Yesterday I put up the Pew Report that grouped people into eight categories – four Republican and four Democrat. Here is the questionnaire that assigns you to one of the groups.
Discover where you fit on the U.S. political spectrum by answering these 16 questions https://t.co/Af0fRE32mi
It will even show where you are within your group. I am on the right side of the 13% who are Core Conservative Republicans. Debra, I think you are probably a Country First Conservative Republican or maybe a Market Skeptical Republican. However, you know that I am hoping you turn out to be a Devout and Diverse Democrat.
Conservatives have been so busy fighting against idiocy for the last two years, it is good for Bret Stephens to remind us of our old enemy – communism.
Ever since we heard from the Raw Street Journal that American soldier LaDavid Johnson was a “traitor” after his widow was critical of Trump, I have been curious about that bastion of journalism.
After cogitating about this, I considered it a brilliant move on Muller’s part. I would have done the same thing..
“Come Monday morning, about 3:30 or s o, I’m going to haul off some people to spend 30-40 years in jail. But it’s too late in the week to start worrying about that mow. Ya’ll have a nice weekend, you hear?
Go Gamecocks.”
Kim, serious question for you. You said yesterday that states’ rights is dead. In my understanding, it is still a fully constitutional doctrine, but states don’t have the courage to draw that line in the sand: “Yes, U.S. Supreme Court, I know you said ——, but the U.S. Constitution, Tenth Amendment, says, ‘The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.’ Our state’s constitution says this: —————-. Following legal means, the state of ______ has determined ————–.”
I suspect that the reason rogue states like Texas, Arizona, or even Alabama have not managed to stand firm on any lines in the sand is that the federal government is willing to use any means at its disposal, from murder to withdrawal of federal funds to outright war. But would you agree that states legally still can–and should–draw that line in the sand when the federal government oversteps its legal boundaries?
BTW, that is a different question from whether Roy Moore has made any of his own lines in the sand with legal backing. On that, I really have no idea. But could a state determine through citizen-voted amendments to its constitution or senate-passed resolutions, or whatever is its legal process, to refuse to accept a federal ruling, even from the Supreme Court, and be within legal grounds?
Given how badly Ricky wants me to be a Democrat, I did something I normally don’t do: I took the Pew quiz—-3 times.
The first time, I left 4 questions unanswered; 3 because I thought the answers were ill-formed and/or sidestepped a fundamental issue and so could have been answered either way, and 1 question was blank because I don’t really know. The result (probably most accurate of the 3): Country First Conservative.
The second time, I answered all the questions whether or not I thought a good answer was available at all. The result: Core Conservative. (I think we can safely agree that any poll that puts Ricky and me in the same category is madly off course.)
The third time, I answered all the questions (not sure if they were exactly the same answers, but I thinks so) and at the end I self-identified as Democrat, which is not true, but I was curious to see if it would make a difference. The result: Market Skeptical Republican
Sorry Ricky, I tried. That’s the best I can do at this time. :–)
Some of us don’t fit neatly into any category. Your identity with Pat Buchanan on many issues would seem to make you a Country First Republican and I agree with you that is probably the best fit. However, you also have more than your share of market skepticism.
The heart of “Devout and Diverse Democrats” are black Christians. That would not be a bad place to be.
Cheryl, Yes. I do believe that states have rights and they are superior to the Federal Government, but we cannot exercise them in this time due to Federal Funding and a few other issues.
The KEY point with Roy Moore is that years and years ago his fellow Republicans removed him from office. This isn’t about whether he aligns with Trump or the NeoCon Republicans or the Tea Party. His LAW professor came out against him. People who know more about law than I do have rejected him.
The world is already making fun of my state over Jeff Sessions (who truly is a good man) I don’t want to give them any more ammunition with Roy Moore.
I was somewhat surprised to see the quiz tagged me as a Core Conservative, each of the three times I took it, even though I changed some answers, and the second and third times didn’t give any answer to a few questions that I thought were wrong either way. (For instance, I think that most poor people have a hard life but I don’t see more government benefits as the answer.) It put me on the skinny lefthand portion of Core Conservative, a slightly different spot each time. I’m curious what questions would have put me in a different group if I had answered differently.
‘Country First’ conservative, but honestly, those questions were tough and had me in between on most of them. So I’m not sure it’s altogether accurate. Seemed like 2 extreme views were presented and I wasn’t comfortable (in most cases) with either extreme.
But on the scale they provide, I landed on the middle-lower end of the scale, not the full-fledged COUNTRY FIRST side 🙂 But still within the general category, if a bit conflicted. 🙂
Edging toward liberal? 🙂 But more socially conservative than most others in the country. It’s all relative, of course.
And I am probably more pro-(legal) immigration than many conservatives, so I was amused by the ‘country first’ tag that included a description of being not too fond of immigrants ?
Y’all got me curious, so I took the test three more times trying to answer like a New Era Enterpriser, then a Market Skeptical Conservative and then a Country First Conservative. I was able to successfully “impersonate” a New Era Enterpriser and a Market Skeptical Conservative, but when I tried to be a Country First Conservative, I came out as a Core Conservative again.
Although I know there are legitimate uses for them, I tend to be skeptical of polls. I rarely do polls or surveys anymore. I have participated in a live survey or two in the past, and it does not turn out well. People have their own agendas and I guess I usually mess things up for them either by having strong preferences, or by challenging the entire premise of the question. I almost had to get rude with census takers to get them to leave my doorstep the last time because I answered the question of ethnicity with ‘American, just American’, which apparently was not an acceptable category for them. I don’t mind someone having their own agenda, but I do mind being co-opted to further it without my consent.
@12:52 Love Jonah Goldberg’s puppy pics, but Rich Lowery, also at National Review , has a better analysis.
At this point, a Trump failure will take down the Republican party, too.
The showdown between President Donald Trump and Senator Jeff Flake turned out to be no contest. It wasn’t Trump who was out of the GOP mainstream, but Flake……
….He is frankly anti-Trump, when Trump owns the party. Many Republican voters are fully aware of the president’s flaws, but they don’t want to hear about them constantly from Republican officeholders……
….. Flake apparently rendered himself unelectable. Perhaps he considered speaking out more important than serving, a personal choice that no one can gainsay. But if the party isn’t going to be overrun by Trump sycophants, it will need working politicians who are willing and able to better navigate these waters.
There are a few, more sensible approaches in the Senate.
There’s the Ben Sasse model — speak your mind without fear or favor, knowing that you aren’t facing a tough primary in a matter of months and, if you decide to run again, it won’t be until 2020, when the mood might have shifted.
There’s the Mitch McConnell model — hold your cards as close to the vest as possible and try to keep things from running completely off the rails so the party’s congressional majorities aren’t destroyed.
There’s the Lindsey Graham model — criticize Trump when he’s wrong and never abase yourself in his defense, but develop a relationship with the president to maximize your sway.
But it’s a mistake to assume Trump will somehow magically evaporate, leaving everything in the party as it was before he showed up. At this point, a Trump failure will take down the party, too, and may deepen and intensify the Republican civil war rather than end it.
It’s also a mistake to treat the Trump phenomenon as a fluke from which Republicans need learn no lessons. Establishment Republicans seem to believe Trump’s rise says more about the inadequacies of their voters than about the inadequacies of their own, shopworn politics…..
The Weekly Standard is not my favorite source, but I couldn’t let this one pass, from an exasperated but on point Ted Cruz:
When Ted Cruz was asked the other day about the criticism of Trump by his Senate colleagues Bob Corker and Jeff Flake, the Texan unloaded. “It’s like you’re back in junior high. . . . We’ve got a job to do, dammit, and so all of this nonsense, I got nothing to say on it. Everyone shut up and do your job is my view.”
Debra, 35 years ago I was trained to use polls. This poll shows the dilemma facing Republicans in Congress. Their base (core conservatives plus country first conservatives) are only 19% of the population. They really need to hold both the market skeptical conservatives (12%) and the New Era Enterprisers (11%). These two groups are completely at odds on most economic issues. The New Era Enterprisers generally believe in free markets and free trade and the Market Skeptical Conservatives do not. This played out in the healthcare debate. In order to bridge such a gap, it is necessary to have a leader who can honestly detail hard facts, explain tough choices and necessary sacrifices and advocate the best path forward. Unfortunately, that man left office 29 years ago.
Debra @ 4:12 Lowry has (as he often does) wimped out. Trump is on a daily basis taking down the Republican Party. He is basically a cancer on the Party. As long as he is there:
1. Republicans will be asked to defend his lies and misbehavior.
2. They will be tempted to cite the Raw Street Journal, defend “tapp” Tweets and repeat Hannity’s charge that Hillary killed Seth Rich.
3. They will lack an intelligent leader who can do the things I detailed @ 4:27.
4. They will put the US and the world at risk by having an unstable, infantile ignoramus in charge of our military.
5. They will daily weaken the respect and influence the US has around the globe and the reputation of the Republican Party here in the US.
Trump is a poorly behaved child. If all Republicans stood up to him, he might curtail some of his worst behavior or he might revert to being a Democrat. Either would be better than the current farce.
Ricky @4:27 The party does seem to be spread out. I think part of the problem may be that the Republican party has shifted too far to a Randian Libertarian right, which is not really a traditional right. Insisting on adhering to these ideas that led to the bad treaties and governmental policies that have gutted our manufacturing capacity is not going to get Republicans elected. And I can’t imagine that Reagan would try to justify this if he were alive now. How could he?
This is pure unadulterated bigotry against one of the most historically oppressed groups in the world. Asinine. Shameful. Disgusting. pic.twitter.com/iYhbq3Qtta
Debra @ 5:25 You have stated well the position of the Market Skeptics and the Country Firsters of which you are a blend. The New Era Enterprisers (I call them Libertarians and you call them Randians) would argue that if the party had really moved in their direction:
1. They would have turned Medicare into a Voucher Plan as Ryan proposed;
2. 20% of the people wouldn’t be paying 95% of income taxes; and
3. Obamacare would have been repealed without all the whining about those with pre-existing conditions having to pay slightly higher premiums for one year.
They would argue that the Republicans have been babying Trumpkins for too long with low taxes and large entitlements that they (the Libertarians) are asked to pay for.
The truth is that without effective Presidential leadership, the Republicans are paralyzed, unable to side with either group or work out compromises between the two.
The best part of Goldberg’s article (other than the dogs) is where he notes that if we were dealing entirely with adults, the fights now in Washington between Republicans would be sorting out how the Republicans are going to choose between the Libertarians and your group.
However, because we are dealing with a child, that is not what is happening. The people Trump is fighting support his policies more than many in his camp. The dividing line is participation in the personality cult. Sasse, Corker, and Flake could not remain silent in the face of dishonest, childish, bizarre and dangerous behavior by Trump. Others are happy to remain silent or become sycophants.
At the rate we are going, it won’t matter which ideological group prevails in the Republican Party, as the Democrats will be running the country for a long time, and I will be eating white chocolate.
No, no, Ricky. I didn’t say Randians run the party, (they run big corporations). I said the party has moved too far in their direction. If they ran the party they’d be running the government. And we’d all be living in Mad Max and the Thunderdome.
And you’re depending waaay too much on Democrats for your white chocolate. They’re going to disappoint. It’s what they do best. :–)
Cheryl wrote a comment last night that I didn’t see until this evening after I had stopped posting. But it was a good comment and deserves a response, and it might be an interesting topic to ponder more deeply. Here’s the comment:
Debra, why does making a whole lot of money automatically mean that the government can take all it wants? What if you had your own plans for your money (business plans, charitable plans, even wasteful plans)?
It seems to me that if the government needs more than 10% of anyone’s income, then it is the government that is overspending, not the person whose money it is. Now, if the person got the gain unjustly, that’s a whole different issue. But “He makes too much money–let’s take it away in taxes” is not good, or moral, reasoning.
We often think of the government and the money as being separate and unrelated, but they’re really not. Each one depends on the health of the other. If the money fails, the government is thrown into chaos. If the government fails, the money, as Chas likes to say, reverts to its intrinsic value. No one who cares about the welfare of the citizenry or the country wants to see either one of those scenarios, so economic and political stability are very important.
Probably no one would seriously claim that the government can or should just take or print all the money it wants or can spend. And that being the case, some kind of orderly decision making is required. In the US, diverse voters are blessed to be able to participate in that decision making through our representatives in Washington.
At some points, we have had national discussions about having some kind of ‘flat tax’, meaning that everyone would pay the same percentage on their income regardless of how much the income. I remember in the 90s there was a lot of talk about it. I took a class on Public Finance and even went to a conference in NYC to hear a panel of 4 or 5 people (which included Sen. John McCain) discuss the pros and cons. I thought there were some merits but I thought it also held the danger of being oppressive to the poor and working poor. Eventually the idea fell out of favor and went nowhere.
Currently, we’ve decided that what works best for our country is a progressive income tax. This means, that above a certain dollar amount, as your income goes up, so does the amount you pay—both in percentage and absolute dollars. And that is why those whose incomes are higher pay more. I think it is reasonably fair because whatever we do with our taxes, they should not be oppressive to anyone, and the progressive tax allows a maximum amount of freedom and economic and political stability without allowing anyone, particularly the poor, to be actually oppressed by the tax. At least in theory. However, I’m sure there must be ways it could be improved.
I also think we could use some improvement as it relates to both very large corporations and very profitable corporations. I posted a link to a long term study a few days ago that showed that almost half of Fortune 500 companies between 2009-2015 were often paying no income tax whatsoever in profitable years. Many of them were operating with negative tax rates—meaning they were getting subsidies—huge subsidies. I think this is partially because of tax loopholes and also because of governmental policies related to our trade treaties that have actually paid companies to move overseas. But that’s another issue.
Now. I’m curious about why 10% would be an appropriate taxation percentage….. :–)
Debra, You are right. If the Libertarians ran the party , they would be running the government and the three things I mentioned @ 8:47 would have happened. In what specific ways has the Republican Party moved “too far in their direction”.
Good tax theory. Here are the facts. The government collects about $1.6 trillion in personal income taxes per year. We found out yesterday the top 20% pay 95% of the taxes or about $1.52 trillion per year.
Not only do the bottom 50% of earners pay no income tax, they get $80 billion per year in Earned Income Credit refunds for income taxes they didn’t pay (camouflaged welfare). This means:
1. The 21-50th percentile pay only enough in income taxes (5% of the total or $80 billion) to counterbalance the negative income tax received in the form of EIC refunds by the bottom 50%.
2. In other words the bottom 80% of earners taken as a group contribute no net personal income tax revenue to the government.
I’m curious about why 0% is an appropriate taxation percentage for half the country. I’m even more curious why a negative percentage is an appropriate tax rate for 30 million recipients of EIC welfare. 🙂
Debra, I have no love or sympathy for corporations. Unlike Trump, I really don’t think they are overtaxed as a whole. I agree with you that we need corporate tax reform as the laws favor certain corps over others. However, it is worth noting that US corporations as a whole paid $340 billion in income taxes in 2015. In other words, they paid over 4 times as much as all of the bottom 80% of individual earners combined, even before you consider the $80 billion in EIC refunds received by the bottom 50% of individual earners.
Clearly, less than 5% of Americans know these facts. However, some of the Libertarians/Randians/New Era Enterprisers do. This is why they think the Republicans (and the Democrats) have been babying the “working class” Trumpkins and their Democratic counterparts for decades.
The Mueller investigation is interesting. On Friday around 9:00, CNN broke the story that indictments had been issued. What followed was absolutely ridiculous TV on CNN. For at least 2 hours, CNN had multiple “experts” speculate on what this meant. They speculated because they had no facts. Not the number of indictments. Not the person or persons indicted. Not the charges.
Twitter went nuts. The liberals knew Trump was about to be led out of the White House in chains. Trumpers Roger Stone, Hannity and Gorka had Twitter meltdowns. Stone’s was so foul and obscene that he has been banned from Twitter.
On Friday night, neither the New York Times nor The Washington Post even had a story on the matter. On Saturday morning, The NYT and the WP had no story. Mueller’ office would not comment. On Sunday morning, still no story. None of the press can get any information from Mueller or his people. They are competent adults.
Our executive branch is being run by a deranged toddler with retired generals for babysitters. Half of Congress (the Dems) wants to impeach the toddler and/or persuade him to sign liberal legislation. The other half of Congress, upon orders from the toddler, now worships him. I expect the next part of the story will be interesting. The Trumpers will try to slime Mueller in every way possible even as the Clintonites slimed Kenneth Starr.
For those scoring at home, save this Fox News graphic praising Mueller's biography for when they now decide he's the devil incarnate #Fraudspic.twitter.com/Uw5wxQlART
Ricky, I’m not talking about the small guys that are incorporated or use LLCs or LLPs, but
the only reason corporations have most of the money to pay in taxes is because they can afford lobbyists to pervert the course of justice through laws and treaties that allow them to aggregate wealth at the expense of their fellow citizens and American workers.
They have pushed laws that have allowed unfettered mergers and acquisitions, perverse banking structures and activities, hiding resources off-shore, outsourcing and importing labor to undercut and demoralize citizens here and keep the wages beaten down.
I’m sitting here looking at a printout of a graph created by the Heritage Foundation that compares US Productivity and the Inflation-Adjusted Hourly Wage. The graph uses calculations from the Dept. of Labor, and it starts in 1973 and goes to 2012. From 1973, Productivity progresses upward on a 35 or 40 degree angle, and in 2012 comfortably rests at an increase of over 100% . That is an increase in productivity of over 100% in the past 40 years.
The wage indicator is not so comfortable. From 1973 to 2012 the wage dropped 7%. That’s actually -7% in wages. So during the same time that corporations were enjoying massive increases in productivity, workers were laboring as hard or harder than ever for less money. In fact, the working wage has never again been as high as it was in 1973. This is not accidental; it is deliberate.
And to add insult to injury, at the end of all that activity, the people whose wages have been deliberately driven to the bottom are blamed for not paying as much tax as those corporations who have spent millions of dollars lobbying the government to ensure that their wages expense stays artificially low and corporate profits stay artificially high. I think that’s going to have to change, and not just individually, but categorically.
The Republican party has drifted too far to the Randian Right in that it has too often empowered, subsidized, and legislated for the benefit of corporations which are run by arrogant, manipulative people who do not fear God and who actively oppose Biblical principles of basic justice. And as you have indicated, the New Enterprise Republicans are young. Many of them are also too young or too ignorant to remember that it was ever any different, and that those ideas that now hold sway in the party were once despised by decent government and business leaders. That needs to change too.
rw: Remember, Mueller was running the FBI when the whole Uranium One investigation got white-washed. Uranium One and the dossier are deeply interwoven. He was also too close to Comey.
Unfortunately, Mueller is too much of a player himself to be the impartial, objective investigator that he’s suposed to be. Such is politics…
Debra, We saw a few months ago that new legal immigrants from India are making an average of almost $100,000 a year in the US. Immigrants from South Africa and countries from all over the world are doing better than American Trumpkins. Many young New Era Enterprisers are also doing well, paying taxes to subsidize Democrats and Trumpkins. Why aren’t the corporations taking THEIR money?
Virtually everyone is doing well except for:
A. A huge group of Democrats who sit around having illegitimate kids blaming racism and corporations for their problems; and
B. A huge group of Trumpkins who sit around blaming Mexicans, the Chinese and corporations for their problems.
If you read Hillbilly Elegy or any other book that details life in the inner city or Trumpland, you will not find corporations putting a gun to the heads of Democrats and Trumpkins forcing them to loaf at work, fake disability, get high, have illegitimate children, get divorced, spend their money on tattoos, fail to improve their skills and fail to move where the jobs are.
The hard working young people who are already subsidizing these Democrats and Trumpers would howl at the suggestion that they are the ones who are “ignorant”. They would also strongly question whether sloth is a Biblical value.
I am sure that I share the extreme skepticism of Tychicus, AJ and others when I see that Hillary, Podesta and Wasserman-Schultz deny knowing the Dems paid for the dossier.
I remember both the Watergate and Lewinsky scandals. Nixon made the huge mistake of the cover-up, and he did not raise scores of ridiculous distractions to impede the investigation and he was forced to resign.
Living in a time when Americans were dumber and more easily distracted, Clinton’s crew constantly tried to attack Starr, his investigators, witnesses, the press, and unrelated parties in an attempt to camouflage Clinton’s crimes. He survived.
Living in a time when Americans are dumber still and will believe anything, The Trump Cult will follow the Clinton model, with the added bonus that Trump is a living, breathing human distraction.
October 28 at 6:42 PM
Leaders of a historic Episcopal church in Alexandria have decided to remove a pair of plaques from its sanctuary that memorialize two of their most prominent parishioners: George Washington and Robert E. Lee.
Yes, and in a time before museums Mary Custis Lee preserved all of the Washington paintings and artifacts, including the forks and knives he used in the field which Robert then used throughout The War.
It was also Robert’s father, Lighthorse Harry Lee who wrote Washington’s epitaph, “First in war, first in peace and first in the hearts of his countrymen.”
Near the church in Alexandria, Robert (as a teenager) met an aging Lafayette who wanted to pay his respects to the widow and children of his former comrade in arms under Washington.
Wandering Views 
Is it true that Robert Muller has arrested himself?
Maybe Hillary?
Or Putin?
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Yesterday I put up the Pew Report that grouped people into eight categories – four Republican and four Democrat. Here is the questionnaire that assigns you to one of the groups.
It will even show where you are within your group. I am on the right side of the 13% who are Core Conservative Republicans. Debra, I think you are probably a Country First Conservative Republican or maybe a Market Skeptical Republican. However, you know that I am hoping you turn out to be a Devout and Diverse Democrat.
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Conservatives have been so busy fighting against idiocy for the last two years, it is good for Bret Stephens to remind us of our old enemy – communism.
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Ever since we heard from the Raw Street Journal that American soldier LaDavid Johnson was a “traitor” after his widow was critical of Trump, I have been curious about that bastion of journalism.
Here is another sample of their “work”.
Those people seem to believe that someone other than the Islamic terrorists of Al Qaeda were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Idiocy abounds.
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After cogitating about this, I considered it a brilliant move on Muller’s part. I would have done the same thing..
“Come Monday morning, about 3:30 or s o, I’m going to haul off some people to spend 30-40 years in jail. But it’s too late in the week to start worrying about that mow. Ya’ll have a nice weekend, you hear?
Go Gamecocks.”
😆
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I’m right in the middle of the Core Conservatives.
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The charge?
I’ll give you a hint.
It doesn’t have anything to do with Russian money laundering or destroying evidence.
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Chas, Tychicus and I plan on having a nice weekend. Our team gets to play against Baylor.
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I am a New Era Enterpriser along with 11% of the population.
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Congratulations, Kim. That is a young person’s category. Many of my son’s friends and the 20-30 somethings I taught in church are with you.
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Kim, serious question for you. You said yesterday that states’ rights is dead. In my understanding, it is still a fully constitutional doctrine, but states don’t have the courage to draw that line in the sand: “Yes, U.S. Supreme Court, I know you said ——, but the U.S. Constitution, Tenth Amendment, says, ‘The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.’ Our state’s constitution says this: —————-. Following legal means, the state of ______ has determined ————–.”
I suspect that the reason rogue states like Texas, Arizona, or even Alabama have not managed to stand firm on any lines in the sand is that the federal government is willing to use any means at its disposal, from murder to withdrawal of federal funds to outright war. But would you agree that states legally still can–and should–draw that line in the sand when the federal government oversteps its legal boundaries?
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BTW, that is a different question from whether Roy Moore has made any of his own lines in the sand with legal backing. On that, I really have no idea. But could a state determine through citizen-voted amendments to its constitution or senate-passed resolutions, or whatever is its legal process, to refuse to accept a federal ruling, even from the Supreme Court, and be within legal grounds?
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Given how badly Ricky wants me to be a Democrat, I did something I normally don’t do: I took the Pew quiz—-3 times.
The first time, I left 4 questions unanswered; 3 because I thought the answers were ill-formed and/or sidestepped a fundamental issue and so could have been answered either way, and 1 question was blank because I don’t really know. The result (probably most accurate of the 3): Country First Conservative.
The second time, I answered all the questions whether or not I thought a good answer was available at all. The result: Core Conservative. (I think we can safely agree that any poll that puts Ricky and me in the same category is madly off course.)
The third time, I answered all the questions (not sure if they were exactly the same answers, but I thinks so) and at the end I self-identified as Democrat, which is not true, but I was curious to see if it would make a difference. The result: Market Skeptical Republican
Sorry Ricky, I tried. That’s the best I can do at this time. :–)
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Debra,
Some of us don’t fit neatly into any category. Your identity with Pat Buchanan on many issues would seem to make you a Country First Republican and I agree with you that is probably the best fit. However, you also have more than your share of market skepticism.
The heart of “Devout and Diverse Democrats” are black Christians. That would not be a bad place to be.
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Cheryl, Yes. I do believe that states have rights and they are superior to the Federal Government, but we cannot exercise them in this time due to Federal Funding and a few other issues.
The KEY point with Roy Moore is that years and years ago his fellow Republicans removed him from office. This isn’t about whether he aligns with Trump or the NeoCon Republicans or the Tea Party. His LAW professor came out against him. People who know more about law than I do have rejected him.
The world is already making fun of my state over Jeff Sessions (who truly is a good man) I don’t want to give them any more ammunition with Roy Moore.
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Jonah Goldberg’s latest column explains why we call it a personality cult and not a political movement.
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To the right of core conservatives.
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I was somewhat surprised to see the quiz tagged me as a Core Conservative, each of the three times I took it, even though I changed some answers, and the second and third times didn’t give any answer to a few questions that I thought were wrong either way. (For instance, I think that most poor people have a hard life but I don’t see more government benefits as the answer.) It put me on the skinny lefthand portion of Core Conservative, a slightly different spot each time. I’m curious what questions would have put me in a different group if I had answered differently.
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‘Country First’ conservative, but honestly, those questions were tough and had me in between on most of them. So I’m not sure it’s altogether accurate. Seemed like 2 extreme views were presented and I wasn’t comfortable (in most cases) with either extreme.
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But I could see truths in both
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But on the scale they provide, I landed on the middle-lower end of the scale, not the full-fledged COUNTRY FIRST side 🙂 But still within the general category, if a bit conflicted. 🙂
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I was slightly left of “mixed”
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Edging toward liberal? 🙂 But more socially conservative than most others in the country. It’s all relative, of course.
And I am probably more pro-(legal) immigration than many conservatives, so I was amused by the ‘country first’ tag that included a description of being not too fond of immigrants ?
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Y’all got me curious, so I took the test three more times trying to answer like a New Era Enterpriser, then a Market Skeptical Conservative and then a Country First Conservative. I was able to successfully “impersonate” a New Era Enterpriser and a Market Skeptical Conservative, but when I tried to be a Country First Conservative, I came out as a Core Conservative again.
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They’ve got your number Ricky. :–)
Although I know there are legitimate uses for them, I tend to be skeptical of polls. I rarely do polls or surveys anymore. I have participated in a live survey or two in the past, and it does not turn out well. People have their own agendas and I guess I usually mess things up for them either by having strong preferences, or by challenging the entire premise of the question. I almost had to get rude with census takers to get them to leave my doorstep the last time because I answered the question of ethnicity with ‘American, just American’, which apparently was not an acceptable category for them. I don’t mind someone having their own agenda, but I do mind being co-opted to further it without my consent.
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@12:52 Love Jonah Goldberg’s puppy pics, but Rich Lowery, also at National Review , has a better analysis.
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I gave up on the test, I kept wanting to argue with the questions and concluded I’m just apolitical.
Hey, wait, does that make me Independent? 🙂
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The Weekly Standard is not my favorite source, but I couldn’t let this one pass, from an exasperated but on point Ted Cruz:
I’m sure he speaks for us all. :–)
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Michelle, that was my problem. There were basically 17 essay topics! And we’re given simple binary choices. Not fair! :–)
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Debra, 35 years ago I was trained to use polls. This poll shows the dilemma facing Republicans in Congress. Their base (core conservatives plus country first conservatives) are only 19% of the population. They really need to hold both the market skeptical conservatives (12%) and the New Era Enterprisers (11%). These two groups are completely at odds on most economic issues. The New Era Enterprisers generally believe in free markets and free trade and the Market Skeptical Conservatives do not. This played out in the healthcare debate. In order to bridge such a gap, it is necessary to have a leader who can honestly detail hard facts, explain tough choices and necessary sacrifices and advocate the best path forward. Unfortunately, that man left office 29 years ago.
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The question of whether you consider yourself an independent is at the end.
But then it also asks, Ok, but do you *lean* Dem or Rep?
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Debra @ 4:12 Lowry has (as he often does) wimped out. Trump is on a daily basis taking down the Republican Party. He is basically a cancer on the Party. As long as he is there:
1. Republicans will be asked to defend his lies and misbehavior.
2. They will be tempted to cite the Raw Street Journal, defend “tapp” Tweets and repeat Hannity’s charge that Hillary killed Seth Rich.
3. They will lack an intelligent leader who can do the things I detailed @ 4:27.
4. They will put the US and the world at risk by having an unstable, infantile ignoramus in charge of our military.
5. They will daily weaken the respect and influence the US has around the globe and the reputation of the Republican Party here in the US.
Trump is a poorly behaved child. If all Republicans stood up to him, he might curtail some of his worst behavior or he might revert to being a Democrat. Either would be better than the current farce.
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Hillary may not have to walk alone…
https://www.dcstatesman.com/guess-also-going-hillary-clinton-phony-trump-dossier/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=dcs&utm_campaign=n102817
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My wife: Everyone you despise seems to be joining forces. Now all they need is Jane Fonda and Barry Switzer.
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Ricky @4:27 The party does seem to be spread out. I think part of the problem may be that the Republican party has shifted too far to a Randian Libertarian right, which is not really a traditional right. Insisting on adhering to these ideas that led to the bad treaties and governmental policies that have gutted our manufacturing capacity is not going to get Republicans elected. And I can’t imagine that Reagan would try to justify this if he were alive now. How could he?
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We’re not a protected ethnic group, too pale and white I guess.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/10/newsweek-whats-up-with-all-these-loudmouth-conservative-irish-americans/
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Debra @ 5:25 You have stated well the position of the Market Skeptics and the Country Firsters of which you are a blend. The New Era Enterprisers (I call them Libertarians and you call them Randians) would argue that if the party had really moved in their direction:
1. They would have turned Medicare into a Voucher Plan as Ryan proposed;
2. 20% of the people wouldn’t be paying 95% of income taxes; and
3. Obamacare would have been repealed without all the whining about those with pre-existing conditions having to pay slightly higher premiums for one year.
They would argue that the Republicans have been babying Trumpkins for too long with low taxes and large entitlements that they (the Libertarians) are asked to pay for.
The truth is that without effective Presidential leadership, the Republicans are paralyzed, unable to side with either group or work out compromises between the two.
The best part of Goldberg’s article (other than the dogs) is where he notes that if we were dealing entirely with adults, the fights now in Washington between Republicans would be sorting out how the Republicans are going to choose between the Libertarians and your group.
However, because we are dealing with a child, that is not what is happening. The people Trump is fighting support his policies more than many in his camp. The dividing line is participation in the personality cult. Sasse, Corker, and Flake could not remain silent in the face of dishonest, childish, bizarre and dangerous behavior by Trump. Others are happy to remain silent or become sycophants.
At the rate we are going, it won’t matter which ideological group prevails in the Republican Party, as the Democrats will be running the country for a long time, and I will be eating white chocolate.
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No, no, Ricky. I didn’t say Randians run the party, (they run big corporations). I said the party has moved too far in their direction. If they ran the party they’d be running the government. And we’d all be living in Mad Max and the Thunderdome.
And you’re depending waaay too much on Democrats for your white chocolate. They’re going to disappoint. It’s what they do best. :–)
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Cheryl wrote a comment last night that I didn’t see until this evening after I had stopped posting. But it was a good comment and deserves a response, and it might be an interesting topic to ponder more deeply. Here’s the comment:
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Cheryl, here are some of my thoughts on taxation:
We often think of the government and the money as being separate and unrelated, but they’re really not. Each one depends on the health of the other. If the money fails, the government is thrown into chaos. If the government fails, the money, as Chas likes to say, reverts to its intrinsic value. No one who cares about the welfare of the citizenry or the country wants to see either one of those scenarios, so economic and political stability are very important.
Probably no one would seriously claim that the government can or should just take or print all the money it wants or can spend. And that being the case, some kind of orderly decision making is required. In the US, diverse voters are blessed to be able to participate in that decision making through our representatives in Washington.
At some points, we have had national discussions about having some kind of ‘flat tax’, meaning that everyone would pay the same percentage on their income regardless of how much the income. I remember in the 90s there was a lot of talk about it. I took a class on Public Finance and even went to a conference in NYC to hear a panel of 4 or 5 people (which included Sen. John McCain) discuss the pros and cons. I thought there were some merits but I thought it also held the danger of being oppressive to the poor and working poor. Eventually the idea fell out of favor and went nowhere.
Currently, we’ve decided that what works best for our country is a progressive income tax. This means, that above a certain dollar amount, as your income goes up, so does the amount you pay—both in percentage and absolute dollars. And that is why those whose incomes are higher pay more. I think it is reasonably fair because whatever we do with our taxes, they should not be oppressive to anyone, and the progressive tax allows a maximum amount of freedom and economic and political stability without allowing anyone, particularly the poor, to be actually oppressed by the tax. At least in theory. However, I’m sure there must be ways it could be improved.
I also think we could use some improvement as it relates to both very large corporations and very profitable corporations. I posted a link to a long term study a few days ago that showed that almost half of Fortune 500 companies between 2009-2015 were often paying no income tax whatsoever in profitable years. Many of them were operating with negative tax rates—meaning they were getting subsidies—huge subsidies. I think this is partially because of tax loopholes and also because of governmental policies related to our trade treaties that have actually paid companies to move overseas. But that’s another issue.
Now. I’m curious about why 10% would be an appropriate taxation percentage….. :–)
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Debra, You are right. If the Libertarians ran the party , they would be running the government and the three things I mentioned @ 8:47 would have happened. In what specific ways has the Republican Party moved “too far in their direction”.
Good tax theory. Here are the facts. The government collects about $1.6 trillion in personal income taxes per year. We found out yesterday the top 20% pay 95% of the taxes or about $1.52 trillion per year.
Not only do the bottom 50% of earners pay no income tax, they get $80 billion per year in Earned Income Credit refunds for income taxes they didn’t pay (camouflaged welfare). This means:
1. The 21-50th percentile pay only enough in income taxes (5% of the total or $80 billion) to counterbalance the negative income tax received in the form of EIC refunds by the bottom 50%.
2. In other words the bottom 80% of earners taken as a group contribute no net personal income tax revenue to the government.
I’m curious about why 0% is an appropriate taxation percentage for half the country. I’m even more curious why a negative percentage is an appropriate tax rate for 30 million recipients of EIC welfare. 🙂
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Debra, I have no love or sympathy for corporations. Unlike Trump, I really don’t think they are overtaxed as a whole. I agree with you that we need corporate tax reform as the laws favor certain corps over others. However, it is worth noting that US corporations as a whole paid $340 billion in income taxes in 2015. In other words, they paid over 4 times as much as all of the bottom 80% of individual earners combined, even before you consider the $80 billion in EIC refunds received by the bottom 50% of individual earners.
Clearly, less than 5% of Americans know these facts. However, some of the Libertarians/Randians/New Era Enterprisers do. This is why they think the Republicans (and the Democrats) have been babying the “working class” Trumpkins and their Democratic counterparts for decades.
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The Mueller investigation is interesting. On Friday around 9:00, CNN broke the story that indictments had been issued. What followed was absolutely ridiculous TV on CNN. For at least 2 hours, CNN had multiple “experts” speculate on what this meant. They speculated because they had no facts. Not the number of indictments. Not the person or persons indicted. Not the charges.
Twitter went nuts. The liberals knew Trump was about to be led out of the White House in chains. Trumpers Roger Stone, Hannity and Gorka had Twitter meltdowns. Stone’s was so foul and obscene that he has been banned from Twitter.
On Friday night, neither the New York Times nor The Washington Post even had a story on the matter. On Saturday morning, The NYT and the WP had no story. Mueller’ office would not comment. On Sunday morning, still no story. None of the press can get any information from Mueller or his people. They are competent adults.
Our executive branch is being run by a deranged toddler with retired generals for babysitters. Half of Congress (the Dems) wants to impeach the toddler and/or persuade him to sign liberal legislation. The other half of Congress, upon orders from the toddler, now worships him. I expect the next part of the story will be interesting. The Trumpers will try to slime Mueller in every way possible even as the Clintonites slimed Kenneth Starr.
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Ricky, I’m not talking about the small guys that are incorporated or use LLCs or LLPs, but
the only reason corporations have most of the money to pay in taxes is because they can afford lobbyists to pervert the course of justice through laws and treaties that allow them to aggregate wealth at the expense of their fellow citizens and American workers.
They have pushed laws that have allowed unfettered mergers and acquisitions, perverse banking structures and activities, hiding resources off-shore, outsourcing and importing labor to undercut and demoralize citizens here and keep the wages beaten down.
I’m sitting here looking at a printout of a graph created by the Heritage Foundation that compares US Productivity and the Inflation-Adjusted Hourly Wage. The graph uses calculations from the Dept. of Labor, and it starts in 1973 and goes to 2012. From 1973, Productivity progresses upward on a 35 or 40 degree angle, and in 2012 comfortably rests at an increase of over 100% . That is an increase in productivity of over 100% in the past 40 years.
The wage indicator is not so comfortable. From 1973 to 2012 the wage dropped 7%. That’s actually -7% in wages. So during the same time that corporations were enjoying massive increases in productivity, workers were laboring as hard or harder than ever for less money. In fact, the working wage has never again been as high as it was in 1973. This is not accidental; it is deliberate.
And to add insult to injury, at the end of all that activity, the people whose wages have been deliberately driven to the bottom are blamed for not paying as much tax as those corporations who have spent millions of dollars lobbying the government to ensure that their wages expense stays artificially low and corporate profits stay artificially high. I think that’s going to have to change, and not just individually, but categorically.
The Republican party has drifted too far to the Randian Right in that it has too often empowered, subsidized, and legislated for the benefit of corporations which are run by arrogant, manipulative people who do not fear God and who actively oppose Biblical principles of basic justice. And as you have indicated, the New Enterprise Republicans are young. Many of them are also too young or too ignorant to remember that it was ever any different, and that those ideas that now hold sway in the party were once despised by decent government and business leaders. That needs to change too.
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rw: Remember, Mueller was running the FBI when the whole Uranium One investigation got white-washed. Uranium One and the dossier are deeply interwoven. He was also too close to Comey.
Unfortunately, Mueller is too much of a player himself to be the impartial, objective investigator that he’s suposed to be. Such is politics…
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Debra, We saw a few months ago that new legal immigrants from India are making an average of almost $100,000 a year in the US. Immigrants from South Africa and countries from all over the world are doing better than American Trumpkins. Many young New Era Enterprisers are also doing well, paying taxes to subsidize Democrats and Trumpkins. Why aren’t the corporations taking THEIR money?
Virtually everyone is doing well except for:
A. A huge group of Democrats who sit around having illegitimate kids blaming racism and corporations for their problems; and
B. A huge group of Trumpkins who sit around blaming Mexicans, the Chinese and corporations for their problems.
If you read Hillbilly Elegy or any other book that details life in the inner city or Trumpland, you will not find corporations putting a gun to the heads of Democrats and Trumpkins forcing them to loaf at work, fake disability, get high, have illegitimate children, get divorced, spend their money on tattoos, fail to improve their skills and fail to move where the jobs are.
The hard working young people who are already subsidizing these Democrats and Trumpers would howl at the suggestion that they are the ones who are “ignorant”. They would also strongly question whether sloth is a Biblical value.
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Tychicus, Please explain how “Uranium One” and “the dossier” are “deeply interwoven”.
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For everyone’s information, here is a pretty balanced article on what we currently know about “the dossier”.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/357581-clinton-trump-and-the-russia-dossier-what-you-need-to-know
I am sure that I share the extreme skepticism of Tychicus, AJ and others when I see that Hillary, Podesta and Wasserman-Schultz deny knowing the Dems paid for the dossier.
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For everyone’s information, here is a detailed article about “Uranium One”.
https://lawfareblog.com/unpacking-uranium-one-hype-and-law
I remember both the Watergate and Lewinsky scandals. Nixon made the huge mistake of the cover-up, and he did not raise scores of ridiculous distractions to impede the investigation and he was forced to resign.
Living in a time when Americans were dumber and more easily distracted, Clinton’s crew constantly tried to attack Starr, his investigators, witnesses, the press, and unrelated parties in an attempt to camouflage Clinton’s crimes. He survived.
Living in a time when Americans are dumber still and will believe anything, The Trump Cult will follow the Clinton model, with the added bonus that Trump is a living, breathing human distraction.
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Right on cue:
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From “The Washington Post” via Drudge:
By Lori Aratani
October 28 at 6:42 PM
Leaders of a historic Episcopal church in Alexandria have decided to remove a pair of plaques from its sanctuary that memorialize two of their most prominent parishioners: George Washington and Robert E. Lee.
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Washington and Lee. The two will always be linked.
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They were related by marriage.
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Yes, and in a time before museums Mary Custis Lee preserved all of the Washington paintings and artifacts, including the forks and knives he used in the field which Robert then used throughout The War.
It was also Robert’s father, Lighthorse Harry Lee who wrote Washington’s epitaph, “First in war, first in peace and first in the hearts of his countrymen.”
Near the church in Alexandria, Robert (as a teenager) met an aging Lafayette who wanted to pay his respects to the widow and children of his former comrade in arms under Washington.
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And there they are together in one of my favorite buildings.
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Not many times someone gets 57 on the Politics “Thread.
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