48 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 4-23-18

  1. Morning all. Aj is up early today. Lots of rain here. We usually get torrential downpour for an hour and then it is over. This evening it has been raining for hours, heavy, but not torrential.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Good Morning. Today will be a long one. I just need to hold on until Friday, then it will be a little easier for a few days.
    I think I am going to have to give up teaching the new agent class. It is 3 days a week for 3 hours. I have other duties that need attention. At least I am going to have to ask for some help in teaching it. We will have staff meeting this afternoon.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. God morning Jo, AJ, and all. I am off to a week of training. Monday – Thursday, I have a refresher for my license renewal. I have CEs on Friday and Saturday. I am turning in a test this morning on the 8 hrs of prework we were required to do.

    Did Mumsee get a new grandbaby?

    Liked by 3 people

  4. Good morning everyone:
    I’ve learned….
    That you should never say no to a gift from a child.

    I’m sure Mumsee knows that better than I do.

    I have a picture of Elvera q bending over to receive something from Chuck. I don’t know if that was the time, but he once picked a yellow dandelion and gave it to his mother.
    She put it in a class of water and kept it for days. Like it was a rose.

    I learned something from that. Here was a toddler, he picked something pretty for mother. He never thought of doing that for dad.
    With dad, he always wanted to help.

    Liked by 6 people

  5. Did any of you watch the funeral of Barbara Bush? I had recorded it and watched it last night. I was surprised to hear that in all her years she was not confirmed in the church until 3 years ago. Of course life happens I was not confirmed until I was 29. Moving around as much as they did, she probably wasn’t with a priest long enough for him to tell her it was time like mine did. I told him I was good. I had been christened as a baby and submerged in baptism when I was 12. He explained it wasn’t the same thing and I took the classed and was confirmed. There is hope in an Episcopal funeral.

    Yesterday the minister at the Baptist church tackled sexual sins. He told the congregation that he never meets with a woman without his assistant knowing and his wife knowing. He will only meet with her alone a few times before he brings another woman in to be with him during the councelling.
    My own thoughts are, yes, there is temptation and then there is transference. A woman isn’t feeling loved and valued and here is a man who is listening intently and acknowledging what she has to say. Yes, she is going to develop a slight “crush”. Most recognize it for what it is and move on. Others do not. Then there are men who prey on women and are just jerks. It’s hard to know. Anyway, his sermon was prompted by the news out of the Willow Creek church in Chicago? I am not familiar with it.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Kim, there are accusations about Willow Creek from several people, but investigations haven’t proven anything.


  7. That was what the sermon was about. The damage is done due to the accusation. The minister has stepped down rather than drag the church through more. I don’t keep up with “mega” churches. I am conflicted attending First Baptist right now. I feel like it is too large, yet I am contributing to its largeness. I really like the women and the Sunday School class I am attending. It’s like Biblical therapy. πŸ˜‰ (They have bought up most of the surrounding older homes and torn them down for parking. The city will not allow them to extend much more because of the fire danger)

    Liked by 2 people

  8. I remember visiting a mega church many years ago, in the 1980s — Charles Swindol was the pastor (I may be spelling that wrong, spellcheck keeps wanting to change it to Swindle) — and they actually had parking attendants directing traffic through the massive maze of their parking lot. Can’t remember why I was attending, maybe just out of curiosity one Sunday. I only went once.

    I think the size of our church is just about perfect — about 250 on most Sundays, membership I think is around 300+.

    There’s 1/2 of a female gay couple at the dog park (biracial on top of that and the women both have the same first names; I’ve not met the ‘other half,’ but both of them do attend dog park ‘people’ parties, I just haven’t been to one of those in a while). They have a beautiful blue merle Aussie named Gracie and they’re part of our regular hang-out semi-circle at the park most times I’m there. She always refers to her partner as her ‘wife’ (maybe because they have the same first names, but it’s interesting how quickly we as a culture have come to accept that terminology).

    Our style at the newspaper used to be ‘partner’ until same sex marriage became legal, now we also are told to use the terms husband and wife, whichever the couple prefers for each.

    I brought that up for no particular reason, only that I’d spent quite a bit of time talking with her yesterday at the dog park yesterday and was thinking about the terminology change that’s swept through the culture around us so quickly. Pilgrims we are.

    The gardener is supposed to connect with me today about the tree trimming (needed for painting preparations as I have 2 large trees right up near the house) and also about cutting off one of the tree roots that’s running under my patio and heading straight toward the house. Dog park worker was going to do it but I want to see if the gardener can do it for less — also seems like a job that’s more in his normal wheelhouse than the dog park worker’s.

    But I have a tricky schedule today with an afternoon community meeting on homelessness I have to cover.

    It’s foggy here again this morning. I love the fog, it keeps the temperatures nice and comfortable here along the coast.

    Kim, sounds like you’re working a lot. How are you holding up? Hoping some help can be provided for the classes to ease things up a bit.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Good morning! I am still coming into the office early to catchup. Also, Art has a client in a few minutes. I took a call from one client who wants to later reschedule for an appointment that was not even in the book.

    I have a lot of Bible study lessons to review for my volunteer work for CLI. I figure I can do that better in the office where I will not be dealing with The Boz.

    It’s very rainy here. Things are really growing overtime from all the rain.

    It was good to be back in church. Attendance for the life group hour was down, but the service itself seemed to have more people.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Morning! Janice my neighbors left for Hilton Head yesterday…this morning she texted me that it is raining. I am hoping they get to see the sun while vacationing…they have never before been to the south.
    Sun is shining here and it is warm…tonight snow moves back in!! Yippee!
    Off to see my friend for coffee….divorce is dragging out with more drama than you can shake a stick at…as I continue to ask our Lord how to be a help in the midst of it all….

    Liked by 2 people

  11. You know what the worst thing about binge watching TV shows is?

    Eventually, you run out of episodes. 😦

    We started (and finished) season one of the Netflix remake of “Lost in Space.”

    If you like SyFy, or the original show as a kid, like me, you’ll probably enjoy it too. But season one only has 10 episodes. 😦

    Liked by 2 people

  12. DJ, so you went to Chuck Swindol’s church? His was a recurring name in the Focus on the Family literature that came to my family.

    As for the accusations towards Bill Hybels’, some of the women bringing forward complaints are fairly high profile women – one at least was on the pastoral staff – and their accusations are similar in nature. When I see multiple accusations of the same behaviour recurring, I tend to think there may be some grounds for them. If the stories of the victims of the former gymnast doctor are any indication, repeated allegations by different women about the same man doing the same things should not be ignored. Surely, that falls within the two or three witnesses qualification in Scripture?

    As for investigations, may one inquire how exactly a women is supposed to give physical proof of inappropriate verbal remarks or inappropriate touching (I’m not talking about mere hugs here)? As one commenter noted on a recent story on rape in the news, the legal system is not well set up to prosecute cases of rape, which frequently are a matter of he said-she said even with physical evidence, much less other forms of sexual assault and harassment. I say this because the allegations of sexual misconduct, which also consisted of inappropriate remarks and touching, against Bill Gothard were similarly never proven by ‘independent investigation’ and he too stepped down ‘for the good of the organization’. Those who came forward about Gothard spanned several decades and many did not know each other, yet they all reported a similar pattern of behaviour, and even the little I witnessed of his interactions with young women bore out some of the traits that these women reported (the behaviour I witnessed wasn’t criminal, but it was creepy, and certainly not appropriate for a church leader). Bill Hybels’ case sounds eerily familiar.

    A very powerful man resigns amid multiple allegations, but reiterates continuously that he was just taking one for the organization. Really? When a politician goes bad, everyone drags out the saying about power corrupting. Might it not also be true of a pastor who heads a congregation of thousands, or a speaker who draws a following of thousands? That power is one reason why I question the existence of mega churches. Are we really so short of good elder material in the church that we need one man to be pastor to thousands? The elders at Jerusalem headed a church of thousands, but they did so as a team, and they had good under leaders such as Stephen. Moreover, their positions were not well paid, nor exactly filled with physical comfort, if Paul’s trials as Apostle of the Gentile church is anything to go by. If people are attending a church because of the pastor’s personality, then there is grave danger that they are idolizing the pastor.

    Such idolization is not good for the pastor. The pastor who resigned after just two years in the family church was idolized by the head deacon. The deacon positively fawned over him, giving him lavish compliments and pressuring us (with tears at one point) to humour the pastor’s wishes – the pastor wanted to get new hymnbooks, but the congregation was tiny, could ill afford the expense, and our hymnbooks were in perfectly good condition (guess who, as one of the primary musicians in the church, was the one to say it was not a good idea). The pastor, to his credit, sometimes tried to stop the idolizing, though not always – there were some mutually adulatory and congratulatory exchanges before the church that were stomach churning for their sycophancy. That pastor resigned to crash and burn. He has now disqualified himself from the ministry permanently. “Such glorying is not good” to quote Paul. Pastor A, who, if I told you his name, would not appear on any prestigious publications, often said that the greatest weakness of the modern church was its obsession with celebrity leaders.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. I visited ‘Swindol’s church’ once, out of curiosity probably. I’ve never listened to him much (I have never now or in the past … Why do I feel like I’m answering a Black List inquiry? lol)

    I tend to agree with roscuro that if you have numerous similar allegations, there could be fire with all that smoke.

    It also reminds me of a point our pastor made this week about capital punishment. Under the biblical mandate of 2 eyewitnesses, our death row population would be much lower than it actually is now. It’s really a more gracious standard than our circumstantial evidence standard for capital offenses.


  14. Roscuro, I don’t think Gothard ever had an “independent” investigation.

    I’m not a big fan of Hybels, and I don’t think megachurches, or churches with just one pastor (as opposed to a plurality of elders) are wise or even biblical.

    Several similar stories could also be “setting someone up.” I’m not saying that is the case here I’ve only read one or two articles on this and don’t know much about it), just that I consider it an option when multiple stories come out saying the same thing.


  15. I everwatched the original Lost in Space series but have been tempted to look in on this new one.

    I’ve blown through Bosch in the past and am trying to pace myself with the new series launch – we’ll see how that works


  16. And while I don’t know much about Swindol, I’m guessing some like a Gothard could simply take some of his teaching out of context to serve their own needs or ideas


  17. OK, time for the editor to weigh in (she has been biting her tongue): His name is spelled with two l’s, Charles Swindoll. I read a couple of his books 30 years ago, but it has been a while.

    Michelle, glad you survived the dragon. πŸ™‚

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Years ago I listened to Chuck Swindoll in the morning while getting myself together!! 😊 His was solid Biblical teaching…although there were times I would wince at something he said as I found myself not quite agreeing. I do that sometimes though…. 😳


  19. I love my gardener, bid is $300 for everything (trimming the 2 large trees and chopping of problem roots) – and they can do it Wednesday afternoon.

    They probably paint houses too but I’m now in a quandary with that as dog park worker is tentatively hired for now …

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Got it.

    I changed your name and removed your email from the gravatar as well. That should remove any and all indication of who you really are.

    But we know……….

    But don’t worry….. 🀐


  21. Ummmmmm….


    I’m goin’ to need you to disregard all that. Turns out your email wouldn’t disappear, so I had to delete both. Sorry.


    So for the rest of you……

    Whatever number you think you’re getting today…. add 2. πŸ™‚

    Liked by 2 people

  22. DJ @12:21, I said Chuck Swindoll was mentioned in Focus on the Family material. I never said there was any connection between him and Gothard’s IBLP.

    Cheryl, IBLP claimed to have used an outside investigator for the allegations against Gothard – but Recovering Grace disputed that: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/06/our-response-to-the-iblp-board-statement/. There are similar questions being raised about Willow Creek’s independent investigator: http://thewartburgwatch.com/2018/04/04/did-willow-creek-community-church-really-have-an-independent-investigation/. I have not spent a great deal of time on the Bill Hybels case, since I have no direct connections to the organization, but I did read a few summary articles just so I knew what was going on. In the city church, I tend to discover connections to popular Christian movements, so I like to be aware of what is going on those popular movements.


  23. Nancy Jill, I know what you mean about wincing over something a Bible teacher says.
    I found myself wincing over something yesterday’s speaker (he wasn’t the regular pastor). He was talking on Isaiah 14, the prophecy against the king of Babylon. As an Old Testament scholar, he had some very interesting things to say about the literary structure of the prophecy, pointing out it was a parody of a funeral song, such as would be sung in eulogy over leaders in the ancient world, and he had some worthy conclusions to draw from the passage. But in the course of the sermon, he said it was unlikely that verses 12 to 15 of the passage, which begins “How are you fallen, O morning star [Hebrew: Lucifer] son of the morning…”, referred to Satan. My mother and I discussed it yesterday evening and we agreed that having a double meaning in the passage, so that it is referring to both the king of Babylon and Lucifer, was entirely consistent with the double meanings found in other poetic passages in the Bible, for example, the Psalms which prophecy of Christ. Furthermore, the Isaiah 14 passage cross references with a very similar parody funeral song for the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28, and Ezekiel’s song refers directly to a fallen angel. It was disappointing to see a scholar fall for trendy modern interpretations of a Scripture passage and completely miss or ignore the other internal evidence for the traditional interpretation of the passage.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. I wonder whether the internet film providers like Amazon Prime and Netflix will change TV serials. Netflix seems to release their serials in a block, so you can watch the whole thing at once. Traditional TV series were strung out over weeks and months. The few – make that one – Netflix serial that I’ve watched came to a resolution by the end of the series, so that, even though a second season was made, the first series made a complete story. I’ve noticed traditional TV series generally end with a cliff hanger so you will tune in next season. Netflix can track viewing much more closely than TV stations can, so they do not need to make the same hooks to draw viewers back in every season. Amazon Prime has the last 9 seasons of NCIS, but I wonder whether that kind of television, with a cast of well known characters appearing in mostly unrelated episodes that are each independent stories (with the exception of the beginning and ending episodes, which generally serve to provide the hook for viewers) will gradually give way to more compact serials in the age of internet TV.


  25. Roscuro, I was thinking the CT article named the independent investigator and that he was independent and trustworthy . . . but since I’m not a fan of Hybels or the church, and since he resigned, I haven’t tried to sort out what he did or didn’t do. (In the case of someone whose work I might read or listen to, or someone my family members might support, I do try to sort it out. In this case, I’m not going to listen to him either way.) It does sound like there are true issues, though.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. I was busy writing another homeless story. Then I went out to seed & water the lawn (but the water was really blowing, it’s cold and windy out) when the editor asked for help in coming up with a better verb for the headline. Oy. When does Elvera come home?


  27. I’ve had Elvera on my mind all day…and praying for her as well….so how is TSWITW doing today? Inquiring minds want to know 😊
    Oh good…8 months until Christmas? Maybe we should get the boxes and boxes of decorations out now!! πŸŽ„ ⛄️ ⭐️

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Sounds good to me. I only put up decorations in the kinder class, nowhere else. It will be fun in a few years when I finally unpack my things and see what I have.


  29. I got a message from a friend that someone did some work on her house. They saw my picture on her frig and said that they knew me and my family. Then he gave her a big discount!

    Liked by 2 people

  30. NancyJIll @ 10:48:
    I’ve learned….
    That I can always pray for someone when I don’t have the strength to help him in any other way.

    Elvera has some swelling and drainage of sores on her right leg.
    We still plan to bring her home tomorrow.
    I have hired some ladies to come for a few hours every day to help with her. She still needs someone 24 hours.
    Not good but better than it is.

    Eight months ’till Christmas. One day ’till I get my woman back.
    The X-rays show no blood clots from the drainage she has. That was our main worry.

    Liked by 4 people

  31. Well I guess I needed Jo’s photo on my refrigerator these past two years with all the work on my house!

    So good to hear Elvera’s coming home, Chas.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. I have a couple unrelated things to pass by you all today. First, a fellow believer on Facebook posted this (I don’t know if it really happened, but I have heard similar stories in the past):

    “The moment Barbara Bush died, there was a power outage in their neighborhood. The journalist retelling this story was on the phone with her parents in Houston who experienced it. Another reporter listening to what had happened said the story brought her chills.

    Yeah … I got em, too. They came with familiarity.

    When my roommate in L.A. died, I was already back in Ga.
    He passed away in the night from a long illness and was discovered in the morning by his roommate. She called 911, and while waiting for a responder, began to ritually clean the house. As the TV kept coming on and her vacuum cleaner kept shutting off, she tried unplugging the TV but that didn’t even work. Finally, she called out … “Terry, I’ve got to get this done!”

    Everything went back to normal.

    Meanwhile, 2,000 miles away:
    During Terry’s passage, I woke up that night … positioned in a spot where a small light was catching my eye. It was outside amongst the street lights and stars but it was an odd orange color. As the light began to grow I lumbered onto my porch like a scene from Close Encounters.

    But now I could tell what it was. The transformer on an unused telephone poll was combusting. As as I got “wow” out of my mouth, the tiny fire sparked majestically and began its flame-out until with a blink of an eye it just was gone.

    Now, what came out of my mouth was …. “somebody just died.”

    A while later the phone rang from one of my L.A. friends, and I knew what they were going to say. . .

    Maybe the greater the effect that one has in life, the harder it is to cross into eternity without leaving some sort of electrical residue. Or maybe it’s when one is so loved, that those who remain behind create a reaction upon the severance of our spiritual synapsis from the deceased.

    I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. I don’t think these stories fall into the category of new age or demonic. After all, someone else who was also very loved/respected had died in an even more dramatic way causing an earthquake some 2000 years ago.”

    So what do you think of stories like this? Have any of you ever experienced anything like that?


  33. The other thing I was thinking about was . . .Neanderthals.

    It is so interesting to me that they are considered a different species from us, not in our “evolutionary line”, to evolutionists, yet were so human-like. It makes me wonder what they indeed were, and if the information we seem to have on them is correct or not.


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