¹Judge me, O God, and plead my cause against an ungodly nation: O deliver me from the deceitful and unjust man.
2 For thou art the God of my strength: why dost thou cast me off? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.
Which, I suspect, is why it is important for Christians to come along side and teach the Way. So many people believe they are Christians because they were born in the West or because they have gone to a church, they need believers to give them the Truth.
Or because they have, tucked away somewhere, their childhood gift Bible still intact …
Trump indeed appears to be an unbeliever (who has a weak understanding, if any real one at all, of the gospel). Perhaps his state of unbelief is just more obvious to see than it is on some other more carefully self-packaged political types.
They all need prayer and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m too often neglectful of that calling. 😦
Helps also to remember that only God through divine intervention & regeneration can bring any of us to repentance. Until then, we all think we’re “just fine, thank you.” 🙂 Spiritual blindness & deafness is the natural state until that happens.
Only the Holy Spirit can get through to someone who seems unteachable, but He does often work through our influence.
This conversation flows right into what I came to ask prayer for.
You’ve read in the past about my Facebook exchanges with YF (& you may remember that my Chrissy lives with her family, & looks up to her).
After reading her posts & comments for the past couple years, I am sad to say that she truly seems unteachable, & I really don’t use that word casually. I’ve even resisted using it about her in my own thoughts, but have come to the conclusion that she is.
She seems totally self-UNaware, clueless to her own hateful & haughty attitudes, & unwilling to see any other viewpoint but her own. She has a very liberal & unbiblical view of the Bible’s teachings, & is unwilling to consider that the “traditional” interpretations of scripture are indeed correct. She believes that she is a devout, Jesus-loving Christian, but I have my doubts that she truly has saving faith.
She seems to be getting worse, more entrenched in those attitudes, so totally convinced of the rightness & righteousness of her views that she sees other viewpoints as not only dead wrong, but as coming from bad motives (hatred, bigotry, selfishness, etc.)
Please pray for the Holy Spirit to get through to her, to bring her to repentance & to humble her attitude. (Of course, I cannot pray that without repenting myself of my own bad attitudes.)
Chas’ reminder of Trump’s favorite verse reminds me of this. . .
YF one time shared three scriptures that she explained had always had an impact on her, that they “resonate” (I’m pretty sure that’s the word she used) in her spirit & are very meaningful to her.
One was the scripture about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven. Another was the one about not praying in public to be seen. (I forget the third, but it was somehow similar to those.) In other words, they were verses that were aimed at others, not herself. She is not rich, & she doesn’t pray in public, so she is not saying that these verses have affected her in a personal way, but in the past, she has expressed disdain for rich people, & in an email she once ranted about how so many Christians in churches were trying to impress everyone with fancy prayers or singing loudly.
Another time, she actually said she “loved” the scripture about the camel, needle, & rich person, which practically made me shudder. I explained to her that, compared to the rest of the world, she was rich herself.
BG told me once that she was an atheist. I informed her she was no such thing. She was prayed into existence and that was all the proof she needed there was a God. I told her at most she could be agnostic, but she best get over it soon. 😉
I spent a portion of the night praying for the situation here at home. Not much has changed. I also prayed for her and for our trip.
Wow, very perceptive Karen about those verses your friend likes. I hadn’t though of it that way, but of course – and how much easier it is for us to see others’ need for spiritual correction. 🙂 And how common for us to cherry-pick verses that suit our ‘political’ world view. Seems like those verses “fit” so well her critique of what’s wrong with others.
Wonder if she’ll realize that?
Good response you gave about her being ‘rich’ in the rest of the world’s eyes, you’d think that would bring it home. Jesus always very pointedly taught in a way that should prompt us to look inward first (hard), rather than at our neighbor’s shortcomings (easy and all-too natural for us).
“Only the Holy Spirit can get through to someone who seems unteachable, but He does often work through our influence.”
True, he uses the means laid out in Scripture such as prayer and sharing the gospel as a very important part of his work in saving those he’s called to himself (and we are called to actively participate and not ignore that duty, with the status of each person’s soul ultimately in his hands). Pretty amazing, that.
Donna, your comment about the unused Bible received as a child was timely. I just gave son a new ESV Bible that I thought would be good for church since he attends a PCA. He has used his NIV, imprinted with his name, that he received years ago from our former church (husband’s current church), and it is tattered.
Young friend is missing the point of the camel and the eye of the needle in that only God could make it possible. It might be hard, it might be unlikely, but if it is God’s will, He will make it happen. She is making herself into a god of judgement, and unfortunately, acting like Satan in misuse of Scripture.
It’s the motives behind prayer that are targeted as wrong by God, and also the thought that prayer must not be vain repetitions. Young friend may be finding excuse not to pray. Jesus taught about prayer and spoke the Lord’s prayer in a group setting and called on,’Our Father,’ which indicates, as our model prayer, that we do pray out loud in groups at ti!mes when appropriate. To cry out to Him in public in an orderly way is an indicator of faith and trust that He alone has power to remedy situations. It honors and glorifies Him when done with proper motives.
But she has a bitterness towards other believers. She has written about how she thinks that so many Christians in churches are trying to prove what good Christians they are by praying fancy prayers, or singing too loudly, or ostentatiously (in her view) dropping their tithes & offerings into the offering plate. I really think she had her view too much on what others were doing, & misinterpreted their actions. (As I wrote above, she tends to ascribe bad motives to people.)
Reminds me of how my dad thought my pastor (the one we had several years ago) was arrogant. Pastor Wade was not arrogant at all, he was a humble, sincere man of God. But during prayer time, or worship, Pastor Wade would often have his head tilted back, eyes closed. To my dad, who was already hostile to evangelical Christianity (he’d only be in church for very special occasions, like a Christmas program the girls were in), he saw that stance as arrogant.
Then there was a time, many years ago, when Lee was feeling bitterness towards our church (he got over that, thankfully). Our worship leader was a boisterous singer & worshiper, whether leading worship or being in the pew while someone else led it. Lee started to see that as him showing off. But he really wasn’t, that was just his way – he radiated the joy of the Lord.
But those stories, & YF’s attitudes, illustrate how a bitter or skeptical attitude can color how we interpret what others do.
Karen, does YF limit her expressions of prayer? Does she only pray privately? Just wondering. I think people generally evolve in their prayer life as they become mature believers. She is still young.
Janice – Since she doesn’t go to church or any Bible study, then I’d say that she only prays alone.
She used to come to our Hope Group (small group) with her mom a few years ago, & I think she may have prayed aloud a time or two when we would pray for each other’s requests. The thing I think she disagrees with is when people pray before the congregation at church or church events. She thinks they try to sound superior to other Christians, & she sites the verse about not making a public show of prayers, but going into one’s prayer closet.
Yes, Donna, I think for most sincere believers, the verses that resonate within us are the ones that either prick our own hearts or encourage us in some way.
My brother, Mike, who’s been estranged from my parents for two years is on his way to their house. He should be there in twenty minutes. They don’t know he’s coming. Please pray he’d be well received. Thanks.
A lady, Tracy, on one of the local Facebook pages posted about a “haunting” in her house that sounds to me like demonic activity ramping up. The incidents she wrote about were:
“. . .It crossed the line and attacked my boyfriend in his bedroom last week, apparently it grabbed him by the leg and tried to drag him out of bed, he woke up with his leg in the air and feeling something holding onto him and almost every night he’s talking in his sleep to someone in the room. A few nights ago . . . it sounded like he was choking. [Has been having these experiences for about 2 years] Everything from dishes being thrown, hearing voices. My friends have had experiences as well, being grabbed, seeing shadows/dogs barking at thin air. I’ve heard something massive stomping on my roof a few months ago, a friend saw a shape-shifter walking past the house as a man and morphed into a shadow figure. It’s nearly set the house on fire and surged out a light fixture.”
The replies she has gotten have all been about contacting a couple paranormal groups that deal with these things. I was so hoping someone (other than me) would offer a Christian response. My pastor suggested that since I am a member of the Facebook group, but he isn’t, that I make some contact with her & scope out her personal situation. Well, since I don’t know her personally, & haven’t had any Facebook discussions with her to build on, I was very nervous about that. (Pastor Billy also said that he would be glad to make contact with her, & even visit her house, after I make the initial contact.)
So, although I was very nervous about how to proceed, I prayed, then wrote a private message to her, being very careful to assure her I am only writing out of concern, & that she is under no obligation to answer me. I added a little humor to leaven the mood of the message.
I asked her if she or he had had any dabblings in or experience with the occult (Ouija boards, tarot cards, etc.), which can open a door to this kind of thing, & mentioned that sometimes emotional turmoil in a person’s life can open up a door, too. I then reiterated that I was only writing out of concern & that she can feel free to ignore my message. As I said, I was very careful to write in such a way that I didn’t come across as a busybody, or trying to blame them for what is going on.
Please pray for the Holy Spirit to intervene in this situation, to minister to Tracy & her boyfriend. Also, wisdom, insight & leading for me if she is open to further discussion on this with me.
Pastor Billy did have me include that he has dealt with demonic activity before, & if she would like him to pray for her or offer any spiritual counsel, he would like to hear from her. I gave her his email address & the church’s phone number.
Karen, you are doing the wise things.
It is not wise for people who have no experience with such to delve into such things.
This is a world not familiar to us. We need to stay out of it.
Unless, of course, we are directed to do so. That is another issue to be dealt with.
But curiosity is not a valid reason.
I, in my smug position of open mindedness and accepting modern belief, bought into the whole story of demonic possession or activity having been undiagnosed mental illness and Hollywood horror. I made that comment once in some sort of discussion with my priest in a church environment. Several there were quick to call my on it, including him. He said if you had ever been to Africa you would know it was real and it was evil.
Since that time I have circled back around to the belief that it is real. I know it. I have felt it in New Orleans when someone I was with wanted to go into a Voodoo shop just for the touristiness of it. I know that I would not be strong enough to combat it. I will leave that to those who know way more than I. I will do my best not to be exposed to any of it. I have prayed, “Jesus, please protect me from this”.
Karen, my advice would be that you have done the best you could.
Thank you, Kim. My pastor said he thinks I handled it well. I really don’t want to get deeply involved, but strongly felt that a Christian voice was needed. It doesn’t look like the lady has seen my message yet, & she hasn’t commented anymore on her post.
Lee & I prayed for protection for ourselves & our family, as well as for that young couple.
Something has happened that has hurt me and angered me. I am having a really hard time keeping my mouth shut. I need to keep it shut. I am not ready to have this argument yet. I need wisdom.
Praying for all these situations and people. Our little Annika came home yesterday. We are rejoicing. She will have medical issues, but she is eating well. Her big brother and sister are thrilled. We saw her last week, but it will be awhile now.
Spent two full days moving a relative and cleaning up the pig sty in which he was living. “Love is patient and kind…” keeps running through my head. He did hear from all of us, but not sure anything will penetrate. He is a believer and even heads a bible study once a year. He does have mental health issues, but none of that excuses how he was living. This is not the first time we have gone through this. Hopefully, he will be doing better in his new senior living apartment.
Lee rarely gets two days off in a row. We spent most of his two days off (yesterday & today) babysitting Forrest, who has a cold. Now Lee & I both feel like we are coming down with the cold. Since he had today off, he won’t have Wednesday off, meaning he won’t have another day in the week to rest. Please pray the cold virus passes him by quickly, & for strength for the coming week. Thank you.
Wandering Views 
We ought to continue to pray for Ben Carson as he continues to try to influence Trump for God. Tough place to be.
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It’s especially hard to reach a person who has never asked for forgiveness because he haws never done anything wrong.
Also, who’s favorite bible verse is “an eye for an eye”.
Yes. He did. Both.
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Which, I suspect, is why it is important for Christians to come along side and teach the Way. So many people believe they are Christians because they were born in the West or because they have gone to a church, they need believers to give them the Truth.
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Or because they have, tucked away somewhere, their childhood gift Bible still intact …
Trump indeed appears to be an unbeliever (who has a weak understanding, if any real one at all, of the gospel). Perhaps his state of unbelief is just more obvious to see than it is on some other more carefully self-packaged political types.
They all need prayer and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m too often neglectful of that calling. 😦
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Helps also to remember that only God through divine intervention & regeneration can bring any of us to repentance. Until then, we all think we’re “just fine, thank you.” 🙂 Spiritual blindness & deafness is the natural state until that happens.
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Only the Holy Spirit can get through to someone who seems unteachable, but He does often work through our influence.
This conversation flows right into what I came to ask prayer for.
You’ve read in the past about my Facebook exchanges with YF (& you may remember that my Chrissy lives with her family, & looks up to her).
After reading her posts & comments for the past couple years, I am sad to say that she truly seems unteachable, & I really don’t use that word casually. I’ve even resisted using it about her in my own thoughts, but have come to the conclusion that she is.
She seems totally self-UNaware, clueless to her own hateful & haughty attitudes, & unwilling to see any other viewpoint but her own. She has a very liberal & unbiblical view of the Bible’s teachings, & is unwilling to consider that the “traditional” interpretations of scripture are indeed correct. She believes that she is a devout, Jesus-loving Christian, but I have my doubts that she truly has saving faith.
She seems to be getting worse, more entrenched in those attitudes, so totally convinced of the rightness & righteousness of her views that she sees other viewpoints as not only dead wrong, but as coming from bad motives (hatred, bigotry, selfishness, etc.)
Please pray for the Holy Spirit to get through to her, to bring her to repentance & to humble her attitude. (Of course, I cannot pray that without repenting myself of my own bad attitudes.)
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Chas’ reminder of Trump’s favorite verse reminds me of this. . .
YF one time shared three scriptures that she explained had always had an impact on her, that they “resonate” (I’m pretty sure that’s the word she used) in her spirit & are very meaningful to her.
One was the scripture about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven. Another was the one about not praying in public to be seen. (I forget the third, but it was somehow similar to those.) In other words, they were verses that were aimed at others, not herself. She is not rich, & she doesn’t pray in public, so she is not saying that these verses have affected her in a personal way, but in the past, she has expressed disdain for rich people, & in an email she once ranted about how so many Christians in churches were trying to impress everyone with fancy prayers or singing loudly.
Another time, she actually said she “loved” the scripture about the camel, needle, & rich person, which practically made me shudder. I explained to her that, compared to the rest of the world, she was rich herself.
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BG told me once that she was an atheist. I informed her she was no such thing. She was prayed into existence and that was all the proof she needed there was a God. I told her at most she could be agnostic, but she best get over it soon. 😉
I spent a portion of the night praying for the situation here at home. Not much has changed. I also prayed for her and for our trip.
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Wow, very perceptive Karen about those verses your friend likes. I hadn’t though of it that way, but of course – and how much easier it is for us to see others’ need for spiritual correction. 🙂 And how common for us to cherry-pick verses that suit our ‘political’ world view. Seems like those verses “fit” so well her critique of what’s wrong with others.
Wonder if she’ll realize that?
Good response you gave about her being ‘rich’ in the rest of the world’s eyes, you’d think that would bring it home. Jesus always very pointedly taught in a way that should prompt us to look inward first (hard), rather than at our neighbor’s shortcomings (easy and all-too natural for us).
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“Only the Holy Spirit can get through to someone who seems unteachable, but He does often work through our influence.”
True, he uses the means laid out in Scripture such as prayer and sharing the gospel as a very important part of his work in saving those he’s called to himself (and we are called to actively participate and not ignore that duty, with the status of each person’s soul ultimately in his hands). Pretty amazing, that.
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Kim – BG is included in my constant prayers for my own daughters, as is Ann’s L.
(If anyone else wants me to mention a young loved one by name in my prayers, just let me know. I do pray for all your families in a general way.)
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Donna, your comment about the unused Bible received as a child was timely. I just gave son a new ESV Bible that I thought would be good for church since he attends a PCA. He has used his NIV, imprinted with his name, that he received years ago from our former church (husband’s current church), and it is tattered.
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Young friend is missing the point of the camel and the eye of the needle in that only God could make it possible. It might be hard, it might be unlikely, but if it is God’s will, He will make it happen. She is making herself into a god of judgement, and unfortunately, acting like Satan in misuse of Scripture.
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It’s the motives behind prayer that are targeted as wrong by God, and also the thought that prayer must not be vain repetitions. Young friend may be finding excuse not to pray. Jesus taught about prayer and spoke the Lord’s prayer in a group setting and called on,’Our Father,’ which indicates, as our model prayer, that we do pray out loud in groups at ti!mes when appropriate. To cry out to Him in public in an orderly way is an indicator of faith and trust that He alone has power to remedy situations. It honors and glorifies Him when done with proper motives.
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Janice – YF has mentioned that she does pray.
But she has a bitterness towards other believers. She has written about how she thinks that so many Christians in churches are trying to prove what good Christians they are by praying fancy prayers, or singing too loudly, or ostentatiously (in her view) dropping their tithes & offerings into the offering plate. I really think she had her view too much on what others were doing, & misinterpreted their actions. (As I wrote above, she tends to ascribe bad motives to people.)
Reminds me of how my dad thought my pastor (the one we had several years ago) was arrogant. Pastor Wade was not arrogant at all, he was a humble, sincere man of God. But during prayer time, or worship, Pastor Wade would often have his head tilted back, eyes closed. To my dad, who was already hostile to evangelical Christianity (he’d only be in church for very special occasions, like a Christmas program the girls were in), he saw that stance as arrogant.
Then there was a time, many years ago, when Lee was feeling bitterness towards our church (he got over that, thankfully). Our worship leader was a boisterous singer & worshiper, whether leading worship or being in the pew while someone else led it. Lee started to see that as him showing off. But he really wasn’t, that was just his way – he radiated the joy of the Lord.
But those stories, & YF’s attitudes, illustrate how a bitter or skeptical attitude can color how we interpret what others do.
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Karen, does YF limit her expressions of prayer? Does she only pray privately? Just wondering. I think people generally evolve in their prayer life as they become mature believers. She is still young.
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Janice – Since she doesn’t go to church or any Bible study, then I’d say that she only prays alone.
She used to come to our Hope Group (small group) with her mom a few years ago, & I think she may have prayed aloud a time or two when we would pray for each other’s requests. The thing I think she disagrees with is when people pray before the congregation at church or church events. She thinks they try to sound superior to other Christians, & she sites the verse about not making a public show of prayers, but going into one’s prayer closet.
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Verses that most ‘resonate’ with me would definitely be gospel, not the law.
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Yes, Donna, I think for most sincere believers, the verses that resonate within us are the ones that either prick our own hearts or encourage us in some way.
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My brother, Mike, who’s been estranged from my parents for two years is on his way to their house. He should be there in twenty minutes. They don’t know he’s coming. Please pray he’d be well received. Thanks.
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Praying, Ann.
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Prayers, Ann.
6 arrows
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Praying for your family Ann. ❤
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A lady, Tracy, on one of the local Facebook pages posted about a “haunting” in her house that sounds to me like demonic activity ramping up. The incidents she wrote about were:
“. . .It crossed the line and attacked my boyfriend in his bedroom last week, apparently it grabbed him by the leg and tried to drag him out of bed, he woke up with his leg in the air and feeling something holding onto him and almost every night he’s talking in his sleep to someone in the room. A few nights ago . . . it sounded like he was choking. [Has been having these experiences for about 2 years] Everything from dishes being thrown, hearing voices. My friends have had experiences as well, being grabbed, seeing shadows/dogs barking at thin air. I’ve heard something massive stomping on my roof a few months ago, a friend saw a shape-shifter walking past the house as a man and morphed into a shadow figure. It’s nearly set the house on fire and surged out a light fixture.”
The replies she has gotten have all been about contacting a couple paranormal groups that deal with these things. I was so hoping someone (other than me) would offer a Christian response. My pastor suggested that since I am a member of the Facebook group, but he isn’t, that I make some contact with her & scope out her personal situation. Well, since I don’t know her personally, & haven’t had any Facebook discussions with her to build on, I was very nervous about that. (Pastor Billy also said that he would be glad to make contact with her, & even visit her house, after I make the initial contact.)
So, although I was very nervous about how to proceed, I prayed, then wrote a private message to her, being very careful to assure her I am only writing out of concern, & that she is under no obligation to answer me. I added a little humor to leaven the mood of the message.
I asked her if she or he had had any dabblings in or experience with the occult (Ouija boards, tarot cards, etc.), which can open a door to this kind of thing, & mentioned that sometimes emotional turmoil in a person’s life can open up a door, too. I then reiterated that I was only writing out of concern & that she can feel free to ignore my message. As I said, I was very careful to write in such a way that I didn’t come across as a busybody, or trying to blame them for what is going on.
Please pray for the Holy Spirit to intervene in this situation, to minister to Tracy & her boyfriend. Also, wisdom, insight & leading for me if she is open to further discussion on this with me.
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Pastor Billy did have me include that he has dealt with demonic activity before, & if she would like him to pray for her or offer any spiritual counsel, he would like to hear from her. I gave her his email address & the church’s phone number.
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Karen, you are doing the wise things.
It is not wise for people who have no experience with such to delve into such things.
This is a world not familiar to us. We need to stay out of it.
Unless, of course, we are directed to do so. That is another issue to be dealt with.
But curiosity is not a valid reason.
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Chas – Yes, I realize the seriousness, & potential danger, of the situation. Curiosity kills cats & gets people into trouble. 🙂
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Baby Anya has been moved from the ICU to a regular room and seems to be doing well; praise God and thanks for prayers.
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That’s wonderful, Michelle. Her parents & family must be so relieved & happy that things are going so well.
And it is also wonderful that Kathaleena’s newest granddaughter Annika no longer needs her feeding tube.
Praise God for touching these little ones!
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I, in my smug position of open mindedness and accepting modern belief, bought into the whole story of demonic possession or activity having been undiagnosed mental illness and Hollywood horror. I made that comment once in some sort of discussion with my priest in a church environment. Several there were quick to call my on it, including him. He said if you had ever been to Africa you would know it was real and it was evil.
Since that time I have circled back around to the belief that it is real. I know it. I have felt it in New Orleans when someone I was with wanted to go into a Voodoo shop just for the touristiness of it. I know that I would not be strong enough to combat it. I will leave that to those who know way more than I. I will do my best not to be exposed to any of it. I have prayed, “Jesus, please protect me from this”.
Karen, my advice would be that you have done the best you could.
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Thank you, Kim. My pastor said he thinks I handled it well. I really don’t want to get deeply involved, but strongly felt that a Christian voice was needed. It doesn’t look like the lady has seen my message yet, & she hasn’t commented anymore on her post.
Lee & I prayed for protection for ourselves & our family, as well as for that young couple.
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Something has happened that has hurt me and angered me. I am having a really hard time keeping my mouth shut. I need to keep it shut. I am not ready to have this argument yet. I need wisdom.
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Praying for all these situations and people. Our little Annika came home yesterday. We are rejoicing. She will have medical issues, but she is eating well. Her big brother and sister are thrilled. We saw her last week, but it will be awhile now.
Spent two full days moving a relative and cleaning up the pig sty in which he was living. “Love is patient and kind…” keeps running through my head. He did hear from all of us, but not sure anything will penetrate. He is a believer and even heads a bible study once a year. He does have mental health issues, but none of that excuses how he was living. This is not the first time we have gone through this. Hopefully, he will be doing better in his new senior living apartment.
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Lee rarely gets two days off in a row. We spent most of his two days off (yesterday & today) babysitting Forrest, who has a cold. Now Lee & I both feel like we are coming down with the cold. Since he had today off, he won’t have Wednesday off, meaning he won’t have another day in the week to rest. Please pray the cold virus passes him by quickly, & for strength for the coming week. Thank you.
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