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Our Daily Thread 10-27-15

Good Morning!

For the next few days I’ll include several fall photos from around the country, sent in by you folks, as well as some of my own.

We’ll start with Janice. 🙂

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Anyone have a QoD?

 

41 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 10-27-15”

  1. Good morning to stateside friends, and good whenever to the rest of you-in’s.
    I had a friend in NC who told me about youin’s and we-in’s Not sure of the spellin’s 😉

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  3. The photos are from the Georgia side of Lookout Mountain. The last one, with the bench, is at Covenant College at an area they have fixed up for viewing and probably as a prayer garden Our son spent four years at this college, mostly without a.garden.
    Other photos are either hang glide view from Scenic Hwy. pull over or from Cloudland Canyon. This was a day trip for us.

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  6. I knew immediately that photo had to be from Janice. I haven’t been to Lookout Mountain since I was a child.
    Last night at Bible Study my priest and his wife were telling us about the 4 days they spent at a men’s prison–Fountain Correctional Facility—for Kairos. Many people write letters to the men to read during this 4 day period and there is a prayer (paper) chain hung around the room with the name of every person who has committed themselves to pray for these men over the 4 days.
    M said he learned of two new “religions” this past weekend. Three of the men described themselves as Moors and one as a Hebrew. A few men came to accept Jesus as their Saviour.
    Just hearing M and his wife B tell of it was bone chilling and heart warming. We didn’t study much in Revelation last night as we were talking about Kairos. He left us hanging on the meaning of 666.
    Your thoughts?

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  7. I’m off for my final day with the adorables. My other daughter-in-law is taking the three year old this morning so I can teach Bible study and pack for my trip tomorrow. It’s been a good four days, though I am so very tired and have done little but care for them. Stargazer has been a champ to take the night shift so I could have a couple hours at home and my own bed.

    Last night he and my husband sent me home at 7 to regroup which was very helpful since I hadn’t figured out my QOD:

    What are the rewards we’ll get in heaven?

    See you!

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  8. KIm, “Your thoughts?”
    You mean about 666? Or something else.
    I think I posted once a unique take on 666 from a book I read called God’s War on Terror I know I mentioned the book.
    I may enter some comments about that later.

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  9. Lovely photos, Janice! Our younger daughter attended Covenant for a year (loved it, but decided she couldn’t afford it), so I’ve been on that lovely campus a couple of times.

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  10. Concerning 666

    A couple of years ago, I read a book by Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson called God’s War on Terror. Shoebat has a different take on Revelation. He believes that the number of the dragon from the sea in Revelation 13 is the revived Islamic caliphate that was abolished in 1924. He says it will be restructured. But the thing abut the number 666 is strange. He says that it isn’t a number. The Greek letters Chi, Xi, Sigma, which John correctly interpreted as 666 (some say 616) are not the Greek letters at all. Shoebat says he saw three Arabic letters which he misinterpreted as 666.

    Shoebat says that the letters are Arabic, and when read as Arabic, actually are the Bilmilah. All Muslims repeat the Bismilah before speaking. I saw this at the Naval War College.
    The Bismilah, in English, say “In the name of Allah”
    I don’t read Greek, so I asked a guy who does (my SS teacher). He does not agree with Shoebat’s thesis. But he agrees that the Greek words could be read that way.

    Bottom Line:
    Shoebat believes that the dragon is the revived caliphate. It makes sense in the light of world events. However, taken together, the description in Revelation 13 appears to be of a real person. And the wound a real wound. Also, Daniel 11:21 speaks of a vile person who becomes powerful.
    The revived caliphate makes sense, but I don’t believe it’s the answer. But I am unconvinced either way about the 666 being the Bismilah. That makes lots of sense. It is already standard in Islam.

    Shoebat’s book, I would think, should be required reading for anyone interested in eschatology. I don’t agree with all his theories, but they should be considered.

    Most people around here are so convinced of a pre-trib rapture that they won’t consider anything else.

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  11. Here’s a good summation of the variety of views that have been in the church through the ages:

    http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/who-is-the-antichrist/

    I’m working from home this morning, I have some weird intestinal thing, probably food-related (I suspect an undercooked piece of meat), but I have my work computer here and can do a story easily enough without going in until this thing passes.

    Was up for a couple hours last night with it and it hit again first thing this morning.

    Ugh. Always something.

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  12. Interesting, Chas. I don’t think there is any biblical basis for a pre-tribulational rapture . . . and little basis for a still future rapture, though I’m less dogmatic on that second point than the first.

    Interesting Halloween couples: http://www.popsugar.com/love/Halloween-Couples-Costume-Ideas-2012-25249725?stream_view=1#photo-25491313 A few are PG and a bunch aren’t interesting to me since I don’t understand the context. But some are really great (some good takes on Ken and Barbie, for instance). Scroll down a little bit and the photos should all be on one page, just keep scrolling.

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  14. So was Janice hang-gliding with no car? I missed something I think …

    With the questions being raised about Seventh Day Adventists and whether or not the church is
    “Christian” (I have not heard that particular criticism — that they were entirely outside the faith — although I’ve always also understood that they strayed at some points from orthodoxy).

    Anyway, I found this interesting online tool that allows you to compare different traditions (I plugged in Adventists – Baptists – Protestants for the 3 columns).

    http://www.patheos.com/Library/Lenses/Side-By-Side?path1=x1574&path2=x776&path3=x838

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  15. Mormonism would be considered definitely outside the Christian faith.

    But I hadn’t heard it said the Adventists weren’t Christian (as is being reported in some news stories now regarding Be Carson) — anyone else ever hear that criticism per se?

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  16. On Seventh-day Adventists, Tim Challies did a post about the founder which raises some serious concerns: http://www.challies.com/articles/the-false-teachers-ellen-g-white

    On the number 666 (or 616): Well, Revelation clearly states that it is a number, of a man which makes me wonder if it referring to a manmade religion. As I’ve mentioned before, I tend to view Revelation as history seen from the spiritual angle. I think the mark of the Beast is not necessarily physical, as the mark of the children of God, which is also mentioned in Revelation, is obviously not physical. I suspect that the Beast is a fallen angel, the spirit of anti-Christ. John told us exactly what the spirit of anti-Christ does, it denies that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh (I John 4:2-3). When he was writing, it was the Gnostics doing it. A few generations later, Athanasius was using John’s words to fight Arianism, which once again denied Jesus’ deity. On it went throughout history – the Cathars, the Quakers, and now the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Now, Revelation also talks about a second beast, the false prophet, which gives power to the first. Once again, the phenomenon of a prophet bringing the revelation that Jesus isn’t who He said He was recurs throughout history. The most obvious example is Islam, but the Mormons also claim prophet status for Joseph Smith. There are other lesser known sects which were started by similar prophets. All of them do what John said the anti-Christ did, they deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Islam shares many things in common with Christianity; and it is possible to chat away with them about Abraham, King David, or Jonah, and get along quite well. But, the idea that Christ is the Son of God is totally offensive to them. It is the point at which many who come close to the Kingdom of God are afraid to go further, for fear of losing everything. As Christ said, He is the stone which the builders rejected (Matthew 21:42-44). Whatever receiving the mark of the Beast entails, it means one has to repudiate Christ.

    In the midst of the culture wars and religious conflicts, I sometimes fear Christians are in danger of losing sight of what is really important. Jesus Christ is the centre of history. We each stand or fall depending on what we believe about Him. Yes, belief in Him will make us act in a more moral way. It will also make us many enemies. However, ultimately, this is His story, and we and our time in history are only a part of His bigger plan. If we forget that, we play into the hands of that spirit of anti-Christ, and become nothing more than another religion of good works like Islam or Judaism. Standing against sexual perversion and injustice, even abortion, mean nothing if we are not putting Jesus Christ first. “Many will say unto Me, Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name cast out devils and done many wonderful works. Then will I profess unto them, Depart from me, you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.”

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  17. Roscuro, I’ve read that the White writings have been largely pushed aside by the denomination in more recent years. So while the denomination clearly had “cult-like” beginnings (no argument there), centered around an exact date of the return of Jesus, it may be growing to be more orthodox in its beliefs and practices with passing time?

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  18. I have not heard before that they are not considered to be Christian. That’s probably strategy to stir up confusion from certain news sources (as in divide and conquer).

    That comparison was helpful, Donna. Interesting that Adventists have footwashing along with their quarterly communion services.

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  19. Donna, here is the thing though, if Adventists are moving away from White, why don’t they just stop being Adventists? There is no need to keep the name if they have no ties to their historical roots. I personally know people from an Adventist sect, and I will say this, they do not think we are true believers. Even though they apparently do not believe in hell, one of them wrote to a sister in Christ warning that if this sister did not change her beliefs, she would not be saved. In other words, they do not share the same criteria for salvation that you and I share. Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ isn’t enough for them. In view of the harsh words Paul wrote to the Galatians about adding to grace, i.e. “you are fallen from grace”, that is deeply concerning.

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  20. But is that part of their doctrine — or simply how some use it (denying the faith of others)? I’m guessing it may have been originally the case but perhaps not necessarily now.

    Denominations change, some grow further from the truth, others shed some of the false ideas that they once held. I also suspect there are Adventists — and then there are Adventists. In other words, there may be different branches of even that small denomination, some more cult-like, others more broadly in the Christian realm.

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  21. We have a close family member who moved into Adventism. I would have to agree that they do not seem to believe in salvation thru grace and by faith in Jesus Christ. This person moved into more and more legalism until she moved into a melding of some of the major religions and New Ageism. She spreads a false gospel and runs down those who believe in the biblical Christ. (with both books and in person) She believes in a Christ, but of her own making.

    I would never say whether individuals who are attend Seventh Day Adventist churches are not Christians. God alone knows the heart. People often are quite inconsistent. Doctrine is always open for discussion, however.

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  23. From the Challies’ link (which probably sums it up in general with regard to the current state of the denomination? — in other words, a mixed bag, depending on the congregation):

    “There are too many problems within Seventh-day Adventism to recommend it as a safe church. Though there are Seventh-day Adventist groups that are within orthodoxy, there are too many of them that are not.”

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  24. Kathaleena, sounds like people I’ve known as well — they start in a place but then move rapidly into other places, each further and further removed from the truth. Thinking of one recently divorced mom I knew who came from fundamentalism, then to Catholicism (her husband was Roman Catholic) then the Quakerism (which is where our paths crossed) then on to Eastern Orthodoxy (not that that’s further from the truth, but by then she was almost frantically searching for *something* — she was ready to join an Eastern Orthodox convent during her last visit to my house) — and then, ultimately, she wound up in a New Age group that believed in extra terrestrials (we are in California, after all).

    I lost touch with her after that, though wrote to her that I was very concerned she’d abandoned the faith she knew was the truth (she never responded).

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  25. They also definitely believe in soul sleep. That was a big part of a discussion we had with one of them. They sound like Christians, but there is something not right about them. Those I have encountered match the Patheos description (I compared Baptist, Anabaptist and Adventist), and I couldn’t help noticing a few things in that comparison, such as their belief that the body, soul and spirit are bound together, their belief that this present age is entirely evil, their emphasis on the Ten Commandments and things like diet as part of being godly – which again calls to mind Paul’s warning about those who say “Touch not, taste not ,handle not – all of which have a Gnostic tendency. We witnessed how that strict diet impacted the health of their children negatively, to the point where they needed medical intervention. It all was so much like a cult. I’m even less comfortable with calling Adventists Christians than I am in calling the pope a Christian.

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  26. Why do people post pictures of their food on FB? Like plates heaped with whatever at some restaurant?

    I realize it must look “good” in person if you’re hungry — but in a photo it all kind of looks disgusting. Even when I feel better than I feel today it looks just vaguely gross to me.

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  27. I noticed that, too, roscuro (spellcheck keeps wanting to change your name to rescuer, just so you know 🙂 ).

    I’d never send someone to an Adventist church — but I’m guessing there are congregations among them that fall more in line with evangelical Christianity than they do historic Adventist belief.

    Some weird stuff was going around in the 1800s, though — that’s also when Christian Science (now that’s clearly not Christian, though it uses Christian language and terminology, just with different definitions) and some of the other metaphysical religions got their start and became so popular in America. There was fertile soil for heresies during that century and on into the next.

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  30. Donna, the more I learn about the 1800s, the more I realize how that apparently Christian era was very rotten. Even a lot of the revivalists like Charles Finney were really shaky on foundational Christian doctrines. Billy Sunday was also problematic (not quite in the 1800s, but came from that tradition). Nothing that you could put your finger on, as one can with the Mormons, but it was Christianity without a centre – that centre being Christ.

    Note: D.L. Moody isn’t included in that criticism.

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  31. My Bible study mutinied oday on the discussion of rewards in heaven. I had to get the pastor to come in and talk with us. 🙂

    I’m so glad I’m going on vacation . . . . though the niece has just asked if she needs to arrange childcare for the baby on Thursday or was I willing to take both kids . . . . 🙂

    I told her to do whatever works best for her, I’m in total grandma mode at the moment. She then told me there’s supposed to be snow . . .

    Grandmas bake cookies, right? 🙂

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  32. Thanks for the discussion on Seventh Day ADventists–my daughter has applied to Loma LInda medical school and recently called to ask questions. I’ve readacted all your names and everything that wasn’t pertinent (beautiful photos), and sent it to her.

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  34. I haven’t had a whole lot of contact with Seventh Day Adventist doctrine, but I have had some discussions with them, and overall I’m completely unimpressed. Plus, parts of the South are plastered with “Sunday worship is the mark of the beast!” billboards that look like really bad tracts. Here’s an academic-looking discussion of why those of us who worship on the Lord’s day have taken “the mark of the beast.” Interestingly, they pretend there is no biblical warrant for the change, and don’t mention the resurrection at all. Instead, they quote Roman Catholic sources that claim they made the change just because they had the power to do it–I suspect those quotes are actually bogus, because even Rome can figure out that the New Testament talks about worshiping in the first day of the week. Anyway, here’s the link. Scan through the stuff about the pope being the Antichrist and the beast and then you’ll get to the portion about what the mark of the beast is. http://www.sabbathtruth.com/faq/advanced-topics/the-sabbath-and-the-mark-of-the-beast It does look rather like they are saying the rest of us are damned. If this is official doctrine, then, yes, it is heresy.

    I got into a discussion with one of them once who was arguing that drinking wine is bad, and he had an answer to every verse I gave him. I finally said that to be consistent, he needed to avoid any fermented food, and I gave him a list (e.g., cheese, pickles) and he said yes, he should be moral enough to avoid all of those.

    I honestly don’t know if they base their salvation on the finished work of Christ. What little I’ve seen of them would tell me they do not, but I can’t say that definitively. It does, however, concern me that Ben Carson is one. I don’t think SDA is in the same camp as Mormons or JWs . . . but I wouldn’t bet on that. I honestly don’t know. But I think they are trouble.

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  36. Cheryl, sometimes those kind of sites can be unintentionally humorous. There was a point in all that which said something like, the mark won’t become physical until worship on Sunday is made law (worship on Sunday being the mark of the beast in their opinion). I really can’t see the Blue Laws being brought back any time soon.

    Cheryl, it doesn’t so much bother me that Carson is an Adventist, as that people insist on saying he is a Christian. He may or may not have a personal faith in Christ, that is between him and God; but the public endorsements calling him a Christian mean that not only his personal faith, but also his church, whose doctrines are not Scriptural, are being endorsed. If people agree with Carson’s politics, by all means, vote for him; but there is no need to endorse his or any other political figure’s religion. [Not to mention that the American Constitution does not make religion a test for office.] Christ respected Caesar’s right to tax and Paul appealed to Caesar without either one endorsing Caesar’s claims to deity. It is possible to honour a political leader who is not a Christian (indeed we are commanded to honour all who are in authority); but it is not possible to call that same leader a Christian and honour Christ.

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  37. WHATHAPPENED TO THE PICTURE?
    I was sitting here waiting for the site to come up and all I got was a blank screen. After a while, I mover the coursor and here you str!

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