… A popular quote by the renowned pastor Charles Haddon Spurgeon has been trending on social networking websites.
“Of two evils choose none,” Spurgeon once said. …
“Can a Christian vote for Donald Trump running against Hillary Clinton? I would say yes,” Dr. Land (president of Southern Evangelical Seminary) told me. “Is it okay for Christians to vote for Donald Trump? That’s a decision for each individual Christian to make for himself or herself.”
Land told me he plans to “vote against Hillary Clinton and I don’t believe in third party candidates.”
“I’m perturbed – deeply perturbed that I’m presented with such a lousy choice but that’s who the American people have selected,” Land said. “I suspect I am not alone among my fellow Americans in saying that I will cast my vote with no joy.” …
… “I’m not going to try and suggest that Donald Trump is in any way the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul,” (former Gov. Mike) Huckabee said. “But he’s been very open to not only dialogue with – but listen to and understand where many people in the faith community are coming from.” …
… So what’s a good Christian to do?
Pray, (Franklin) Graham said. …
(as for the Spurgeon quote): I would offer this rebuttal: not to vote is to vote.
____________________________
I shared that Spurgeon quote myself, but I also think each of us need to decide if the two nominees are just too “evil” to vote for, or if one is worth voting for despite our reservations.
Karen, that is true, it’s a very personal decision we’re all going to have to make, and not an easy one for most of us. I still debate what I will end up doing and won’t criticize those who decide differently. It’s just not a good year with good choices.
Having been a political science (double) major (with journalism) — and a reporter AND a Calvinist — I have always had a sometimes-brutally realistic view of politics and politicians in the secular realm (and also a pretty realistic view of the electorate, for that matter).
In other words, I don’t have a particularly high bar nor do I expect too much based on what I know of fallen human nature operating within a fallen world. I’ve not been a purist when it comes to political elections.
That said, our 2 choices in 2016 (one of the two will be our next president) may not even meet MY low bar of acceptability. 🙂
If I decide not to vote for president, I suspect I’ll still hope that Clinton loses, however.
Trump may be the lesser evil. Hillary may be the lesser evil. We know what Hillary stands for and it is bad. Trump has been all over the map – sometimes to the left of Hillary.
Then there is the issue of Trump’s personal character/manners/ vulgarity/sanity.
“Former President Bill Clinton was a much more frequent flyer on a registered sex offender’s infamous jet than previously reported, with flight logs showing the former president taking at least 26 trips aboard the “Lolita Express” — even apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights, according to records obtained by FoxNews.com.
Clinton’s presence aboard Jeffrey Epstein’s Boeing 727 on 11 occasions has been reported, but flight logs show the number is more than double that, and trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets around the world with Epstein and fellow passengers identified on manifests by their initials or first names, including “Tatiana.” The tricked-out jet earned its Nabakov-inspired nickname because it was reportedly outfitted with a bed where passengers had group sex with young girls.
“Bill Clinton … associated with a man like Jeffrey Epstein, who everyone in New York, certainly within his inner circles, knew was a pedophile,” said Conchita Sarnoff, of the Washington, D.C. based non-profit Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, and author of a book on the Epstein case called “TrafficKing.” “Why would a former president associate with a man like that?””
—————————
AJ, The general election campaign is very young. There has been one rape allegation already – from Ivana Trump. Trumpkins better hope that old Donald was careful to card any girls/women he was with when he ran with Jeffrey Epstein. Then again, maybe Trump was careful. After all, he said avoiding sexually transmitted diseases was his own personal equivalent of Vietnam.
I can see the campaign ads now:
Trump:
1. The entitlement policies of Hillary!
2. The trade and healthcare policies of Sanders!
3. The morals of Bill Clinton!
4. The sanity of George III!
Please pardon some of us while we vote for our pets.
Blame the culture which has produced Trump — crass? rude? a playboy? Sure. No one’s shocked by this, it’s been his persona throughout his life — and our culture in general has become so much like that, no one’s really blushing. I don’t like it. But I think it’s been proven by now that none of it particularly “shocks” anyone at this point. Everything is pretty much acceptable now.
And Trump has never portrayed himself as an altar boy. He’s always openly been a loose, devil-may-care persona and has never been a politician portraying himself as anything but that, to be honest (despite mom’s Bible held aloft at an early campaign appearance). No one really believes he’s a Christian. But it just doesn’t seem to matter with most of those who support him.
Meanwhile, I hear President Obama today was mixing it up in a commencement speech, going after Trump … What is he thinking? That can only help Trump. why doesn’t Obama realize that? He’s so cocky and so overtly (and condescendingly, smugly) partisan, I really can hardly bear to listen to more than a couple minutes of him anymore.
But the more he gets engaged in this election cycle, the more it will (I think) backfire on his party, which also is in plenty of disarray.
From Fox News: The Nevada State Democratic Convention on Saturday night devolved into an “unruly and unpredictable” environment following several disputes over rules governing delegates for Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, leading to law enforcement officials being called to keep the peace.
Bill Clinton and Trump may have both treated women horribly. However, from a political perspective it makes a difference that Trump also called them “pigs” and “dogs”.
The biggest cause of radical feminism is male misbehavior. This would include:
1.Sexual harassment;
2. Sexual assault;
3. Adultery;
4. Leaving the wife and kids for a younger woman; and
5. Berating female candidate and spouses for their appearance.
In the primaries, very little effort was made by the press to investigate Trump’s Mafia ties, his business blunders, his prior treatment of women. The press wanted him to win. They also had their hands full just reporting the moronic things he said the day before. All that will now change. I don’t know if it will make a difference. However, the press doesn’t have to change the public’s mind on Trump. They just have to keep him from changing the public’s mind. Almost 70% of Americans already dislike/hate Trump and there are virtually no undecideds.
I’m beginning to think I am too old to understand current politics. My son has been saying for months that Trump is just like Obama, but I couldn’t see the connection. The article at the top of the thread tied the two in a factual and humorous way, but my son’s arguments are different. He contends:
1. Both men took advantage of the rapidly growing ignorance of the public.
2. Both were vague so that their supporters were able to see them as whatever the supporters wanted to see.
3. Both used demagoguery to create scapegoats that allowed supporters to avoid any sense of responsibility for their own condition.
Wandering Views 
Some little liberals prefer Hillary. Some little liberals prefer Bernie. Some little liberals prefer Obama/Trump.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/05/is_trump_the_gops_obama_moment.html
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Well I still like little Marco.
But he crashed and burned, along with all the rest of them, long, long ago 🙂
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Todd Starnes (?) has a column today over at the Fox News website on the question of whether Christians can/should vote for Trump
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We’re all wrestling this year …
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/05/12/should-christians-vote-for-donald-trump.html
____________________
… A popular quote by the renowned pastor Charles Haddon Spurgeon has been trending on social networking websites.
“Of two evils choose none,” Spurgeon once said. …
“Can a Christian vote for Donald Trump running against Hillary Clinton? I would say yes,” Dr. Land (president of Southern Evangelical Seminary) told me. “Is it okay for Christians to vote for Donald Trump? That’s a decision for each individual Christian to make for himself or herself.”
Land told me he plans to “vote against Hillary Clinton and I don’t believe in third party candidates.”
“I’m perturbed – deeply perturbed that I’m presented with such a lousy choice but that’s who the American people have selected,” Land said. “I suspect I am not alone among my fellow Americans in saying that I will cast my vote with no joy.” …
… “I’m not going to try and suggest that Donald Trump is in any way the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul,” (former Gov. Mike) Huckabee said. “But he’s been very open to not only dialogue with – but listen to and understand where many people in the faith community are coming from.” …
… So what’s a good Christian to do?
Pray, (Franklin) Graham said. …
(as for the Spurgeon quote): I would offer this rebuttal: not to vote is to vote.
____________________________
Oy.
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I shared that Spurgeon quote myself, but I also think each of us need to decide if the two nominees are just too “evil” to vote for, or if one is worth voting for despite our reservations.
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Karen, that is true, it’s a very personal decision we’re all going to have to make, and not an easy one for most of us. I still debate what I will end up doing and won’t criticize those who decide differently. It’s just not a good year with good choices.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Prager the other day said the lesser of two evils is still a lesser evil … Many ways to look at all of this
LikeLike
Having been a political science (double) major (with journalism) — and a reporter AND a Calvinist — I have always had a sometimes-brutally realistic view of politics and politicians in the secular realm (and also a pretty realistic view of the electorate, for that matter).
In other words, I don’t have a particularly high bar nor do I expect too much based on what I know of fallen human nature operating within a fallen world. I’ve not been a purist when it comes to political elections.
That said, our 2 choices in 2016 (one of the two will be our next president) may not even meet MY low bar of acceptability. 🙂
If I decide not to vote for president, I suspect I’ll still hope that Clinton loses, however.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Trump may be the lesser evil. Hillary may be the lesser evil. We know what Hillary stands for and it is bad. Trump has been all over the map – sometimes to the left of Hillary.
Then there is the issue of Trump’s personal character/manners/ vulgarity/sanity.
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Now that Trump has vanquished the conservative candidate, expect the press to finally begin to report on his history of personal misbehavior.
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And I get the feeling none of that will matter
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Ricky,
And really, does the press really want to go there considering Trump’s opponent and the baggage she and her “first lady” will bring? I think not.
But hey, if they do, I’ll make popcorn and watch the show. 🙂
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html?intcmp=hpbt4
“Former President Bill Clinton was a much more frequent flyer on a registered sex offender’s infamous jet than previously reported, with flight logs showing the former president taking at least 26 trips aboard the “Lolita Express” — even apparently ditching his Secret Service detail for at least five of the flights, according to records obtained by FoxNews.com.
Clinton’s presence aboard Jeffrey Epstein’s Boeing 727 on 11 occasions has been reported, but flight logs show the number is more than double that, and trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets around the world with Epstein and fellow passengers identified on manifests by their initials or first names, including “Tatiana.” The tricked-out jet earned its Nabakov-inspired nickname because it was reportedly outfitted with a bed where passengers had group sex with young girls.
“Bill Clinton … associated with a man like Jeffrey Epstein, who everyone in New York, certainly within his inner circles, knew was a pedophile,” said Conchita Sarnoff, of the Washington, D.C. based non-profit Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, and author of a book on the Epstein case called “TrafficKing.” “Why would a former president associate with a man like that?””
—————————
That’s not a battle they’ll win.
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And that includes a long list of women willing to speak out about Bill’s behavior, and Hillary’s efforts to hide it all.
At least the women in Trump’s past aren’t claiming rapes, druggings, and sex with underage girls.
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AJ, The general election campaign is very young. There has been one rape allegation already – from Ivana Trump. Trumpkins better hope that old Donald was careful to card any girls/women he was with when he ran with Jeffrey Epstein. Then again, maybe Trump was careful. After all, he said avoiding sexually transmitted diseases was his own personal equivalent of Vietnam.
I can see the campaign ads now:
Trump:
1. The entitlement policies of Hillary!
2. The trade and healthcare policies of Sanders!
3. The morals of Bill Clinton!
4. The sanity of George III!
Please pardon some of us while we vote for our pets.
LikeLike
Blame the culture which has produced Trump — crass? rude? a playboy? Sure. No one’s shocked by this, it’s been his persona throughout his life — and our culture in general has become so much like that, no one’s really blushing. I don’t like it. But I think it’s been proven by now that none of it particularly “shocks” anyone at this point. Everything is pretty much acceptable now.
And Trump has never portrayed himself as an altar boy. He’s always openly been a loose, devil-may-care persona and has never been a politician portraying himself as anything but that, to be honest (despite mom’s Bible held aloft at an early campaign appearance). No one really believes he’s a Christian. But it just doesn’t seem to matter with most of those who support him.
Meanwhile, I hear President Obama today was mixing it up in a commencement speech, going after Trump … What is he thinking? That can only help Trump. why doesn’t Obama realize that? He’s so cocky and so overtly (and condescendingly, smugly) partisan, I really can hardly bear to listen to more than a couple minutes of him anymore.
But the more he gets engaged in this election cycle, the more it will (I think) backfire on his party, which also is in plenty of disarray.
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From Fox News: The Nevada State Democratic Convention on Saturday night devolved into an “unruly and unpredictable” environment following several disputes over rules governing delegates for Democratic presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, leading to law enforcement officials being called to keep the peace.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/15/nevada-democratic-convention-becomes-unruly-and-unpredictable-amid-rules-disputes-over-delegates.html
LikeLike
Bill Clinton and Trump may have both treated women horribly. However, from a political perspective it makes a difference that Trump also called them “pigs” and “dogs”.
The biggest cause of radical feminism is male misbehavior. This would include:
1.Sexual harassment;
2. Sexual assault;
3. Adultery;
4. Leaving the wife and kids for a younger woman; and
5. Berating female candidate and spouses for their appearance.
Trump is the poster child for male misbehavior.
LikeLike
Hands down, this is probably the most unpredictable, wild, crazy election cycle in our lifetimes.
1968 was pretty intense, but this has that beat already.
And we haven’t even hit the summer conventions yet.
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The press will seriously lay into Trump from here on out, but I doubt it will make much difference.
There were major, well-funded efforts among conservatives to stop him. Nothing worked.
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In the primaries, very little effort was made by the press to investigate Trump’s Mafia ties, his business blunders, his prior treatment of women. The press wanted him to win. They also had their hands full just reporting the moronic things he said the day before. All that will now change. I don’t know if it will make a difference. However, the press doesn’t have to change the public’s mind on Trump. They just have to keep him from changing the public’s mind. Almost 70% of Americans already dislike/hate Trump and there are virtually no undecideds.
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Trump’s misdeeds were brought up early, by many in the press and by Republican opponents and conservative writers — voters simply did not seem to care
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And let’s face it, no one thought he’d be a serious contender until .. Well, until he was
As I said, this has been a weirdly unpredictable election year
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I’m beginning to think I am too old to understand current politics. My son has been saying for months that Trump is just like Obama, but I couldn’t see the connection. The article at the top of the thread tied the two in a factual and humorous way, but my son’s arguments are different. He contends:
1. Both men took advantage of the rapidly growing ignorance of the public.
2. Both were vague so that their supporters were able to see them as whatever the supporters wanted to see.
3. Both used demagoguery to create scapegoats that allowed supporters to avoid any sense of responsibility for their own condition.
LikeLike