105 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 10-13-12”

  2. Oh happy Saturday everyone! A nice crisp day here. Lots of shopping to do for the party tomorrow! Wading through more stuff! In unpacking some of Mr. P’s stuff he has an antique punch bowl and all the matching cups! (How many men would have saved those and dragged them up and down the east coast and Cuba?) I think it will be special to bring that into the party tomorrow.

    Just so you can all “join in” and because you know how I love to plan a menu here is the run down

    Chicken Curry Dip, Marinated Shrimp, Cheese Straws, Veggie Tray (this is marinated/cooked mushrooms, carrots, celery, olives, and deviled eggs). Then Aunt Leesee made my favorite cake. You know the one that is really a coconut cake with Lane cake filling? It’s white and it tastes really good so why waste money on a “wedding cake” no one will eat?

    Off to shop for all the components! Have a good day everyone!

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  3. With my job I talk to people from all over the country about real estate. What I am hearing right now is everyone waiting until after the elections to decide if they are going to make any purchase. The medical field is in a fizz. doctors are retiring or not spending any money. People in other areas of the medical field (sales of medical equipment, etc) are terrified that they are going to lose their jobs and have to cash in savings. Retirees are unsettled. It is across the board from Washington State to Washington, DC.
    It makes me wonder exactly who is being polled, because I haven’t spoken to anyone excited about Obamacare and a second term.

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  4. The polls are a MSM wish list.

    Save some of that coconut cake for me.

    Today I have to prepare the SS lesson for tomorrow, I’m teaching. It’s on the Virgin Birth and Incarnation. Easy subjects for me, but it still takes a long time to get thoughts together.
    Then, I need to cut grass when it dries.
    Then, South Carolina plays LSU tonight. LSU is favored.
    Doesn’t seem like much, but at my age, a full schecule. (except the game)

    After the party Kim, if any is left over, send a virtual mushroom and slice of cake over.

    🙂

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  5. I saw several Obama signs in N. Va. Can’t recall any Romney signs. I’m surprised at the extent that WMAL has gone conservative. Not only Rush, but the local morning drivetime is a conservative talkshow. When I was there, before Clinton, the local conservative voice was David Gergen.

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  6. David Gergen? Conservative? Really? I can’t remember hardly anyone as head-over-heels for Obama as he was in ’08.

    Mmmm, coconut cake.

    Housing prices are (slowly and in very small increments) rising for the first time out here in the LA region. It’s not enough to give people their lost equity back. But it’s enough so that prices are being kept just barely out of the range of first-time home buyers.

    And the housing stock is very low, few people are selling unless they absolutely have to. So for-sale houses are almost all getting competing bids now.

    Chas’ mention of cutting the grass reminds me of a dream I had last night. I was in the backyard and suddenly realized I had this lush, bright green lawn after the little bit of rain we had the other day.

    (Just looked. It was definitely just a dream.)

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  7. My son’s Boy Scout troop is going on a campout this weekend. I initially said he could go, but then we realized that it was an hour away, too far for me to do the usual drive to go pick him up Sunday morning to go with us to church. (It’s an hour away in the opposite direction.) And the children are singing this Sunday, the first time under the new schedule, which has them going to Sunday School three weeks a month and staying in the worship service on Communion Sundays. And my son has probably the strongest voice of the whole group, so Dad (also Pastor) felt it was especially important for Al to be there singing.

    He was disappointed yesterday. Today it’s raining (and now I’m hearing thunder). I think he is pretty happy to be indoors now, instead of getting ready for that hike that another Scout told him was going to be so great.

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  8. I think I’ve seen only 1 Romney sticker, maybe a month ago. I am now seeing several Obama stickers, however, but they are just the ones that say 2012 (with the Obama design inside the “0”).

    Interesting because you don’t really see his name on the sticker, just his campaign symbol of the hope/sun rising or the oceans receding — or whatever that picture was supposed to represent.

    Wow, the election is now less than a month away. This is a hard race to predict. If Romney can maintain the momentum he suddenly got from the first debate, he could win. But it is an “if.”

    And if the final vote is extremely close either way, I’m afraid we’ll find ourselves in a nightmare.

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  9. I don’t know how many Obama stickers I’ve seen – I’m never sure if they’re new ones or left on bumpers from 4 years ago. I do see quite a few Obama yard signs. So far I have seen only one Romney yard sign, and no bumper stickers.

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  10. AJ asks, “What’s new with you?”

    Well, the Lord’s mercies are new every morning (Lamentations 3:22-23), a fact I relish when I stop to think about it.

    And this: “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

    Thanks for the question, AJ. I think I’m going to go do a word study on “new” today. 🙂

    Have a good day, all.

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  11. This is a Saturday that looks more like New Year’s Day. This afternoon there are four college football games going on at one time on the four major networks! No telling how many are going to be aired on the cable channels. So, do I watch the Red Waves vs the Mizzou Tigers, of Stanford @ Notre Dame? What about Illinois @ Michigan or Utah at UCLA? I suppose I could surf the channels during ads. Of course the main one will be the Mizzou Tigers hosting Bama. Sorry, Kim, I cannot root for your team today. Or are you the Auburn fan? It gets so confusing.

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  12. I see Peter has a reference to “new” (New Year’s Day).

    I looked up “new” in my concordance, and there are close to 200 references to it in my King James Bible. So that led me to this question:

    QoD: What’s your favorite Bible verse containing “new”?

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  14. Roll Tide!

    I am watching Standford in South Bend and then USC take on the Huskies. My sons will keep me informed of all the rest.

    Of course I watched the US beat Antigua in the 90th minute!!! Whew! in World Cup Qs and started my morning with some good mid-range matches in the English Preimear League.

    Oh and that 9th inning debacle yesterday. Good night Nats.

    I love October!

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  16. I look at an Obama sign every time I glance up from the kitchen sink. I have a proud neighbor, who was my daughter’s fifth grade teacher, across the street. Now that I’m home for awhile, I think I’ll move the geraniums so I can’t see it. 🙂

    On the writer’s retreat put on by my work place with me in the go-fer role, we talked a lot about dreaming big with God. Author Debbie Macomber admonished us to dream big–and not to get tripped up by Christian humility in our dreams.

    Obviously, we want our lives and thus our dreams, to be aligned with God’s plans, but I was a little stumped by this assignment. My prayer partner and I often pray for imagination as we brainstorm solutions to problems.

    What about you?

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  17. What’s your favorite Bible verse containing “new”?

    Jeremiah 3:22-23 (NASB)
    The Lord’s lovingkindnesses indeed never cease,
    For His compassions never fail.
    They are new every morning;
    Great is Your faithfulness.

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  23. Peter, the verse you quoted actually appears in Lamentations 3:22-23. That book, of course, is written by Jeremiah, so that’s probably what you were thinking when you listed the book “Jeremiah” as your reference. 😉

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  26. Good day everyone. I’m watching the Badgers play Purdue, but it’s been much more difficult watching them this year as they are not doing as well as years past.

    I see a pretty even display of political signs between Romney and Obama here in Wisconsin. Since this is considered a swing state it’s uncommon to see a TV commercial that isn’t a campaign ad. I’m definitely looking forward to life after the election and maybe some of the vitriol will dissipate.

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  27. Happy Birthday to your son, Chas! He’s a little older than my husband, who turns 54 in February–4 months from today, actually.

    Re Darby, Mumsee has an update on today’s prayer thread. There were other details on the prayer thread a few days ago, also.

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  28. About voting and being a Democrat.

    It is hard for most people to vote against their Party, family, friends and co-workers.

    It seems to me that there is a natural progression;
    1. vote for your party,
    2. become tired of voting for people in your party who you don’t like and voting for things that you disagree with,
    3. decide you are really an “Independent” and want to vote for “the best candidate,”
    4. recognize that you really do agree with the opposite party,
    5. change your affiliation.

    My sense is that many Democrats now identify as Independents. The majority of those Independents will vote against Obama/Biden.

    I see a landslide. (I keep on rooting for the Los Angeles Rams too!)

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  29. I’ve read seven of the books in the list Michelle links to. But I’ve also read excerpts from ten of the other books. I think all of them are worth having some familiarity with, but you have to really be a scholar to read Calvin’s Institutes except in a very condensed version.

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  30. Vitriol dissipating? Unfortunately, I doubt it will by much. 😦 😦 Especially if the results are close. Remember when people all congratulated the winner (I know I did in ’08, even though I didn’t vote for him) with pledges to carry on in unity as Americans?

    Sadly, that spirit seems so far from our grasp these days. It’s either the beginning of the end or (I hope this is the case) a temporary transitional state into which we’ve slid before we find our way (both back and forward) again.

    Here where I live — in a solid blue working/union port community that’s within a solid blue big city that’s within a solid blue state — it’ll be Obama signs that will predominate. (Actually, though, I’ve seen very few bumper stickers or lawn signs at all, and most of the lawn signs have to do with propositions that are on our November ballot.)

    Sooo. Busy Saturday so far for me — I cleaned out the food cupboard (new space!), scoured the bathtub and hung up a few jackets & sweaters (I have a terrible habit of flinging things onto the living room furniture when I get home). 😦

    Now it’s off to drop a few things off at the Salvation Army collection truck & the dry cleaners. Oh, and stopping in also to the cable place to see if I can’t get some relief on this new bill they’re trying to stick me with. 😦

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  34. Ree,

    I just wanted to tell you that I think you do a wonderful job in your interactions with Random. I love to read your posts to him! 😉

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  35. My son is getting a double degree in theology and philosophy (in the hopes of becoming a professor the likes of C.S. Lewis or Peter Kreeft. 😉 ), and I think he’s read most of those books now.

    Me? Not so much, although I do find theology interesting. Perhaps I’ll work on a few of the books in the list. 🙂

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  36. That’s okay, Peter; feel free to point out any mistake I might make in the future, since there are none in my past. 😉

    You know, the old “I’ve never made a mistake. Once I thought I did, but I was wrong.”

    😆

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  38. I infer, from Mumsee’s post, that Darby is well and is being released from the hospital. Then another fight starts.
    How old is Darby, again?

    Did I say that I’ve read six of those books. None of them are on my “to read” list.

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  39. Thanks for the list Michelle. I have read 12 of the 25. These kinds of things are always difficult things. No George MacDonald? GMH’s poetry, but no Donne, Herbert, Milton or Eliot? Hmmmm?

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  41. Chas, a few weeks ago, Darby was removed from life support with the thought that she would die within a couple of hours. Instead, she regained her ability to cough and swallow. She has since had a feeding tube put in and appears to respond to requests for a movement of various fingers and legs. She appears to follow people with her eyes. It is not known if she is actually doing those things or not. Most of her brain was deprived of oxygen for a long time. She has most of her skull removed and it has not yet been replaced. She has intensive therapy and that is being taught to her bio dad. He plans to take her home on Tuesday. Bio mom does not believe she is ready to be put in that situation nor does she believe bio dad is up to it. Darby has a Medicaid nurse to see to her medical needs at home and several volunteers to help out. It will be difficult.

    The prognosis is deaf and blind and unable to move. But if she is hearing and responding….?

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  45. Fifth Arrow likes to write notes and tape them to various places inside the house when he gets distressed about things.

    For example, when the neighbor dog was hanging out in our yard one day, barking at stuff, my son taped a note to the front door that said, “Quit [quiet]. Do not bark.”

    If a ladybug is flying in the house: “Do not fly”.

    If the toilet won’t stop running, the sign on the bathroom door will be, “Quiet. Do not wreck it.”

    Today he had a difficult time waiting for lunch to be ready. After a number of admonitions from various people to wait, it would soon be ready, he made a sign and taped it to the kitchen wall, which said, “dON’T BE PATiEANt”.

    😀

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  46. Humor, sent by a friend:

    Abbott & Costello Explain the Federal Gov’s Unemployment Numbers

    COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.

    ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It’s 8.3%.

    COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 16.5%.

    COSTELLO: You just said 8.3%.

    ABBOTT: 8.3% Unemployed.

    COSTELLO: Right 8.3% out of work.

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 16.5%.

    COSTELLO: Okay, so it’s 16.5% unemployed.

    ABBOTT: No, that’s 8.3%…

    COSTELLO: WAIT A MINUTE. Is it 8.3% or 16.5%?

    ABBOTT: 8.3% are unemployed. 16.5% are out of work.

    COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.

    ABBOTT: No, you can’t count the “Out of Work” as the unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.

    COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK!!!

    ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.

    COSTELLO: What point?

    ABBOTT: Someone who doesn’t look for work can’t be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn’t be fair.

    COSTELLO: To whom?

    ABBOTT: The unemployed.

    COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.

    ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work. Those who are out of work stopped looking. They gave up. And, if you give up, you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.

    COSTELLO: So if you’re off the unemployment rolls that would count as less unemployment?

    ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!

    COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don’t look for work?

    ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down. That’s how you get to 8.3%. Otherwise it would be 16.5%. You don’t want to read about 16.5% unemployment, do ya?

    COSTELLO: That would be frightening.

    ABBOTT: Absolutely.

    COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means there are two ways to bring down the unemployment number?

    ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.

    COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?

    ABBOTT: Correct.

    COSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a job?

    ABBOTT: Bingo.

    COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.

    ABBOTT: Now you’re thinking like an economist.

    COSTELLO: I don’t even know what I just said!

    ABBOTT: Now you’re thinking like a politician.

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  47. A friend just sent me an email and noted there’s a story in this week’s New York magazine about Lynn Vincent. I can’t read it on line since I have no subscription, but maybe one one of you can?

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  48. Kim, Mumsee’s post tells as much as I know. I just heard it a couple of weeks ago and have made it part of my prayers. I asked for an update, and that was it.
    Sounds like a spunky little kid. I pray for the best for her, whatever that is. Seems like she’s also in the midst of domestic brawls.
    I’ve forgotten how she got hurt, but they expected her to die when they removed life support. She’s still with us. I’ve also forgotten how old she is.

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  49. Darby is fourteen. She was intoxicated and high and playing with “friends” when she was standing on the back bumper of a moving van. Two guys were with her on either side. The driver, who claims to not have known they were there though several people told her to slow down because of them, hit a bump. Darby was thrown seventeen feet and landed on her head on the pavement. The other two stayed on and were not hurt. She had several brain surgeries and had no sign of brain activity, then a little bit. She was then removed from life support.

    She met my girls this summer when she came down to live with her mom for a couple of weeks. We had never met her mom or step dad before. She is a believer and had been quite active in her church. No one else in the family is a believer. She went to church with us the one Sunday she was in the area.

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  50. Say hi to Phos for us when she gets there, Ajisuun.

    Funny Abbot & Costello routine. That’s exactly how this debate sounds right about now!

    I like the idea of posting notes all around the house. I do have a blackboard hanging in the kitchen. Right now it says “But God…” — 🙂

    Successful errand run finished, and I even remembered to buy postage stamps. Dropped off 2 bags of things at the Salvation Army truck; got the wool blanket & comforter to the dry cleaners (though we’re headed up to 88 degrees again next week so I told him “no rush” on those just yet); and I negotiated a reasonable deal (albeit temporary, 6 months) with the cable company that brings my bill down to lower than it even was before.

    I’ll be fussing again in 6 months, though. 😉

    Picked up some things at the drug store & grocery store.

    Poor Darby and her family & friends, that is such a stressful mess all the way around. Interesting, though, how many folks continue to live after life support is removed — but it almost creates more dilemma unless they begin to respond and “come back” fairly soon. As Mumsee said, it’s very hard to know how much is going on, whether they are truly “there” (and just not able to communicate that) or not … 😦 😦

    Our medical advances are so wonderful, but at the same time, they surely also pose very real and new moral predicaments as well.

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  51. Mumsee, I am so sorry for her family and friends. As you all know I have my own 15 year old. I think every parent worries for the safety of their child and them when something does happen to someone you know or care about it just makes you that much more paranoid.
    I have requested prayer several times for a friend whose 16 year old son has leukemia. It just really brings it all in perspective.
    (I think I started worrying about Baby Girl about a week after I found out I was going to have her and I haven’t stopped yet!)

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  52. I once told a guy, “I’ll be glad when Chuck gets grown and out of college so I can stop worrying about him.”
    As I said, he’s 54 today and I still worry.
    Thing is, I think he worries about us also now. But he needn’t worry, we’re ok.
    He’s in Virginia now helping to clear up estate matters for his Mother-in-law.

    I remember now what Mumsee told about Darby being injured.

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  53. You can all laugh at or with me…I had forgotten what it was like to have a husband around watching football. He has had cheese and crackers, home made hot wings, and his team is ahead so he is checking his eyelids for cracks while he waits on his gumbo for dinner. 😉

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  54. Sad about Darby, mumsee. Sad that a young believer gave in to temptation and got “intoxicated and high”, then suffered such an injury.

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  55. Re: the Abbot and Costello routine- There are actually three ways to lower the unemployment rate: the two mentioned, and when someone cannot find work in the 99 weeks of benefits. They are still looking for work, but no longer can collect unemployment benefits.

    Interesting that economists don’t look at the total number of those out of work or working less than full time.

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  59. Comments on Facebook concerning Mizzou vs Alabama (obviously from Mizzou fans):
    “I’m no expert, but I don’t feel we are ready for the SEC.”
    “I hope basketball turns out better.”
    Re- Mizzou scoring on th first play after the lightning delay: “Guess they just needed fewer fans watching in order to score!”
    “Like shooting fish in a barrel–welcome to the SEC MIZZOU :o( ”
    “If they were only playing 2-handed touch, Mizzou might have a chance!”
    And then this exchange:
    “If lightening takes out the whole Alabama team, do we win?”
    “You would think so but somehow I have a feeling we might STILL lose!”
    “I think you are probably right.”

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  63. Okay, it’s probably too late for anyone to read this, but a FB friend got me mad enough to spit nails tonight. (I know her in person too.) She posted a photo of the rescued dog they’ve had for about 2 years asking if anyone wanted her. Why? Well, her kids “fell in love” with a puppy and she doesn’t want two dogs.

    Yeah. That is the reason.

    This is an adorable and lovable dog. I’ve met her a number of times.

    As far as I’m concerned, one takes on a commitment when one takes on a pet. Barring extraordinary circumstances, it is your job to care for your pet for life. Wanting a cuter, younger dog is NOT extraordinary circumstances. This dog was already abandoned once, and my heart just breaks for her.

    And, exactly what does this teach this woman’s kids about commitment? About loyalty? About adoption? Even about their parents’ love for them?

    You should have heard me stomping around the house and yelling about it to my husband. 😦

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  64. I agree Tammy. That sends a terrible message to the kids that commitment is important until something better comes along. It’s a lot like current society’s idea of marriage.

    Our oldest Jack Russell Terrier is nearly completely blind now, but Sophie never complains and follows me around the yard even more closely and determinedly than she did when she had her eyesight. Older or disabled pets take more patience and effort than many people people want to give, but they’re well worth the effort and they can be one of the enriching blessings that we’re gifted with.

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  65. Tammy, I have a niece-in-law who does that sort of thing. She has adopted and then gotten rid of about 4 dogs since her kids were born. Her excuses are usually pretty lame. They peed in the floor. They barked too much. Every time she seems to be surprised that they acted like dogs.

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  66. What? No word from Phos yet? What is she doing…sleeping?

    Tammy, did you mention those things to her? Some people don’t even think about it and maybe you would be opening her eyes. But a lot of folk view them as a piece of furniture to be moved on when it becomes tiresome. I hope you did not hurt anything with the nails.

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  67. One of the saddest things I hear about from people I know at the shelter are owners to “drop off” / relinquish dogs when they get old. 😦 How sad is that? I agree with Photoguy, older pets do require much patience and care. They lose some of their “cuteness” and don’t play. But how sweet it is to be with animal through that time after they’ve given you and your family so much joy and companionship through the years.

    I ‘inherited’ both my mom’s little terrier mixes (one was 12 the other 10) and they lived to be 17 and 16 respectively. The last year or so for both of them was at times hard, but I couldn’t imagine just taking them to some shelter.

    (I still remember walking the last of the 2 to go, Fritz, after I’d then acquired 2 younger/faster dogs also.

    So I’d take the younger dogs first and then I’d come back and take Fritz out by himself because by then he walked so slowly but always wanted to go.

    I’d often take my Tabletalk devotional magazine along and read a little bit along the way — these were morning walks before work in those days.

    We’d slowly ramble down a block or two and then back again. He never got tired of his walks. 🙂 )

    There are sometimes situations where dogs simply do not work out for a family, but those should be rare occurrences. All pets take plenty of breaking-in time and there are always some rough spots along the way that you just need to work through.

    (And how many of us have looked back at the chewed up shoes or books left by a now long-lost beloved dog — and find ourselves smile at the memory.)

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  68. RE: the situation with Darby…

    Mumsee had mentioned there is a page on Facebook updating her progress. It turns out there’s more than one page.

    “Hope for Darby Lopp” is her father’s page. “Prayers Darby Marie Lopp” (notice there is no “for” in there) is her mother’s page (you have to send her a friend request, but she said she will accept all friends, as long as you don’t get negative at her).

    I noticed Prayers Darby… (the mom) had commented on one of Hope for Darby…’s (the dad) posts. When I refreshed to see if there were any additional comments, the dad had deleted the mom’s comments. Made me sad to see this.

    I share this to make the point that we need to pray for that relationship as well, that they will cooperate with each other, for Darby’s sake.

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  69. There is a lot of anger and hate and malice there, and the mom says she is not a believer. We are trying to help her see that the anger is not hurting him so much as it is hurting her and Darby. I don’t know where he is with the Lord and have never met him.

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  70. Oh, and there are apparently several other sites that have nothing to do with Darby, just trying to make money off of the situation. The two you mentioned and the one called Team Darby are apparently legit.

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  71. Well, now that I looked to see the mom’s and can’t find it, I cannot say it is legit. She told me she had one and he had one and Team Darby appears to be working with the dad but what do I know about Facebook?

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  72. I think it was the ‘prayer’ page I found when I was looking last week, but it seems like I also noticed several came up on the search. Very sad that there’s such strife among the family on top of the obvious medical crisis.

    It’s 90 degrees here this afternoon. Seems like just when I get the fall clothes out, the weather all goes haywire again and I’m back in sandals & T-shirts. But the nights are certainly getting colder.

    Well, “colder” relatively speaking, compared to many of the rest of you. 😉

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  73. Older dogs. Our Kitt ran about 8000 miles with my hubby over her years with us. She was always eager to go even when her hips were bothering her and she pretty much slept the rest of the day after the run. She was a large dog (husky, shepherd, black lab cross) and getting up was quite difficult for her. One day my husband simply left the gate open when he left with the younger dog for his run, leaving the choice up to Kitt if she wanted to come along or not. She chose not to, but the whole time hubby was gone she was pacing back and forth in the yard to the gate and back to where she’d see him first as he came home, looking forlorn and quite confused. It just brought tears to my eyes. I could never have given her to a shelter. We were very sad when she died.

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  74. Tammy – I agree with Mumsee that you should say something, bring your friend’s attention to the feelings of the dog.

    Not the same thing, but yesterday I urged a young lady friend to “say something”. C is a waitress, &, giving her his business card, a customer told her she would do great at his company. (She has a very outgoing personality, & isn’t afraid of hard work.)

    He handed her the book (the folder thingy you put your money or charge card in to pay), & told her to keep the change. What was left was only about a 10% tip. Her remark on Facebook was that if he tipped so little (after telling her how “awesome” she was), why would she want to work for his company?

    I told her she should call him & tell him that. She’s the kind of girl who could definitely give him “what for”. 🙂

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  75. It’s a lovely day in Colorado….I had a migraine at church today…frightening when all of a sudden you cannot see the pastor’s face and your vision just blurs…then comes the headache…the guy sitting next to me must have thought I was sleeping through the service…I was just trying to listen and keep what orientation I had left intact!
    I have only read 6 of the books mentioned by Michelle…some of them I had to keep a dictionary close by to look up those “highfalutin'” words used by the author! 🙂
    We have had to put down a couple of dogs due to medical reasons…it was difficult, but, we always went on the advice of our vet.
    Babe, our 10yr old Aussie, has climbed a few 14ers with Paul in her day…she has run hundreds of miles over the years…we now will only get her out for a max of 5 miles at a time…just a couple days a week…she’s moving slower. We dread the day of her last breath…praying the Lord gives us many more blessed years with her..a better dog we will never find 🙂

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  76. I did comment. I commented very carefully, after I thought about it awhile. I didn’t want to express anger, but I did want to draw her attention to the issue. Apparently, she’s removed the whole post from her thread, but I said something on the order of, “Dogs become part of the family … a commitment. I would encourage you to say “no” to the puppy and keep your dog.”

    I had two other people agree with me.

    Then, she responded in a way that made it obvious that she wasn’t very happy with my comment. Something on the order of ‘mind your own business, as this is our choice’ kind of thing.

    But, now, the whole post is missing.

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  77. I wish I’d added that commitment to animals teaches very important life lessons about commitment to others … including future spouses and even commitment to God.

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  78. It is a hard thing to do and one wants to be very careful. Most folk don’t want to hear that you disagree with them on such a difficult decision. See the abortion issue.

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  79. I wouldn’t say a dog is “part of the family,” because it isn’t human. (I don’t like it when someone says I’m Misten’s “mom” unless they’re joking. I have teased my sister that she is Misten’s auntie, but she knows I’m joking!) If dogs are part of the family, then it is morally wrong to give them away if they develop some bad, unbreakable habit you simply cannot cope with (such as killing the chickens or destroying the furniture), or if they come up with a disease or an injury you cannot reasonably afford to treat.

    But I do think that taking in a pet is making a commitment that, to the best of your abilility, you will care for this animal for its lifetime. Obviously that is more important for some animals than for others. A horse might live 30 years and might not be a good match for a family for all of those years; a cat might be more devoted to its house than to its family, and if the new owners of the house fall in love with it, it isn’t irresponsible for the old owners to let them have the cat along with the house. Owners die or become disabled, and sometimes a dog proves to be a really bad match for a family for various reasons. But you don’t give away the animal on a whim!

    I do think it is interesting, though, that for all the breeders making sure those who buy their puppeis understand that it is a “lifetime commitment,” I see breeder websites all the time that indicate that a certain animal is now “retired from breeding” and has gone to a new home. I guess when they say their animals are pets, maybe they don’t really mean it?!

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  80. I think you can make a distinction between saying a dog IS family and saying a dog “is part” of the family, which I think they are. The “family dog” has his or her own little niche in most households; not on par with people, for most of us anyway, but a piece of the family fabric just the same.

    One of the terriers my mom had was a dog I actually adopted for her one Christmas several months after another one of her dogs had died (she was planning to get another dog, just hadn’t gotten to it yet).

    The city shelter was doing an “adopt a dog for Christmas” push (they don’t do those anymore) and I was there covering it for the paper, thinking if I saw a dog that seemed like a good fit I’d maybe get him or her for my mom.

    The shaggy dog I’d had my eye on was taken by the time I went back after work.

    But “Muffin” was being “turned in” to the shelter by a mom and her daughter, so when I decided he’d work for my mom (and I really did feel so sorry for the guy), it was nice to assure them personally that he’d have a great home with my mom (and he did; later, of course, also with me).

    I can’t remember now why they were relinquishing him — I think they just said something to the effect that he hadn’t worked out but was a good dog. But I remember how upset the daughter was, it really was pretty sad. 😦

    And yes, he did have some “issues.” But he was a good dog. 😉

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  81. We got a dog from a shelter once. We kept him a few months, but he simply would not stop chewing on things, and nipping at people. We finally took him to a rescue group, and they told us later that he would never have been a satisfactory pet. Even with other dogs, he refused to accept anyone else as “top dog.”

    Our next dog was wonderful. He had been adopted by a family nearby, and while there were not major problems, he simply did not like the mother. He would lie under the table and refuse to come out for her, though he was fine with the rest of the family (and the other dog). They said they knew he had been abused by a previous owner, though they didn’t know details. Speculation was that the mother in this family reminded the dog in some way of the abusive owner.

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  82. I typically now take dogs first to my vet for a once-over by him — in my less experienced dog owner days, I actually did take one right back to the shelter on his recommendation (I hadn’t even brought him home yet; to be honest, I had some reservations myself — and then he charged & tried to bite the vet who said he also had a skin problem that appeared to be chronic).

    My mom had a shepherd once who wasn’t too keen on men (she wasn’t aggressive with them, just preferred females). You do wonder how some of those things get rooted in animals that come to us “second hand.” Part of the challenge sometimes, but usually issues can be worked out. Not always, though.

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  83. Then again, another Aussie I’d adopted from the south central LA shelter on behalf of the Aussie rescue group was a mess and my vet had reservations about him (I tentatively was thinking on keeping him).

    But he cleaned up very nice and my vet later fell in love with him (he boarded him for a while), said he had a great personality & was a total sweetheart.

    Unfortunately, after I brought him home, it set off a bad clash between my 2 existing dogs at the time, so he wound up going to the rescue group’s 2nd on the list for him and he apparently got a very good home on a ranch just outside of LA.

    He was a blue merle, a gorgeous dog, but he was a matted, filthy mess with runny eyes when the shelter picked him up on the streets. He also needed minor surgery (for inverted eye lashes that were causing the eyes to weep and be irritated) which I’d paid for, but it was done through the Aussie rescue group and they were able to get a much lower price for it than my vet would have charged.

    Have no idea what his story was, but it was gratifying to be part of finding a good new home for him even though I would have loved to have kept him.

    Anyway, you can’t always tell from the start what you’re getting. Sometimes it’s a pleasant surprise.

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  90. Sorry, mumsee. I haven’t seen any bats lately as I haven’t been in a cave since mid September. But if you want, I can mention to AJ that it could be a red vs blue World Series, another Cardinals vs Yankees. The team with the most WS crowns vs the NL team with the most. Many Cardinal fans were hoping for #12 in 2012, but almost didn’t get it when the Cards fell so far behind. Well, here they are in the NLCS, and winning! I guess I can root for the team that plays 150 miles away. But then, I grew up a Yankees’ fan. Oh well. Maybe the Giants will win and have another old-time rivalry. But then, maybe the Tigers will beat the Yanks. Chas wouldn’t like that though, he doesn’t like Tigers.

    So have I driven you batty with the roaming post?

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  92. Cheryl,

    I agree with Donna and stand by the dog being “part of the family.” He’s not my kid, but he has his own special place. And, honestly, barring something extraordinary, I actually do think it is wrong for people to give away their pets. (“Extraordinary could be anything from *severe* mental illness to … well, I don’t know. But, falling in love with a puppy ain’t it!)

    As for cats, it is a mistaken fallacy that non-cat people believe that cats can be more attached to a place than to their family. That simply is not true. Cats will get confused and often head back to their former home if you don’t keep them indoors for awhile to get used to the new place, but cats *never* prefer a place to their people anymore than dogs do.

    We presently have my MIL’s cat, because my MIL is living with my SIL while she fights cancer. My MIL thought the cat would be happier staying in her own home, but she started to go crazy needing company. (She’d practically bowl my husband over when he went to feed her.) So, she is now very happily living with us.

    I’ve had a cat pine for my oldest when he went off to college, and a cat when I was young who would cry for me all week when I was gone to camp.

    Any cat person knows that cats — despite what they may pretend — need their people every bit as much as dogs, and can never be “left with a house” because they are more attached to it. 😦

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  93. I really do understand, especially when first “trying out” a dog or cat to see if it will fit into your household, that it may not work out. At that point, the dog is not attached to you, and you are not yet really attached to him/her. So, it is okay to say, “This isn’t working out.”

    But, to have had the dog over two years, and simply decide that you would rather have a puppy?? Bleh.

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  94. Or, people who move and decide that they’ll just destroy the dog they have and get another in the new place they move to.

    Believe me … it’s done. I had a childhood friend who did that to her dogs. They didn’t even try to find them new homes.

    When I’ve moved, my animals came with me!

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  95. I guess that I just figure that it’s a commitment. Good or ill. Sickness or health. You do your best to fulfill the commitment you make to a pet. And, I think that teaches kids something about their commitments in more important areas too.

    Does a pet (unlike a human) have to occasionally be put to sleep? Certainly. But, I’ve spent a lot of money on my pets and given up other “luxuries” to do it when they’ve been ill. If it is within my power, and it is reasonable and likely to work, then I feel it is my duty. I made the commitment. No one held a gun to my head to make it. So, I owe what I can reasonably do to keep the pet happy, healthy, and with me.

    Of course, what is “reasonable” is not always going to be exactly the same for each family. I’m generally very understanding of that. But, some areas just aren’t “grey” to me. You don’t dump a lovely little dog, because your kids want a puppy. 😦

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  96. And, of course, I suppose that I ought to at least give this family points for trying to find the dog a new home, rather than just dumping her off at the pound. 😦

    I would say that, when “extraordinary” happens, it is definitely the owner’s responsibility to find a good new home for the pet. Just dumping it off and hoping that it won’t be put to sleep is not responsible.

    (Barring, of course, an animal that is severely ill, injured, or mental … in which case it is then still the owner’s responsibility to respectfully and kindly have the animal humanely euthanized. Dumping is never okay.)

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  98. I had to have a dog (“Mercy,” an Aussie-shepherd mix, a stray I’d found) put down when she developed a severe dog aggression that seemingly could not be broken (against my other household dog).

    It broke my heart — and my vet said he hardly EVER recommended putting a dog down for behavioral issues — but in this case is was a situation that could not be solved (the vet said even giving her to an only-dog household still held the risk of aggression).

    But that’s an exception, it’s rare. Most behavioral conditions can be dealt with.

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  101. I had a dog, an Airedale, who decided biting the neighbor child would be a good thing. He did not accomplish the goal. He also was very aggressive toward any dog outside the home. We decided to put him down and took him to the vet. They said they would hold him for a couple of days. We changed our minds and he lived another fourteen years without major incident.

    Another we put down after she bit one of our children and a couple of our dogs and the vet said it would only get worse due to her breed. Sad time.

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  102. I asked my wife if G is a religious believer. My wife became very angry at me.

    We are about to head out on our rail trip across Canada and back across the United States of America. G is a friend of my wife’s who will house sit for us while we are gone. My wife chose her because G once raised chickens, so my wife guesses she will take care of our five hens well. I am contentious and speak my mind most of the time, even if I am hanging out around people who think quite differently than I do, though I will probably draw the line with arguing with an angry person with a weapon in his or her hand. (None of you have weapons trained on me at a distance you can use them, correct?) Though I once did remove a pistol from the hand of a frightened old white man waving it erratically at a young black boy he thought was about to mug him. And I once almost confronted an angry and overbearing large white man who seemed to be bullying a young Asian woman. But she got on a bus and left before I had to try and intervene (much to my relief). So I’ve never had to try to use my very inadequate physical combat skills. But you just never know. One of these days a rabid chipmunk may take me out.

    My wife is as atheistic as I am, but her solution is to never discuss religion. It’s quite amazing we have managed to stay married for 46 years. A marriage that lasts that long is like a . . . Well, you use your own metaphor.

    Anyway, I think my wife feared I was going to proselytize her friend. Actually, I was going to hide my atheist business cards. Prosetylization is so yesterday.

    As I said elsewhere, Christianity is not what it once was. What’s going to replace it?

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  104. In Mercy’s case, my vet held her for observation for several days, tried some natural/holistic medications, but she still lunged at my other dog when I went up to the vet’s a few days later for the consultation. The vet told me I could come home and literally find my other dog dead one day, the behavior was so extreme.

    In his view, the dog had experienced some sort of major psychic “break” of some kind and simply was not safe. It was a very hard decision to put her down, I loved that dog, but the vet said even giving her to a family where she’d be an “only” dog wasn’t a good solution as he felt she’d still be dangerous, possibly even to people in the future (her aggression so far was limited to other dogs).

    I really was out of options (he did suggest working with a behavioralist, but I would have to somehow board her elsewhere, possibly for a long time $$$$ — and the vet wasn’t optimistic that it would make much of a difference anyway). 😦

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  105. Donna,

    A woman at church was telling me about a dog she eventually had to put down after many attempts at retraining it, including what she referred to as “doggy rehab” which is what I think you’re referring to above. Anyway, it obviously didn’t work–even after many months!

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