58 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 6-20-17

  1. From yesterday, “small town” surrounded by a city doesn’t count.
    Falls Church is a tiny little village in Virginia.
    It is surrounded by Fairfax County and Arlington.
    And I once had a Falls Church address, but lived in Fairfax County.
    Elvera’s home, Brushy Creek, SC was a genuine small town. Between Greenville and Spartanburg.

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  2. I will carry this over from yesterday.
    It has become quite popular to re-write history and revise it to fit today’s agenda. I first noticed the discrepancy between getting my undergraduate degree in History and English in the 90’s and going back to get my graduate degree in 1999-2001 time period.
    We know longer respect our Founding Fathers. We want to show that they were mere mortals with feet of clay (which they were) but we want to focus on how bad they were in other areas and push an agenda forward that women were just as or more important—they were, but in a different sense than what we want it to be now.
    Not too long ago Michelle posted something about how authors are writing women’s historical fiction now to make it seem like the female characters were more like women are now. Just recently one of my favorite authors released a new book. It is set in London in the 1870’s and the woman didn’t want to marry and when she was “compromised” by being found alone with a man(no sex) and forced by society to marry him she insisted that “obey” be left out of the wedding vows. The groom agreed and also sought advice of an attorney so that she would be able to retain her rights to her own money. I am fairly certain I said “obey” the first time I got married a hundred plus years later. I have never given much thought to retaining my own property. (Now I do believe a woman should have a little “egg money” tucked away someplace, but not a fortune…just enough that if she wants to get her toes painted she doesn’t have to answer to anyone about it or if she wants to surprise her husband with a gift he won’t know exactly how much she spent).
    So, in answer to Kizzie’s post last night about Robert E. Lee. I question the article and the motive. I would like to know the source documents and the author’s agenda in writing it. Question everything you read. Someone has an agenda and “they” at subtly changing our history.

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  3. Regarding Cheryl’s post about a Rite of Christian Burial or a celebration of life, I will share the absolute BEST funeral I ever attended.
    The Deceased was 80 plus years old. He was a self described raconteur, an architect, and an artist. He planned his own funeral, left detailed instructions, and penned the program.
    He had a graveside service of Rite I from the Book of Common Prayer. After the seriousness of Rite One, his granddaughter spoke, then Joe Cain’s Merry Widows arrived dressed in Widow’s Weeds and Weeping Veils to proclaim each of them were his favorite wife and he assuredly loved her best. Once the wailing and bemoaning (and laughter) was over, we were all invited across the street from the cemetery where tents had been set up in a parking lot and a full meal and open bar were provided.
    He now has a great grandson who is his namesake and we can only hope and pray he turns out as good a man as his great grandfather was.

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  4. Elvera has always had a separate account. But all of our accounts have been joint, including herds. But I always paid the bills from my account.
    The family fortune is in her name. My former Wells Fargo advisor said that this is common.

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  5. Yes, I too get tired of movies and novels that have characters acting like 21st Century Liberals. But as for leaving out the “obey” part of the wedding ceremony, there is at least one actual instance. Laura Ingalls Wilder didn’t use the word in her wedding vows, according to her story in Those Happy Golden Years, Chapter 31:

    Laura was silent again. Then she summoned all her courage and said, “Almanzo, I must ask you something. Do you want me to promise to obey you?”

    Soberly he answered, “Of course not. I know it is in the wedding ceremony, but it is only something women say. …”

    “Well, I am not going to say I will obey you,” said Laura. … “But I can not make a promise I will not keep. …”

    Later, Almanzo assures her that the minister doesn’t use the word “obey” in the ceremony, so it must have been a more common practice in the 1880s than we realize.

    And since Laura and Almanzo remained married until he died at age 92, I think it was okay that she didn’t say “I promise to obey.”

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  6. Peter, I will trust you on that. It has been quite a while since I read the Little House books. Women have always been a great part of history. I have recently changed my views on some things that I have experienced. I always thought I was never discriminated against in the work force by being a woman. I figured that when I worked for Guy 2009-2012 I was a “victim” of the economy. Working for him 2015 to 2017 changed my view. He gave a college intern (male) more respect than he gave me. He gave him more opportunity to learn than he gave me. I also watched him interview two HIGHLY qualified women who wanted to be commercial agents and find a reason not to hire either one.
    By the way, have I told you what it is like not to dread the next day? Have I told you that my phone hasn’t rung but once today? It was my stepmother. I am meeting her for lunch. I have a 1pm conference call, but I can handle that from my car if I have to.

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  7. I had a dream that I had just learned I’d inherited (from a long-ago cousin of my dad’s) the most perfect, sweet, in mint condition, very white and airy, 2-story Craftsman house from the early 1900s right on the ocean and with a view near where I live now. It was being rented out to a young couple who liked to ride their bikes along the water, but after they moved out, I decided I’d sell my house and move in there and I’d be “set”. Nice dream. 🙂

    I was trying to remember the name of the little farming town my dad grew up in — I’ll have to double check his birth certificate. Started with a G — Grennel, something like that. It was near Spencer (small world Kevin) and teeny-tiny.

    It also reminds me I need to get my Ancestry account fixed, I think it’s linked to an old email that’s down now. I haven’t had a subscription to Amazon for quite some time but I believe your family tree remains there so you can start working on it again when you’re ready.

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  8. Peter, the “Little House” books don’t always reflect what actually happened. I don’t know whether or not Laura said “obey,” but it may be that by the time the books were written it was going out of fashion, or her feminist daughter (who did much of the writing) thought that would be a nice touch.

    From what I have read, including the recent book of Laura’s letters, the books were fairly close to reality, but definitely not completely accurate. For example, another couple actually lived with the family during “the long winter”! The most famous discrepancy is that Laura had a baby brother who died at a few months old but was not mentioned in the books, but quite a few elements were fictionalized for the story.

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  9. I am thankful to be aware of the relief Kim is feeling over the silent phone. It is a bit like that on the day after tax deadline in the office.

    This morning I have been watching a training video and filling out forms to be a volunteer reviewer of Bible study lessons through Christian Library International. It is suppose to take about two hours per week. I look forward to starting.

    I hope Michelle and the VBS group are staying cool enough. The weather is horribly muggy here. I go outside and start sweating. It rained again last night. Misquitos are really bad, too. The plants are thriving as our consolation prize for enduring mugginess.

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  10. Chas, a small town surrounded by a city “doesn’t count” for what?

    After my father died, my mother and I and two younger siblings moved back down to the Phoenix area (Dad had been the one who wanted to leave), only instead of living in the city proper we moved to Peoria. Glendale sat between Phoenix and Peoria, and at least in my knowledge, Glendale had always been a decent-sized city in its own right. (Now it’s nearing a quarter million, but it had nearly 100,000 then.) But Peoria went to a small country town to a medium-sized city as Phoenix’s nearness converted it to a suburb. One day we left for church . . . and had to wait while a shepherd herded a flock of sheep across the road!

    As a small country town it had its own “downtown” area, but as its population grew it gained a new one. But Peoria is now a fair-sized city. We moved there in 1984, and the numbers easily show how many other people moved there between 1970 and 1990. We took a special census in 1985 (I was one of the census takers), but I can’t find the numbers from that. When my mom had a heart attack in the late 1990s, one day my stepfather and I went out for supper, and we went to an area that had been “way out of town” (empty fields) when I lived there, and was now expansive shopping areas, mile after mile of pavement and restaurants and the like. It was mind-boggling.

    Here are the numbers that show how rapid the growth was:

    1960 2,593
    1970 4,792
    1980 12,307
    1990 50,618
    2000 110.950
    2010 154,065

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  11. It is hot and muggy here as well. Temp is seventy nine and the humidity is sixty nine. Surprised we are still functioning. Then again, maybe I am not.

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  12. It’s much nicer here today. Much less humid, and no t-storms and torrential downpours. 🙂

    I would have punched a hole in the wall and destroyed that alarm clock 12 years, 11 months, and 28 days ago. It doesn’t take long to patch a hole and paint over it. 🙂

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  13. Cheryl, @ 1:04
    Count for small town. I used to live in the tiny town of Falls Church, Va. Population 16,500 in 2014.

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  14. When I moved to Moscow, the population of that large town was eleven thousand. Now it is a medium town with a population of twenty five thousand. I try not to go there except to visit my dad. He lives on the edge, closest to the mountain, so that is easy.

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  15. I think Chas’s point isn’t that it doesn’t count as a city in its own right, but that it doesn’t qualify as a “small town”. If it’s surrounded by other cities then it looks more like part of the big city than it does a small town surrounded by countryside.

    Which brings to mind Sierra Madre, California, where my wife lived when we met. It’s up against mountains on the north. Otherwise it’s surrounded by Pasadena and Arcadia, which are in turn part of the extended Los Angeles megalopolis. But somehow when you drive down Sierra Madre’s main street (Sierra Madre Blvd.) it looks and feels like a small town. I’ve never quite figured out how it retains an identity like that.

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  16. I like it just where I am. I like to travel and see other places, but I like where I live.
    We are having drizzling rain. I hear Jim Cantore is in New Orleans. The weather people get pure giddy over a storm. WeatherPaul is on duty as well. I don’t have anything to worry about. He helped to secure Naval Hospital Pensacola during Ivan and even had time to help deliver a baby to two. (I think his secret fantasy is to go hang out with Jim C.) You know, the barometric pressure drops in a hurricane and that somehow sends otherwise sane, healthy women into labor. Women, especially, have to be extra careful around hurricanes. You are either going to conceive or deliver. I kind of understand one of those things happening but not the other. “Ain’t nobody got time for that”.

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  17. Now because we have often discussed how you should pronounce New Orleans –Hey Tourists! The locals are secretly laughing at you if you say Nawwww Lenz. I thought I would go back to an older, more authoritative person to see how he pronounced it.

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  18. Laura Ingalls Wilder was by all accounts a strong and determined woman in her own right, there is no reason to think that the story about not saying the word ‘obey’ was added in by her daughter. I’m wouldn’t be so sure Rose Wilder Lane did much editing at all of her mother’s work – ‘The First Four Years’, which was left unfinished at Laura’s death, should read like the others if Rose was the one who did the editing, but there is a great difference in literary quality between that last book and the other ones, which would indicate that Laura was the real literary genius. Also, Laura’s deceased infant brother is not mentioned in the books, but I realized when I read the books as a young girl that Laura left a several year gap between On the Banks of Plum Creek and On the Shores of Silver Lake, and I now know that is the period in which he would have been born. Certainly, the books are a fictionalized account as real life doesn’t make for good narration, but one gets a sense of real events and experiences behind the stories. I remember the context of Laura’s request to Almanzo about the marriage service, and the minister who married them was said to have disagreed with the Apostle Paul about the word ‘obey’, so it wasn’t just Laura who was somewhat liberal in her thinking. The feminist movement had already had its beginnings in the late 1700s, with Mary Wollstonecraft’s A Vindication of the Rights of Women and even men in the Victorian era, such as the Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen who criticized how women were confined to the home in plays such as The Doll’s House, were starting to take up the subject by Laura’s day. Dickens, in writing about America in the 1840s, made observations about the educated and socially active women in America, among whom would have been Sarah Josepha Buell Hale, the editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book. The Suffragette movement of the early 1900s did not happen out of the blue, there was a build up toward it. I would agree with Laura Ingalls. There is no command in Scripture that wives ‘obey’ their husbands. The word ‘submit’ in the Greek is different than the word ‘obey’. In Ephesians, wives are told to submit, children to obey.

    Also, as for the retaining of property for women in Victorian England, that was a, extremely important question, since a married woman could not own property and what she owned became her husband’s – hence the concern about fortune hunters. It was another one of the things suffragettes demanded to be changed. To get around the law, especially for fathers who wanted to ensure their daughter’s fortune wouldn’t be squandered sometimes trust funds were made up for the woman’s future descendant, so that the woman could only draw an income from the interest, while the principal would go to her children.

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  19. Our newspaper chain covers the entire LA area, from the coast to the mountains — so doing weather stories is complicated. Our little sliver along the coast right now isn’t really bad, marine layered in, fog horn weather, maybe low 70s (although my house is in a warmer little micro-climate pocket — my house was still 80 degrees when I went to bed at 10 p.m. last night).

    Inland it’s been sweltering this week, triple digits.

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  20. Arghh! I hate it when I close a tag incorrectly.
    I have mentioned on here that I like to read first hand accounts of historical events. So, I have read many contemporary accounts of different eras. I would question the idea that history is being reinterpreted. Rather, I think previous generations often failed to do proper research and simply repeated popular myth. There are some obvious cases of that which most people are now aware, like the school readers which repeated the cute story of the boy George Washington cutting down the cherry tree and nobly confessing to the deed. That there are no records of such an incident ever occurring in the life of Washington should not be a surprise. There is also Marie Antoinette’s fictitious statement, “Let them eat cake.” Once again, there is no evidence she said it, as the philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau quoted an unknown lady of high birth as saying that in a book written years before Marie Antoinette was ever queen of France. What is happening now is that archives are becoming generally available online, so that anyone may locate letters and records. In doing that, people are becoming aware that history books too often streamlined their narratives to talk of heroes and villains, while the actual people who lived in former ages were exactly like humans are today, working both good and evil, often at the same time.

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  21. DJ @11:11, My parents were telling me about that alarm clock – they heard a story about it on the radio. I said that whoever manufactured the batteries that the alarm clock has in it should use it for an advertisement – 13 years and those batteries are still going.

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  22. Phos. I thought the same thing. I would, after all this time consider it a challenge to see if some record is broken. I have a wristwatch with a battery that has been in there several years, but not thirteen.

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  23. Weather was fine today, though the fifth and sixth graders got really hot during the snowball fight at 11:10.

    Kids loved the snowball fight–we rolled up white socks and held their “shape” in place with rubber bands. Only one or two melted (came unrolled).

    Tomorrow we’re playing hockey using swim noodles and beach balls. That’s life in California!

    Tomorrow, though, is supposed to start heating up again for a miserable high over 100 on Thursday. We’ll be playing with water bombs on Thursday.

    I’ve been dealing with inter-library loan at the library today. I’ll tell that tale later. Time to get my hair done. My husband has requested it a foot longer. Not sure how that will be managed. 🙂

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  24. Mumsee, Once upon a time I told you that my assistant’s 17 year old daughter was pregnant. Without knowing anything about the situation you sent and email to me telling me that you would adopt the baby no questions.
    Today is that baby’s 10th Birthday. She now has a younger sister and is the absolute heart of her grandparents. She is well loved, but I thought you would like to know it is all turning out well.

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  25. Wonderful! Third daughter had an internet friend who was pregnant and planning to abort. Daughter told her friend that we would adopt the baby no questions asked. She decided to keep the baby, married a family friend who wanted to help raise the baby, and daughter is just returning today from helping her friend with the first week of her new twins arrival and the older daughter. All are well loved. Sometimes people just need to know that their baby would be loved so maybe is worth something after all.

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  26. Re the editing of Laura’s daughter: I said pretty much the same thing as Roscuro for years, pooh-poohing that Laura’s daughter did much to the books, largely based on The First Four Years being in unfinished form. It seemed just a rumor, and an unnecessary one–just because Rose started out the more famous writer didn’t make Laura incapable of writing on her own.

    But in reading Laura’s letters, published a year ago ( https://www.amazon.com/Selected-Letters-Laura-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0062419684/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1497995754&sr=8-1 ), it is obvious that Rose played a very heavy hand in the writing. Rose discarded a lot of letters from her mother, so whole parts of the story are missing, but what we do have makes it clear that the two worked closely together, and that Rose played a very distinct role in the shaping of the books, including suggesting imaginary story lines that her mother might pursue.

    I don’t know whether Laura would have refused to use the word “obey”; my point was merely that the presence of that scene isn’t the same as, say, that same scene in her diary. The works are heavily autobiographical, but are fictionalized, in some instances very heavily. And sometimes there are serious inconsistencies between the books. Carrie’s age changes, as does Almanzo’s (Almanzo was ten years older than Laura, a fact she seemed to hide in the books, so she makes him the same age as her older classmate Cap Garland, but lying about his age to get a claim and thus seeming to be a couple years older–but he was actually quite a few years older still). In the written stories about their courtship, Almanzo is driving an unruly team of horses, which he is training to sell, and keeping Prince and Lady in the barn–but he continues to drive one of those horses and only drives his own matched team once more, which doesn’t make much sense. There is a discrepancy between which horse(s) he is driving in the one story told twice in the series, his coming to get her so that they can talk about getting married or coming to get her so that the can be married, I forget which (it ends one book and begins the next). Those changes are easy for a fiction writer to make carelessly (you forget how you tell the story), but a writer who is being strictly autobiographical does so only if she remembers a detail wrong. Because my sister was born later in the year than I am, for most of the year she is only one year behind me in age, but between my June birthday and her October one, there are two years difference. But if it ever zooms to three, it is because I have fictionalized something and been inconsistent.

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  27. Roscuro – At the end of a biography of Rose Wilder Lane, Ghost in the Little House, there are several examples of Laura’s original writing & Rose’s edited versions that made it into print. Her letters to her mother show that she did quite a bit of editing & re-writing of Laura’s writing. But it is also noted that Laura learned from her daughter, & her writing improved as time went on. Rose wrote that her mother especially liked the fame & prestige of being a writer.

    Not many people are familiar with Rose Wilder Lane anymore, but she was an accomplished author before, during, & after the writing of the Little House books.

    Sadly, she & Laura had quite a strained relationship. Rose saw Laura as emotionally manipulative, & tight-fisted money-wise. One sad story was that Laura had Rose’s beloved dog killed when Rose was gone for a while.

    Rose was good to her parents, partially supporting them until the Little House books started bringing in money. She came across to me as not a very pleasant woman at times, possibly with some emotional/mental issues, but she was very generous to several people in her life. And I realize that her view of her mother could have been skewed by her own feelings.

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  28. I was sad to read that Jack the dog was left behind in the town they lived in before starting their travels.

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  29. My computer has no problem getting on the blog here at my daughter’s coffee shop. So what can the problem be.
    Yesterday I was using my ipad and didn’t realize I needed to hit refresh every time I logged on. I wondered why no one was posting, when in fact, there were another 30 posts.
    Oh, well

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  30. Cheryl, I recently helped Eldest Niece edit and publish her first book. If someone could read our communications (but they won’t since many of them were oral) years from now, they could conceivably say that I worked very closely with my niece, even to the point of making suggestions where I thought the storyline was weak. In fact, after one of our spoken discussions, she revised an entire chapter to make it stronger; but just how she revised it was none of my suggestion. My suggestions might have helped her to realize the direction she should take, but she was the one who took the journey. The book was entirely out of her imagination; my imagination would never have thought of such a place and story. I was only able to make suggestions after she introduced me to the world of her imagination. Authors discuss their plots and characters all the time with friends and family, and receive their suggestions. That doesn’t mean that those who make the suggestions deserve credit for the final product.

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  31. Kizzie, to add what I just said to Cheryl, I heavily edited grammatical and stylistic errors for Eldest Niece. She would tell you, if she were here, that I sent her copies of her chapters in Word documents filled with highlighted crossed out words, and red text which suggested corrections and explanations for why something needed to be changed, as she has commented several times on it. Nevertheless, what I did is what any editor could have done. It does not require being an author oneself to know when a sentence is wrongly constructed. My niece’s writing improved, as she saw what kind of errors she made consistently. None of that makes me the author of her book.

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  32. We always expect rattlesnake when we see a snake and none of my children have a toy snake. Nor do my dogs. Or cats. That would be me.

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  33. My advice might have helped strengthen my niece’s abilities, but I am still incapable of writing a novel, much less write one in her distinctive style. Were she to leave me one of her manuscripts to finish, I would be unable to do so, and I’m a good writer in other genres, as my two essays I had to write last semester were marked A+ and I aced that Writer’s Craft course that I took a few years ago. So, I still think the fact that Laura’s last book remained unpolished is evidence that Rose was in much the same case.

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  34. The first snake I killed was draped over the bottom edge of the opening to my bedroom (there was a slight step down into the room from the hall) in such a way that I thought at first glance it was a cord. A second looked revealed that cord had a head raised slightly off the ground with eyes… Blech, I still occasionally get nightmares in which snakes come crawling out of everything. I started getting them the day after I killed the third snake and ended up moving out of that particular house to another on the compound. I had a nap in the afternoon (too hot to do anything else) and dreamed that there were snakes slithering up the walls and woke up in horror. It took me a while to realize it was only a dream. Even now, when I see a cordlike object that I’m not expecting to see, I flinch and have to take a second look.

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  35. Kim @ 10:48 am – Peter, I will trust you on that. It has been quite a while since I read the Little House books.

    I had to get Mrs L’s old copy of the book to verify, so what I wrote above is an exact quote, with a few unimportant words left out.

    As for some of LIW’s life events being left out, I read that she purposefully left out the death of her younger brother since she was writing her story for children to read, and in children’s stories, one doesn’t have a baby die. It is sad enough when Jack the dog dies.

    Rose may have edited the stories and modernized the thoughts, but since Laura was still alive when all but the “First Years” book came out, I would say Laura had a major say in how they were worded.

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  36. Jo your daughter has a coffee shop??!! Oh you are a blessed woman 🙂
    My dear departed mother in law had “and obey” taken out of her vows…still makes me giggle at the thought! My in laws had the most endearing and loving relationship…my husband’s siblings all say that our relationship reminds them so much of their parent’s….we kid around with one another..he will tease me and I him…he finishes my sentences and I finish his…but I did say “and obey” when we took our vows 42 years ago…he doesn’t bring it up and neither do I…it all works together for good 🙂

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  37. Roscuro – I am not implying that Rose was the actual author, but that she heavily collaborated in the writing. I can’t remember all the whys & wherefores, but what I read in her biography laid out the case very convincingly.

    As I wrote above, “At the end of a biography of Rose Wilder Lane, Ghost in the Little House, there are several examples of Laura’s original writing & Rose’s edited versions that made it into print.” Rose’s versions, which made it into print, were sometimes considerably different from her mother’s version. At the very least, she heavily edited her mother’s work.

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  38. Roscuro, leaving The First Four Years as written doesn’t necessarily mean that Rose was “unable” to rewrite them, or to rewrite them in the style of the other books. We don’t know either way whether she could do so, or whether she tried. It might mean that in revisions of earlier books, her mother could ultimately say yes or no to suggestions, and Rose chose to respect her mother (or she was grieving and didn’t have the energy, or something else) and didn’t choose to try to rework them further.

    In my own editing, when I work with nonfiction writers, I often give specific suggestions. I might say, for instance: “This could use some more personal touches. A story would work wonderfully, perhaps a story of a father who sacrificed greatly for his child.” And then I might even give some ideas of just what kind of sacrificing would fit really well in this slot. However, when I work with fiction authors, I’m much more likely to say, “The conflict between the sisters just doesn’t feel realistic here. Andrea has been sacrificing greatly to get her sister into school, and while she might be inclined to be petty, I don’t think she would do something that might hurt Mary’s chance to get the education both of them want her to have.” I don’t make a suggestion at all (usually), but just point out the problem. Now, if the author comes back to me and says, “You know, I actually saw the same thing, but I can’t figure out any other way to make it work,” then I will tell her two or three possible scenarios and see if any “click” for her. But most of the time I don’t suggest such things–I have learned that most fiction authors are better able to come up with fixes on their own.

    Neither woman chose to have Rose’s name on the books, or even to make public her help with the book. Apparently even Laura’s editors did not know of Rose’s help. So I wouldn’t suggest that Rose was a co-author. But she certainly did give some writing assistance, especially initially, and not just a light edit.

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  39. I had Bible study tonight. I am really enjoying getting together with ladies from my church. Especially with all the changes taking place, this group helps me feel more grounded.

    The header flowers, day lilies, are near an entrance to my church building.

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  40. Karen Handel, Republican, won the 6th district congressional seat in GA. Hooray! Of the three counties voting, of course my county was the one that went for the Dem. I was not within the area of the county which got to vote. (Sorry to Linda for posting here, but I was afraid it would not be seen otherwise.)

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