Good morning!
This is the Daily thread. You know what to do.
Quote of the Day
“You can observe a lot by just watching.”
Yogi Berra
Oooops!
I almost forgot, Happy Columbus Day!
Wandering Views
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Wandering Views 
Good morning everyone!
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Good morning.
It’s been a rather rough week so far, and it’s only Monday morning!
Bad day with two of the arrows yesterday–one, not too surprising; the other, quite unexpected.
Said goodbyes yesterday to extended family members who are moving a long ways away.
Four hours of sleep, then insomnia the rest of the time up to now.
And three dentist appointments this morning, two of which will likely contain bad news, if things follow the typical trend.
Prayers for me and my attitude would be most welcome. 😦
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Today’s Compare and Contrast
Part of the reason we got married yesterday and are having the party next week is that my friend Malia had wedding issues all week-end. Malia is closer in age to some of her aunts so her oldest daughter grew up with Malia’s first cousin. Malia is more of an aunt to the cousin than a cousin. On Friday she hosted the bridesmaid luncheon, she directed the rehearsal on Friday night and was in charge of everything for the 4pm wedding on Saturday.
Big Wedding was supposed to be on a different bluff overlooking the Bay but when they got there the Baldwin Pops Band had already set up with big blue tents, so they moved it to my bluff.
Four year old flower girl had to go potty during rehearsal.
I had no flower girl and 15 yr old BG can hold it if necessary
Mother of the bride forgot to order flowers for the grandmothers.
My groom ordered all the flowers for BG and me.
Big Wedding started 45 minutes late because the bride and the bridesmaids had to do hair and make-up again after the crazy schedule the photographer had them on.
My wedding started 5 minutes early because we were all there.
My photographer was the minister’s wife.
Big wedding cost close to 10 or 15 THOUSAND or more dollars.
Mine was the cost of two bouquets, a boutanierre, and a hundred dollars for the minister.
Then there is the compare and contrast to my first wedding and this one.
Then I was a nervous wreck and threw up all day
Yesterday, I was calm, not worried about much, got myself dressed. Rolled BG’s hair on hot rollers. Let her wear the ugly dress instead of the pretty one and didn’t really care. Got married, went to dinner, and didn’t throw up. Stress – free. And still just as married as all those stressful weddings.
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I am very happy for you Kim. I hope you and Paul are as blessed as Cindi and I have been in our 35 years of marriage. You tell Paul, I said marrying you was the best day’s work he will ever do..
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Yes, Happy Columbus Day! I never aspired to be a government employee, but since I am one now (as an employee of a community college), I am enjoying having a day off with things still open so I can get stuff done. I have a dentist appt at 8, doctor appt at 9:45, IEP meeting at the middle school at 3:30. And someone in between I will drop in where I used to work to say hello – since it’s work as usual for them.
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Good morning all. What a weekend! Taught our women’s retreat up at Murrieta Hot Springs. That was all blessing though I didn’t ever go in the springs. In between sessions and workshops I was on the phone with my SIL and daughter as he was ambulanced from Pensacola to Gainsville, FL for emergency brain surgery. So the ups were way up and the downs were way down. I’m exhausted, but SIL is doing well and on the road to recovery.
Kim, so happy for you! Put more pics on FB! Funny wedding contrasts. One of my daughters had a camping wedding. It was beautiful, in expensive, very stress-free and tons of fun.
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Kim, my wedding wasn’t as simple as yours–I wanted family and friends there, a white lace dress, etc.–but it still cost about 10% of what today’s “average” wedding costs, and that was complete with a dress I adored, plenty of roses, a lovely cake, a violin and a cello, etc.
My sister’s wedding (about fifteen years earlier) was inexpensive for what she got, but still cost about three times as much as mine because she had a fairly elaborate wedding. The problem is, she was quite stressed out heading into it, with physical symptoms of stress, and looking back she really doesn’t even remember her wedding day. So it was a lot of money and stress, but probably not worth it.
That made me doubly certain that I wanted to stick with what I actually like, and as inexpensively as possible without being “cheap.” I think that is a much better plan than trying to impress one’s wedding guests! The marriage is the most important part, not the wedding, though a wedding is a sweet way to start a marriage.
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My wife and I were married in a Unitarian Church because her mother wanted a “church wedding,” and I thought the UUC was the least church-like church I knew. A few years later, my brother got married in the same church with the same minister. My wife and I knew the marriage would not work even before they got married, but what can you do?
Our daughter (about 3 at the time) ran around and chortled and played with flowers at my brother’s wedding. My wife was hideously embarrassed and wanted to take her outside the church. However, the minister, a pleasant grandfatherly man,, said, “No, no; I love it when we have children enjoying themselves at my weddings. Let her frolic!”
We were right. My brother’s first marriage did not last. They were in Senegal for three years, (Peace Corps) so being the only two white people in an African village held them together that long, but soon after returning, they divorced. My brother’s second marriage held up, and we will see them shortly. Mother in law is demented and living with them. So there is always something. Until you go to Heaven, and then everything gets straightened out. Or so you believe, I guess.
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Good morning all. I had totally forgotten that it was Columbus Day until you mentioned it. I suppose that I can walk back down to my mail box and retrieve the bill payments that I intended to mail today so they don’t get damp from the rainfall predicted tonight.
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The next one is a tough one, but I feel my frontal lobes (where the higher brain functions live) melting away even as I type, so I must make trouble even as God lets me.
While empiricism and its lack of evidence for the existence of God is a serious problem for Christians, a far greater problem for religious believers is suffering. To be a human being is to suffer. We suffer by knowledge of our own mortality. We suffer because people we love and care for suffer and die.
Christianity is fueled by empathy. It’s the fuel for goodness. It’s encapsulated in the Golden Rule.
My neighbors are wonderful Christians. They are wonderful people by the standards of their church and by our secular standards. At the church meetings after our volunteer wood splitting and collection, we chat. My neighbor spoke of a book he found quite inspiring. He said, It talks about rape and death – experiences I don’t like to read about – but when I stuck with the book I found the ending very inspiring and comforting. [Close approximation to his exact words.]
A bit curious, I picked up a copy at a local used bookstore. The book is titled The Shack. I read it all the way through. It’s probably the worst book I’ve ever read, or at least very close to deserving that description. It’s an enormously popular work of Christian apologetics. I’m guessing that at least some people here have read it. It typifies one of the most common Christian responses to suffering. Basically, it boils down to saying that we suffer because God loves us. Although it’s a very foolish book in my opinion, it IS readable and I had no trouble getting through it.
I have known people in abusive personal relationships. The most typical type of relationship is a woman married to a man who beats her. Once someone is embroiled in such a situation, it is very difficult to get her out of it. She says, “I know he really loves me. He just beats me when he is drunk. He just beats me because I am not good enough. If I just do what he wants, he will treat me better.” (I am just giving a typical example – it can involve many variations of sexes, ages, relationships. I am sure you have observed what I am talking about. Some of you may have been in – and escaped from such relationships.)
This may offend as much as anything I have ever posted. I perceive the argument presented by books such as The Shack – God makes me suffer because He loves me – as the epitome of people in abusive relationships.
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Loved the compare and contrast, Kim. You did it right! It almost makes me want to join FB so I can see more of the simple beauty of your wedding.
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“But what can you do?” Random asked and what should we do, if anything, when we see this?
We always tell our kids they will know it is the one when everyone around them truly celebrates at the wedding.
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I started reading The Shack and had to put it down because it so much misrepresents Christianity. It is very convoluted in its premise of how we can “choose” to see and interpret God. The god portrayed in The Shack is not the God of the Holy Bible.
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I led the discussion on The Shack for our Periodic Book Club and if you read it as an analogy it is not quite so bad. But if you didn’t like it at all and you have no other compelling reason to read it, don’t bother.
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Interesting analysis of The Shack. It presents God (for a bit) as a woman and has other innovative interpretations of God, Jesus, Holy Ghost. As my religious friends/neighbors have become very accepting of homosexuals and people with other religious beliefs over the year (though still consider themselves “Christians,” the book may appeal to them. Every Christian seems to have their own interpretation of the “God of the Hol Bible.” Perhaps one of the reasons why there are so many denominations and churches and each group for the most part sticks to their own group. Yet most Christians (in 2012) are civil with each other and tolerate each other. Quite different from the 1600s when Catholics and Protestants sometimes killed each other and the Puritans fled to the colonies, and the Puritans hanged a few Quakers. (But only a few, as they were making progress, even though Roger Williams had to flee to Providence and hide out with the “savages.”
My theory is that humans (religious and secular) are gradually civilizing ourselves, but it is very, very late in the day. The coyotes, crows, orcas, rats, and Octopi are just biding their time.
If you see some coyotes praying, time to worry. Be very worried. Pray harder.
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Adios, anything I can do for daughter and SIL? I am closer than you.
My stepsister’s funeral will be tomorrow at 10 from St. Mark’s Lutheran. I am off now to get the casket spray.
Oh and by the way I changed my mind on Saturday about which dress to wear after I saw the flowers Paul had ordered. See? No stress, low stress, although I DID have to IRON the dress!!!!
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My pastor led a four week discussion of The Shack mainly so we could engage with non-Christians who might read it. Some in our group thought it was a really good book while others like myself could not get through it. The pastor’s conclusion, since he read it and was qualified to judge it, was that it is not so bad as some people say and not so good as others say. My problem with it is that if someone has no knowledge of Christianity and this is the first book they read pointing them to the God of the Bible, they will be led astray to start with. Do you give a book such as The Shack to lead someone into Christianity because they may be more open to a god who loves their kind of music no matter if the style and words may be jarring and not Christian in nature? I know we are to meet people where they are at, but I for one do not want to lead them astray from the get-go. I am glad you did not like it, Random. I think mature Christians can handle it without having their faith in the true God of the Bible shaken. Baby Christians who don’t know the Bible well, and there are lots of those, may not do so well in reading this book.
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Happy Thanksgiving, Phos/Roscuro!
I was quite young when we married (19) and didn’t have a clue. My mom handled most of the details and it was quite plain and simple. Probably quite inexpensive as both the wedding and reception were in our church and I wore my mom’s wedding dress. I would do things even simpler, like Kim did, if I were to do it over again.
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Kim, you did good.
I confess I never did quite understand the appeal of the big weddings with all the frills, although my roommate had dreamed of having one (and had one), which was very meaningful to her. And things were no doubt a bit cheaper back in those days (early 1980s) also, but I do remember the flowers especially cost a boatload of money even back then.
But I was her maid of honor and by the end of the day I seriously felt like I was near collapse. It was a very long day — morning primping, the full Catholic wedding Mass preceded & followed by photo sessions galore, then a sit-down dinner for a couple hundred people which got served very, very late, dancing-dancing-dancing …). Aiy-yai-yai.
Sheesh (see? this is what I mean when I say I think I must have missed the 😉 romantic gene or something). I was left with a screaming headache and aching feet by the time they headed off for the honeymoon long after dark, a few of us still standing to wave goodbye from in front of her parents’ home.
But later she said she had a blast all day long, never felt one moment of stress (and she typically is the nervous sort). So there you go. Different strokes.
And she had the wedding she’d always dreamed about.
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Pauline, I was going to say enjoy your day off, but it doesn’t sound like a real fun day with all the appointments. Still, it’s nice to have a weekday free to get caught up on that kind of thing, too, I suppose. I’m working a late shift today which means cop calls before heading out to cover a night meeting where I’ll have to live tweet through part of it, then write a story afterward.
Adios, prayers for your SIL. That’s hard being so far away.
Our deacon (50ish) who is battling a malignant brain tumor is doing well, considering. He continues to recover his speech following surgery, but now is having to go through chemo/radiation treatments.
But he’s been back in church for several weeks in a row now and he and his wife are in my home group which has just started up for the coming year. We have our second meeting this Thursday I believe, we’re going through 1 Peter.
I never read the Shack as the descriptions I read of it never particularly appealed to me. I’ve mostly heard criticism of the book’s premise from the Christians I know who did read it, although I know some here on the blog enjoyed it.
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The problem is, you practically have to be an English major and a Biblical scholar to be able to tease out the truth and the “good stuff.”
Even I don’t have the patience to do that and so I doubt any casual reader will be looking for the deeper meaning.
What, to me, is the pseudo-take away is thinking about God outside of the box of “normal” Christian life. If you can let go of some of your thoughts on things such as is God a man or a woman (he is genderless, we just use he for convenience), it works better.
Again, though, I wouldn’t give it to a seeker. I’d hand him/her the opening chapters of the book of John or even 1 John for a simpler and truer explanation of who God is.
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And then there are these kinds of weddings, where a stun gun was required to cool off the reception brawl. A night to remember, indeed.
😦
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/08/man-dies-during-massive-brawl-between-wedding-receptions-in-philadelphia/?test=late
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It somewhat distresses me that one of our chain’s top national editors commended this piece (as “powerful”) on FB just now.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_spectator/2012/10/is_the_republican_party_racist_how_the_racial_attitudes_of_southern_voters_bolster_its_chances_.single.html
From the column:
“I’ve spent some time putting ‘truth’ claims and false equivalencies in perspective because I want to test the theory that there is one truth in political discourse that the media has almost entirely failed to recognize or fears to utter, one at the heart of presidential campaign reporting: The Republican Party is an institutionally, structurally racist entity. It’s the veritable elephant in the room of campaign coverage.”
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Good Morning…
Praying for you and yours 6 Arrows…rough start to the week…so sorry
The Shack…grated against me from the beginning..ended up throwing it away…bought “Burning Down the Shack”…very interesting read.
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One person at TV, at least, is very upset with me. He (or she) posted some angry comments last night (Sunday, 10/7/2012). He seemed to be offended that I referred to and admired Roger Williams. He argued that Roger argued for tolerance among Christians; not toward atheists such as myself.
I replied very sarcastically. However, I feel sorry for this person. I suspect this person is experiencing a great deal of suffering in his life, though I don’t know this for a fact. I am guessing that the person is displacing what might be anger at God into anger at me.
If my guess is true, my leaving Traveling Views (and the disappearance of my expression of my atheistic opinions) would not much alleviate this person’s suffering and anger.
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Random’s parting comment on yesterday’s thread:
“Good morning. Well, good evening and good morning. I read all the comments. As usual (having blocked my heart and mind against an imaginary God whose existence is obvious to everybody but me, I continue to disagree, while treasuring the infinite punishment God has reserved or me because He loves me so much). Let’s see if there is a Monday, thread.”
God loved you so much that He gave you a way out of eternal punishment. I am trusting that He will make a way to draw you to belief in Himself. He loves you so much that He does not want you to ever have to suffer the stew reserved for Satan and friends.
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The basic problem with complaints about my participation at TV, and my criticisms of religious belief, is that Christians and atheists share the same mundane world, and we participate in making decisions that affect each other. Christians believe that God guides them (through the Bible) into knowing the “correct” decisions.
I don’t know that there are “correct” decisions. (That’s why I call myself not only an “atheist,” but also an “ethical nihilist.”) In some areas, I think empirical research helps make “better” decisions. We are cranking up to an election and I have been attending election “forums” for our island. We are having several contentious referendums and initiativse coming up to vote on. One is about homosexual marriage and another is about legalizing marijuana. First, homosexual marriage (as you know, although I am “straight” this is one of my favorite hobby horses). While I am voting in favor of R-74 (to legalize “gay” marriage), I don’t really approve of it. Recently, the local newspaper printed the following letter, written by me:
To the editor:
My daughter, a wonderful woman working on medical research that helps save children’s lives and helps alleviate human suffering, wants to marry her partner of 20 years, a fine teacher at an excellent school and also a wonderful woman. As a loving parent, I am all for their desire to receive society’s approval on their relationship. I will happily and proudly attend any wedding they may have.
After attending an Referendum 74 forum in Oak Harbor, I now believe R-74 is the wrong way to solve the controversial and difficult issue of homosexual marriage. I am not a religious believer. I believe it’s time to “privatize” marriage. The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is one of the most important parts of our nation’s heritage. It protects the rights of religious believers to worship and practice their beliefs however they see fit. It also protects the rights of all citizens — religious believers and non-believers (such as myself) alike — to live in a civil, productive and peaceful society.
The solution to the debate I heard about what marriage should be is to separate the definition of “marriage” (essentially a religious term, defined in a variety of ways) from the definition of partnership relationships among human beings. Most commonly these relationships involve reproduction, child care and rearing, property, medical and end-of-life issues. Speaking as a person married for 46 years, I know that marriage, domestic partnership, civil union or whatever label we want to use to describe human relationships is a very difficult task. About 50 percent of marriages fail.
Let churches define marriage as their beliefs dictate. Churches should be free to marry or not marry anyone they see fit. Church marriage should have no legal standing. Society, using traditional and common sense definitions of marriage and domestic partnerships — permitted for consenting adult humans — should regulate these relationships as part of our civil law process. When adults alone are involved, these relationships are best regulated by contract law. When children are involved, society has a legitimate interest in protecting children’s welfare in regard to matters such as health and education. These are difficult issues involving contentious matters such as home schooling (which I do not oppose). These issues remain difficult no matter how we define marriage.
The letter has stirred up some discussion in the newspaper’s on line edition. I have also received at least one phone call, but as the caller was going to a medical appointment, I am awaiting his return so I can find out what is on his mind. (I think I know, but as the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.)
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I did not love The Shack. Someone here suggested that I finish reading it and I did. If you do some research into the author and know that he is the child of missionaries and was pretty much raised by black women you understand it a little better.
Reading it once was enough for me and I don’t even own a copy of it.
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Kim, thanks for the offer. SIL will be in Gainesville, in ICU for two more days and then transferred back to the Naval hopaital in Pensacola for more days. Not really sure when they will be home. The Marines have covered all the expenses for travel, hotel, food, gas and even sent a gunny to Gainesville to help be an advocate since the neurosurgeon at Sacred Heart didn’t know how to use his own brain 😉 But once they get home if there is a need you’re my first call! Thanks again.
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Thank you for the comments about The Shack. How can I not be fascinated by this forum and its discussions?
Last night, I went to another referendum discussion, about issues such as requiring 2/3 legislative majority to pass tax increases, to allow charter schools, and to legalize marijuana. Unless you live in Washington state, you are probably not very interested in these issues. (I am not sure of God’s opinion on these issues, but I presume each of you knows God’s wishes in these matters.)
Although I drink alcohol very moderately (and never when I am going to be driving), and have never used marijuana, I’ve long been puzzled why we repealed Prohibition so long ago (before I was born) and have maintained a zealous resistance to allowing mind-altering drugs such as marijuana.
In recent years, marijuana use has been “sneaking in the back door” so to speak for medical use. One argument in support of this use is that it alleviates suffering for people suffering from illnesses such as cancer.
Two people spoke at the forum on this issue. An intelligent, articulate, and (forgive me) attractive woman who had been a prosecutor in Washington state spoke in favor of the initiative to make marijuana legal. A man who identified himself as a medical marijuana user spoke against broad legalization. I was surprised a bit that a law enforcement officer spoke for legalization. And, as I had expected the anti-legalization representative to be a conservative “anti-drug use” person (perhaps religious) I was a bit surprised. As the strict rules of the forum did not give him much chance to express himself, I spoke with him after the forum.
Basically his argument boiled down to this:
1) The proposed law would change “driving under the influence” enforcement from a police officer stopping some one for erratic driving and testifying that was the reason for the stop.
2) Once a stop had been made, the person’s blood would be tested for THC (active ingredient in marijuana) level.
3) As a person who needed pain relief he takes marijuana on a daily basis. As a person with a job, he needs to drive on a daily basis.
4) Marijuana use does not impair driving nearly as badly as alcohol use for most people.
5) He also felt that the proposed law was a combination of “big companies” taking over the marijuana business and police and other law enforcement interests still pursuing a futile war on drugs by other means.
6) As I am rude, I asked him what his medical problem was. He explained that he had suffered an arm injury that left him with fairly permanent pain. I also spoke with a friend of his (who had accompanied him to the forum, but not spoken in the public presentation). The friend said that he suffers from a neurological (brain functioning problem) and doctors had found marijuana helped alleviate it. I asked both if they were “recreational” marijuana users. Both said they had used some in their youth, but as they grew older had stopped using it and only used it again when it helped their medical problems.
7) During the forum [debate] there were many polite (but quite intense disagreements about many medical issues. I won’t summarize them here.
Bottom line: I will probably vote against the legalization of marijuana. As I had a serious leg infection (and problems with pain for three months), perhaps if I get sick again, I will try getting stoned for the first time in my life.
If you think my atheistic comments are bad now, wait until I start making comments while high on pot! But perhaps when I am high, I will find God. If I am saved while stoned, will that count with God?
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I now have a connection to Naval Hospital Pensacola…
I am sorry to hear that about Sacred Heart. The have a good reputation.
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Michelle, I don’t think God is called “he” just for convenience. No, He is not male, but the masculinity of address is more than convenience. It’s too big a part of Scripture. We are the bride of Christ, for example. God is more “male” than the more masculine man, so much so that a Christian man will someday be part of His bride. I think His choice to be called “He” is huge, though we don’t necessarily understand it all that well.
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I’m still trying to wrap my mind around Random saying that *The Shack* is “an enormously popular work of Christian apologetics.”
I don’t know a single Evangelical who would agree with that. Not one.
In fact, I have always heard that it is rather heretical, and certainly is not an “apologetics” book. It appeals to the “spiritual” person who is nominally Christian … not Evangelical Christians. (Although, the term Evangelical has become increasingly watered-down as Random’s descriptions of his neighbors show.)
Really … I’m still flabbergasted (gob-smacked? almost speechless?) to hear that this book is something he considers “Christian apologetics.”
SIGH
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Good Afternoon, Y’all!
Big Congrats to Kim and Paul! Sounds like it was a wonderful celebration.
Got to see an old friend/roommate yesterday that I have not seen in person for 24 years. We had a wonderful time catching up and I am thankful for friendships that stand the test of time!
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Soooooo………
How ’bout them Yankees?
😀
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Tammy, we get back to the problem of what is a “real” Christian. My neighbor seems to think he is a “real” Christian. He goes to church about every Sunday. He really seems to believe in God. He flies an American flag outside his home. He does ceaseless good deeds. He and his wife have five children, almost all of whom are in the military or the police, and all of whom seem to be religious believers.
There are aspects that raise my eyebrows a bit. His ancestry is 1/4 Sioux Indian. (Famed Sioux warrior Crazy Horse was one of his ancestors.) Given how American “immigrants” from Europe treated aboriginal people — don’t get me started on Roger Williams again — and given how Christians treated Indians (putting Indian children in boarding schools, etc.) I am not sure why “Indians” would want to become Christians or would be particularly enthusiastic about being U.S. citizens, but I figure that’s his business to reconcile all that. Also, he and his wife have been immensely friendly, kind, and welcoming to my daughter, my daughter-out-of-law, and our non-genetic granddaughter. Now I don’t want to drag up too much of the uncomfortable past, but I’ve read rude words about homosexuals on a place called worldmagblog. Oh, that’s right, Traveling Views is more enlightened about tolerance? In fact, my neighbors have indicated they would gladly attend a wedding of daughter and partner.)
(Although, the term Evangelical has become increasingly watered-down as Random’s descriptions of his neighbors show.)
While my neighbors consider themselves “Evangelicals,” they would I think, take great offense at being described as “watered-down” Evangelicals. Again, I consider it fascinating to encounter the varieties of contradictions among Christians while they strive to they are all of the same belief.
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While I was finishing my last comment, the phone call in response to my letter to the newspaper came through. As I suspected from a little research on line, the person calling is a member of a liberal Methodist church, who worried a little that I was undercutting the campaign to pass homosexual marriage. (He was very familiar with Roger Williams.) I told him that it is very difficult to write something precisely enough that it doesn’t offend or irritate someone. [Why, I do it on a daily basis, without half-trying.] Our conversation was quite cordial.
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the real Aj: The Yanks were fortunate that they didn’t have to face the Rangers (though the Rangers deserved their fate…).
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Random, I see you are fascinated by one of the duties of God, to divide the sheep from the goats. We, as Christians, can only guess given what we know from outward appearances, but God looks at the heart. Some have a sheep’s heart and others a goat’s heart.
I agree, Cheryl, that there would be something lost in not attributing masculine qualities to God above feminine qualities. In the discussion of The Shack, I remember talking about the verse about God being like a mother hen gathering her chicks in His care for people. Even so, God seems to have in general a more forceful control along with great restraint than the picture of the mother hen brings forth. He appeals to us on so many levels. There is truly none like Him.
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If there were a God, it would be an it.
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You guys are really mean.
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Random, God is I AM. That is His calling Himself what/who He is.
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I have been wondering who has not shown up here at Wandering Views besides NJL? Do we have a list or can someone make one? I remember the young gal, Frankie, too, who has not been here. I see Neil over at Worldmag.
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Sounds like Kim had a great day.
God is called “He” because he is the Father of all.
I was almost 27 when I got married and still didn’t have a clue.
first time I ever did that.
I learned a lot, but will never have use for it.
I don’t know how I’ll get my name back on.
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I sent the link to Sawgunner.
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Donna J,
I have had a very relaxing day off, despite the appointments. Dentist is quick and relatively painless – the hygienist cleans my teeth and the dentist comes in and tells me what healthy teeth and gums I have, and I leave with a new toothbrush. In and out in 45 minutes. Doctor appointment was also just a checkup, also quick and relatively painless – though he did get me scheduled for my first ever colonoscopy, which I am not looking forward to because the preparation is unpleasant, even if the procedure is painless.
I enjoyed seeing my former co-workers, even if the one I was most looking forward to seeing was out sick today. I was told I looked happier than I ever had when I worked there. Of course, the fact that I’ve only worked one day out of the past seven (two personal days, one vacation day, the weekend, and today a holiday) means I’m pretty relaxed. And I really do like my new job, it’s a much better fit than the previous one.
The IEP meeting at my son’s school went well. He is currently having about 6 incidents a week when he has trouble coping, they want to get it down to 2 a week. But even so, he’s doing better than last year – even when he has trouble coping it’s not as out-of-control as it used to be. And they think he is improving enough that possibly as soon as next year he might be able to be moved from special ed to a 504 program, meaning he still gets help but through the guidance office instead of special ed. As long as he gets the help he needs, I don’t care what it’s called.
Now I go back to my normal Monday schedule, which is head to the Y to work out in about half an hour, then come home and have dinner. And then tomorrow back to work, and have to adjust to actually working four whole days in a row…
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Random,
I didn’t say that your neighbor was not a real Christian. I said that he shouldn’t be calling himself Evangelical.
When he does so, he undermines the whole definition. However, that is not unusual anymore. I’m sure that a new term will have to be developed, and it will suffice until the more Liberal element start using it too.
That’s just the way of things.
Someone can be saved and be a great person and still be very, very wrong theologically.
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Random,
You don’t understand. That is simply the fact. And, I’m not sure that I could explain it, because it simply won’t make sense to you until/unless you become a Believer yourself.
First of all, to be saved simply requires surrendering one’s life to Jesus Christ. So, one can be a Christian, and still have LOTS of baggage, false ideas, and so on. However, over time, one should slowly be transforming into Christ’s likeness.
A person who calls himself or herself a Christian, but who remains stalled in one place (i.e. no growth, no change, no conforming, no repenting) isn’t really a Christian.
One who is trying on a daily, hourly, by minute basis to let the Holy Spirit work in their lives, and who is willing to grow and change is likely a Christian, even if he or she is still sinning in some areas, still failing to understand, and still holding some grave misunderstandings.
Like any parent, God understands that we are *children* and that we are growing. Does a parent throw up their hands and disown their child for failing in some way? Of course not!
But, a child who repeatedly fails over and over again in the same way, doesn’t care, rebels, and refuses to take correction … a parent may continue to love that child, but may often step back and allow the consequences to fall as they may … often for the child’s own good (the helicopter parent who excuses a very rebellious child and constantly bails that child out is not doing that child any good.)
We all sin. We are all children. We are all on a pathway somewhere. We are either improving and growing, or we are headed down the pathway of rebellion. While God always accepts those who turn around (repent) and start walking back on the right pathway, at some point, He will allow the recalcitrant to continue on the path he or she has chosen.
Your neighbor is likely a very lovely person. He is very likely a true Christian. But, he is not a perfect person. He does not represent ALL Christian belief. He obviously is falling short on some very traditional, very Biblical Christian beliefs. And, he doesn’t fit the definition (as it used to stand) of an Evangelical.
UNLESS, he is being kind and accepting in the hopes of seeing you, your daughter, the Jew and the Muslim repent and start walking on the correct pathway. 😉 It may well be that you see his love and tolerance as ACCEPTANCE, and that may not be the case.
If it is, then he is not Evangelical in his beliefs, but that does not mean that he is not a Christian. Hopefully, the Spirit will continue to work on molding him into Christ’s likeness as he does with the rest of us.
Christians often argue and disagree over various “family” issues. And it is hard to define the edges sometimes. But, overall, “real” Christians do share more beliefs (by far) than they do not share.
It is rather like that old definition of pornography, “I can’t necessarily define it, but I know it when I see it.”
A true Christian is one who is indwelt by the Spirit. The old creeds help, but only God can read the heart and know if He is dwelling inside a person. The fruit should be good (generally), the life should be one of growth; the spirit one that can be corrected and one willing to repent; the conscience one that is working; and the general life direction one of conforming to Christ.
In such a person, the light shines out. Others see it. Not every day. Not all the time. But, most of the time.
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Tammy,
I am trying to say this as politely and respectfully as I can. The more you explain what you mean to me, the more you are digging a hole where my skepticism and disbelief thrive.
Well, heads you win and tails I lose. Or something like that.
My neighbor is quite sad that so far has not been able to evangelize me. Nevertheless, he carries on in a neighborly way. He and his wife are coming home from a cross-country trip tonight. While he was gone, I helped take care of their chickens and ducks for them. The foul fowl made a lot of noise, clucking and quacking, and they tried their hardest to get out where the hawk could eat them. (They did not quite succeed in getting eaten; they just missed the day I saw a hawk soar overhead, on the one day they did succeed in getting into the open.)
I am sure when he returns the ducks and chickens will provide a very critical report on how well I took care of them. Should I tell him that you tried to evangelize me, but succeeded no better than he has? I am sure he will forgive you.
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Good evening all. So you guys were talking about honeymoons over the weekend, and now we get the report of Kim’s nuptials.
So, Kim is now Mrs. H. Congratulations.
Mrs. L and I went to Northeastern Iowa for our honeymoon since w couldn’t afford much else. We made arrangements with a friend who had a trailer house on his farm used for guests. We stayed there. The lady of the house offered suggestions for us to do. To make a long story short, we ended up going to several places Mrs L’s parents went on their honeymoon, without knowing ahead of time where they had gone.
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Over the weekend we went to Sedalia, MO to visit a church we used to attend. I’ve mentioned the pastor of that church as having pancreatic cancer. He was given six months to live- two years ago. Anyway, he is now at the end of this life, but spoke on Sunday, though shorter than usual, and much quieter. I think he shortened the message, I believe, not finishing some of the points.
At any rate, he wrote a letter to the editor which has led to some of the members being able to share the gospel with their neighbors. Here it is: Pastor bids a final farewell.
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That is one fine letter to the editor.
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Thank you to all who prayed for me today. I got one more hour of sleep after I posted this morning, and that helped.
The dentist appointments went as I suspected: bad news for two (mom and one arrow), good news for the other arrow. Sigh.
The dentist asked me what was new, and I told him, “I’m 50 now!” He and the hygienist told me they didn’t think I looked my age. The dentist said he thinks I look younger than he is (he’s probably mid- or maybe late-30’s), so I got that going for me. 😉 Gave me something to smile about, anyway. 🙂
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Thanks for the post, Peter.
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That was a moving letter, Peter.
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Janice @5:30 pm: A couple others I thought of recently who I don’t think I’ve seen here are Cherievon and MMacMurray. Oh, and NW Julianna (did her name have one or two n’s?).
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We all die. Although I am in fairly good health for my age, I can still observe my body aging, and my mind heading toward failing. It’s quite clear to me that this is the only life we have, and that we are random products of a random universe. Although it seems likely there is other life in the universe, and probably intelligent life, at the moment we have no evidence of any life outside of Earth, and no evidence of similarly intelligent life as human beings on this earth. We are social animals; we are always lonely; we get married (though at least half of all marriages fail); we gather in churches and a million other associations; we help each other; we hurt each other.
I read the letter that Peter L. linked to by Pastor Jennings about his coming death. It is very sad that he is dying; it is very sad that we all die. Probably he is a very good man. Perhaps he really believes what he wrote. (I doubt it, bu I do not know.)
As the empirical evidence for life after death is so little (none in fact), it strikes me as clearly wishful thinking. It raises the question I’ve asked before.
Is it better to go through life believing (or trying to believe, or claiming to believe) that religious belief is true? Or is it better to strive to understand as much as we can about this universe and this life as we can using the tools we have – reason and our senses and the scientific tools we have developed?
Is there any way to evaluate these two alternatives? I have a deep revulsion toward believing something which is (to me) clearly not true. In my small secular group, I have heard other people express the same sentiment. I have a moderate ability to function in opposition to most of the people around me, but I am no genius, no hero, nothing exceptional. Just as I presume you are comforted and encouraged when you go to chuch and find people who express similar beliefs and perceptions as the ones you hold, I am pleased to encounter people with the similar values and ideas.
My neighbors are fine people. We avoid talking about what we disagree on and concentrate on what we have in common. Tammy’s comments about them no being “real evangelicals” and so on seem garbled and confused and make me sad.
I have made many mistakes I regret making and done deeds I wish I had not done. Each day I try to do as well as I can. Each day I try to psychologically, cheerfully, and constructively prepare for my demise.
By fairly obvious and common ways to measure and evaluate, religionists and secularists have done much good and much harm. There will probably always be believers and disbelievers. As individuals we are not immortal. As a species, we are not immortal. Probably an asteroid will not crash into earth tomorrow, but you never know. Probably Jesus Christ will not return to Earth tomorrow. In the unlikely event He was really a divine and loving being and he really did return, I really doubt he would be especially pleased with you.
In my non-objective way, I think most of you have become a little more sensible, and little kinder, a little more accepting of what does not need to be condemned than you use to be. I probably should not say this as you will think I am condemning you or condescending to you, and feel as if you need to regress to prove me wrong. Don’t succumb.
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Peter, good letter. And I’m sure I saw that posted somewhere else, maybe on FB last week sometime? Can’t remember who would have posted it, though.
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