What’s news today?
I guess this is, but consider me underwhelmed.
The Debate, or as I’m gonna call it, The Argument That Passed as a Debate.
Here’s what some of the network polls had to say.
CNBC has Ryan as the winner 56%-36%
CNN has Ryan as the winner 48%-44%
Here’s what some talking heads had to say.
NBC’s David Gregory says Biden came off as “Maybe Condescending”.
Gee, ya’ think?
Fox News’ Chris Wallace calls it “Most disrespectful debate performance in my lifetime”.
And he’s pretty old.
Why would he say that? Maybe because of this.
From the WashingtonExaminer,
Vice President Joe Biden interrupted Paul Ryan 82 times in a 90-minute debate with rival Paul Ryan.
What did you think?
Wandering Views 
I watched an hour of the debate before I couldn’t stomach any more. I found Biden condescending and just flat out RUDE. He tried to tie himself to Ronald Reagan and kept repeating how he was “in the room” when this and that happened. It didn’t work for him. His facial expressions were NOT appropriate!
In all fairness, I found Ryan’s constant sipping of water distracting. I kept wondering if he was going to need to stop the debate and take a restroom break or if he would just sit there and squirm until the end.
I really wish Ryan had been able to finish a thought before being rudely interrupted. I really can’t say who won or lost because I never got to hear Ryan’s full answer.
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I came across an article written by a former Quiverful adherent on politics and the church — interested to know what folks here think about it. The piece describes a showing of Dinesh DSouza’s film at a Church and this mother’s reaction to it with her teen.
One quote from the piece: “But the larger point I took away from the discussion was more about my perspective as a former card-carrying member of the Christian Right, and how our different worldviews shaped our ability to see the teen movie trip as a problem. From inside the “hedge of protection”—a Christian ghetto undisturbed by competing viewpoints—the pastors could not fathom 2016: Obama’s America as blatant propaganda.”
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/6446/saving_teens_from_obama%3A_when_bible_study_goes_wrong/
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CB, Interesting article, but sad. I don’t believe the film was shown at a church. The writer’s story is very sad. We often take our church youth to movies, but we take them to movies with Christian themes and would not take them to see 2016, even though many of us like D’Souza. Our job is to teach the youth what the Bible says. We stay away from politics.
On the bright side, I talked to two missionaries who just came from Chile. It is as I had hoped. Churches are growing. Balanced budget. Social Security is a real retirement program, not a Ponzi scheme. One said it was like “California 60 years ago.”
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As usual, Peggy Noonan was the best debate analyst.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443749204578051542621349694.html
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Ricky
Right — it was at a church related outing not inside a church.
Chile — Santiago is beautiful this time of year and some of the better wines in the world are grown in Chile. I like Chile — that’d be a good choice if you find you must move. But i do think the search for the more perfect Christian place will be a bit of chimera, but if it gives you peace, search away.
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There are very few Christian countries, because Christians are expected to be tolerant of other religions. In countries and cultures with a strong Christian background and a majority Christian population Christianity eventually get tolerated out. Meanwhile in countries where Christians are in the minority there is persecution of all but the dominate religions.
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CB, We don’t drink wine nor strong drink. Do you think they have Mexican Coke in Chile? KBells, What you said is often true. However, there are places around the world where the church is growing and the people are prospering. It is going to be interesting to see which nation(s) God chooses to lead the world over the next few decades, assuming there are a few decades before the Second Coming.
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Sorry Ricky, there are South American coca cola plants. However, all is not lost. I bet quick web search would confirm whether South American bottlin plants use sugar cane rather than corn syrup.
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Kbells
I actually thimk Christians are capable of higher tolerance because they are generally more secure and understand that an omipotent and omniscient God does not need to have other faiths silenced b mankind’s law.
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CB,
I’m just cracking up at your assertion on the Live Stream thread that Biden was stronger in foreign policy. Especially with expertise like this.
“Syria Is Five Times Bigger Than Libya” – Reality: Libya Is 679,362 Square Miles, Syria Only 71,500…
I guess it depends who you ask.
And he mentioned those tough sanctions working, yet Iran is within 6 months of a nuclear weapon.
Did they change the meaning of “strong on foreign policy”? “Cuz if they didn’t, your comment is laughable. And yet again, he also disagreed with the Obama admin’s official line on the attack in Lybia as well. Expertise? Hardly.
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CB,
I read the article and I felt like I am that woman except I’d substitute public school for church. The author asks the woman how she’d feel about left wing propaganda being shown in school–as if that’s some kind of far-fetched scenario? Seriously?
My kids have been force-fed left wing propaganda, including in the form of films, throughout their lives at public school. (My kids’ elementary school once showed Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth to a class of 5th graders!)
This woman really thinks that she’s left shallow-thinking fundamentalism behind and is now open-minded and able to see things for what they are? Yeah, right. She’s simply stepped outside of one fundamentalist box and stepped into it’s mirror image on the other side.
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Strong on foreign policy?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-throws-intelligence-community-under-bus_654268.html?utm_source=co2hog
“First, Biden blamed the intelligence community for the administration’s confusing public explanations of the 9/11 anniversary attack in Benghazi, Libya. Moderator Martha Raddatz asked Biden directly why administration spokesman “were talking about protests” in Benghazi. “When people in the consulate first saw armed men attacking with guns, there were no protesters. Why did that go on?”
“Because that was exactly what we were told by the intelligence community,” Biden said. “The intelligence community told us that. As they learned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment.”
That’s not the entire story, of course. There were elements of the intelligence community, at least, that knew immediately that there were no protests and that the attack had nothing to do with a video. As Eli Lake reported last month: “In the hours following the 9/11 anniversary attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, U.S. intelligence agencies monitored communications from jihadists affiliated with the group that led the attack and members of Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), the group’s North African affiliate.”
But setting that aside, Biden defended the administration’s ever-changing story on Benghazi by hiding behind the intelligence community and suggesting that their information was incomplete and inaccurate.”
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It’s hard to be condescending when you are Joe Biden, but he tried, he really tried. And the MSM fact checkers are scratching their heads over Biden’s either flat out lie or complete ignorance of requests for greater security in Benghazi. He who is supposed to preside over the Senate seemed to be completely unaware of testimony given this week on the hill.
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Almost couldn’t finish watching. That was not a debate…I don’t know what it was, but that was not a debate. Glad I finished watching though…thought the religion segment was an interesting view of each candidate…
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CB, I agree but it does put us a a disadvantage in the real world sometimes. It does say a lot that the secular world usually claims that Christianity is no different than any other religion but still holds it to a higher standard.
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I really had no plans on watching last nights debate, but did catch the last half hour of it. I had listened to the prognostications and expected to see Ryan cleaning Biden’s clock, but from the limited debate that I witnessed, Biden held his own and seemed a little more enthused to be there than was Ryan.
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Adios,
This addresses your point on Biden’s lies.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/11/biden_contradicts_state_department_on_benghazi_security
“Vice President Joe Biden claimed that the administration wasn’t aware of requests for more security in Libya before the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. mission in Benghazi during Thursday night’s debate, contradicting two State Department officials and the former head of diplomatic security in Libya.
We weren’t told they wanted more security. We did not know they wanted more security there,” Biden said.
In fact, two security officials who worked for the State Department in Libya at the time testified Thursday that they repeatedly requested more security and two State Department officials admitted they had denied those requests.”
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Looks like California wasn’t the state responsible for the skewed UC numbers. So who was it?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/california-demands-business-insider-retract-false-story-jobless-claims-misreporting-
“Turns out the site known best for its slideshow presentations (which will soon double down as advertisements) may have once again fibbed just a little, following an official demand by none other than California state Employment Development Department direct, Pam Harris, that BI retract its article. To wit: “Reports that California failed to fully report data to the U.S. Department of Labor, as required, are incorrect and irresponsible… It’s unfortunate this ‘reporter’ and others who repeated the article’s erroneous statements chose to speculate rather than report, failing to confirm this information with EDD.” Sure enough, the ‘reporter’ in question replied, and it appears that Business Insider is better informed than California when it comes to matters such as these, and has refused to retract.”
“Ironically this brings up two amusing side effects. One is that the state which actually is exposed as being responsible for this misreporting will be seen as politically in bed with the administration. Which would then beg the question: why? Is said state so desperate for a Federal bail out that it would do anything to perpetuate the current administration, even if it means being responsible for misreported critical economic data. And heaven forbid the state is found to be Illinois…
Or, worse, the BLS did get California claims data, and simply chose to ignore it, which in turn will make allegations that the BLS is purposefully manipulating jobs data which it claims it does not have yet turns out it has, even louder, and most likely result with precisely what Darrell Issa is contemplating: a hearing on the accuracy and validity of economic data in a pre-election context, which if nothing else, will confirm that the US economic reporting apparatus is just as broken as that of other banana republics of which everyone enjoys making fun day in and day out, such as China, yet which are merely doing just what the US has been doing for years.”
I’m still stickin with Illinois.
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inbutnotof, the primary reason it was not a debate is that the moderator allowed Biden to interrupt Ryan 82 times. Further, Biden’s responses were often crude put downs of Ryan’s points, not serious arguments.
Reagan had reason to once remark that Biden was a “smooth but pure demagogue.” Last evening he wsn’t even smooth. He proved to be an arrogant, sneering fool.
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Regarding the debate, liberals were virtually celebrating on Twitter & FB as it ended. Even some thoughtful conservatives whom I respect who were live blogging on other sites were saying Ryan pretty much blew it, he failed to do what he needed to do and that Biden had probably “won” this round.
Funny, though.
By the time I went to bed a few hours later, all I kept seeing on news sites was that voter polls indicated Ryan had won (or that it was perhaps a draw) — and the most talked-about aspect of the evening had become Biden’s laughing, chortling and smirking through it all and how rude it was.
I also found that distracting, but not really surprising. I expected as much.
He has very white teeth though.
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And nice hair plugs. And a killer spray on tan as well.
😆
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Aj,
Honey I think the Syria Lybia comparison had to do with population rather than geographical area, butnsince you seem to need to prove your point I could agree at most that Biden misspoke. At least Biden was aware that the same solution wouldn’t work because the two countries are not the same.
On Benghazi, as you are well aware, my preference is to see what the review board has to say before commenting further. The one comment I will make is that I would not at all be surprised if the President and Veep were not briefed on individual requests od State Department posts
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Libya – there some days when I simply do not spell well.
Ree
Do you really think a screening in a public school of a film on climate change is comparable to a church outing to a film screening of D’Souza’s film?
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Ricky, thanks for the Noonan link, she pretty much nails it. Appreciated her take on how pushiness/aggression is not the same as strength.
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The RNC is already out with a brief ad that makes political hay from Biden’s goofy giggling while Ryan was making some serious points.
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donna j: I saw the same thing that you wrote about concerning the debate. As time went on more and more people spoke about Biden’s mannerisms and body language during the debate. One ABC commentator said after the debate that Biden had won just by doing so much better than expected, but she also said that both sides will spin to try to win the “post debate debate” and Biden’s actions during the debate will likely be the subject of that spin.
Being from Wisconsin, I have seen Ryan speak a number of times and I have never seen him look as listless as he appeared last night. I doubt that many voting decisions are based upon vice presidential debates, so last night was just discussion fodder for political addicts. It’s too nice outside to sit in the house, so I’m going to get outside for a bit.
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Sails – I agree. They ganged up on Ryan…
CB – Biden can’t possibly misspeak…he claimed TWICE last night that he “always means exactly what he says”…
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I knew Biden was interrupting a lot, but 82 times in 90 minutes? That’s almost one a minute! And so low class referring to the Isreali president by his first name only.
But my favorite line is when Biden claimed he means everything he says. Oh, really?
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I forgot: Mr Biden proves why Americans are thought rude around the world. We know how to argue, but few of us know how to debate.
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A left wing propaganda film is certainly comparable to a right wing propaganda film, and I would agree that neither one is appropriate for either venue. Even the author of your article said that left wing propaganda films aren’t appropriate in public schools by using that as an example. On the other hand, it’s not comparable because public school attendance is mandatory and church attendance is not. No doubt that girl will never go to the Salvation Army youth group again. No big deal. But pulling one’s kids out of public school is a big deal. Especially when one’s circumstances give one no other alternative.
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And, CB, the fact that you only recognize it as propaganda when it comes from the right, and not from the left, is exactly the left wing fundamentalist mindset I was talking about with the author of the article.
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Jay Nordlinger at NRO sums up the debate nicely as follows:
… thought Biden was repellent, in this debate. Disgusting. Nasty. Disgraceful. All that smirking and sighing and eye-rolling and laughing (derisive laughing) and interrupting. He wasn’t aggressive. He was rude. He was an ass. I’m a conservative Republican, so what do I care? But if I were a liberal Democrat, I’d be mortified. “This is the guy representing us?”…
Ryan? On balance, I thought he was very good. Superb, even. Thoughtful, polite, informed, honest, sincere, smart, nimble, concerned, likable. I would have thought this if I were on the other side — if I were a liberal Democrat. I would have thought, “Oh, crap — their guy’s some kind of knight, and our guy’s a boor.”
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We have had 2 debates can anyone tell me what Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden are going to do if they win 4 more years?
Thanks I am out.
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Ree
Left wing fundamentalist mind set? Because I do think climate change is real and am unconvinced by the arguing of a miniscule number of self-proclaimed experts? I often think that evangelicals view others as only capable of manichean thinking because it is all they know.
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Actually, Peter, that’s a lot MORE than once per minute. It would be once per minute if Ryan were speaking the entire 90 minutes. Since 90 minutes includes times Biden himself was talking, or the moderator was talking, the “in 90 minutes” is actually an incorrect gauge!
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Cheryl,
It’s even worse broken down. I hadn’t thought of that. 1 per minute was bad enough.
😯
——————————————
And Hi Roy!
And Bye Roy!
Hope all is well with you and your family.
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CB,
Believing that anthropomorphic climate change is real doesn’t make you a left wing fundamentalist. You can agree with that general view just as I’m inclined to agree with many of Dinesh D’Souza’s opinions about Obama. But whether one is in general agreement with a particular viewpoint or not, one should still be able to recognize when a view is presented as propaganda and when it’s presented in a more fair-minded and properly qualified way. That’s what I’m talking about. And when I’m presenting what I regard as truth to my children, I try to avoid doing it with propaganda. And I’d sure as heck appreciate the public schools using the same discretion. But they won’t.
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I should say, believing in anthropomorphic climate change doesn’t necessarily make one a fundamentalist in and of itself.
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