59 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 11-3-12”

  2. Thank you for your reminder, Chas. I had forgotten.

    I have a few questions for today if anyone has answers I would love to get your thoughts or opinions.

    1. An older friend is having trouble getting a hearing aid that works for her. When we were out in our group she was almost in tears because she could not hear what the rest were saying and she felt left out. Does anyone have any suggestion of brands or types that work best? I have no experience with this, but desire to help her if possible.

    2. The husband of the friend who died will be having her cremated and so far no kind of service is planned. I guess I have never known of anyone who died and there was no service. Perhaps there will be one later and it is not yet in the works, but no mention was made in regards to that. The thought of not having any kind of service is distressing to me. Your thoughts?

    3. When out mowing this week there was a small pile of pinecones and leaves and green pine twigs and needles in my yard. My neighbor approached, and I turned off the mower, and she apologized that her children had been making a salad in my yard. I said I did not know what it was, but I knew it was something, and I was going to leave it alone. I said it was okay, and that it was more important than the lawn which is my true feelings. But it reminded me of when my son was young and I made a big deal about property lines between neighbor’s houses and that he was to stay within our yard. My neighbor was impressed (on the other side) when she overheard me telling my son about that rule. Your thoughts?

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  3. The service I attended last Saturday was a memorial service for a guy who was cremated. I have also attended memorial services for people the family took out of town for burial. There doesn’t have to be a casket available for a memorial service.
    Except for a body, a memorial service is no different from a regular funeral.

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  4. JaniceG,
    I have not known anyone well who has had a loved one die and has not had a service, but I have acquaintances who have done so. I generally assume they are not religious people, and if one does not believe in an afterlife, most of what goes on at the services I am used to would be meaningless. It would surprise me if a Christian who had lost a loved one who was also a Christian chose not to have a service. (If a Christian lost a loved one who was not a Christian that would be a difficult service to have, though I know people who have done it.)

    The only members of my immediate family who have died are my parents, and I was not close to them. The services were important to me mostly as a way to begin defining for myself how I would remember them, and dealing with emotions about them (mostly negative) that I had been unable to deal with effectively while I still felt an obligation to try to improve our relationship.

    I did not know my mother-in-law well (they lived on the other side of the country, and we saw them once every other year at Christmas, and she died of cancer less than 8 years after I met my husband). So I felt a bit of an outsider at her funeral, even though I was family. I did not get to attend my father-in-law’s funeral, although I had gotten to know him better when he moved in with us, because it was held where he died, and I couldn’t afford to go out there. (We couldn’t really “afford” for my husband to go either, but of course we spent the money for hm to go anyway.)

    Today I am singing (a duet with my husband) at a funeral for someone from our church. I barely knew her, though I recognize her from her picture in the paper as one of the elderly ladies I sometimes saw at church. My husband is leading the service, of course, and as always it is planned based on what the family wants.

    Most families want a service, but everyone deals with grief differently. I can see why having a bunch of people (many of whom you don’t know well and some of whom you may not even like) all coming and saying how terrible it is, how they’re thinking about you, etc. might not be what a bereaved person finds helpful.

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  5. I had a Christian co-worker who lost her father, and he was cremated, no service. What bothered my friend was that at the time our workplace gave “time off” based on how far away the funeral was, how much you were involved in the planning, and so forth, so they only gave her half a day since there was no funeral. (Later they changed it to a certain specified number of days, and that was three for a parent or stepparent. So when my stepfather died, even though he hadn’t been a parental figure to me, I got three days off, plus two days for the Thanksgiving holiday, plus the weekend, and was able to be with my mother a full week.)

    A few years later the friend’s mother died, and I heard there was no service in that case either. I never heard “why,” but apparently her parents made that choice.

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  6. I know two people who have had no funeral. One was a relief, since I would not have attended, but would not have wanted to explain to others why I wouldn’t. Why he chose not to, or his family did, I don’t know. I only hope he made his peace with God.

    The second was an aunt. Again, I have no idea why she or her family chose to do that. She did not attend church, to my knowledge. Her husband did; as did the children when they were younger. They are all grown now, so perhaps no longer do so.

    Some people hate funerals. I know people who have refused to attend any. Those people might leave instructions for no funeral for themselves. Others may want to save the family any costs associated for a funeral. Some may not want to put others through the hardship of attending, since they always viewed funerals in that light.

    I have learned new things about people at their services. Funerals can give solace to the family and a way to share with others your own feelings. It is one way to ‘grieve with those who grieve”. It can open us up to new understanding of those left behind; their own role in the family as well as family dynamics we haven’t seen before.

    We transmit to the next generations much of what we believe about death and the afterlife in funeral services. It gives us a more structured setting to approach those left behind.

    We also model the grieving process during these services. We show children that they can get through these grievous things; that being brave isn’t just for spectacular events, but the everyday events that take courage. We model grace and sensitivity for them to the hurting. We can do some of these things without a service, of course, but a service can help focus us in doing it.

    Finally, I think a service of some kind, acknowledges that we all leave a void in someone’s life when we leave this earth. I think it acknowleges that everyone is important and for a christian—created in the image of God.

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  7. Janice,
    To answer your first question, your friend needs an appointment with an ENT and then with an audiologist. They can fit her for the right hearing aid and sometimes there are special programs to help with the cost.

    To answer your second question, yes I have heard of someone dying with no service. My ex-mother-in-law had an aunt who had no children and was mean as the day is long so she also had no friends. When she died her body was donated to the local medical school and there was no service.
    My dad was cremated but there was a funeral. My youngest aunt still makes comments that she cannot believe he is gone because there was no body at his funeral.
    I personally hate to go to funerals where it is evident the priest/preacher didn’t know the deceased and stumbles through the eulogy with some garbage the family provided. The same Pastor did my step-sister’s funeral that did my dad’s. It was evident he knew both people and tailored their service just to them. ( I still love the thought of my father and Toni’s father coming to get her and take her to heaven).

    Third question. I was only allowed to play in my own yard so that my mother knew where I was. I was the only child along our street so the neighbors all thought it was fun if I “visited” with them. I learned to drink coffee with Sally when I was in first grade and I learned to garden/landscape from her and her next door neighbor, Jeannie (I also learned that Jeanie would take the time to grate the carrots for carrot salad and they had it for dinner most Thursday nights). As I was sitting here thinking I also thought of Effie, she was a dispatcher for the police department. She and her husband were never able to have children. I would meet her at her car every afternoon at 4:30 when she got home. Her house had a smell to it that just swamped over me. She always had candy!

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  9. Good morning, all. We are learning that it is quite difficult to try to live in a house that is for sale. The agent told us that we would get 24 hours notice when there would be a showing but apparently, in the words of the great Barbosa, that is “just guidelines.” Very much looking forward to moving day, which is scheduled for two weeks from today.

    Last night I took my granddaughter, Emmy, who is 21 months old to a Fall Festival at a church (not our own). She likes to play with my keys, which I let her do as I was strapping her back into her carseat. After I had her secured, I took the keys and threw them on the front seat, closed her door, and walked around to the driver’s door only to discover that she’d locked all the doors with the remote on the keyring. (We are all surprised that you can even do that, but apparently you can in my Accord.) A couple of men from the church were there and kept me company. I called 911 and wonderful firemen and policemen showed up to help me out. They ended up having to jimmy the door to pull the keys out, which somewhat yinged up my door but Emmy laughed through the whole adventure and all’s well that ends well. Her Mom said maybe she learned her lesson, which of course she didn’t because she’s too young to know what she did. Maybe her Mom actually meant that I’d learned mine.

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  10. Thank you for all of your helpful comments. It is good to hear about how others have gone through similar things so it softens the emotions I have been feeling about the lack of a service.

    Kim, we had a couple in our neighborhood who did not have children at home and the woman had previously worked as a nurse. I assume her husband wanted her home after they had their only child, a son. She would have some of us children in to put together jigsaw puzzles or to make some wonderful crafts. Once she did a bonfire so we could roast marshmallows and tell ghost stories. After the couple moved down to Florida, when my friend and I were in our last years at high school, we flew down to see them. It was my first flight. Their son lived down there and we got to ride around the block on his motorcycle. We kept in touch for a number of years and my husband and I even went to see her one time. Neighbors can be really special in the lives of children.

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  12. LShaffer, was there another remote that could unlock the car?
    My wife and I each have a remote for both the truck and car.
    I haven’t tried this, but I understand that if you lock your remote/key inside a car, you can call home on your cell phone. Have someone press the remote close to the phone while you hold the phone close to the door and it will open.
    I need to test that. But I have a keypad on the car, so I don’t really need it. I would on the Ranger.
    But I have this policy of never getting out of the car with it buzzing at me.

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  14. I am a Christian but would prefer no service in memorial to me. As a rather private person, I am not interested in being the center of attention now or later. However, funerals are important for closure so I would not mind if my family and close friends got together at the cemetery and saw to my disposal. Though I would prefer to be buried in the backyard and it can be done but then people have to remember it is a burial site forever and that causes legal problems.

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  15. Hasn’t Random frequently said that he and his wife have both requested no service when they die? I suppose if both the deceased and the family of the deceased are all atheists, this isn’t unusual.

    But Pauline is right about the Christian holding a service for the non-Christian family member being difficult and disturbing. My next door neighbor is a Christian who was married to a non-Christian. He died suddenly of a heart attack at age 50 and it seems to me that she pretty much settled on a kind of agnostic, but optimistic, universalism as consolation. I attended the service at my church, and this was the vibe I got from the service as well as from my conversations with her later on.

    Obviously, I pray for the salvation of my own family members all the time, but I can’t say that it hasn’t occurred to me what it will be like, and what I’ll do, if I lose them and they’re still outside the faith–particularly my husband and children. I’ve already lost my parents with only a thread of hope that they might possibly be saved, as well as a sister for whom I have virtually no hope. It’s tough.

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  16. As a Christian, I couldn’t care less if there was a funeral for me, but I think a funeral can be a witness to non-believers and I hope that mine would be one. Going to a funeral where the person was not a believer is very hard, while a believer’s funeral can share a hope that an unbelieving attender may realize they want and need.

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  17. Since most of the recent funerals I’ve attended are of Baptist friends, most of the funerals have an evangelistic element. i.e. “We know where Charlie is, be sure you know that you can join him.”

    Mumsee, re: “burial site forever”. Our house is in a recently developed area. The man who owned the property did not build on a site at the front of the development because there are some Revolutionary War era graves there. They don’t know exactly where, but he knows they are there. He gave that portion of the development back to the original owners. It would be nice if they would make a park there, but it’s just growing wild.

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  18. The law now is that you have to make a right of way for family for the rest of time so that does not happen, even though it does.

    Another reason for me not to have a service, is it seems so sad for people to have a funeral and only one or two people show up. It makes them seem more alone in their grief.

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  19. Mumsee, that *is* sad. The mother of a former piano student of mine told me that when her mother died, no one (other than family, I presume) came to her mother’s memorial service, and it saddened her tremendously.

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  20. It happened to my mother in law. She lived in Florida, died in Arizona, and wanted to be buried in Boise (five hours from here). Her husband, sons and wives, daughter, some grandchildren, and my brother were there. That was it.

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  21. Mumsee, a person’s life is not indicated by the number of people at his funeral.
    If I had died in Virginia, many people from various walks of life would likely have attended.
    Today, my SS class and Lions would attend, but if I had died soon after I arrived here, it would just have been family.
    And as you grow older, you have outlived many of your friends and colleagues.

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  22. I had forgotten about this, but I did go to a gathering of friends and family put together by the ex-wife for her ex-husband who was not married when he died. He was the father of the woman’s children. He had been cremated, and some rose or other flower bushes were to be planted, and I think some of his ashes were to be scattered there. It was a pleasant gathering and not really a service but just a time of remembrance and support for the family. That was quite satisfactory for someone who was not a believer or who had gotten off track. The rest of the family ties still went to church.

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  23. I’m noticing more people requesting no service. It’s probably due to all the reasons mentioned above. And while I used to hate funerals (and I still frankly just don’t “like” them), they are an important way to say goodbye.

    I had an aunt die, however — she’d not been very active for a long time — and there were only her 2 grandkids and one of her sons who attended (along with me). It was really sad, I have to say.

    Not sure if she was saved, either. I helped look after her in her last years as her immediate family wasn’t geographically close. She was one who always said she’d come to church with me someday, but never did. I brought a Bible over for her at one point — but when the granddaughters found it among her things after she’d died, they freaked out, they thought she’d maybe gone off the deep end on them! 🙂

    I asked her once about their family’s church background and she said they’d quit the Methodist church they attended when her kids were growing up because a new minister came in and it became all about getting out of Vietnam or something. Back in the ’60s, this was, of course. I suggested maybe they should have/could have looked for another church but she just shrugged, they were content to leave it behind.

    No experience with hearing aids (yet! — after those rock concerts from my youth, I’m probably a prime future customer!). But a couple in church I know have some new very small ones, they’re quite unobtrusive.

    It’s probably trickier than eyeglasses, though; maybe she just needs to go through more testing to find what’s right for her.

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  25. This is LSHAFFER, let I forget to say so at the end.

    Chas, I can’t find anything that says “change.” There is a login box just below where I’m typing but I’m not sure how to log in. Do we have the same password here that we had on WMB or do we register for a separate one here? Before I got my new laptop, it knew who I was but now it doesn’t.

    About last night. First, hubby does have the other remote, however, he was bowling and didn’t have it with him. To make matters worse, we had a last-minute request to show the house yesterday and Son did a blow-through to clean up and hid everything and didn’t remember where he’d put Dad’s key to my car.

    Thing is, though, I’m really stumped now about what happened. I went out this morning and tested it and you cannot lock the car with the remote if a door is open. So how, in this sequence of events, did the car end up locked? Locked it to go into the event, unlocked it with the remote after the event, opened back door on the passenger’s side, strapped baby into the car seat, threw keys on the front seat, closed the door.

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  26. oh, and our pastor went down from here to perform the service, which I thought was very thoughtful. Yes, mother in law was buried where nobody knew here or the family. They had lived there for a few years but many many years ago.

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  27. As far as being known on here, mine has a little box below which says “fill in your details below or click an icon to log in”. I put my email in the first, mumsee in the second and here I am. I have to do it when I change computers.

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  29. LSchaffer, do you see a link/option below your comment box as you’re typing for WordPress (a little w in a blue circle) — click on that to log into your WordPress.com account .

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  30. And when I’m not logged in and don’t want to bother with that (say if I’m commenting on my phone), there usually is (I think, as Mumsee says) some kind of place where you can fill in info … ??

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  31. Mumsee, my mom only had family at her service. The only one there who wasn’t one of her offspring (children, daughters-in-law, or grandchildren) was the father of one of my sisters-in-law (my sister-in-law, Mom’s daughter-in-law). So he wasn’t exactly family, but family of family. The reality was that she had outlived most of her friends, and the few she had left either lived far away or didn’t get out much. So we weren’t hurt by it; it was just life. At any rate there are enough of us that it was a decent-sized but intimate gathering.

    My husband doesn’t believe in funerals including eulogies; he wants it to be the opportunity for a gospel sermon, without undue focus on the deceased. So he won’t have a eulogy, and if I die first I won’t. (I don’t care either way.)

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  33. LShaffer, I found that inconvenient when my house was listed for sale–I was planning a wedding and a move, my job was from my home, and I own a large and furry dog. They told me I’d have at least an hour notice, and usually I did. So I figured I needed to keep my home within half an hour of “ready to exit.” Then I needed only to wash any few dishes that were unclean, vacuum quickly, remove the dog dishes from the kitchen, change out the towels I used for white ones, and take Misten with me and leave the house.

    One time my husband-to-be and I were meeting in another town for premarital counseling with my pastor. We had driven separately because of traffic backups when he tried to come to get me. I got a call just as we finished breakfast that some realtor wanted to show my house “between 9:30 and 10:30” or something like that. I looked at my watch and it was 9:30. I said no way, not before 11:00! I had to drive home (at least half an hour away) and quickly do a spot-clean, collect Misten, and then drop Misten off at one friend’s house and meet my fiance at another friend’s house (that friend was hosting us for lunch, but her cat beats up dogs and so I couldn’t take Misten with me). It was definitely not the most restful way to spend a day with one’s beloved. Another time he and I had to change lunch plans and make it a picnic so we could take Misten along. And then there was the time the people came half an hour early and parked behind my car in the driveway, so my only choice was to sneak out the back door with Misten on a leash and take her for a walk. (The people were just entering the front door, so we waved at each other as I came down the driveway.) I learned to leave the house 20 minutes before the early time in the range, but that time they came earlier still.

    I’m glad those days are over.

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  34. When my mother died it was the day after Christmas. I was so touched by the service which still had the nativity scene set up in the front near my mother’s casket. Baby Jesus was peacefully lying in his manger, and my mother’s body was lying peacefully in the casket next to the symbol of the promise for her eternal life. It was really sweet and such a comfort to me. The pastor spoke about Anna who was 84 and held baby Jesus. My mother’s first name was Annie although she was known by most as Louise except for in assisted living.

    My father arranged for a family plot near their home which my brother now lives in. My father did not go with the larger family cemetary in south Georgia where his family is buried. So that means both sets of our son’s grandparents are buried in adjoining counties which is convenient if he ever decides to be one to put flowers on gravesites. My brother always does that in our family.

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  35. At my mother’s service, there was only one person who was not either family or church staff/volunteers who were conducting the service and doing the luncheon. (She did not attend the same church as my father but they had apparently long ago agreed that her service would be there and her ashes would be buried in their memorial garden, since she had no church of her own anymore.)

    I had no idea who the one woman was, until after the service I talked with her and discovered it was my high school French teacher. My mother had sent her a letter thanking her for getting me to read Man’s Search for Meaning (I have no idea what that had to do with French class, I didn’t even remember it was because of her I had read the bo0k). Mrs. Fiederlein was so impressed that a parent would write to her for that reason, that she always remembered her, and decades later when she saw the obituary decided she had to attend the service.

    At the time I figured the lack of other people was because my mother had been such a difficult person to get along with, and because she had become so reclusive in the last years before she went into the nursing home. She had always loved talking to people, but became so afraid of rejection that she would not call anyone on the phone, lest they not answer and she might think they were not answering because they knew who was calling. She knew that was irrational but couldn’t get past that fear.

    Now that I think back, I know that, as difficult as she was, there were people who had cared about her anyway. (My father above all, but he had died a couple of years earlier.) The ones I know of, though, were mostly her age or older, and many of them probably were either in nursing homes themselves or had already died. The few who were younger had physical, mental, and/or emotional problems (when I was growing up I wished my parents could have “normal” friends) that limited their ability to be involved socially , and probably lost contact with her by the time she entered the nursing home.

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  36. Based on AJ’s quote, apparently I’m excluded from the human race. I know that I’m an average driver, at best. For example, I’ve been known to stop at a stop sign, space out, and wait for it to “change” so I can go.

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  37. My MIL is in the process of dying of lung cancer. 😦 She is a Christian Scientist, but a poor one (as she not only allows medical intervention, she is insisting on all sorts of it!)

    We were not planning on having a funeral. It would just be my family, my SIL & BIL, and — maybe — a few neighbors, but my SIL & BIL are atheists, and I think that is the main reason. They have no church relationship, and seem to have a downright aversion to pastors of any sort. (They keep sending the hospital chaplain away, and are barely nice about it. My MIL concurs when they do this.)

    My husband is torn up. Not so much about his mother dying, but that we’re pretty sure that she isn’t really a Believer. We both know people who have poor theology but who still seem regenerate … but his mother is not one of them. 😦

    He also feels guilty, as if he is personally responsible for trying to help convert her. However, as much as she thinks of him in some ways, my MIL treats him in others as if my DH is still 3 years old. And, she will never, ever listen to him on this kind of thing. (Is that a cop out? We both don’t know. He has tried talking about it a little and she just shuts him out. It is SO hard with family, particularly stubborn as they come family.)

    My MIL has still not really accepted that she is dying. She grabs onto any thread of hope that she can live longer, and even had to be talked out of the YEAR she authorized to be on life-support! (She’s moved it down to a month. SIGH)

    We know that she fears death, because she has no hope.

    It’s very stressful here. Your prayers that the Holy Spirit would see fit to soften her heart would be gratefully accepted.

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  38. Good Saturday all…
    I had breakfast with a friend today…the Buddhist friend…we had the most amazing time together and the Lord was present…She shared with me some of her deepest hurts and angst she holds towards Christians…our conversation was honest and raw…I do believe the Lord is beginning a work..and I am excited to see it unfold..

    When Daddy died, Mom and I were looking at caskets…there was one “for rent”! I gasped and asked how in the world could they “rent” a casket…it was for those who had been cremated…the director told me family’s sometime choose to place the ashes in a coffin for the service….then take the ashes home or bury them later..

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  40. Tammy, how hard. I was trying to witness to a Christian Scientist (mostly by family ties but it was all she knew and she periodically attended the services and made much use of their tapes and practitioners). It’s a tough nut to crack.

    What a strange religion that really is, and pernicious as well — since they take traditional biblical language and doctrines and then completely re-define them in their own way that is absolutely not biblical.

    So you can literally be talking the “same” language with them but mean completely and entirely different things. It’s a very hard religion to “unlearn.”

    I feel for your husband — I’m thinking, however, that while not a reformed believer yourself, you know that it is only by God’s call that any are saved. While we are responsible to share the gospel and witness to unbelievers (which you both clearly have done), in the end, it is God’s call.

    All we can do is be faithful. But then also to trust in the Lord, and to find comfort and take hope in any (even small, subtle) expression of faith they may wind up providing us before their death. Prayers for you all. 😦

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  42. Cheryl, Our challenge is that the realtor insists that nothing “personal” should be visible so we need to “sanitize” the house before a showing. And you can’t throw stuff in a closet because 1) they look in there and 2) it makes the closets cluttered and supposedly gives the impression that there’s limited closet space. So we have a lot of our stuff packed up already and either in the garage or at the new house. We did just get a call that the people who looked yesterday want to come back and look again tomorrow so I’m hoping that’s good news.

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  43. Tammy…I will be praying for you and your husband…and of course for your MIL…what a difficult situation…however, we do remember that our Lord is her Creator…He created her innermost being and He loves her more than we could possibly fathom….I trust He hears our heart’s cry of intercession….

    Linda…I am praying that couple will place a contract on the house! How well I recall our Realtor telling us to remove all evidence of our existence from the house! We had to rent a storage shed for our “personal” items…we had to edit dishes, linens, ottomans had to go…occasional tables were removed…but, I had a collection of antique wooden baby shoe forms lined up on the shelf in the foyer…our Realtor told us to leave them because it was eye catching…the couple who purchased our home was young and this was their first home…and they wanted to begin a family…..it was the first thing they saw when they entered the home…they were sold! The home was only on the market 3 days!

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  44. We had a murder/suicide last night in our town. Just learned that it was the niece & boyfriend of a couple I know from the dog park. 😦

    Back to the MIL, sometimes I think those horrible long illnesses are for God’s grace and glory — it surely does give one ample opportunity to ponder one’s fate, although God’s call happens whether we do that or not. But it could be God’s plan in the divine call.

    Those who die unexpectedly — not being believers — are more worrisome for those of us still on this side of heaven, I think. Although God’s call comes in a heartbeat and it is sure and irresistible.

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  45. My father was raised Assembly of God. For most of my life he mocked that religion. It was of the utmost comfort when the Lutheran minister who had taught my father in a Bible study, squeezed my hand and told me not to worry my Daddy was in heaven.

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  46. Donna I am so sorry to hear about the deaths of the young couple…what a heartbreak….
    Amen to God’s call…we never quite know how He is speaking or ministering at the moment of death…When we were enduring the pain of not knowing where our daughter was or if she was even alive during her drug addiction days…He assured me that I could rest in trusting Him with her very last breath taken here…that He created her and He loved her beyond my possible understanding…Trust…that is what He desires….

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  55. It would still coat the inside of the lungs with unsavory stuff. And burn out the cilia. And who knows what else. Anytime one inhales burning stuff, one is inhaling carbon monoxide and a bunch of other things. I am going to tell the offender that he is only to smoke on the front porch, so it is out in the open, and not a danger to the others. But, I would appreciate prayers for wisdom on timing and words. Guess it is time to pop over to the prayer thread.

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