To vote or not to vote (at all) on Tuesday … So discouraging (as ‘downticket’ all we can elect in our area are liberal Democrats anyway — the state senate district i’m in has more than 60% Dem registration, a republican won’t even make it into a runoff). So why bother? Convince me ….
The problem with the way our primary is now set up in California is that there will probably be hardly any Republicans TO vote for in most races, most of the runoffs will be between two liberal Democrats. I mean, what’s the point? It’s beginning to just feel like an exercise in futility.
I’ll probably go back to no party preference after this election. The only reason I gave that up was to have at least a voice in the primary where more of the conservative candidates were on the ballot. But there’s little point in that now anyway, right?
Besides, I suspect that after this debacle of an election year both parties will move toward just one national primary and be done with it that way next time.
And the primaries will all be “open,” meaning non-party members can vote for either Republicans or Democrats in a general primary. After all, something like 40% of those registered to vote are declared as independent now (and are members of no political party) — at least I think that’s the figure I saw.
Both parties are taking a major hit in this election year, will be interesting to see how they regroup. Someone said ideally there should be 4 viable/main parties — the 2 extremes and then 2 for those in the center, leaning one way or the other.
Not sure it’s that simple, but there surely will be changes ahead after this.
So if there were 4 major parties as described above:
1. Sanders would be in the far left party.
2. Hillary could go far left, but because of her Wall Street ties and her general agreement on foreign policy with Little Bush and the Neo-Cons, she would best fit in the moderate left party.
3. Cruz would be the hero of the far right party.
4. Christie, Jeb!, Rubio and Kasich would be in the moderate right party.
So where does Trump fit?
1. On trade and healthcare, he is with Sanders on the far left.
2. On Perversion, Planned Parenthood and entitlements, he is with Hillary. I guess that makes him moderate left.
3. His foreign policy views (some of which I agree with) are difficult to categorize. They incude a type of Neo-isolationism, bursts of exteme bellicosity and bizarre ideas such as the advocacy of nuclear proliferation.
4. On close scrutiny and cross-examination his most famous position (immigration) is almost entirely demagoguery though it could be argued that he is a “conservative” on that issue.
5. Of course, Trump’s dominant characteristics are extreme rudeness, bigotry and ignorance. What party wants to claim those traits?
I suppose in a four party race, Trump would run on the “moderate-right” and would bring millions of the ignorant into the primaries for that party where he would again defeat Bush, Rubio, Walker, Kasich, Graham, Christie, et al.
This would set up Cruz vs. Sanders vs. Hillary vs. Trump.
In 1971 there was a big championship fight between Joe Frazier and Cassius Clay. Most of us at Grapevine Middle School (like our fathers) were pulling for Frazier. The hippies were for Clay. The conservatives, like our fathers before us, always called him “Clay”.
Yes, Cassius Clay, which is mostly how I seem to remember him. 🙂 I guess because my dad followed boxing back then.
Maybe Trump will convert and turn nicer. ?
Was up in Hollywood today where there were many, many Bernie bumper stickers and signs. 🙂
We love Bernie, he even has a headquarters smack in the middle of Hollywood Boulevard (and one in the old downtown section of my LA port hometown as well). I’m sure the headquarters were bustling with volunteer activity today, trying to make sure they get out the vote. That should be an interesting one to watch on Tuesday.
Sanders is left, not far left — I’m further left than him.
The difference between Clinton and Jeb Bush is negligible — they both have the same corporate sponsors and her (and Obama’s) foreign policy isn’t much different than Bush et al. When Bush et al dropped out, the Clinton camp immediately tried to bring them to her side in a 90s sort of triangulation ploy forgetting that its 2016 and there’s a huge Sanders Democrat bloc that’s not impressed.
Trump is a modern Mussolini. He is the result of Republican party that catered to their corporate sponsors gutting the US middle class and small town American yet campaigned as the party of small town socially conservative America. The Republican party never delivered to their base and rather than rejecting the party and voting Democratic, the rejected and alienated Republicans voted for Trump. An other modern Italian which runs some parallels to Trump — Berlusconi. A media mogul who became involved in politics to avoid jail time. And similar to Trump, he characterized any criminal proceedings into his business practises as biased communist (or Mexican) judges and prosecutors.
“Left” and “right” also are somewhat relative terms — depending on the position of the one using the term. 🙂
Trump is getting a good bit of deserved blowback over his comments about the “Mexican” judge (who was, ahem, born in Indiana).
It’ll be interesting to see what happens between Sanders & Clinton Tuesday in California. It may not make much difference, though, as Clinton will have the needed delegates by then apparently.
Here’s the political compass’s take on the spectrum and 2016. I’d keep Trump that high up but move him slightly to the left. I would lower Bush and Rubio toward Clinton but keep them that far right. Cruz is probably where he belongs. Now if you want to know where I fall in this map, go to the bottom left hand corner and then move two space to the right and two spaces up.
Here is some good news for Trump supporters. It will be a good reminder for me and others that Hillary is likely as rude, vulgar and insane as old Trump himself. She, unlike Trump, generally just throws her fits behind closed doors.
Rumor has it the major networks are getting ready to proclaim Hillary as the nominee.
Then it’s popcorn time, and we’ll see yet another side show. Those rowdy Sanders protesters are fine when it’s a Trump rally, but the press won’t be victim shaming when it’s Hillary dealing with the unhappy rioters. And just wait until they get to Philly.
Oh, don’t worry, the press loves a good riot wherever it happens. 🙂
And it appears Hillary very well could secure the needed delegates out of primaries held both today & Tuesday, so, yes, she would then be the presumptive nominee. (Although in a year like 2016, nothing’s a sure thing really … And Sanders has indicated he’ll be pesky.)
Ricky, Hillary actually throws lamps. 🙂 Bill ducks.
What if Bernie wins California? (The diner mural shown in the top picture with this article — it’s on Wilshire & Fairfax and I drove by it a couple weeks ago, it’s a marvel, best campaign sign ever.)
… Bernie Sanders, plainly, is just California dreamin’ if he thinks a victory there will get him the nomination.
And yet, the overall primary race could end on a bitter note for Clinton if she loses most of the final six states including the biggest delegate prize, California. Such an end may not just be a consolation prize for the runner-up, but it could turn the convention into a full-blown battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. And that means Clinton would have to wait much longer for all those Sanders supporters she hopes will help her against Trump in the fall. …
… A California win would be the biggest geographic win in Sanders’ final tally. Up until now, Sanders has won only one primary with more than 100 delegates available (Michigan) and has only won nine of the 31 primary states. That has raised questions about his revolution’s ability to materialize in large turnout environments. California could neutralize such concerns. …
… Sanders, who likely knows deep down he is not going to be the nominee, argues that the Democratic Party should welcome a “messy” convention because “a serious debate about serious issues is good for democracy” and would “increase voter turnout,” presumably by making his independent-minded voters feel like the Democratic Party is their home.
Democrats with memories of their 1980 convention, not to the mention the 1972 and 1968 conventions, would be hard pressed to agree. But if Sanders wins the June 7 prize, and members of the Democratic establishment don’t want an ugly convention, they are going to have give Sanders a lot of what he asks for.
___________________________________________
A Libertarian friend of mine shared this video (about 7 & 1/2 min. long) of an interview with Gary Johnson. He said Johnson hasn’t always come across as articulate as he’d like, but thinks he articulated his positions well here. . .
One thing I chafe at, & I think some other conservatives looking at libertarianism chafe at, too, is the second half of the statement that Libertarians are “Fiscally conservative, & socially liberal.” The Christian libertarians (& Libertarians 🙂 ) I know would say they are “socially tolerant” or something similar, because their moral values are not “liberal”, but they don’t believe that government should force anyone’s moral values on anyone else.
As I wrote elsewhere (in a Facebook comment), I am not completely libertarian. But with Trump & Clinton being our probable choices, the thought of voting for Johnson is tempting. I am praying for God to give me wisdom as to who to vote for, or to not vote at all.
Another friend, someone I think is quite wise & reasonable, pointed out that people will often look at another option (than the one or ones they’ve considered in the past), but reject it because of its flaws. He said that of course this other option has flaws, every option does, but consider that its flaws are fewer than the flaws of the other options, & it just might work.
I forget exactly what he was defending. But that is a good thought to keep in mind when comparing various options in life, political & otherwise.
Given Trump and Clinton, its too bad Obama can’t run for a third term……
Ricky — your link shows Clinton to the left of Sanders in economic issues????
With 895 pledged delegates left and only about 275 delegates behind, Sanders may still catch up. Even if he doesn’t the Clinton group and the DNC (its the same thing right) need to give him more respect than they have so far and give him greater influence at the convention. If not, Clinton is in for a far rougher rider than need be.
A real mistake would be to call the nomination after NJ closes but not California. If Clinton goes along with this, she will again dig herself deeper against Sanders supporters who she needs not just for votes but also energy.
Not to make light of spousal abuse but who here is surprised that Hilary threw a few things at Bill?? Thats not news just confirmation of a widely held belief.
I saw that HRW. If they put Sanders where he should be on economic issues he would be very close to the Green candidate overall. They also had Paul to the left of Trump. I saw another chart that had Trump to the left of all 16 other Republicans.
Sanders is consistent. Cruz, Santorum and Jindal are consistent. Hillary, Bush, Rubio and others can be for things before they are against them. Trump can be both before and against something in the same paragraph. His only consistency is in his rudeness, vulgarity and narcissism.
He is a fine man. I can’t second guess his decision. So I’m back to supporting my Grand-Dog, Arnold Weaver. More than anything, Trump is a farce. So we fight farce with farce.
Wandering Views 
I thought I would put up this Ed Stetzer article before it is used against me.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2016/june/trump-supporters.html
However, if I can’t mock Trump or tease Trumpkins, I am going to have to ignore politics and just watch golf and old movies.
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To vote or not to vote (at all) on Tuesday … So discouraging (as ‘downticket’ all we can elect in our area are liberal Democrats anyway — the state senate district i’m in has more than 60% Dem registration, a republican won’t even make it into a runoff). So why bother? Convince me ….
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I think Ben Carson remains on our ballot, so that would be my modest “protest” vote at the top.
Don’t worry, I’ll vote in November for sure, though maybe not for president, I haven’t decided yet.
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The problem with the way our primary is now set up in California is that there will probably be hardly any Republicans TO vote for in most races, most of the runoffs will be between two liberal Democrats. I mean, what’s the point? It’s beginning to just feel like an exercise in futility.
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You think that’s bad? You should see the Independent primary ballot!
I don’t recognize a single name–except for Gary Johnson and only because of FB!
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Ugh.
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I’ll probably go back to no party preference after this election. The only reason I gave that up was to have at least a voice in the primary where more of the conservative candidates were on the ballot. But there’s little point in that now anyway, right?
Besides, I suspect that after this debacle of an election year both parties will move toward just one national primary and be done with it that way next time.
LikeLike
And the primaries will all be “open,” meaning non-party members can vote for either Republicans or Democrats in a general primary. After all, something like 40% of those registered to vote are declared as independent now (and are members of no political party) — at least I think that’s the figure I saw.
Both parties are taking a major hit in this election year, will be interesting to see how they regroup. Someone said ideally there should be 4 viable/main parties — the 2 extremes and then 2 for those in the center, leaning one way or the other.
Not sure it’s that simple, but there surely will be changes ahead after this.
LikeLike
So if there were 4 major parties as described above:
1. Sanders would be in the far left party.
2. Hillary could go far left, but because of her Wall Street ties and her general agreement on foreign policy with Little Bush and the Neo-Cons, she would best fit in the moderate left party.
3. Cruz would be the hero of the far right party.
4. Christie, Jeb!, Rubio and Kasich would be in the moderate right party.
So where does Trump fit?
1. On trade and healthcare, he is with Sanders on the far left.
2. On Perversion, Planned Parenthood and entitlements, he is with Hillary. I guess that makes him moderate left.
3. His foreign policy views (some of which I agree with) are difficult to categorize. They incude a type of Neo-isolationism, bursts of exteme bellicosity and bizarre ideas such as the advocacy of nuclear proliferation.
4. On close scrutiny and cross-examination his most famous position (immigration) is almost entirely demagoguery though it could be argued that he is a “conservative” on that issue.
5. Of course, Trump’s dominant characteristics are extreme rudeness, bigotry and ignorance. What party wants to claim those traits?
I suppose in a four party race, Trump would run on the “moderate-right” and would bring millions of the ignorant into the primaries for that party where he would again defeat Bush, Rubio, Walker, Kasich, Graham, Christie, et al.
This would set up Cruz vs. Sanders vs. Hillary vs. Trump.
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Trump breaks all molds
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Trump and Ali — some similarities?
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Do you mean Trump and Cassius Clay?
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In 1971 there was a big championship fight between Joe Frazier and Cassius Clay. Most of us at Grapevine Middle School (like our fathers) were pulling for Frazier. The hippies were for Clay. The conservatives, like our fathers before us, always called him “Clay”.
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Isn’t our dear President always talking up how wonderful the economy is? Apparently, he hasn’t read the following report:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2016/06/funniest-labor-report-ever.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+DougRossJournal+%28Doug+Ross+@+Journal%29&m=1
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Yes, Cassius Clay, which is mostly how I seem to remember him. 🙂 I guess because my dad followed boxing back then.
Maybe Trump will convert and turn nicer. ?
Was up in Hollywood today where there were many, many Bernie bumper stickers and signs. 🙂
We love Bernie, he even has a headquarters smack in the middle of Hollywood Boulevard (and one in the old downtown section of my LA port hometown as well). I’m sure the headquarters were bustling with volunteer activity today, trying to make sure they get out the vote. That should be an interesting one to watch on Tuesday.
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Ha
” … Ali was Donald Trump before there was Donald Trump. …”
But remember, you heard it from me first. 🙂
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/ali-my-take.php
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A good article, Donna J, and a comparison I would have never thought about.
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Sanders is left, not far left — I’m further left than him.
The difference between Clinton and Jeb Bush is negligible — they both have the same corporate sponsors and her (and Obama’s) foreign policy isn’t much different than Bush et al. When Bush et al dropped out, the Clinton camp immediately tried to bring them to her side in a 90s sort of triangulation ploy forgetting that its 2016 and there’s a huge Sanders Democrat bloc that’s not impressed.
Trump is a modern Mussolini. He is the result of Republican party that catered to their corporate sponsors gutting the US middle class and small town American yet campaigned as the party of small town socially conservative America. The Republican party never delivered to their base and rather than rejecting the party and voting Democratic, the rejected and alienated Republicans voted for Trump. An other modern Italian which runs some parallels to Trump — Berlusconi. A media mogul who became involved in politics to avoid jail time. And similar to Trump, he characterized any criminal proceedings into his business practises as biased communist (or Mexican) judges and prosecutors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi#The_beginnings
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“Left” and “right” also are somewhat relative terms — depending on the position of the one using the term. 🙂
Trump is getting a good bit of deserved blowback over his comments about the “Mexican” judge (who was, ahem, born in Indiana).
It’ll be interesting to see what happens between Sanders & Clinton Tuesday in California. It may not make much difference, though, as Clinton will have the needed delegates by then apparently.
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Now HRW, I am to the right of Cruz. Still, I think we can call him “far right”.
I understand you are to the left of Sanders. However, when he describes himself as a socialist he gets to be “far left” unless we are all in Cuba.
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Here’s the political compass’s take on the spectrum and 2016. I’d keep Trump that high up but move him slightly to the left. I would lower Bush and Rubio toward Clinton but keep them that far right. Cruz is probably where he belongs. Now if you want to know where I fall in this map, go to the bottom left hand corner and then move two space to the right and two spaces up.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
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Here are another couple of charts. They are from a commie, that is a “far left” source – the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/findthebest-/every-2016-candidate-from_b_7562176.html
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Here is some good news for Trump supporters. It will be a good reminder for me and others that Hillary is likely as rude, vulgar and insane as old Trump himself. She, unlike Trump, generally just throws her fits behind closed doors.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/06/coming_attractions_former_secret_service_officer_spills_the_beans_on_hillary_in_the_white_house.html
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Donna,
Rumor has it the major networks are getting ready to proclaim Hillary as the nominee.
Then it’s popcorn time, and we’ll see yet another side show. Those rowdy Sanders protesters are fine when it’s a Trump rally, but the press won’t be victim shaming when it’s Hillary dealing with the unhappy rioters. And just wait until they get to Philly.
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Oh, don’t worry, the press loves a good riot wherever it happens. 🙂
And it appears Hillary very well could secure the needed delegates out of primaries held both today & Tuesday, so, yes, she would then be the presumptive nominee. (Although in a year like 2016, nothing’s a sure thing really … And Sanders has indicated he’ll be pesky.)
Ricky, Hillary actually throws lamps. 🙂 Bill ducks.
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What if Bernie wins California? (The diner mural shown in the top picture with this article — it’s on Wilshire & Fairfax and I drove by it a couple weeks ago, it’s a marvel, best campaign sign ever.)
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/bernie-sanders-california-primary-213940
_______________________________
… Bernie Sanders, plainly, is just California dreamin’ if he thinks a victory there will get him the nomination.
And yet, the overall primary race could end on a bitter note for Clinton if she loses most of the final six states including the biggest delegate prize, California. Such an end may not just be a consolation prize for the runner-up, but it could turn the convention into a full-blown battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. And that means Clinton would have to wait much longer for all those Sanders supporters she hopes will help her against Trump in the fall. …
… A California win would be the biggest geographic win in Sanders’ final tally. Up until now, Sanders has won only one primary with more than 100 delegates available (Michigan) and has only won nine of the 31 primary states. That has raised questions about his revolution’s ability to materialize in large turnout environments. California could neutralize such concerns. …
… Sanders, who likely knows deep down he is not going to be the nominee, argues that the Democratic Party should welcome a “messy” convention because “a serious debate about serious issues is good for democracy” and would “increase voter turnout,” presumably by making his independent-minded voters feel like the Democratic Party is their home.
Democrats with memories of their 1980 convention, not to the mention the 1972 and 1968 conventions, would be hard pressed to agree. But if Sanders wins the June 7 prize, and members of the Democratic establishment don’t want an ugly convention, they are going to have give Sanders a lot of what he asks for.
___________________________________________
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A Libertarian friend of mine shared this video (about 7 & 1/2 min. long) of an interview with Gary Johnson. He said Johnson hasn’t always come across as articulate as he’d like, but thinks he articulated his positions well here. . .
One thing I chafe at, & I think some other conservatives looking at libertarianism chafe at, too, is the second half of the statement that Libertarians are “Fiscally conservative, & socially liberal.” The Christian libertarians (& Libertarians 🙂 ) I know would say they are “socially tolerant” or something similar, because their moral values are not “liberal”, but they don’t believe that government should force anyone’s moral values on anyone else.
As I wrote elsewhere (in a Facebook comment), I am not completely libertarian. But with Trump & Clinton being our probable choices, the thought of voting for Johnson is tempting. I am praying for God to give me wisdom as to who to vote for, or to not vote at all.
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Another friend, someone I think is quite wise & reasonable, pointed out that people will often look at another option (than the one or ones they’ve considered in the past), but reject it because of its flaws. He said that of course this other option has flaws, every option does, but consider that its flaws are fewer than the flaws of the other options, & it just might work.
I forget exactly what he was defending.
But that is a good thought to keep in mind when comparing various options in life, political & otherwise.
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Given Trump and Clinton, its too bad Obama can’t run for a third term……
Ricky — your link shows Clinton to the left of Sanders in economic issues????
With 895 pledged delegates left and only about 275 delegates behind, Sanders may still catch up. Even if he doesn’t the Clinton group and the DNC (its the same thing right) need to give him more respect than they have so far and give him greater influence at the convention. If not, Clinton is in for a far rougher rider than need be.
A real mistake would be to call the nomination after NJ closes but not California. If Clinton goes along with this, she will again dig herself deeper against Sanders supporters who she needs not just for votes but also energy.
Not to make light of spousal abuse but who here is surprised that Hilary threw a few things at Bill?? Thats not news just confirmation of a widely held belief.
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I saw that HRW. If they put Sanders where he should be on economic issues he would be very close to the Green candidate overall. They also had Paul to the left of Trump. I saw another chart that had Trump to the left of all 16 other Republicans.
Sanders is consistent. Cruz, Santorum and Jindal are consistent. Hillary, Bush, Rubio and others can be for things before they are against them. Trump can be both before and against something in the same paragraph. His only consistency is in his rudeness, vulgarity and narcissism.
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SHRIEK
(the suggestion that Obama get another term)
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The only light at the end of the tunnel is that the Obama reign is, at long last, coming mercifully to an end
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Not a perfect president but he’s far preferable to both Trump or Clinton.
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David French is not running”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president
He is a fine man. I can’t second guess his decision. So I’m back to supporting my Grand-Dog, Arnold Weaver. More than anything, Trump is a farce. So we fight farce with farce.
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We desperately need a change of course
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Only if it is not charted by an authoritarian lunatic.
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Well, it’s a good thing our hope isn’t in princes.
Perhaps amid this all-out cultural & political mess our God is driving that point home to us.
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