The first part is how your govt launders taxpayer money to donors and activist groups pushing their agenda. This is exactly what they’ve done with the illegal invaders NGOs like the Catholic Church.
It’s govt picking winners and losers based on ideology. It’s also how Congressional insider trading type vermin know which stock to put their money in.
But when Bush did it for Haliburton, one of only three groups in the world who could cap Saddam’s burning oil rigs, it was the worst thing ever.
“Many Democrats say they want to understand what happened. Few genuinely do. That’s because, at some level, they know they’re guilty of having participated in a witch hunt in which they falsely accused their fellow Americans, and even their friends & family, of fascism & racism.”
Holding enemies close is not folly but wisdom. Remember, everything we see is tainted by the tilt of our glasses to the left or right. If our news sources, that we believe, are left leaning then we will believe Trump has true friendship with Communist leaders. He has respect for their power, as I see it. His respect masquerades as a type of friendship
DJ @11:28pm (yesterday)
“Debra, I think we best avoid wars by having a strong defense, keeping our eyes open; so — to me — that’s simply a matter of having wisdom to be aware (and ready).
So you and I have a more fundamental difference there….”
And @11:40pm (yesterday)
“I support being careful about entanglements — but isolationism (which is how I see much of what I’m hearing from Republicans now) is just not a wise course….”
Why would you say that? I do believe in having a strong defense and being wise and ready. And as an aside, that is also part of Trump’s formal agenda for the military—it’s not an isolationist agenda.
I don’t believe it is wise or moral to use our power (military or intelligence such as CIA) to force other sovereign countries to our will unless it’s absolutely necessary and for a moral purpose. Countries are not pawns on a chess board. For example, as a presidential candidate Nikki Haley pushed hard in advocating we bomb Syria, or even Iran. She called it ‘preventative’. Where do you stand on that? Is it justifiable? How is it justifiable? And where do you draw the line?
This is not just about DJ’s position. I think many of you may agree with her, so don’t be afraid to chime in and answer. We’re not perfect, but we don’t have to be. It’s ok to challenge each other to think. And I understand all of us have limited time, so it may take a while to get to the root of our agreements and disagreements.
I feel our military has been weakened in many ways; many facets have been chipped away over the past four years. We need first to be able to defend ourselves before pouring resources, human and otherwise, into other wars that take military or other state department personnel far away and put them in vulnerable positions with no good way out (Biden/Harris leaving Afghanistan and Hillary’s ‘stand down’ stunt at Benghazi). The military should not be used for experiments in sexuality or vaccines. Once it gets back on track and strengthened at home, then use excellent analysis to see where the military can best be used to help keep the peace through shows of strength and loyalty to allies.
“Here is Nikki Haley on Fox News dumping on the Trump campaign just 1 week out from the election
She said that Trump needed to stop “this bromance, masculinity stuff”
Low prop young men were the margin of victory in multiple states”
—–
I pray she doesn’t weasel her way in to this next administration. We had enough undermining establishment plants last time around. Don’t repeat past mistakes.
On a positive note, Trump’s new chief of staff seems like a good choice. And, remember, I do agree with many of his positions on issues, to the extent that he’ll follow through.
So I’m reminded that we have a new president and our call is to pray for him, to accept the will of the people. And we’ll all see where this goes.
Debra, too early and I’m too politics-weary to go there with you, maybe later. I think I may need a political-argument free zone for a while (which is good for me!) after the past year.
So today, I’m grateful the election is behind us and I am (and will be) praying that good will come out of it.
I will always remember my mom’s great example to me on how to be a graceful “winner” when my candidate lost (not lording it over the losing side or gloating, or saying ‘Told ya so;’ but instead sympathizing as she had experienced being on both sides of these rather emotional events and understood how it felt).
By the same token being a graceful “loser” also is incumbent upon us as Americans — but especially as believers who trust in God’s providence, knowing he is doing something in all of this and some of it may be good, some of it maybe not. But it is God’s will and I am determined to pray for the new president and administration as they try to chart their way forward.
God is with us, through all of the good and bad circumstances he causes to come to pass for his purpose.
And I’m praying also for peace among the brethren in this aftermath. Disagreement is natural among human beings; doing it well (biblically, respectfully) maybe harder for us. Praying we’ll do well in that going forward.
This has been an especially brutal political season, so I can’t blame anyone for wanting a politics -free life for awhile. Not at all. But this is the political thread, sooooo…. :–)
We can go back to the areas of disagreement later if people here prefer. Instead, maybe we can build on areas of agreement (DJ indicated there are some) For those who could not vote for Trump, what are the things about his agenda that you find hopeful or that you agree with?
The irony is, if 2020 had been a clean and fair election, then Pres. Trump would have won, and by Jan 20, 2025, they would have been rid of him b/c he would have been termed out. But b/c of the 2020 anomaly (and scam), now they have to put up with Trump for four more years and with JD Vance to follow, it could be 12 more years of Trump/Vance.
Well, I do think Trump lost in 2020 fair and square, Ty. Love ya brother, but … maybe time to let that one go.
The book’s open on Vance, so (my favorite phrase in politics) “we’ll see.” 🙂 There also likely will be other candidates rising up in the years ahead. Way too early to speculate. Let’s get through the 4 years, or even just the first year. God knows and has this, probably surprising all of us in different ways.
Actually, either way this election turned out would have left me somewhat a “loser” — my write-in candidate clearly didn’t have a chance. 🙂
I’m not inclined to believe that fraudulent votes were a big factor in 2020. However it’s puzzling that a 15% spike in total votes that year disappeared this year. (I’m comparing percentages of voting-age population from Wikipedia, not raw counts.)
After all, this year you had people terrified of Trump because of Jan6, felony convictions, Hitler, bloodbath, etc. On the other side you had people fed up with inflation and other Biden-era issues. So if anything, shouldn’t turnout have been just as high this year as four years ago?
From 1972 to 2016, the highest rate of voter participation in presidential elections was 57%, in 2008. That spiked to 63% in 2020, but looks like it will be back down under 55% this year.
dj: I only brought up 2020 b/c now that the numbers are in (though final votes are still being tallied), others have realized just what an outlier 2020 was… there was the over-reaction to Covid, states like Pennsylvania changed the rules of their election at the last minute, there was the widespread, random emergence of drop boxes, followed by a mass mail-in ballot election (for the first time!), followed by further evidences of election fraud. All of a sudden there are almost 27 million more votes cast than in the previous election. Talk about the willing suspension of disbelief!
I can’t understand why people like you actually believe that it was fair and square, but enough of that! I would much rather hear your response to my 7am post at the end of yesterday’s thread asking why you think that the Republican Party is now ‘extreme’.
in my view, God chose not to have Trump last election so he would be there now. Perhaps, at last, people will be willing to work toward a more positive nation. Maybe the direction of the last four years is alarming enough to motivate teamwork.
Tychicus, the fact that Trump received the most votes of any presidential candidate in history, and lost to a man who barely even campaigned, was to me the biggest red flag. Then again, in 2020 I saw that most people weren’t voting for Biden, but voting against Trump, and I didn’t think being “anti” would be enough to get people to vote–but I think I underestimated how much many people despise Trump.
However, 2020 was an outlier in many respects. Many people didn’t have jobs or classes to go to; family events got cancelled (even weddings and funerals, in many cases); sports events and even church services were cancelled for weeks, months, or the entire year. So it is not utterly impossible that a lot more people would vote, especially when voting was made easier than it ever had been before.
I’m inclined to say we’ll never really know exactly what factors made the vote higher. Clearly there was some level of fraud, but whether it was tiny or large, or somewhere in between, I don’t think we can know. Likely the vote count was legitimately a good percentage higher than other elections that had more “competition” from everyday life.
At any rate, if perchance the vote was fraudulent, he could only win in 2020 or 2024, not both years, and he’s probably a better candidate and certainly a politically stronger candidate than in 2020. And more discussion of “2020 was stolen” is more likely to lead to alienation than unity. I’m inclined to think that at this point wisdom is to drop the subject unless you happen to be someone prosecuting known fraud. For those of us who have other callings, it’s probably best to drop the subject, to consider the election of 2024 vindication if it was needed.
I believe not all votes are in (according to Tangle when asked about the popular vote # discrepancies so far). CA allows mail-in ballots to be counted up to 6 days after the election.
So yes, time to move on, there is always voter fraud, always has been, human nature and all of that; but 2020 was not found (after numerous checks and rechecks) to amount to anything near changing the final outcome. At some point it’s time to let go.
Re-litigating all of that is not a great road to go down, we’re all exhausted after a horrific year. But y’all do what you need to do 🙂
~ Q: In 2020, Donald Trump won roughly the same number of popular votes and LOST the election. That same year, Joe Biden won an astonishing 81 million votes. There is a difference of 10 million votes between 2020 and 2024. Where did those 10 million votes go?
— Tom from Missouri
Tangle: I’ve gotten this question from so many people that I’ve lost count. It seems people on the right are pointing to this number to claim 2020 was “obviously stolen” while people on the left are pointing to it because they believe Democrats’ votes were somehow thrown out in 2024.
Neither is true.
The answer is very simple: Votes are still being counted. As of Thursday, roughly 10% of the vote was uncounted, including in very populous states like California and New York. When it’s all said and done, we are likely to be just shy of the raw vote count from 2020. Given that the population grows every year, this would mean voter participation probably came down by about one or two percentage points.
Which, for whatever it is worth, is totally unsurprising to me. Do you remember the pandemic? Politics was everything. Much of the country was still on some kind of lockdown or social distancing, and we were all fighting over the election and the Black Lives Matter movement. Also, because of the pandemic, many states instituted temporary mail-in and early voting measures, which made it very easy for people to vote — which millions took advantage of (I voted by mail in 2020 for the first and only time).
So, no. Those votes didn’t disappear. 2020 wasn’t stolen. There are just a lot of votes slowly being counted, and slightly fewer votes than last time. ~
“Donald Trump’s plan to end the drug epidemic in America by declaring war on the drug cartels.
“We will show no mercy on the cartels.”
1. “Deploy all necessary military assets, including the US Navy to impose the full naval embargo and the cartels.”
2. “Guarantee that the waters of the Western Hemisphere are not used to traffic illicit drugs to our country.”
3. “Order the Department of Defense to make appropriate use of special forces cyber warfare and other overt and covert actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations.”
4. “Designate the major cartels as foreign terrorist organizations.”
5: “Sever their access to global financial systems.”
6. “Get the full cooperation of other governments to stop [the cartels], or we will expose every bribe, every kickback, every payoff, and every bit of corruption that is allowing the cartels to preserve their brutal reign.”
7. “Ask Congress to pass legislation ensuring that drug smugglers and human traffickers receive the de*th penalty.”
“When I’m back in the White House, the drug kingpins and vicious traffickers will never sleep soundly again.””
Clearly something needs to be about the border and the Democrats appeared unwilling to tackle that issue specifically. The situation (what is essentially an open border) is not good for anyone, either people coming here or people here already. I’d like to see a serious attempt at reforming or updating our immigration policies, hoping there’s a willingness to consider that.
I would welcome a pulling back on the gender ID issues.
Also slowing the roll on the mad dash to get to zero emissions like yesterday via cutting off the domestic energy sources we do still have available and should be making use of, forcing car manufacturers to dramatically phase out gasoline models.
Perhaps more of a local issue (and LA now has a new DA who will likely be better at this than our last one) but being tougher on the massive shoplifting sprees and other crimes. Stores are struggling and customers are weary of having to always wait for someone “with a key” to buy a bottle of aspirin. Way easier to just go home and order it on Amazon.
Support for more school choice (which also relies somewhat on local jurisdictions)
Nikki Haley had a point — yes, the young white male vote was important for Trump but unleashing the “bro” culture isn’t a good idea. Now memes with the slogan “Your body, my choice” are circulating on social media. Absolutely disgusting.
Civility and decency should be a prerequisite.
Tychicus – lets wait til all the votes are counted. While I suspect it won’t reach the 2020 level it will be far higher than previous years. And sometimes it’s better to move on especially four years later (I tell my ex-wife that but she doesn’t always listen) . dj is correct being a gracious winner (and loser) is always important.
AJ — I agree. The Democrats need to stay away from identity politics. It’s a distraction from economic issues. But the Democratic party elite don’t want to focus on economic issues as their base wants to move left and they want to stay on the Clinton/Reagan neoliberal track. The Democrats should ignore identity issues and move left on economic issues.
Evidently Letticia got quite mouthy after the election. I don’t believe that will bode well for her…she might want to talk with Jack Smith…
Mike Davis, a staunch ally of President-elect Donald Trump, had some harsh words for New York Attorney General Letitia James during an appearance on “The Benny Show” podcast on Thursday.
“Let me just say this to Big Tish James, the New York Attorney General….I dare you to continue your lawfare against President Trump in his second term,” the founder of the Article III Project said. “Because listen here sweetheart, we’re not messing around this time. And we will put your fat a– in prison for conspiracy against rights and I promise you that.”
Davis warned James to “think long and hard before you want to violate President Trump’s constitutional rights or any other “American’s constitutional rights”
And still there are those deniers denying there was mass voter fraud in 2020…there is evidence and some still want it to die and go away? It’s just not going to go poof. Sorry it kind of reminds me of Clinton’s statement of “what difference does it make” as she was grilled on her cold hearted response to Americans murdered in Benghazi. It makes a difference…and the Dems don’t and won’t admit it of course.
Debra – I used to favour the NDP platform advocating the withdrawal of Canada from NATO and was upset when it was removed. I’ve been reconsidering my position since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. However, the US military and CIA intervention around the world was always the mainstay for my objection to NATO. Even now, my newfound support is tested by the western elites on all sides of the spectrum support for the genocide in Israel.
Yet I don’t see the current Republican party and Trump as a solution. In his first term he actually increased US forces in Afghanistan in what was obviously a losing effort – mostly to avoid looking like a loser, he let Biden take the fall there. And it’s clear Bibi will take the election as permission to escalate. Trump’s personality also indicates to me he would rather avoid embarrassment than walk away from conflict. He’s a “bro” who’s never grown up.
Hopefully there will be a cleaning out after Trump is back in the WH. FEMA workers told to skip over houses in FL with Trump signs…yep…that’s the Democratic way….I have the link but it won’t paste here. It was confirmed by the head office of FEMA…they are disturbed and investigating it further……..
A FEMA supervisor told workers in a message to “avoid homes advertising Trump” as they canvassed Lake Placid, Florida to identify residents who could qualify for federal aid, internal messages viewed by The Daily Wire reveal. The supervisor, Marn’i Washington, relayed this message both verbally and in a group chat used by the relief team, multiple government employees told The Daily Wire.
The government employees told The Daily Wire that at least 20 homes with Trump signs or flags were skipped from the end of October and into November due to the guidance, meaning they were not given the opportunity to qualify for FEMA assistance. Images shared with The Daily Wire show that houses were skipped over by the workers, who wrote in the government system messages such as: “Trump sign no entry per leadership.”
DJ @7:10 Thanks for that. It’s really encouraging to know we have much on the domestic front in common. It will help to remember that when we’re discussing things like foreign policy where we have more disagreement. Also, it will be interesting to see if any of those things improve with Trump policies.
Re @6:42 I hope Trump does lean very heavily on drug cartels and drug gangs and kingpins. They are a big national security issue in my opinion, and our porous border is a big part of that problem.
I don’t want to see personal retributions either. I do want to see the unreasonable power of the bureaucracy broken. Starting with the CIA and FBI. These agencies no longer serve the nation well. I don’t care if they are destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up or just destroyed and perhaps replaced. It’s not a personal vendetta.
Wandering Views 
The first part is how your govt launders taxpayer money to donors and activist groups pushing their agenda. This is exactly what they’ve done with the illegal invaders NGOs like the Catholic Church.
It’s govt picking winners and losers based on ideology. It’s also how Congressional insider trading type vermin know which stock to put their money in.
But when Bush did it for Haliburton, one of only three groups in the world who could cap Saddam’s burning oil rigs, it was the worst thing ever.
https://x.com/fentasyl/status/1854571063566610805?t=KAvj7pjvo89LxagVb1IU3w&s=19
“About 90% ($1.2B/year) of Federal contracts awarded to NGOs are noncompetitive awards.
21% ($33.1B/year) of Federal contracts are noncompetitive, as of this fiscal year.”
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Truth.
And add NTers as well.
https://x.com/shellenberger/status/1854518442579165552?t=cJIEiRaAOj9PqafJtQ9wbQ&s=19
“Many Democrats say they want to understand what happened. Few genuinely do. That’s because, at some level, they know they’re guilty of having participated in a witch hunt in which they falsely accused their fellow Americans, and even their friends & family, of fascism & racism.”
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Holding enemies close is not folly but wisdom. Remember, everything we see is tainted by the tilt of our glasses to the left or right. If our news sources, that we believe, are left leaning then we will believe Trump has true friendship with Communist leaders. He has respect for their power, as I see it. His respect masquerades as a type of friendship
LikeLiked by 1 person
DJ @11:28pm (yesterday)
“Debra, I think we best avoid wars by having a strong defense, keeping our eyes open; so — to me — that’s simply a matter of having wisdom to be aware (and ready).
So you and I have a more fundamental difference there….”
And @11:40pm (yesterday)
“I support being careful about entanglements — but isolationism (which is how I see much of what I’m hearing from Republicans now) is just not a wise course….”
Why would you say that? I do believe in having a strong defense and being wise and ready. And as an aside, that is also part of Trump’s formal agenda for the military—it’s not an isolationist agenda.
I don’t believe it is wise or moral to use our power (military or intelligence such as CIA) to force other sovereign countries to our will unless it’s absolutely necessary and for a moral purpose. Countries are not pawns on a chess board. For example, as a presidential candidate Nikki Haley pushed hard in advocating we bomb Syria, or even Iran. She called it ‘preventative’. Where do you stand on that? Is it justifiable? How is it justifiable? And where do you draw the line?
This is not just about DJ’s position. I think many of you may agree with her, so don’t be afraid to chime in and answer. We’re not perfect, but we don’t have to be. It’s ok to challenge each other to think. And I understand all of us have limited time, so it may take a while to get to the root of our agreements and disagreements.
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These are unserious people, who need to cope harder.
https://x.com/alx/status/1854883036338249941?t=2lO3kmcCaG-tdi4tHNaLsQ&s=19
“Nicolle Wallace: “As a human, I deleted Twitter today as an act of self-preservation”🤣”
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I feel our military has been weakened in many ways; many facets have been chipped away over the past four years. We need first to be able to defend ourselves before pouring resources, human and otherwise, into other wars that take military or other state department personnel far away and put them in vulnerable positions with no good way out (Biden/Harris leaving Afghanistan and Hillary’s ‘stand down’ stunt at Benghazi). The military should not be used for experiments in sexuality or vaccines. Once it gets back on track and strengthened at home, then use excellent analysis to see where the military can best be used to help keep the peace through shows of strength and loyalty to allies.
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Sure Nikki…….🙄
https://x.com/JackPosobiec/status/1854621367393517650?t=7JMmy9o9S2fcXcWN3cpi6A&s=19
“Here is Nikki Haley on Fox News dumping on the Trump campaign just 1 week out from the election
She said that Trump needed to stop “this bromance, masculinity stuff”
Low prop young men were the margin of victory in multiple states”
—–
I pray she doesn’t weasel her way in to this next administration. We had enough undermining establishment plants last time around. Don’t repeat past mistakes.
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On a positive note, Trump’s new chief of staff seems like a good choice. And, remember, I do agree with many of his positions on issues, to the extent that he’ll follow through.
So I’m reminded that we have a new president and our call is to pray for him, to accept the will of the people. And we’ll all see where this goes.
Debra, too early and I’m too politics-weary to go there with you, maybe later. I think I may need a political-argument free zone for a while (which is good for me!) after the past year.
So today, I’m grateful the election is behind us and I am (and will be) praying that good will come out of it.
Peace 🙂
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I will always remember my mom’s great example to me on how to be a graceful “winner” when my candidate lost (not lording it over the losing side or gloating, or saying ‘Told ya so;’ but instead sympathizing as she had experienced being on both sides of these rather emotional events and understood how it felt).
By the same token being a graceful “loser” also is incumbent upon us as Americans — but especially as believers who trust in God’s providence, knowing he is doing something in all of this and some of it may be good, some of it maybe not. But it is God’s will and I am determined to pray for the new president and administration as they try to chart their way forward.
God is with us, through all of the good and bad circumstances he causes to come to pass for his purpose.
And I’m praying also for peace among the brethren in this aftermath. Disagreement is natural among human beings; doing it well (biblically, respectfully) maybe harder for us. Praying we’ll do well in that going forward.
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This has been an especially brutal political season, so I can’t blame anyone for wanting a politics -free life for awhile. Not at all. But this is the political thread, sooooo…. :–)
We can go back to the areas of disagreement later if people here prefer. Instead, maybe we can build on areas of agreement (DJ indicated there are some) For those who could not vote for Trump, what are the things about his agenda that you find hopeful or that you agree with?
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Total votes cast:
2004 – 121,069,054
2008 – 129,446,839
2012 – 126,849,299
2016 – 128,838,342
2020 – 155,507,476
2024 – 129,347,671
Let’s see, where’s the outlier… again?
Even progressives are now saying, “Maybe we really did steal the election in 2020.”
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The irony is, if 2020 had been a clean and fair election, then Pres. Trump would have won, and by Jan 20, 2025, they would have been rid of him b/c he would have been termed out. But b/c of the 2020 anomaly (and scam), now they have to put up with Trump for four more years and with JD Vance to follow, it could be 12 more years of Trump/Vance.
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Well, I do think Trump lost in 2020 fair and square, Ty. Love ya brother, but … maybe time to let that one go.
The book’s open on Vance, so (my favorite phrase in politics) “we’ll see.” 🙂 There also likely will be other candidates rising up in the years ahead. Way too early to speculate. Let’s get through the 4 years, or even just the first year. God knows and has this, probably surprising all of us in different ways.
Actually, either way this election turned out would have left me somewhat a “loser” — my write-in candidate clearly didn’t have a chance. 🙂
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I’m not inclined to believe that fraudulent votes were a big factor in 2020. However it’s puzzling that a 15% spike in total votes that year disappeared this year. (I’m comparing percentages of voting-age population from Wikipedia, not raw counts.)
After all, this year you had people terrified of Trump because of Jan6, felony convictions, Hitler, bloodbath, etc. On the other side you had people fed up with inflation and other Biden-era issues. So if anything, shouldn’t turnout have been just as high this year as four years ago?
From 1972 to 2016, the highest rate of voter participation in presidential elections was 57%, in 2008. That spiked to 63% in 2020, but looks like it will be back down under 55% this year.
Where did all those 2020 voters go?
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dj: I only brought up 2020 b/c now that the numbers are in (though final votes are still being tallied), others have realized just what an outlier 2020 was… there was the over-reaction to Covid, states like Pennsylvania changed the rules of their election at the last minute, there was the widespread, random emergence of drop boxes, followed by a mass mail-in ballot election (for the first time!), followed by further evidences of election fraud. All of a sudden there are almost 27 million more votes cast than in the previous election. Talk about the willing suspension of disbelief!
I can’t understand why people like you actually believe that it was fair and square, but enough of that! I would much rather hear your response to my 7am post at the end of yesterday’s thread asking why you think that the Republican Party is now ‘extreme’.
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in my view, God chose not to have Trump last election so he would be there now. Perhaps, at last, people will be willing to work toward a more positive nation. Maybe the direction of the last four years is alarming enough to motivate teamwork.
mumsee
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Not all the votes are counted yet.
mumsee
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Tychicus, the fact that Trump received the most votes of any presidential candidate in history, and lost to a man who barely even campaigned, was to me the biggest red flag. Then again, in 2020 I saw that most people weren’t voting for Biden, but voting against Trump, and I didn’t think being “anti” would be enough to get people to vote–but I think I underestimated how much many people despise Trump.
However, 2020 was an outlier in many respects. Many people didn’t have jobs or classes to go to; family events got cancelled (even weddings and funerals, in many cases); sports events and even church services were cancelled for weeks, months, or the entire year. So it is not utterly impossible that a lot more people would vote, especially when voting was made easier than it ever had been before.
I’m inclined to say we’ll never really know exactly what factors made the vote higher. Clearly there was some level of fraud, but whether it was tiny or large, or somewhere in between, I don’t think we can know. Likely the vote count was legitimately a good percentage higher than other elections that had more “competition” from everyday life.
At any rate, if perchance the vote was fraudulent, he could only win in 2020 or 2024, not both years, and he’s probably a better candidate and certainly a politically stronger candidate than in 2020. And more discussion of “2020 was stolen” is more likely to lead to alienation than unity. I’m inclined to think that at this point wisdom is to drop the subject unless you happen to be someone prosecuting known fraud. For those of us who have other callings, it’s probably best to drop the subject, to consider the election of 2024 vindication if it was needed.
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I believe not all votes are in (according to Tangle when asked about the popular vote # discrepancies so far). CA allows mail-in ballots to be counted up to 6 days after the election.
So yes, time to move on, there is always voter fraud, always has been, human nature and all of that; but 2020 was not found (after numerous checks and rechecks) to amount to anything near changing the final outcome. At some point it’s time to let go.
Re-litigating all of that is not a great road to go down, we’re all exhausted after a horrific year. But y’all do what you need to do 🙂
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They’ve learned nothing. They seem unable to grasp the state of voters at this point in history.
https://x.com/EricLDaugh/status/1854888909978636672?t=lVhGqiLUrrtdRVCgwSIQLQ&s=19
“NYT COLUMNIST: After Trump’s win, Democrats need to double down on identity politics if they want a shot at winning next time.”
—–
Yeah sure, please go with that!
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From Tangle:
~ Q: In 2020, Donald Trump won roughly the same number of popular votes and LOST the election. That same year, Joe Biden won an astonishing 81 million votes. There is a difference of 10 million votes between 2020 and 2024. Where did those 10 million votes go?
— Tom from Missouri
Tangle: I’ve gotten this question from so many people that I’ve lost count. It seems people on the right are pointing to this number to claim 2020 was “obviously stolen” while people on the left are pointing to it because they believe Democrats’ votes were somehow thrown out in 2024.
Neither is true.
The answer is very simple: Votes are still being counted. As of Thursday, roughly 10% of the vote was uncounted, including in very populous states like California and New York. When it’s all said and done, we are likely to be just shy of the raw vote count from 2020. Given that the population grows every year, this would mean voter participation probably came down by about one or two percentage points.
Which, for whatever it is worth, is totally unsurprising to me. Do you remember the pandemic? Politics was everything. Much of the country was still on some kind of lockdown or social distancing, and we were all fighting over the election and the Black Lives Matter movement. Also, because of the pandemic, many states instituted temporary mail-in and early voting measures, which made it very easy for people to vote — which millions took advantage of (I voted by mail in 2020 for the first and only time).
So, no. Those votes didn’t disappear. 2020 wasn’t stolen. There are just a lot of votes slowly being counted, and slightly fewer votes than last time. ~
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This is the way.
They’re responsible for the deaths of nearly a half a million Americans in the last half decade. No mercy.
https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1854980821587050921?t=DdG6bQhfSZosMDLvP8BeZA&s=19
“Donald Trump’s plan to end the drug epidemic in America by declaring war on the drug cartels.
“We will show no mercy on the cartels.”
1. “Deploy all necessary military assets, including the US Navy to impose the full naval embargo and the cartels.”
2. “Guarantee that the waters of the Western Hemisphere are not used to traffic illicit drugs to our country.”
3. “Order the Department of Defense to make appropriate use of special forces cyber warfare and other overt and covert actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations.”
4. “Designate the major cartels as foreign terrorist organizations.”
5: “Sever their access to global financial systems.”
6. “Get the full cooperation of other governments to stop [the cartels], or we will expose every bribe, every kickback, every payoff, and every bit of corruption that is allowing the cartels to preserve their brutal reign.”
7. “Ask Congress to pass legislation ensuring that drug smugglers and human traffickers receive the de*th penalty.”
“When I’m back in the White House, the drug kingpins and vicious traffickers will never sleep soundly again.””
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Debra @3:04, I’ll start with a few:
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Nikki Haley had a point — yes, the young white male vote was important for Trump but unleashing the “bro” culture isn’t a good idea. Now memes with the slogan “Your body, my choice” are circulating on social media. Absolutely disgusting.
Civility and decency should be a prerequisite.
Tychicus – lets wait til all the votes are counted. While I suspect it won’t reach the 2020 level it will be far higher than previous years. And sometimes it’s better to move on especially four years later (I tell my ex-wife that but she doesn’t always listen) . dj is correct being a gracious winner (and loser) is always important.
AJ — I agree. The Democrats need to stay away from identity politics. It’s a distraction from economic issues. But the Democratic party elite don’t want to focus on economic issues as their base wants to move left and they want to stay on the Clinton/Reagan neoliberal track. The Democrats should ignore identity issues and move left on economic issues.
hrw
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Evidently Letticia got quite mouthy after the election. I don’t believe that will bode well for her…she might want to talk with Jack Smith…
Mike Davis, a staunch ally of President-elect Donald Trump, had some harsh words for New York Attorney General Letitia James during an appearance on “The Benny Show” podcast on Thursday.
“Let me just say this to Big Tish James, the New York Attorney General….I dare you to continue your lawfare against President Trump in his second term,” the founder of the Article III Project said. “Because listen here sweetheart, we’re not messing around this time. And we will put your fat a– in prison for conspiracy against rights and I promise you that.”
Davis warned James to “think long and hard before you want to violate President Trump’s constitutional rights or any other “American’s constitutional rights”
And still there are those deniers denying there was mass voter fraud in 2020…there is evidence and some still want it to die and go away? It’s just not going to go poof. Sorry it kind of reminds me of Clinton’s statement of “what difference does it make” as she was grilled on her cold hearted response to Americans murdered in Benghazi. It makes a difference…and the Dems don’t and won’t admit it of course.
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Debra – I used to favour the NDP platform advocating the withdrawal of Canada from NATO and was upset when it was removed. I’ve been reconsidering my position since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. However, the US military and CIA intervention around the world was always the mainstay for my objection to NATO. Even now, my newfound support is tested by the western elites on all sides of the spectrum support for the genocide in Israel.
Yet I don’t see the current Republican party and Trump as a solution. In his first term he actually increased US forces in Afghanistan in what was obviously a losing effort – mostly to avoid looking like a loser, he let Biden take the fall there. And it’s clear Bibi will take the election as permission to escalate. Trump’s personality also indicates to me he would rather avoid embarrassment than walk away from conflict. He’s a “bro” who’s never grown up.
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HRW @7:46, good to see you still hanging in here with the likes of us 🙂
Always appreciate your points of view for variety (which we all need).
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Hopefully there will be a cleaning out after Trump is back in the WH. FEMA workers told to skip over houses in FL with Trump signs…yep…that’s the Democratic way….I have the link but it won’t paste here. It was confirmed by the head office of FEMA…they are disturbed and investigating it further……..
A FEMA supervisor told workers in a message to “avoid homes advertising Trump” as they canvassed Lake Placid, Florida to identify residents who could qualify for federal aid, internal messages viewed by The Daily Wire reveal. The supervisor, Marn’i Washington, relayed this message both verbally and in a group chat used by the relief team, multiple government employees told The Daily Wire.
The government employees told The Daily Wire that at least 20 homes with Trump signs or flags were skipped from the end of October and into November due to the guidance, meaning they were not given the opportunity to qualify for FEMA assistance. Images shared with The Daily Wire show that houses were skipped over by the workers, who wrote in the government system messages such as: “Trump sign no entry per leadership.”
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DJ @7:10 Thanks for that. It’s really encouraging to know we have much on the domestic front in common. It will help to remember that when we’re discussing things like foreign policy where we have more disagreement. Also, it will be interesting to see if any of those things improve with Trump policies.
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NJ, if you find the link let me know. It’s sad to think such a thing would happen, but there is a lot of hate and human nature being what it is….
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NJ, what’s the source for your 8:24?
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Re @6:42 I hope Trump does lean very heavily on drug cartels and drug gangs and kingpins. They are a big national security issue in my opinion, and our porous border is a big part of that problem.
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I will say it would be a mistake (I believe) if Trump insists on his earlier publicized retribution tour once he’s in office.
Let it go.
Getting stuck (again) in all of that grievance will not be a good start at turning the page.
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(Speaking @10:54 of his real or perceived “personal” grievances).
Even if “real,” I think it only hurts the new administration to stay stuck in all of that rather than finding a fresh start. We’re all weary.
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I don’t want to see personal retributions either. I do want to see the unreasonable power of the bureaucracy broken. Starting with the CIA and FBI. These agencies no longer serve the nation well. I don’t care if they are destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up or just destroyed and perhaps replaced. It’s not a personal vendetta.
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