51 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 10-29-12”

  1. Good morning everyone. I trust those of you who are in the Northeast are OK this morning. I know it doesn’t compare but it is a little nippy here in the Sunny South. Amos was kind of frisky this morning during his ablutions. He really doesn’t care for his puppy dog paws to get wet or cold.

    I hope everyone has a great day.

    Like

    Reply

  2. Hi, Kim! Hope you are enjoying married life.

    I was just reading Saturday’s thread and thinking about how many people don’t feel like they really have a friend. I think that is a common problem. I have really good friends- one from college, one that I boarded with after college, and one that I’ve stayed with quite a bit when I am on furlough. One of the common elements in the development of those relationships was living together. Now we can’t just move in with people to make friends with them 🙂 but time together when you are being real is crucial.

    I think every Christian should have one person (another believer of the same sex who is not a family member) that they meet with on a regular basis to be an accountability partner. Those relationships may not start as close friendships, but if you are both committed to helping the other grow and committed to being “real” and honest, then a close friendship can develop. Even if a “friendship” doesn’t really develop, that person does become part of your support system.

    Like

    Reply

  4. I also was thinking and praying about the friend situation, musing on the wise talented people who shared their heart, and it reminded me of something a dear friend observed years ago about one of my brilliant children.

    “You need to pray he finds one friend. That’s all truly bright people need: one friend to confide in.”

    Like

    Reply

  5. I’ve also had very close friends in the past who have either died or are no longer available (moved, married, etc.). And I do miss that intimacy. I have a friend from church I can talk to about most things, and there are another couple of women I probably need to make an effort to become closer to.

    Stay safe in the east, everyone. We do have some fog here this morning (love waking up to the sound of the fog horns in the harbor).

    But our weather is ridiculously calm, sunny (once the fog burns off) and peaceful compared to what you all are facing.

    Meanwhile, I had to laugh at some of our local stories focusing on how many flights are being canceled … that would have flown into LAX.

    It’s ALL about us, don’t you know. 🙂

    Like

    Reply

  6. Ajisuun, I agree with you about making the closest of friends by living with them. That happened with me and my long term friendship with Lisa. We shared an apartment until she got married. She and her husband moved to Montana and then on to California. We have remained in contact all these years. She has been here to see me more than I have been to see her. I have only been to Montana once and California once. She has other friends in Atlanta so she has more reasons than just to see me that bring her back. We have a very supportive friendship, however the politics are pretty much an off limits subject. I am sad that we do not see eye-to-eye on that, and question each others news sources and mental processes. It is not a perfect world so I just have to accept that and enjoy the rest of our friendship. I think sometimes the expectations regarding friendships can become so high and refined that it is easy to shut people out because of a few differences.

    Like

    Reply

  7. For me, it seems times of having good friends and having few friends ebbs and flows according to my situations. Times of transitions always put people in a lonesome stage. I never moved from my birth town, but my friends all moved away after high school. I left work friends when I became a SAHM and felt really out of sync for a while. Then after making friends in the church preschool/kindergarten world my son was in we dropped out of that for homeschooling. It was a whole new world. Then I was having to drive away from my home area to take care of mom while homeschooling (we called it car schooling for part of the time). That was the most isolating time. There was also the factor of not having any money to do things with friends that was isolating. I felt sad at times because I was in churches, but never seemed to be making Christian friends. Finally I am in a church where I do have some Christian friends, but that came about because of looking for a youth group for our son, and it meant leaving my husband’s church. I am satisfied at the moment with my varied friendships, but I have been at some very lonesome stages in the past.

    Like

    Reply

  8. Good Morning, Y’all!

    I have been blessed with several friends from different stages of my life that I have stayed close to…there is nothing better than a friend that is so comfortable that you can continue a conversation you were having months ago with no glitches…

    Like

    Reply

  10. I just attended the happiest funeral I can remember.
    I hardly knew the guy, but he was a member of our SS class. Ninety years old and had been sick a long time.
    Funerals are often the only times some people get to see each other. Long lost friends and relatives get together again.
    When you’re young, it’s graduations and weddings you attend.
    At our age, it’s funerals.

    Like

    Reply

  11. I don’t have that many friends either. I have some acquaintances but I only have about 7 or 8 people I call close friends. It has taken me all of my life to acquire them.
    When I was younger my (then) husband told me it was because I was attractive and smart and intimidated a lot of people men included. I always thought that because I grew up mostly identifying with my dad that I was more comfortable around men and found them easier to talk to. Men don’t have friends the way women have “girl-friends”.
    Over the past few years I haven’t had a lot of interactions with women on a personal level although I have put some effort into it. Recently I had a situation with a woman on the team. I handled her like I would have a man. I tried to stop her rant and told her this wasn’t a conversation to have with me. After all the dust settled I went to another woman who is higher up the food chain (manager) and asked how to handle it. She advised me to ask the other woman out to lunch or for a glass of wine and “girl talk” with the warning of keep your friends close and your enemies closer- translation: Be nice to the woman but don’t trust her. I think I managed it pretty well.

    My friends mostly aren’t the type that go out to lunch for a regular ladies who lunch date or movie night with the girls. I used to regret and mourn this but over the last few years I have come to accept that this is me. This is the life I live. I am never going to have a friend that runs off to hang out on the beach with me or shop with me etc.

    I think taking some persoanlity tests like the Five Love Languages and a few others (I was amazed at my DISC profile (you can find them at Tony Robbins dot something or other) said about me.) Can really help you to know yourself and your friendship style.

    I wouldn’t trade the close friends I have for a dozen or so of the other type and what is pretty funny is a couple of the people I confide in most are mostly on-line or facebook.

    I know that most of you don’t understand what I mean when I say you have to love yourself first before you can love someone else but I equate it to the oxygen mask in an airplane. They always caution you to put the mask on yourself first before you try to help someone else. This isn’t a selfish act. It is a practical one.

    I also recommend a book called How To Be Your Own Best Friend and another called Safe People (from the Boundaries author). Sometimes we misjudge people and think they are our friends when what they are is a Danger Zone especially designed for us.

    I have given this a lot of thought. I hope it helps.

    Like

    Reply

  12. I got a call from another manager for my present firm. He wants me to go back to Ohio and take over a position that I have now except in Solon, Ohio. Yikes, I just bought a house here in Oklahoma and was planning to have Cindi move here in the Summer. Talk about dazed and confused.

    🙄

    Like

    Reply

  14. Kim, I don’t know that I’d say a person has to “love oneself” first. (I personally don’t like the term; if anything, it’s something we do automatically, sometimes in a healthy way and sometimes in an unhealthy way.) I would say this: that the healthy way to learn how to love is to start by being loved. A healthy child in a happy home doesn’t have to “learn how to love herself”; she simply always knows that she is loved, and she learns to love others in the way she experiences love and has it modelled for her. Our own selfishness hinders our ability to love, as do our own painful life experiences. But knowing the love of others (particularly the love of God) is a much better foundation for healthy love than is loving oneself. (In much the same way that learning real skills and making wise decisions is a better foundation for healthy confidence than any amount of “self-esteem boosting” can ever be! We should be pleased with our actual accomplishments, not with some nebulous sense of “being special.”)

    Like

    Reply

  15. Cheryl, of course you are right to a large degree but there are a lot of people who did not grow up in that secure environment where they always felt safe and secure. We had to gain that safety and security for ourselves. YOU cannot tell me how loved and secure I am. I have to get it for myself.

    I spent a lot of hours and money in therapy figuring this stuff out. Sometimes, for some people knowing God loves them isn’t enough.

    Believe it or not there are still quite a few things about my childhood and my past I haven’t verbally vomited on World Mag or here.

    Like

    Reply

  16. Kim, my point is that one doesn’t “have to” love oneself first (as a conscious, chosen act). In a stable, healthy environment, a child knows he is loved and knows how to love befoe he’s ever even conscious of such things.

    If one hasn’t known such love, then it takes a more conscious effort to learn what love means and learn how to love, but that is the ideal and I would daresay the norm.

    Years ago I watched some sort of made-for-TV movie, and part (probably the main portion, I don’t really recall) had a young counselor who was helping a young child get past a sense of being worthless. If I recall correctly it was a female counselor and a young girl. At any rate, this counselor was encouraging and helpful and sweet. And at some point she said to the child, “You have to learn to love yourself.” I literally yelled at the TV (NOT my usual behavior!): “Don’t tell her that! Tell her ‘I love you.'” It is so much more powerful to love someone than to stand back, at a safe distance, and say, “Love yourself.” We humans really weren’t made to be both subject and object of love at the same time; we were made for love to be a two-way street.

    Like

    Reply

  17. Cheryl, we are crossing paths here. If you have never not loved yourself you cannot get what I am saying. You have obviously never hated a part of yourself. My mother was an alcoholic. I despised the alcoholic. Suddenly you realize you are half of that person. What does that do to you?
    There are young girls who look in the mirror and see themselves as fat and ugly so they take a razor blade and cut themselves everywhere they think they are fat.

    There are women who have never felt completely loved and accepted so they give themselves to any man who will show them the least amount of attention…after all the man SAID he loved her.

    Like

    Reply

  18. It seems without knowledge of God and His kind of love, and the fact that He is love, a person can not really know what true love is. Without knowing Him and understanding that “We love because He loved us first,” our best love seems to be an attitude of “I will take enough for me and I hope there are leftovers to spill over to you according to my interests.” I am not saying there is not a form of love or aspects of love present, but without His involvement and acceptance of Who He is in one’s life it seems to me that the love would lack some dimensions. It would not be a sacrificial kind of love which means going out of one’s way to meet a need one does not have a vested interest in. I interpret what Kim is saying to be “care for oneself” more than “love oneself.” If a person is not taking care of their needs, physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc., then they will be deficient and unable to care for the needs of others in depth.

    Like

    Reply

  19. “Love yourself” is the wrong terminology here. I don’t know where that phrase came from, and I’ve studied some psychology.
    Kim is right, in principle. A person who doesn’t have any feeling of self worth is useless to everyone else because:
    Nobody cares what I think.
    I can’t do anything.
    Everything I do is wrong.
    Everyone is talking about me behind my back.
    I’m no good, just like……….
    ad infinitum

    (I started to post an example, but it became too long and I erased it. You know what I mean.)

    Like

    Reply

  20. Kim, I just e-mailed you.

    As to loving oneself, I once heard it said, and it rings true to me, that there is no such thing as a person who doesn’t love himself. Even a person with “low self-esteem” feels like he deserves to be treated better. Even the one who is so “low” that he kills himself is looking for something better–because he loves himself and thinks he deserves escape.

    I’m not a theologian nor a psychologist; I can’t and won’t argue that that is definitely true. But it does “ring true” to me, and that’s the presupposition I’m coming from. When Jesus said, “Love others as you love yourself,” it was with the assumption that you do love yourself, because every person is born loving himself and seeking his own interests; we may do so wrongly, but doing so in some way is part of our very being. We are the center of the universe in our own minds.

    By the grace of God I had both a very strong sense of sexual morality AND never did someone come along who saw a lonely girl who seemed like easy prey. But I definitely do know what it is to feel desperately lonely, and I’ve spent a good part of my adult life ministering to others who do (children, the elderly).

    Like

    Reply

  21. Oh, and I’ve also known people who were so very desperate for love that they scared away anyway who would in any way attempt to love them. I’ve seen girls who have one relationship after another with a man she thinks will marry her, but she “needs” him so much it’s frightening and he soon runs away. That sort of thing.

    One time one of my roommates had spent some time reading textbooks aloud for a blind college student. (She got paid for doing the reading, or maybe it was a volunteer position, but her reading was recorded on a tape.) That young blind woman apparently didn’t have any true friends, and latched on anxiously to my roommate–and the reason I know this is she would call our house asking for my roommate, and on being told she wasn’t home, she would then proceed to talk to me and refused to accept “I have to go.” I never once met the woman in person, but one time I came home with a very full bladder, and the phone rang as I passed it. Thirty minutes later I was still trying desperately to get off the phone, because the only possible way to do so would have been to hang up on her. Three very firmly worded, “I cannot talk; I’ll have her call you” were simply ignored. I think I finally did hang up on her, which seemed rude, but she was so socially clueless that rudeness was finally the only option one had! She suggested once that she would like to meet me in person some time, and I shot down the possibility immediately–she was too much for me.

    Like

    Reply

  23. It was many years ago, but I remember an incident I overheard in a grocery store. The (presumably) mother said to a young child. “You stop that, you won’t never be nothing”. The guy is likely in prison now. And the mother is saying she did her best.

    Like

    Reply

  24. I don’t particularly like the phrase that “you need to love yourself first,” however I completely understand what Kim is saying.

    I’m not sure that I agree, Cheryl, that everyone really does love themselves, even someone very depressed and/or suicidal. Yes, suicide is a selfish act, but it is also an act of someone who does not see his or her value and who does not love him or herself.

    We all have an ego, and a very complete awareness of ourselves and our needs, but I’m not sure that always translates into “love.”

    I’m wondering what word for “love” that Christ used, because I can see Him saying that we should have that same awareness and care for the needs of our neighbor … an empathy for him or her.

    But, I do think that Cheryl is right that children and people learn about love by being WELL loved (not fake loved) by first, their parents and grandparents, and then by their friends and significant others.

    But, people who’ve never felt that type of unconditional love have a hard time believing in their value, and an even harder time accepting that God values them.

    So, Cheryl is right that the therapist should have said, “I love you!” (if it were true), and that the person who is damaged needs to feel real love. And, we Christians are called to give it!

    But, Kim is also right that some people need to learn their innate value and to feel a love and care for themselves that they did not learn (or learned incompletely) growing up.

    Like

    Reply

  25. I’m reading with interest this discussion on friendship the last few days. I can relate to a lot of what you all have said on the subject.

    I was quite shy as a girl, not making friends easily, and did not really come out of my shell, so to speak, until high school, at which time I made a few good friends who were in Orchestra with me. We’ve lost touch with each other, however, including my best friend from the group, who was in my wedding and I in hers.

    I’m not so much the quiet, lonely girl I once was, but I’d still consider myself introverted. I tend not to say much when in the physical presence of a group of people; it takes a while for me to process what people are saying, and I frequently miss the gist of their meaning. My auditory processing skills and comprehension are weak.

    Since getting online last year, though, I’ve gotten more confident communicating with the written word more often. I’m not as afraid of putting my ideas out there, even though there may be many more people reading them than there would be listening to them if I were speaking. I can take my time reading (and re-reading, if necessary) people’s comments, and use as much time as I need to write my own responses, without anyone knowing how long it took for me to get my thoughts together.

    (And, no, I’m not telling you how long it’s taken to compose this comment so far!) 😉

    Having said all that, though (and gotten rather off-topic), I still have a hard time not listening to that voice in my head that says, “You idiot, what did you say that for?”, or “You should have said…” or things like that. 😦

    What does this have to do with friendship? I just think that most people don’t seek me out as a friend because they think I’m boring if I don’t say much, or an annoying idiot if I do (especially when I get going on hot-button topics, which I sometimes can’t resist), because I don’t express myself well. The saying “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt” comes to mind.

    I don’t know why I have these thoughts. I grew up in a pretty loving home, and nobody, in my recollection, family or otherwise, has ever called me boring or an annoying idiot or anything like that, verbally or in writing (other than the occasional teasing and such that typically happen in school). Overall, though, I never felt unloved.

    Maybe negative thoughts like that come from having heard (and, sadly, on my part, having participated in) negative talk behind other people’s backs. It’s naive to assume that it’s only other people who are being secretly disparaged, and not oneself. Wherever my negative thoughts came from, I tend to think that surely those many smart, articulate people out there must have figured out by now that I’m not one of them and don’t have any need to seek me out for friendship or anything else.

    Is it my own thinking that leads me to behave in a way that repels people? I don’t know. There are people, and certainly God Himself, who truly do love me. Why does that not seem like enough some days?

    Anyway…I’m rambling. Friendship is an interesting topic. There are so many layers to the subject, so many ways people’s unique characteristics and life experiences come together to meld relationships. It really is a blessing from God that we can form human bonds with one another, even when they may not exactly take the form or quantity that we might be looking for.

    Like

    Reply

  26. Kim – Excuse me, but I chuckled a bit at your saying that you “only” have 7 or 8 people you call close friends. That’s a lot of close friends! (At least, to me.)

    6 Arrows – I understand your feelings. I’ve been that way at times, less so as I grow older, though.

    Like

    Reply

  29. 6 Arrows, when I was out with a group of friends when I was a high school senior one of the girls said, “Janice, you are so boring.” She said it sort of jokingly, but it hurt. I still remember that after all these years, so I go into a conversation with a stranger expecting them to think of me as boring. Often I am slow to test the waters. I guess by posting in this format I realize that if someone is not interested in what I write they can pass over it, and I don’t ever hear, “You are so boring.” That friend probably has no recollection of having said that. Some words shouldn’t be taken to heart, but when people are vulnerable it seems certain things that are heard are pasted into our souls as if with super glue. We need to always realize that God’s words carry more weight than the words of people.

    Like

    Reply

  30. I too, have been reading this discussion with interest. I have one very close friend (although she lives 2 provinces away) who became my friend after another acquaintance of both of us suggested we get together. My best friend is gorgeous, petite, talented etc. I found her intimidating. She had mentioned to this acquaintance that I intimidated her. Long story short, we met for coffee, shared how we both felt and just opened up to each other. I learned stuff about her that not many knew (she was clinically depressed and sometimes suicidal), she wasn’t the confident young woman that I saw from a distance. She learned that I was quite insecure and had no close friends. She has since overcome her depression and we still talk often on the phone sharing things we only share with each other or our husbands.

    I am still looking for a reasonably close friend up here (we moved about 1 year ago) but am not desperate because I know I have my best friend even though she’s far away.

    Friends are very important to me and I am learning to put myself out there and take a chance 🙂

    Like

    Reply

  31. Janice, I agree with you — words directed at us can stay with us for a very long time, for better or worse. But you are right that what God’s words are to us carry more weight than people’s words. It is not the opinions of people that define us, but who we are in Christ is what matters.

    Like

    Reply

  32. Good point about putting yourself out there and taking a chance with friendship, Kare. I think with any good thing in life, we need to do something, make some effort to get what we desire, not with a covetous attitude, of course, but also not with an attitude of simply waiting for whatever we want to just plop into our laps without exerting any effort or taking some sort of risk (real or perceived) to get it.

    I hope that made sense — rather a long second sentence there. 😉

    Like

    Reply

  35. My sentiments exactly, Kare. You are a delightful presence on this blog, as are many others, and a real-life meet-and-greet would be so nice, as some have already experienced here. In the meanwhile, I enjoy the electronic camaraderie we share. 🙂

    Like

    Reply

  36. My husband belongs to a Christian support group for those in his line of work. They have an email system set up where they share prayer requests and most of them send cards out to those who are being prayed for. When my FIL was ill and dying, he received cards from across the US and Canada saying they were praying for him.

    A few years ago, one of the guys set up a get together and it’s become an annual event for them. Unfortunately they seem to get together when it’s a busy time for my husband, but one day we hope to meet them all down in Tennessee.

    Like

    Reply

  37. aren, three of the seven I communicate with on FB. We all got together this summer for the first time since high school. I had seen G and I am R’s daughter’s godmother, but all four of us hadn’t been in the same room since 11th grade.

    Aunt Leesee and I have been friends for 20 years now. We don’t always see each other and she only lives a mile from me but she is a best friend for certain areas of my life.

    M and I have raised our girls together and she and her husband are among my best friends. They have been the kind I could call in the afternoon and say I really didn’t want to face another night alone and she would tell me to come on over and toss my name in the “dinner pot”.

    S & D I only met 7 or so years ago. They are about 12 years older than I am but we instantly became friends. (Funny since they were at a low point in their marriage and D thought I was her husband’s “girlfriend” when we first met). They have seen me through some of the lowest points in my life. D even brushed my father’s teeth when he was in the hospital and had just choked on his food—while I huddled in a corner, a simpering mess, wondering how I was going to live without him. The night of his funeral I ran away to their house rather than be alone. It was the night I feared most of my life. You see, in my memory my mother was sober for her own father’s funeral but she got drunk that night and I never saw her sober again.

    It has taken me a lifetime to collect these people and they are “best friends” in different areas of my life.

    Then, of course, there are some of you here. One person as been something of a financial advisor the past few years. One has been my father figure, one has been something of a mother to me. One has “called me on the carpet” a few times and challenged me to be a better version of me. One has shared some of their deepest sorrow and asked my advice. One has been fun to know and has made me laugh. One has inspired me. One has encouraged me. What are those, if not friends?

    Like

    Reply

  38. Kim – I don’t doubt that you have made some very good friends. From what I’ve read from you over the years, I think you have a personality that attracts people to you, & that you are a good friend in return.

    It was the use of the word “only” that made me chuckle. 🙂

    Like

    Reply

  39. Good Morning everyone…I am praying all on the east coast have been protected and out of harms way…good to see you Karen!
    As I have read over the posts concerning friendships, I find myself relating to many thoughts shared. I have been blessed with many friendships over the years, and while I have been mostly introverted, the older I get, the more comfortable I am with how I was created to be…I do find the courage to break out of my “comfort zone” more and more
    I will say I have found most on this site very warm and endearing..there are a couple on here who tend to intimidate me greatly….I tend not to post when they are posting…I’m funny that way 🙂

    Like

    Reply

  42. We are beginning to get some diagnoses on three of the children. It helps to explain some of the behaviors, though does not excuse it. We have lots of things to deal with such as fetal alcohol syndrome, autism, asperger’s, mental retardation, bi polar, phonological, etc etc etc…should keep us busy. But wait, we already knew that.

    Like

    Reply

  45. Mumsee, are you talking about AJ? If so, he set up a site.
    If you’re talking about Obama, he’s personing the commend center. He learned a lesson from the Benghazi fiasco.

    Like

    Reply

  47. Thanks, Chas, I was asking about our leader. You know, the one who leads by example? The real. He has gone into the far beyond to get us started for the day.

    Like

    Reply

  48. Mumsee @11:27 am. Are you familiar with the companies Great Ideas for Teaching and Different Roads to Learning? The former has lots of resources for speech-language pathology and related communication disorders, and the latter offers products and advice helpful for parents and professionals working with children on the autism spectrum. Some of the resources are more geared to professionals, but I’ve found good products from both companies that work well in the home with parents using the resources with their children.

    Find out more at greatideasforteachingDOTcom and difflearnDOTcom.

    Like

    Reply

  49. Thanks Six Arrows, I will look into them. They recommend six year old get back into speech therapy (we took him out when we took him out of head start due to the negative things he was learning and the time investment for him). But that will require a three hour to four hour block (an hour or an hour and a half each way). And one of our keys to success has been the absolute consistency for him and for a couple of others. We have to weigh the pros and cons. But, if we could get speech therapy at home, that would be ideal. We have three who need it. Thanks for the direction.

    Like

    Reply

  50. You’re welcome, Mumsee. And thank you for everything you and Idaho Mike are doing for all your children. You’re an inspiration to me.

    Like

    Reply

  51. Testing:

    A friend of mine mentioned a remarkable election sermon on the intrinsic evil involved with yhis election and American culture in general

    I have not heard a more powerful and moving sermon that is just as valid for we evangelicals as it is for Catholics. It is well worth twenty-two minutes of one’s time.

    Like

    Reply

Leave a reply to Karen O Cancel reply