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drivesguy: You must be quite skilled to be able to build your own rifles. I always liked black powder season the best because there were so few other hunters in the woods.
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Karen, thanks for the suggestion, but me and grains…ah, gotta have ’em! I’m hooked — I need that crust!
AJ, I’m with you — real whipped cream tops Cool Whip any day!
Good news: I found a recipe for Pumpkin Chiffon Pie in a book I have in my kitchen, The Gluten-Free Gourmet Makes Dessert. And several recipes in it for making homemade GF pie crusts.
I should actually look through my recipe books once in a while…there are all sorts of things there I don’t know I have. 😉
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Now I’m hungry! Venison: Mmm! Pumpkin pie made with real pumpkin: Mmm! The same with canned pumpkin: Mmm! Either with real whipped cream: Mmm! With Cool Whip: Mmm! With vanilla ice cream: Mmm! Next Thursday can’t come soon enough! But I guess I’ll have to settle for turkey instead of venison.
And occasionally Mrs L makes pumpkin pie without a crust. It’s good that way too!
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This morning, as I was driving to a bible study at my church, a car came up suddenly behind me on the two-lane highway on which we were traveling. It was a 55-mph zone, and I was going about 57, but the driver had absolutely no patience with staying behind me, and abruptly steered into the oncoming lane to pass me — on double yellow lines just below the crest of a hill. Neither of us could see if there were any cars coming from the other direction, and there was no shoulder to get onto to avert an accident if there was oncoming traffic.
By the grace of God, no one was coming from the other direction, and the person who passed me sped on ahead. About two miles later, although the person was a ways ahead of me, I could still see her vehicle as I got to a 45-mph zone, then a 25-, and finally a 15- zone approaching an elementary school. And do you know, that woman who had passed me turned into the school parking lot, and it was then that I saw little children in that vehicle.
I was aghast that someone could be so reckless with children in the car. And if that driver had stayed behind me, even the whole two miles, she would have gotten to the school about 5 seconds later.
What in the world are people thinking? 😦
Now, this afternoon, thinking about it, I just realized that my son could have been coming home from work and been coming up the other side of that very hill right about the time that lady was passing me, if his schedule had not changed. He was supposed to get off work at 8:00 am, and under normal circumstances would have been very close to that hill about the time I was on it getting passed, but for some reason, he got home from work about a half hour earlier than would be expected. I’m going to have to ask him about that when he wakes up.
Wow. God’s providence and mercy. I’m in absolute awe.
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I’m having computer trouble here at home with the connection going off and on. We use CLEAR as the provider. I don’t know what is going on. It is discouraging me from spending much time on the computer.
My brother keeps seeing flocks of turkeys in his neighborhood. They are wild and can fly over the fence into his yard. He majored in poultry science and at one point learned how to catch and wring a chicken (sorry, animal rights people). He says the wild turkeys would be too tough so we will not have one of those for Thanksgiving. He just feels funny going to the store when he has so many in the yard. But then there is that old saying, “A bird in the bag is worth two in the bush.”
Bring on the pumpkin pie. I did make a pumpkin pudding recipe before that uses whipping cream. It is really good and similar to a crustless pie. My son prefers the crust, though. I am looking for that recipe and can’t seem to find my little booklet in which I found it.
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Well Karen, I’m glad to hear Lee isn’t in the thick of it at Hostess….I’ll be praying for you nonetheless concerning his current job…we are living in tenuous times…lifting one another up in prayer is a good thing…a very good thing… 🙂
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I had a great day today. I will tell you all about it tomorrow. Then I came home and found a package at the front door. I’ll tell you all about it tomorrow. For now I am off to read cards.
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Oklahoma? Are you talking to me or Mrs. Obama? 🙂
We weren’t planning a trip. Does this have something to do with your automatic weapons?
🙂
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😦 I’m not going to sleep tonight for wondering what’s in Kim’s package.
Read cards????????????????????????
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Late QoD: What is in Kim’s package?
(No, I don’t know). Somebody else can guess first.
🙂
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I was starting to feel unpopular because I have posted several things on Facebook and no one commented. I had my privacy settings where NO ONE could see my page.
There was a sweet card from Chas and Elvera in my package.
There was also a silver ladle. 😉
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Was Chas’ card made of chocolate or some other candy? After all, it said it was a “sweet card”.
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There were lots of sweet cards. I was surprised there was even one from NJL! I loved reading what all you wrote. Several of you told me you were sending my “present” to Phos. Thank You!
Someone even said that all of you consider me your best friend! That made me smile. There was even a little bottle of wedding bubbles to blow.
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Kim – Due to personal & home distractions – & a bad memory to boot – I did not get out a card to go in your package. 😦
But I want you to know that I love you & am happy for you. May God bless your marriage abundantly!
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Kim- Did you get the e-card I sent by way of Michelle? I didn’t have your email address.
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Well gee whiz….I didn’t know there was such a card/gift sending…I somehow missed that…don’t know anyone’s address, hardly anyone’s email…I’m kind of on the outside looking in…but, Kim….many blessings to you and your new fella ( I do see some posts of yours on FB, but, updates and such do not show up on my ‘feed” often…blessings 🙂
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Nancyjill,
That’s what I was thinking. How do you guys always know each other’s addresses and emails and Facebook pages and all? I’m so clueless! But that’s really sweet that you guys did that!
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Kim — My apologies that I did not get a card out, either. I wish you love and blessings on your marriage. 🙂
BTW, after you got married and changed your avatar to a picture of the two of you, I was trying to figure out why your husband looked familiar. I figured it out about a week and a half ago when I was sitting in church. We go to a pretty large church, and before the service started, I saw a man and his wife and their two daughters walk toward the front of the sanctuary and take a seat. I remembered seeing that family before a few times, but it was on that day it dawned on me, ‘That guy looks just like Kim’s husband!’ 🙂
I don’t think they have the same last name as you and your husband, though, otherwise I would think he was a twin to your husband, or at least a brother. The resemblance is incredible. They say everybody’s got a twin somewhere. You can tell your husband he does too — if he doesn’t already know that. 😉
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Peter it was received.
Don’t feel like you have to apologize for not sending a card. I got all your best wishes.
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Some ways I have connected by e-mail with others here have been: with Cheryl who use to have her e=mail on the World Mag Regulars bio section; with Michelle when she was published in The Log Cabin Christmas book and I wanted to connect so she could send me an autographed bookplate so we managed that through her website: and MIM when he had a picture to show of one of his workshop creations and I believe he posted his e-mail on the blog. So I am assuming others have connected in similar ways. I am not on Facebook so e-mail is the only option except for maybe Google Friend. I don’t really know much about Google Friend but I am on there. I joined that so I could follow a few authors of Christian fiction.
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Before I resume my three part discussion with Ree – about Roger Williams, G. K. Chesterton, and C. S. Lewis – I will comment about a comment from 6 Arrow at 6:09 pm. She mentions a reckless driver: This morning, as I was driving to a bible study at my church, a car came up suddenly behind me on the two-lane highway on which we were traveling. It was a 55-mph zone, and I was going about 57, but the driver had absolutely no patience with staying behind me, and abruptly steered into the oncoming lane to pass me — on double yellow lines just below the crest of a hill. Neither of us could see if there were any cars coming from the other direction, and there was no shoulder to get onto to avert an accident if there was oncoming traffic.
By the grace of God, no one was coming from the other direction, and the person who passed me sped on ahead. . . . Then she discusses how if her son’s schedule had been more typical he might have been endangered by the reckless drive. She finishes: Wow. God’s providence and mercy. I’m in absolute awe.
I am very glad that Six Arrows was not injured. I am very glad that her son was not injured. I am glad that the errant river and the children in her car were not injured.
After saying that, I will say that this is a vivid example of why it is so difficult to have a serious discussion with many Christians. People get injured and killed all the time in traffic accidents. Some of the victims are believing Christians. So. If there is no accident, it is God’s providence and mercy. If there is an accident, and people are injured and killed, it is God’s will and presumably the victims are in a happier place we call Heaven.
For example, from today’s news: http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/20103059/4-killed-in-5-car-crash-in-berkeley-county .
It’s a news article about the accident (in South Carolina). Here is a little of the article:
The Berkeley County Coroner’s Office has identified four people killed during a 5-vehicle wreck in Berkeley County Wednesday night.
Coroner Bill Salisbury identified the victims 55-year-old Edith Jackson, 45-year-old Angie Arthur, and 51-year-old Melvira Johnson. Jackson and Arthur are from Georgetown, and Johnson is from Loris, according to Salisbury.
Salisbury said several vehicles from The Lighthouse of Jesus Christ Church were traveling south on Highway 17A near Freefall Lane, just two miles south of Jamestown, around 7:30 p.m. when they collided with a northbound vehicle, driven by 36-year-old Steven Morse, of Jamestown, who was also pronounced dead at the scene.
Salisbury said the Georgetown trio killed in the wreck died from thermal burns sustained after their SUV burst into flames. Morse died from body trauma, according to Salisbury.
This incident is horrible. How is this an example of God’s providence and mercy?
I guess whatever happens, no matter how wonderful or how horrible, is evidence of how wonderful God is? This does not strike me as serious propositions about reality and life.
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If any of you want to get in touch with me it is either on Facebook or you can get my email from Michelle, Cheryl, or Donna. I am sure more of you have it, but I know those three have reached out to others and have my email.
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We are on the count down to grand child. Mr. P is SO excited.
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I thought it was Google Friend, but it appears it is now Google +.
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Stephen,
Read the book of Job. We don’t believe that God is good because bad things happen. We believe in God’s goodness because we experience it. When bad things happen, we trust that, in His sovereignty, He works good out of evil.
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OK, I am looking at Chapter 1 of the Roger Williams book by John M. Barry: Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul The chapter sets the stage by talking about the battles in England between Catholics and Protestants. Barry states the English reformation begins with John Wycliff translating the Bible into English [in the late 1300s].A couple of hundred years latter, Henry VIII, for very profound [sarcasm] religious reasons moved England closer toward Protestantism. [Seeking a son, he began divorcing and killing wives. In the process Henry declared himself head of the Church of England.]
Barry says, “But this English church superimposed a theology based on such Calvinist principles as predestination on a largely Catholic structure. From its beginning then, English Protestantism contained within itself tensions identical to those which would ignite the righteous slaughters of religious war on the European continent.”
Henry’s daughter Mary became Queen, and married Philip (later King of Spain). Mary was a Catholic and tried to return England to Catholicism. In “a reign of only five years, Mary burned three hundred Protestants at the stake.”
After Mary’s natural death, Elizabeth I became queen and turned England Protestant again. Amidst considerable intrigue and conflict, Elizabeth sought to suppress and control Catholicism through a secret service and rewards, though her efforts wee as much intended to protect her reign as to persecute Catholics for practicing their religious belief. Even so, “During Elizabeth’s reign several hundred Catholics were executed; many more died in prison.” Probably my understanding of Christianity is less sophisticated than yours. However, the viciousness and bloodthirstiness of these times horrifies me, and quite a lot of the violence and persecution seems to have been done in the name of Christ. Oh, my.
After Elizabeth’s death, Jame I came to the throne. He tried to ease conflict between Catholics and Protestants, but conflict continued, highlighted by the notorious “Gunpowder Plot”Catholics with links to Spain tried to blow up the King and Parliament. Edward Coke, one of the greatest lawyers and judges in English history, and one of Roger Williams’ earliest mentors, prosecuted the traitors, “who received the standard sentence of being hung, drawn, and quartered. [Traitors of high ranks were beheaded.] The sentence expressed the utter horror of the society toward rebellion and the brutality of the time. Each man was dragged to the scaffold over a hurdle with his head forced ‘downward, and lying so near the ground’ [dragging head through foul sewage] ‘as may be thought unfit to take the benefit of the common Air; For which he shall be Strangled, being hanged by the Neck between Heaven and Earth, as deemed unworthy of both, or either . . . . Then he is to be cut down alive and have his Privy parts cut off and burnt before his face, as being unworthily begotten, and unfit to any generation generation after him.’ Still alive, ‘His bowels and inlayed parts taken out and burnt, who inwardly had conceived in his heart such horrible Treason. After to have his head cut off, which had imagined the mischief. And lastly, his body to be quartered and the quarters to be set up in some high and eminent place, to the view and destestation of men, and to become prey to the Fouls of the air.’”
This is horrible stuff. This horrible stuff was done by people who called themselves Christians. If Christianity has done quite a bit to get people to behave better (as I think most of you believe), it sure took a long time for it to get around to the job.
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If you click on my name you go to my website–where you can reach me through the contacts page.
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Ree writes:
Read the book of Job. We don’t believe that God is good because bad things happen. We believe in God’s goodness because we experience it. When bad things happen, we trust that, in His sovereignty, He works good out of evil.
Most of the Bible strikes me as absurd. Probably the two most absurd parts are the book of Job and Revelation.
As far as Job goes. We suffer. We suffer for no reason. So there must a reason and the reason must be a good one. We can’t find any evidence of it, so it must be true. I guess this makes sense to you. It makes no sense to me. And it’s not just me.
Atheists (sensibly in my opinion) tend to foam at the mouth when Christians trot out the Book of Job. I had a hard time finding a calm enough atheist quote to post here. Here is one of the calmer ones:
The Book of Job has been a thorn in my side for years. Now that I’m secular, I am dumbfounded that Christians either haven’t read the whole thing or make excuses for their deity’s awful behavior. Even as an allegory (their other standard excuse) it totally sucks —-.
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Well, well, we Christians have definitely been remiss. All of these years and we have never mentioned to poor Random that many will claim to be Christians, but we are known by our fruit. If our fruit is helping the orphans and widows, loving our neighbors, etc, you can think we might well be Christians. If our fruit is murdering others, you can be fairly certain we are not. God is quite clear on that. By our fruits they will know us. He is also clear that many will appear before Him, claiming to be His and He will say He never knew them. Now that I have explained all of this, again, that should help.
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And another we forgot to mention. God created and it was good. We blew it and the world has been suffering ever since. Death, sickness, corruption, etc. Sin is here and the world suffers. Sometimes Christians die horribly, sometimes they die peacefully. Same as everybody else. We expect to die. It comes with being a living being in a fallen world. We thank God for the good, we thank Him for the bad and the good He will bring from it. Sometimes we do it well, sometimes not so much.
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That’s not the message of Job. The blessing for Christians is we do not suffer for no purpose– ultimately we have a hope in the resurrection and eternal life.
It’s those who do not follow Jesus who live in a world without purpose.
The book of Job is about coming to terms with the Creator of the Universe– we do not worship an idol formed by our own hands. We worship a God who created everything out of nothing for His good purposes, and gave us the free will to accept His gifts or reject Him.
I tell people reading the Bible to start with the thorny gospel of John where you read about the Creator of the Universe walking planet Earth and confounding the wise who should have known better, to offer forgiveness to those trapped in sin.
Job and Revelation are books better read by those with a healthy working knowledge of Scripture and the Word Himself.
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And as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God.
Job 19:25,26
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Thank you again to several people who have “explained things” that make no sense to me once again. Again, the problem is that we (human beings) all share the same physical world and make decisions and take actions that affect each other. These decisions are difficult. If you attempt to persuade me that you are correct in something you advocate based on something that clearly strikes me as not existing and not based on reality, I am quite likely to be in opposition to you. As will many other people.
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Except, my dear Random, it doesn’t make us wrong. 😉 None of us here can persuade you of the existence of God, of His sovereignty, or of His will. Only the Holy Spirit can do that (although he can/does use human means to accomplish that).
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Cameryn, you know I love you, but as with all the other comments, what you said makes no sense. I hope your little girl is fine.
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What doesn’t make sense to you about Cameryn’s reply. It’s one thing to say that you don’t believe it, but I don’t know what doesn’t make sense about it, at least theoretically.
And as far as your other response, it cuts both ways. When you try to persuade us about things that you advocate based on a view of reality that we perceive as false, then we will be in opposition to you. Obviously. And we are in opposition to each other on lots of societal issues. Despite how much you with it could be so, there’s no neutral place from which to stand to decide together on these issues.
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Makes no sense? There is no such thing as God. Something that does not exist as no sovereignty and no will. There is no such thing as the “Holy Spirit.” Talking about these imaginative entities as if they exist when they don’t makes no more sense then talking about elves, fairies, dwarves, dragons, etc.
As far as being in opposition, we are in agreement. We are fortunate that we live in a culture and political system (thanks in great part to Roger Williams) where we decide such conflicts more often by debates and votes and court rulings than we do by violence, murder, torture as they frequently did in the England Williams fled, and as they still do in many parts of today’s world.
It’s a slow process, but the forces of ignorance, superstition, and nonsense are slowly losing. This does not mean that humans will ever be really happy, but we will be less unhappy and suffer less than we did when religious nonsense ruled most of the world.
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In response to your Roger Williams post…
The book starts out with an outline of some basic, common knowledge English history which you abbreviated for us.
These events take place during a time of upheaval in Europe as the Protestant Reformation gets well underway. The context is a well-entrenched Christendom, meaning a society founded established upon predominantly Christian principles and ideals. It doesn’t mean that all, or even necessarily a majority, of individuals were regenerate Christians.
The times were tumultuous because the old order of Roman Catholic hegemony was being rejected and a void was left for a new order of government to be established. Although some of the players were sincere Christians trying to best determine the form of, and to implement, a government rooted in Scriptural truth and ideals, others ran the gamut from mostly well-meaning pragmatists just seeking to establish order, to opportunists seeking to obtain power at any cost. Probably nearly all of them, to one degree or another, held broadly Christian presuppositions and beliefs, but certainly many were not truly Christian in the truest sense of the word.
The conflicts and the resulting violence was political in nature and, as such, it was no different than the political conflict and violence that occurs in all unstable societies. Much of this violence was unjust and offensive in nature. I’m open to the possibility that some of it was perhaps, necessary, just, and defensive, whether the political leaders involved were regenerate Christians or not.
Individuals have been “behaving (immeasurably) better” after their conversions to Christ than prior to, from the beginning. And despite their grievous flaws, Christian-based societies have been, overall, better than pre-Christian ones as well.
But it’s apparent that your own measuring stick is from the standpoint of your personal experience is with a post-Christian society. Your two main problems, though, as I see them, are your myopia that causes you to,
a) fail to recognize how it was, and only could have been, Christianity that led society to the place of relative peace and freedom that you’ve always enjoyed, and
b) fail to see how, as we increasingly let go of Christian ideals and constraints, society has been, and will increasingly be, led back into bondage to the evils you think are behind us.
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Sometimes you say, quite firmly and confidently, that the triune God does not exist. Other times you say that you don’t know whether He exists or not.
But there’s a difference between saying that you disbelieve that the nature of reality is what Christians say it is and saying that the nature of reality we describe “makes no sense.” Whether you believe it’s true or not, there’s no question that it’s a coherent worldview that we espouse.
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When I said above, “…seeking to obtain power at any cost,” I should have said something more like, “seeking to obtain, increase, or hold onto power at any cost.”
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