Former WMB regular Kyle writes, “Here are the votes on the omnibus spending bill. Take note of how your own Representative voted. Take note of how the Republican Party voted. There were 150 Republicans who voted Yea and 95 who voted Nay.
“What is the difference between the two parties when it comes to spending?”
Another friend, a frustrated conservative (who is now Libertarian) writes. . .
“We already knew the GOP is full of RINOs and progressives.
“The establishment are RINOs, so the base has been saying, and not true conservatives.
And now we find that the very same anti-establishment base is not conservative, and since they support Trump, are not real Republicans, i.e., they are themselves RINOs!
And they make up 40% of the GOP.
“It is almost amazing that the GOP has almost no Republicans, or conservatives, certainly almost zero libertarians in it.
“And no Constitutionalists either, since almost to the man they are for Trump, or for one of the neocons who support illegal undeclared war.
“The GOP is a zombie. There is no animating force left. All that remains is to pronounce death and proceed with the burial.”
What are we conservatives to do? It seems we’re “damned if we do, & damned if we don’t” vote for Republicans. The Libertarian party is what we call “fiscally conservative”, & truly against “big government” (which Republicans give lip service to, but don’t do anything about), but many of its other stands are not acceptable to many conservatives.
Great posts and questions, Karen O. Rather than distinguish between true Rs and RINOs, I think it’s more constructive to think of Christians versus non-Christians–and I use the term “versus” deliberately. I’m convinced we are ignorant and/or neglectful of just what the Bible calls politicians to do, and how we should really only support godly candidates. Does Donald Trump “kiss the Son” as he is *commanded* to do by God? No, so he shouldn’t get our vote. Republican or Libertarian or whatever (but not Democrat–that platform is satanic), vote only for the godly candidate. For the record, “godly” entails being wise, so any weak attempt to invoke Jimmy Carter doesn’t work.
Not sure that what this claims as Cruz’s real position on certain issues (same-sex marriage, Common Core, abortion) is actually bad. (He supposedly thinks they should be left to the states to decide, which is indeed a conservative position.) But if he is claiming he will do something about them as president (or that the federal government should) while not really believing that, then that is not right. (I haven’t been following the candidates exact policies close enough to remember how he has framed his positions.)
I don’t know, Karen O. I couldn’t find anything that was especially damning of Cruz in that article or the one it cited. It looks like a lot of conclusion based on not a lot of info (i.e., the “secret tapes”). The worst thing I see in my humble opinion is his not stating gay marriage is a ghastly abomination, instead just saying it’s a “states'” issue. What do you see about him that you didn’t like. [I’m not a Cruz backer; I just get tired of articles like this that make hasty conclusions, even if they’re about Hillary].
SolarPancake – It’s not that I’m against Cruz, but I was kind of sharing that to ask if it is true that he is “hiding” those positions or not. As I said, I haven’t been following closely enough to know the various candidate’ exact positions on everything. The article really did sound as if it were trying to stir up something out of nothing. After all, most conservatives, I think, would prefer those issues to be left to the states, so they would have no problem with his words on that supposed secret tape.
So my question would be – Has he indicated that he thinks those are states’ rights issues, or has he been proclaiming that he would do something about them as president? If the latter, than he could at least be accused of some kind of deceit.
Hi Karen O. I did understand that article didn’t necessarily reflect your views on Cruz, and I agree with the rest of your post. It’s an interesting question. I do like how Cruz has articulated some conservative positions, and he really seems to be able to think on his feet. There are a couple things about him I don’t care too much for, either. I hope neither he, nor any of the other candidates, are dishonest, though (I can hope…).
… What if Webb were to join the race as an independent? What would the likely effect be? Normally, one would think that if a Democrat jumps in as a third candidate, it will hurt the Democratic nominee. But I don’t think that is the case here, for two reasons.
First, Webb’s main focus is national security, where he is, relatively speaking, a hard-liner. … Moreover, Webb’s secondary appeal is to voters who are disgusted with both parties. Those voters are mostly Republicans, too, which is largely what fuels the Trump and Carson phenomena. Democratic voters in general are happier with our political system and with their party than Republicans. …
I suppose if Bernie Sanders ran as an independent, it would hurt Hillary Clinton–although even that isn’t entirely clear. Any other plausible independent candidate would hurt the Republican nominee. …
_____________________________________
I would consider voting for Jim Webb if Trump were running.
Which is the best liar? I know Hillary qualifies, but it has dawned on me recently that everything Obama says is a lie.
Everything.
Conservatives would probably back a (real) candidate if Trump (heaven forbid) happened to wind up with the GOP nomination.
But an independent candidate wouldn’t win, Hillary would.
I suspect the party will do all it can to make sure Trump isn’t their nominee. Of course, then he’ll cry foul and run as an independent, in which case … again, Hillary would win.
Interesting, just a few months ago prospects of a conservative being elected president (after the long 8 years of misery the country has been dragged through under Obama) looked pretty good. Not so much right now. 😦 But we’ll see.
Wandering Views 
Former WMB regular Kyle writes, “Here are the votes on the omnibus spending bill. Take note of how your own Representative voted. Take note of how the Republican Party voted. There were 150 Republicans who voted Yea and 95 who voted Nay.
“What is the difference between the two parties when it comes to spending?”
LikeLike
Another friend, a frustrated conservative (who is now Libertarian) writes. . .
“We already knew the GOP is full of RINOs and progressives.
“The establishment are RINOs, so the base has been saying, and not true conservatives.
And now we find that the very same anti-establishment base is not conservative, and since they support Trump, are not real Republicans, i.e., they are themselves RINOs!
And they make up 40% of the GOP.
“It is almost amazing that the GOP has almost no Republicans, or conservatives, certainly almost zero libertarians in it.
“And no Constitutionalists either, since almost to the man they are for Trump, or for one of the neocons who support illegal undeclared war.
“The GOP is a zombie. There is no animating force left. All that remains is to pronounce death and proceed with the burial.”
LikeLike
What are we conservatives to do? It seems we’re “damned if we do, & damned if we don’t” vote for Republicans. The Libertarian party is what we call “fiscally conservative”, & truly against “big government” (which Republicans give lip service to, but don’t do anything about), but many of its other stands are not acceptable to many conservatives.
LikeLike
Great posts and questions, Karen O. Rather than distinguish between true Rs and RINOs, I think it’s more constructive to think of Christians versus non-Christians–and I use the term “versus” deliberately. I’m convinced we are ignorant and/or neglectful of just what the Bible calls politicians to do, and how we should really only support godly candidates. Does Donald Trump “kiss the Son” as he is *commanded* to do by God? No, so he shouldn’t get our vote. Republican or Libertarian or whatever (but not Democrat–that platform is satanic), vote only for the godly candidate. For the record, “godly” entails being wise, so any weak attempt to invoke Jimmy Carter doesn’t work.
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Not sure that what this claims as Cruz’s real position on certain issues (same-sex marriage, Common Core, abortion) is actually bad. (He supposedly thinks they should be left to the states to decide, which is indeed a conservative position.) But if he is claiming he will do something about them as president (or that the federal government should) while not really believing that, then that is not right. (I haven’t been following the candidates exact policies close enough to remember how he has framed his positions.)
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/12/23/ted-cruz-busted-secret-tape-admitting-core-positions-fake.html
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I don’t know, Karen O. I couldn’t find anything that was especially damning of Cruz in that article or the one it cited. It looks like a lot of conclusion based on not a lot of info (i.e., the “secret tapes”). The worst thing I see in my humble opinion is his not stating gay marriage is a ghastly abomination, instead just saying it’s a “states'” issue. What do you see about him that you didn’t like. [I’m not a Cruz backer; I just get tired of articles like this that make hasty conclusions, even if they’re about Hillary].
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SolarPancake – It’s not that I’m against Cruz, but I was kind of sharing that to ask if it is true that he is “hiding” those positions or not. As I said, I haven’t been following closely enough to know the various candidate’ exact positions on everything. The article really did sound as if it were trying to stir up something out of nothing. After all, most conservatives, I think, would prefer those issues to be left to the states, so they would have no problem with his words on that supposed secret tape.
So my question would be – Has he indicated that he thinks those are states’ rights issues, or has he been proclaiming that he would do something about them as president? If the latter, than he could at least be accused of some kind of deceit.
LikeLike
Hi Karen O. I did understand that article didn’t necessarily reflect your views on Cruz, and I agree with the rest of your post. It’s an interesting question. I do like how Cruz has articulated some conservative positions, and he really seems to be able to think on his feet. There are a couple things about him I don’t care too much for, either. I hope neither he, nor any of the other candidates, are dishonest, though (I can hope…).
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Jim Webb running?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/12/jim-webb-for-president.php
__________________________________
… What if Webb were to join the race as an independent? What would the likely effect be? Normally, one would think that if a Democrat jumps in as a third candidate, it will hurt the Democratic nominee. But I don’t think that is the case here, for two reasons.
First, Webb’s main focus is national security, where he is, relatively speaking, a hard-liner. … Moreover, Webb’s secondary appeal is to voters who are disgusted with both parties. Those voters are mostly Republicans, too, which is largely what fuels the Trump and Carson phenomena. Democratic voters in general are happier with our political system and with their party than Republicans. …
I suppose if Bernie Sanders ran as an independent, it would hurt Hillary Clinton–although even that isn’t entirely clear. Any other plausible independent candidate would hurt the Republican nominee. …
_____________________________________
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Which one is the best liar? It might be a tie…
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426289/hillary-clinton-obama-benghazi-lie
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I would consider voting for Jim Webb if Trump were running.
Which is the best liar? I know Hillary qualifies, but it has dawned on me recently that everything Obama says is a lie.
Everything.
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Conservatives would probably back a (real) candidate if Trump (heaven forbid) happened to wind up with the GOP nomination.
But an independent candidate wouldn’t win, Hillary would.
I suspect the party will do all it can to make sure Trump isn’t their nominee. Of course, then he’ll cry foul and run as an independent, in which case … again, Hillary would win.
Interesting, just a few months ago prospects of a conservative being elected president (after the long 8 years of misery the country has been dragged through under Obama) looked pretty good. Not so much right now. 😦 But we’ll see.
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“In international bodies formed to deal with Third World problems, careers don’t get built on the truth.” The Camp of the Saints , p. 147
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