“…what cannot be debated is that the national outrage against Kim Davis has nothing to do with her refusing to obey the law and everything to do with her Christian beliefs.
Had she found herself on the opposite end of the conflict and had she stood for “gay rights,” refusing to obey a law that she felt discriminated against them, she would be praised from coast to coast.
Instead, she is being vilified in the ugliest terms and has quickly become the target of death threats simply because, in conscience before God, she cannot comply with the judge’s order.”
“What, then, is the difference between Newsom, who did not lose his job and who spent no time in jail, and Davis, who was told by the judge that she would be jailed until she complied?
Newsom stood for redefining marriage, Davis is standing for marriage as God intended it and, more fundamentally, is refusing to violate her conscience as a Christian – and that, not the breaking the law, is the issue at hand.
Make no mistake about it. Following Jesus in America today will be increasing costly until God’s people awaken and stand.
In the twelve years since US foreign policy became insane and dangerous, Russia and Germany have emerged as voices of reason and advocates of stability. As Putin moves to stabilize Syria and weaken ISIS, we should all hope the U.S. stays out of the way.
Ultimately, China and India will be the great powers of this century. Until that happens, Russia and Germany must provide leadership.
The U.S. did a good job of world leadership in the 20th century under wise leaders such as Eiisenhower, Reagan and even Big Bush. That time is over.
A friend on Facebook shared this, from a conservative Republican lawyer in Kentucky. (Again, as I said on the main thread the other day, I’m not arguing for or against her actions, but am considering the varying arguments.)
The same friend who shared this said that the argument that she took an oath under one law & shouldn’t have to recognize this new law is specious, as laws change or are amended all the time. (Again, just sharing for your consideration. Don’t shoot the messenger. 🙂 )
From J. Russell Lloyd:
“So the saga continues. For those of you who are not very political or are not from our fair (usually) Commonwealth, Judge David Bunning imposed a sentence of incarceration for civil contempt on Kim Davis, the County Clerk of Rowan County for her failure to comply with an Order from his Court, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky. The sentence is for a violation of an Order of the Court; not because Ms. Davis is Christian and not because Ms. Davis believes that same sex marriage is a sin. …
“First, Judge Bunning was appointed by President Bush (43) and is the son of retired Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning. He is a conservative through and through. The Bunnings do not take their political beliefs lightly.
“Second, this is the only time that I can remember seeing a contemnor get through an entire appellate process before being required to comply with a Court Order. Usually, one is required to comply with an Order of the Court regardless of the appeal. If compliance is refused, then a contempt sentence is enforced, regardless of whether or not you are appealing the Order. Kim Davis got special treatment on this issue.
“Kim Davis is in jail because she willfully and intentionally violated an Order of the Court. She received all the due process allowed her (all the way to the US Supreme Court). She no longer has any cause (good or otherwise) to refuse compliance with a Court Order in a Nation of Laws.
“Third, Judge Bunning threw Ms. Davis a life preserver. After imposing a sentence for contempt, Judge Bunning took a break. When Court resumed, he interviewed the Deputy Clerks for Rowan County as to whether they would comply with his Order. Five (5) of the six (6) deputies affirmed that they would comply with his Order. He then recalled Ms. Davis and asked whether she could refrain from interfering with the deputies while they issued marriage licenses. If she would do that, then he was satisfied that she was not in contempt and could go home. Ms. Davis refused even that much. Ms. Davis’ guarantee of personal religious freedom does not extend her the right to impose those beliefs on others, particularly when she is acting as the government.
“Predictably, an outcry of judicial tyranny and religious persecution has arisen. This is not religious persecution. In the United States, we do not examine the sincerity or reasonableness of your religious beliefs in the public arena. You can believe any and everything in the name of your faith. However, the government may not deny you services based upon the religious belief of the government, its agents or employees. When that happens, then a clear violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment occurs, which is precisely what happened when Ms. Davis refused to issue marriage licenses under “God’s Authority”.
“As far as judicial tyranny goes, the outcry is completely unwarranted. Ms. Davis is subject to the jurisdiction (read authority) of the Court. She got access to justice in a way that few will ever experience. She was given special consideration at every step. This is not tyranny by any conceivable definition of the word, and to call it tyranny diminishes the claimant.
“For those who may be tempted to take the outcry seriously, let me ask you to consider whether you would tolerate a government that denied you access to services and status available to everyone else because of religious beliefs that you did not share. If we are to continue to be a nation of laws, then we must do so much better. We must stop giving attention and authority to those who seek to take us back to a time when the government cried “God Wills It” and the cry became law.”
“Marion County Judge Vance Day is being investigated by a judicial fitness commission in part over his refusal to perform same-sex marriages on religious grounds, a spokesman for the judge said.
When a federal court ruling in May 2014 made same-sex marriage legal in Oregon, Day instructed his staff to refer same-sex couples looking to marry to other judges, spokesman Patrick Korten said Friday.
Last fall, he decided to stop performing weddings altogether, aside from one in March that had long been scheduled, Korten said.
“He made a decision nearly a year ago to stop doing weddings altogether, and the principal factor that he weighed was the pressure that one would face to perform a same-sex wedding, which he had a conflict with his religious beliefs,” Korten said.”
And then there’s this one. A judge refusing to grant a heterosexual divorce because…. gay marriage.
You’ll have to excuse the liberal WaPo, they can’t help but let their disdain for the judge show thru in their biased reporting. But the judges words are what are really of interest anyway, not their sniping, so I’ve selected the part with quotes from him.
“But it was his argument against the divorce that has made waves around the world.
After quickly running through court testimony about money trouble, a temporary restraining order and claims of infidelity, Atherton jumped into a bold legal analysis that drips with sarcasm.
“The Tennessee Court of Appeals has noted that Obergefell v. Hodges … affected what is, and must be recognized as, a lawful marriage in the State of Tennessee,” Atherton began. “This leaves a mere trial level Tennessee state court judge in a bit of a quandary. With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’ s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.”
“The majority’ s opinion in Obergefell, regardless of its patronizing and condescending verbiage, is now the law of the land, accurately described by Justice Scalia as ‘a naked judicial claim to legislative— indeed, super-legislative— power,’” Atherton continued.
The Supreme Court’s decision was “troubling” because it amounted to a “judicial fiat,” Atherton argued. “… What actually appears to be the intent and (more importantly) the effect of the Supreme Court ruling is to preempt state courts from addressing marriage/divorce litigation altogether.”
“Perhaps Tennessee’s perspective concerning keystones and central institutions must submit to the perspective of those so much higher and wiser than ourselves,” he wrote sarcastically before essentially accusing the Supreme Court of trashing Tennessee’s constitution, if not democracy itself, by legalizing gay marriage.”
I’ve read the U.S. Constitution (including the improperly adopted 14th Amendment), and I am confident there is nothing in there requiring a clerk to issue a marriage license to two perverts of the same gender.
I know the Kentucky Constitution doesn’t require it, so Mrs. Davis is being jailed for following God’s law and the law of her state.
The poor judge in Oregon tried to avoid controversy, but that is impossible in the Perverted States of America. Christians in the US need to understand several things:
1. The strongest commitment of the U.S. government is to perversion. If you doubt that, consider what was the one value Obama promoted while in Africa.
2. If you are an elected official or employee of the U.S, or any of its states, counties or cities, you will be required to promote perversion, even as German officials and employees were required to support Hitler from 1933-1945.
3. If you are an officer of a major US corporation, you will be required to support perversion or you will lose your job.
4. If you teach at a public school or college in any of the fifty states now under the control of the U.S. government and you oppose perversion, your job is in danger.
5. If you work for a major US bank or other corporation, you will be required to support perversion. If you object you will be fired or receive no other promotions.
6. If your church or Christian school teaches Biblical truth on sex and marriage, it will come under increasing attack by the government of the Perverted States of America.
Citizens of the U.S. have four choices: Conform, emigrate, hide or rebel. Mrs. Davis chose to rebel. As a fellow Southerner, I respect that choice.
I guess now the question is: Should Kim Davis resign, since she does not want to fulfill this part of her job? Many Christians have resigned jobs or not taken them in the first place because of requirements they felt violated their faith.
One of the questions I’ve seen a few times is if Christians would also support a Quaker or Mennonite county clerk who refuses to issue gun permits.
Personally, I would resign. In fact, I would not run for any office in the US as it currently exists for all the reasons stated above. Going back to the Nazi Germany analogy, the wisest move is probably to lay low until you can emigrate to a nation not under the control of Organized Perversion. However, I have a lot of respect for someone who will fight and even go to jail for her beliefs. It is the action of someone who has not given up on her country.
I would not agree that Kim Davis is unwilling “to fulfill part of her job”. Nothing in Kentucky law requires a clerk to grant a marriage license to two perverts. If the people of her County support perverted marriage let them vote her out.
The Mohler column I shared earlier in the week asks whether Christians of conscience on these matters will, in fact, simply have to remove themselves from government service (and many privatee sector posts as well) if no accommodation provisions are allowed. So, yeah, resigning and not running for these offices is a very real option
DonnaJ, The Mohler article was good. I really think it is important that we tell our children what they will face in the future. Most will probably choose to lay low (Dreher’s Benedictine Option). A few will emigrate. Sadly, many may compromise or join the enemy in the face of relentless pressure. However, if there is anything left of our national character, there will be some who will rebel.
I have made clear how little I think of Trump. Most people I know who support him are not very bright or well-educated. The only positive aspect I see in the Trump Movement is that it is a form of rebellion.
“In Alabama, the law states that probate judges “may” issue the licenses rather than “shall.” At least 10 counties and potentially as many as 15 had shuttered their marriage license operations as of Wednesday with no date for relaunching them, according to Ianthe Metzger of the Human Rights Campaign.
In North Carolina, a law allowing officials to refrain from conducting marriage-related duties has led to more than 30 magistrates refusing to perform same-sex unions, AP reported.
Since the law went into effect in June, officials with a “sincerely held religious objection” can forgo performing marriages. Only Utah has a similar law, AP reported.
Sen. Phil Berger, R-N.C., said the law is most likely preventing a situation similar to the case involving Davis in the county.
“It’s keeping folks from having to choose between their jobs and their religious beliefs,” Berger, told AP. “I think that’s important.””
—————————–
Gay activists aren’t interested in a workable truce on the matter. They’re demanding submission, and won’t permit folks to publicly oppose them. They won’t tolerate an opposing view.
I was surprised at the venom that was so obviously dripping throughout the conversation I walked in on about Davis the other day in the newsroom (mainly because these weren’t the liberal reporters, but more of the newsroom clerks).
Punish her. Keep punishing her. Punish her good.
Wow.
Then they aired all her dirty laundry.
Liberals really are now calling for a government that puts its boot on your neck.
In my Quaker days, I dated a guy (also Quaker) who had participated in some sort of civil disobedience and managed to get arrested. He kept his plastic handcuffs hanging from something in his car (rear view mirror? Can’t remember). But they were truly considered a badge of honor. 🙂
I’m sure I told the story of our friend who was arrested during Operation Rescue in the early 80s. (Shocking to think I’m now the age she was then).
She went to trial, was convicted to a week in the Sybil Brand Institute for Women. Her sentence was delayed so she could finish serving jury duty. (You can’t make this stuff up).
She and several other women went to serve their time. She later said it was the most rewarding spiritual experience she’s ever had. She woke up every morning to minister and pray with the “real” inmates until late at night. She came home thrilled to have been arrested and sent to jail.
My husband likes to say if Christians won’t go into the prisons on their own volition to minister, God will send them. Perhaps this is?
Russell D. Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission: The government “ought to provide its employees with all protections possible to the furtherance of maintaining public order. There are better solutions available than the one in Kentucky that needlessly pits the rule of law against freedom of conscience. The governor and legislature of Kentucky could act to accommodate county clerks whose consciences object to issuing same-sex marriage licenses while still maintaining the rule of law.”
Terry Mattingly at the Get Religion journalism blog: “… there are old-school liberals who want to defend same-sex marriage AND religious liberty. …”
The problem is that we have no “rule of law”. When liberal judges can invent a “right” to kill your baby or a “right” to “marry” someone of the same gender, the law means nothing. We are simply living under the tyranny of liberal judges and Obama.
Interesting, too, to revisit MLK’s letter from jail:
““One may well ask, ‘How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?’” King continued. “The answer is found in the fact that there are two types of laws: There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that ‘an unjust law is no law at all.’
“Now, what is the difference between the two?” wrote King. “How does one determine when a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas, an unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law.”
Kristol: “Republicans have a problem, while Democrats have a crisis. … Republicans face a few months of turmoil and recriminations. The Democrats have a much more unpleasant prospect. They long ago settled on their inevitable bride, the nuptials have been scheduled seemingly forever … and now they realize they’ve made a terrible mistake. …”
“What to do? Go ahead with an ill-advised marriage, with no prospect of no-fault divorce until it’s too late? Or call off the wedding when the invitations have already gone out? And then find someone else? They’d almost surely be better off admitting the mistake and spending some time playing the field—but that’s easier for me to say than for them to do. And who tells the bride the wedding’s off?”
“… Sanders’ rise reflects Hillary’s email server troubles, to be sure, but more fundamentally–I am repeating myself here–the fact that she is an awful candidate. ..”
Karen’s quoted commentary at 2:53 mirrors my opinion. Since the law changed after she took the job I can grant her a bit of a break but when she refused to let her deputies grant the license she crossed the line to using a state office to push her beliefs on others.
I’ve seen the Quaker analogy but also a Muslim analogy on inspecting places that served pork products. A Muslim woman serves as chief inspector of food processing (or whatever the title is). After assuming the job, a pork processing plant is established in her district. Can she refuse to inspect the plant thereby preventing normal operations? Or should she be forced to resign as she won’t perform her job? Or given that she has subordinates under her, should she allow a subordinate to inspect and license the plant? The latter is appropriate and is exactly what happened in Kentucky once Davis was removed/jailed.
Ricky — Assad controlled Syria is the home of Russia’s only overseas naval base. Putin has no interest in the success or failure of ISIS operations in eastern Syria/western Iraq as long as his Mediterranean port is safe.
Clinton still leads the Republican field but barely. Biden is actually polling better against Republicans — maybe acting like you don’t want it may work for him. Sanders still polls behind a Republican competitor but he’s only a percent or two behind — margin of error territory. Sanders polling that well is impressive in that he still hasn’t got the name recognition of the other candidates.
HRW, It is true that unlike Little Bush and Obama, Putin acts in his own nation’s interest. However, he has also consistently promoted stability. Since 2003, the actions and policies of the U.S. in the Middle East have caused death, war, refugees, revolutions, massacres, anarchy, turmoil and instability. During this period, Putin and Merkel have acted to check US stupidity and to clean up the mess.
ricky — I’ll give you the instability piece. However, I don’t think Putin has been promoting stability — his actions in Ukraine alone are bad enough, but the Syrian civil war would’ve never dragged on if he hadn’t given Assad support. Merkel — on the other hand is promoting stability but stability is in the interests of the EU which has a self interest in maintaining the status quo in international economics and diplomacy.
If Assad had fallen, do you think Syria would have been peaceful and stable? Like Libya and Iraq? Putin is now gaining confidence as it becomes more clear that the U.S. has morphed from a bull in a china shop to a paper tiger. He will establish peace in Syria.
Those (like Merkel and Putin) who promote stability always do so in the interest of their own nations. The foolish idealists like Woodrow Wilson, Carter, Little Bush and Obama hurt the interests of their own nation and cause horrible suffering in other places.
Putin explained his view of the new East/West Cold War to Merkel. Just as Reagan understood that it was his duty (along with Thatcher and John Paul II) to prevent the spread of Soviet communism, Putin understands that it is his duty (along with the Orthodox Church, India, and various Muslim, African and Asian nations) to prevent the spread of Western perversion. Merkel now works with Putin on a variety of security issues, but she understands (from conversations with Putin) that he will not compromise on the issue of perversion which Putin sees as a grave threat to Western Civilization.
Why aren’t the 57 predominantly Muslim countries accepting more Syrian refugees?
Also, if they are truly refugees, and not economic migrants, then why aren’t they stopping in Greece, Bulgaria, and Hungary, instead of heading further north to Germany and Sweden which have farther-reaching, more “advanced” welfare states?
And why now, when the Syrian Civil War began in earnest in 2011?
Tychicus, You make a good point. The refugees are fleeing to Europe for economic reasons as well as because of political turmoil. The situation is like Mexico 100 years ago during the Revolution. Around a million people were killed during the Mexican Revolution. My wife’s family fled to Texas at that time. They could have gone to other Latin American countries, but Texas offered more safety and economic opportunity, though it wasn’t a Nordic welfare state.
Push and pull factors — the obvious push is the civil war, the pull to certain countries is the ability to offer a better opportunity to one’s family. The pull doesn’t dismiss the initial push. Sure the refugees could go elsewhere but once you are forced to move, you would be stupid not to move to the best location.
Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have take millions of refugees since the Iraqi conflict and then the Syrian civil war. Both Lebanon and Jordan can’t absorb the refugees — the former can barely run a proper garbage service in its own country let alone absorb a million refugees to a very delicately balanced state, the latter has absorbed Palestinian and Iraqi refugees and now has an additional million Syrian. The Gulf Emirates and the Saudis are the problem — and the rest of the middle east knows it, the emirs funded Sunni insurgency and then ISIS but won’t take any responsibility for the blowback.
When the Christian and humanist/atheist west take the refugees rich Muslims won’t take, it does get noticed. Many refugees openly admit they’d rather go to the west then live in a Muslim country and they are embarrassed by their fellow Muslim’s inaction. Perhaps Christians could look at this as an opportunity to demonstrate the emptiness of Islamic rhetoric. Or perhaps we can all act like human beings and just help each other out without reference to political and religious rivalries.
It should also be noted that the birthrate in Europe is nowhere near replacement levels. Just as continued U.S. population growth (and economic growth) is dependent on immigration, Europe may see its predicted population drop reversed by immigration.
I understand the argument made by Trump and others that the U.S. and Europe are committing cultural suicide by allowing large scale immigration. Unfortunately, the culture of native-born Americans and Europeans in 2015 isn’t all that great. Any American Christian who has visited churches in developing countries returns home with a new appreciation of our economic wealth and the character of the foreign Christians. A little injection of immigrants may do us and the Europeans some good.
My Austrian friend is somewhat outraged by the refugee crisis (he’s well educated so he masks his outrage). He’s lived in Canada for over 20 years and is still puzzled by the fairly open and popular acceptance of immigration/refugees. However, Canadians instinctively know precisely what you state — demographics, infusion of new energy, etc., — and thus usually approve of immigration. Thus, the current Syrian crisis (and the picture of the drowned child who has Canadian relatives) has made our Conservative gov’t reelection chances even more negligible.
You need to look at those poll numbers again. The only matchup Clinton leads in, is against other Democrats, and one in NH where she’s ahead of Trump by one point..
“Sunday, September 6
Race/Topic (Click to Sort) Poll Results Spread
Iowa: Trump vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Trump 48, Clinton 43 Trump +5
Iowa: Bush vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Bush 50, Clinton 39 Bush +11
New Hampshire: Trump vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Clinton 46, Trump 45 Clinton +1
New Hampshire: Bush vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Clinton 43, Bush 48 Bush +5
Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus NBC/Marist Trump 29, Carson 22, Cruz 4, Walker 5, Bush 6, Fiorina 5, Rubio 4, Huckabee 3, Paul 5, Jindal 4, Kasich 2, Christie 2, Santorum 1, Perry 0, Graham 0 Trump +7
Iowa Democratic Presidential Caucus NBC/Marist Clinton 38, Sanders 27, Biden 20, O’Malley 4, Webb 2, Chafee 1 Clinton +11
New Hampshire Republican Presidential Primary NBC/Marist Trump 28, Kasich 12, Bush 8, Fiorina 6, Carson 11, Cruz 5, Walker 4, Paul 5, Christie 5, Rubio 3, Huckabee 2, Graham 1, Jindal 1, Perry 0, Santorum 0 Trump +16
New Hampshire 2016 Democratic Primary NBC/Marist Sanders 41, Clinton 32, Biden 16, Webb 1, O’Malley 1, Chafee 0 Sanders +9”
“Hillary Clinton would lose the swing state of Iowa to several potential Republican opponents, according to a new poll from a Democratic-leaning company.
The Public Policy Polling (PPP) survey released Tuesday showed Clinton getting the worse of match-ups against GOP candidates Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and retired surgeon Dr. Ben Carson.”
“Other polls show Clinton well ahead in Iowa of her rivals for the Democratic nomination, but the new survey is likely to add to the sense that Clinton could be vulnerable in a general election battle.
A recent survey by Quinnipiac showed Clinton trailing GOP candidates in the swing states of Iowa, Colorado and Virginia. Other polls have suggested voters don’t trust Clinton.”
“Five of the wealthiest Muslim countries have taken no Syrian refugees in at all, arguing that doing so would open them up to the risk of terrorism. Although the oil rich countries have handed over aid money, Britain has donated more than Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar combined.
Between 10 and 12 million Syrians have been displaced by the bloody civil war raging in their country. Most still remain within Syria’s borders, but around four million have fled over the borders into neighbouring countries, mostly Turkey Jordan and Lebanon, and beyond.
Lebanon, which has 1.1 million Syrian refugees, shut her borders to the Syrians in June of last year. Jordan, host to another 630,000, followed suit in August last year, preventing more Syrians from abandoning their country.”
“Yet amidst cries for Europe to do more, it has transpired that of the five wealthiest countries on the Arabian Peninsula, that is, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain, not one has taken in a single refugee from Syria. Instead, they have argued that accepting large numbers of Syrians is a threat to their safety, as terrorists could be hiding within an influx of people. Sherif Elsayid-Ali, Amnesty International’s Head of Refugee and Migrants’ Rights, has slammed their inaction as “shameful”.”
Young,healthy, and overwhelmingly male. Not to mention most are carrying their expensive IPhones. Are they really fleeing war, or just taking advantage of the situation?
“They are young. They are fit. They clearly know what they want. They have no intention of staying and fighting in Syria. Instead they have travelled overland through Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Serbia and into Hungary. They say their last stop is Germany.
None of them wants to stay in Hungary or any of they countries they have transited. As one they see Germany as a future because Chancellor Angela Merkel told them so. Besides, Hungary police want to fingerprint them, check any travel documents and stop their progress as specified by EU regulations.
The Aleppo Boys want none of it. They understand why some of their compatriots broke out of a refugee camp on Friday night and decided to try and walk to Germany.
“No good here in Hungary. No good,” said their leader Muhammad. “They try and lock us up. But we want Germany, there it is good. We have to worry about nothing there. They give us food and house and job.”
“Yes, there are families in the throng at Keleti. Plenty with young children. But if you stand and take a rough count it is hard not to come to the conclusion that young men are in the overwhelming majority. They have been dressed by charity and have cash for tickets. They want to charge their iPhones, eat more pizza and board their trains.
The families sit in tight groups or they sleep underneath the station concourse waiting for their chance to leave. Local Budapest volunteers have delivered food and clothing, showing goodwill which the travellers are only too willing to accept.”
“The Syrian operative claimed more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen had been smuggled into western nations – hidden amongst innocent refugees.
The ISIS smuggler, who is in his thirties and is described as having a trimmed jet-black beard, revealed the ongoing clandestine operation is a complete success.
“Just wait,” he smiled.
The Islamic State operative spoke exclusively to BuzzFeed on the condition of anonymity and is believed to be the first to confirm plans to infiltrate western countries.”
“There are now more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen “ready” across the European Union, he claimed.
The operative said the undercover infiltration was the beginning of a larger plot to carry out revenge attacks in the West in retaliation for the US-led coalition airstrikes.”
“As hundreds of thousands of Syrians make their way across Europe, some by foot, local agencies are preparing for some of those people to land here.
“We are expecting a wave of Syrian refugees in Orange County,” said Nahla Kayali, founder and executive director of Access California Services, an Anaheim nonprofit that provides services largely to Muslim refugees and immigrants.
“We don’t know when they will come. But we are getting ready to receive them.””
Aj, my comments were based on general election polls from sept. 3 not specific polls for iowa/new hampshire. In a general election their importance is less than during the primary season. Outside of the beltway, iowa and new hampshire, i wonder how many americans actually pay attention to the clinton scandal du jour. For the most part i would think people tune ut what they view as the right wing noise machine. Will the noise stick come next fall?
Theres no doubt scores of young men are part of the refugee trail. After all, would you rather be in Germany or drafted into a civil war by one side or other? Howevet this doesnt discount the real need.
Id rather doubt a news source speaking exclusively to buzzfeed. On the other hand, the refugee crisis is the perfect means to ratchet up the fear mongering by numerous political groups including ISIS but also right wing fascist parties in europe.
HRW, I don’t think Hillary’s problems are primarily related to the email “scandals”. I just think most Democrats don’t think she is a very good candidate. She is a poor speaker, comes across as sneaky, and her core values are suspect, if not for sale. On the other hand, your man Sanders may be an old socialist who hands over the microphone to any black protester who asks for it, but Democrats know he is a true liberal who they can count on to fight against the police, oil companies, Wall Street, the Confederate flag, free enterprise, pro-lifers, and “homophobes”.
Donna J quoted Bill Kristol, and I see he predicted a surge for Ben Carson. Carson is an outsider, but he is polite, thoughtful, intelligent and conservative, all of the things Trump is not. Kristol does not think Carson can get the nomination, but I think the Rs could do a lot worse than him.
In case you had to choose, here’s an article that demonstrates why your child would be better off growing up in China or Columbia or Haiti than in San Francisco:
No doubt Clinton has a baggage problem (esp corporate money) and Sanders plays better to the base. The baggage problem is more deterimental than all the “scandals” .In fact right wing attacks probably create a sympathy backlash and an entrenchment of support. Perhaps the right should sit back and let Sanders do the heavy lifting.
Clinton comes across (publicly) as very guarded and wary which doesn’t translate well. I’ve noticed she’s hauled Bill out for a couple campaign appearances recently. He’s the opposite of her when it comes to campaigning.
I was talking with someone at church who is a Dem and he said he definitely would not vote for Hillary following all the email stuff. Along with people’s general skepticism about her, the scandal, I think, will do her in.
And all the liberals I know (and I know and am surrounded by a lot of them) have gone completely mum on Clinton, I suspect they realize there needs to be a Plan B, and fast. Biden or others may find a way in with that kind of environment.
I like and respect Carson (a lot), but am doubtful someone who has never held any kind of public office can or would ultimately get the party’s nomination. But that said, this is an odd year (so far, it’s still early though).
I (and others) have clearly been wrong about Trump’s staying power, at least through the summer months. By the end of this year, the field will dwindle and I think we’ll start to see the 2-3 front-runners on both sides.
” … One can judge Davis mistaken about the dictates of her conscience. Perhaps she is wrong about what Christianity teaches about marriage, as many liberal Christians argue. Perhaps she is mistaken about the implications of signing a marriage license. There might be a clever Jesuit who can convince us that her signature on same-sex marriage licenses should not have troubled her conscience. …
“Whatever we might think of the moral or legal substance of the matter, however, we cannot claim Davis has misunderstood her situation. One of her duties as county clerk now asks Davis to do what her conscience tells her she must not do. The way forward is clear: She must obey her conscience. She must act, as she puts it, ‘under God’s authority.’ That’s exactly right.
“…. She is not issuing counter-opinions to refute Obergefell. Nor is she campaigning to get other county clerks to join her. There have been no press releases, no assertive shrill spirit of protest on her part. That’s the progressive mentality, which tries to upgrade its political ambitions with appeals to conscience. Instead, Davis simply won’t do what her conscience tells her she cannot do. She’s not acting contrary to the law; She’s not acting at all. …”
Summary: Ben Carson is really just like “every run-of-the-mill white right-wing political hack” and as anti-science as they come.
So, combine the two articles and what do we have…
Ben Carson: A Study in the Left’s Treatment of a Black Hero Before and After He Decided to Have the Temerity to Step Off the Plantation and Run for Office as a Republican.
“It does kind of indicate how politics has been turned on its head,” said Vin Weber, a GOP strategist and former congressman who is supporting Bush. “All of us—pundits, journalist, everyone—we may have underestimated the anti-establishment mood dramatically.”
Jonah Goldberg on Trump: “If I sound dismayed, it’s only because I am. Conservatives have spent more than 60 years arguing that ideas and character matter. That is the conservative movement I joined and dedicated my professional life to. And now, in a moment of passion, many of my comrades-in-arms are throwing it all away in a fit of pique. Because ‘Trump fights!’
“… Yes, I know Trump has declared himself pro-life. Good for him — and congratulations to the pro-life movement for making that the price of admission. But I’m at a total loss to understand why serious pro-lifers take him at his word. He’s been all over the place on Planned Parenthood, and when asked who he’d like to put on the Supreme Court, he named his pro-choice-extremist sister.
“Ann Coulter wrote of Newt in 2011: ‘If all you want is to lob rhetorical bombs at Obama and then lose, Newt Gingrich — like recent favorite Donald Trump — is your candidate. But if you want to save the country, Newt’s not your guy.’ Now Ann leads a chorus of people claiming that Trump is our only savior. Has Trump changed, or have Ann and her followers? Is there a serious argument behind the new thinking, or is it ‘because he fights!’?
HRW, I have been saying for a while that Trump is a liberal. When Krugman praises his positions, I think that ends the discussion.
Donna J, We may have “underestimated the anti-establishment mood” or to be brutally honest, we may have underestimated the number of stupid Republicans.
It is sad and ironic that as Organized Perversion has completely taken control of the U.S. government, its popular culture and its “education” system, the one person to put her neck on the line for Biblical values is a Democratic County Clerk from rural Kentucky. May God bless and protect her and turn this miserable nation back toward Him.
I personally would rather take legal refugees from Syria than illegals out here in California. Most of those fleeing Syria now, are me–middle class people with skills and probably language abilities who don’t know what else to do.
I may be wrong, but they look completely different than what floods through our southern borders.
Janice shared this World article over on the daily thread, but I thought it could go along with this thread’s discussion of refugees. (It’s a quick read.) …
Krugman may well be the kiss of death for Trump. But he makes a valid point in that Trumps popularity may indicate that republican economic theory may not resonate with its actual mass basd.
Michelle — for the most part Syrian families that have shown the resourcefulness and initiative to get that far are most likely middle class or could become middle class. As well, they most likely after the initial non violent arab spring degenerated into a civil war with multiple sides none of whom they could identify with.
Those middle class Syrians are largely secular, have strong family values and will do well here.
“A Pakistani identity card in the bushes, a Bangladeshi one in a cornfield. A torn Iraqi driver’s licence bearing the photo of a man with a Saddam-style moustache, another one with a scarfed woman displaying a shy smile.
Documents scattered only metres from Serbia’s border with Hungary provide evidence that many of the migrants flooding Europe to escape war or poverty are scrapping their true nationalities and likely assuming new ones, just as they enter the European Union.
Many of those migrants believe that using a fake document – or having none at all – gives them a better chance of receiving asylum in Germany and other western European states. That’s because the surest route to asylum is to be a refugee from war and not an economic migrant fleeing poverty. That fact has led to a huge influx of people claiming to be Syrian.
Serbian border police say that 90 per cent of those arriving from Macedonia, about 3000 a day, claim they are Syrian, although they have no documents to prove it. The so-called Balkan corridor for the migrant flight starts in Turkey, then goes through Macedonia and Serbia before entering the European Union in Hungary.
“You can see that something is fishy when most of those who cross into Serbia enter January 1 as the date of their birth,” border police officer Miroslav Jovic said. “Guess that’s the first date that comes to their mind.””
I have no doubt some young men will try this ruse. However, once they fail or are found out, they will be shipped back to place of origin, the EU protocol is quite strict and politically there is broad support for this policy across the political spectrum. And its not too difficult for EU officials to differentiate between Middle Eastern Arabs and Pakistanis, North and West Africans etc.
Wandering Views 
http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/michael-brown/2015/09/04/what-we-learned-from-the-arrest-of-kim-davis
“…what cannot be debated is that the national outrage against Kim Davis has nothing to do with her refusing to obey the law and everything to do with her Christian beliefs.
Had she found herself on the opposite end of the conflict and had she stood for “gay rights,” refusing to obey a law that she felt discriminated against them, she would be praised from coast to coast.
Instead, she is being vilified in the ugliest terms and has quickly become the target of death threats simply because, in conscience before God, she cannot comply with the judge’s order.”
“What, then, is the difference between Newsom, who did not lose his job and who spent no time in jail, and Davis, who was told by the judge that she would be jailed until she complied?
Newsom stood for redefining marriage, Davis is standing for marriage as God intended it and, more fundamentally, is refusing to violate her conscience as a Christian – and that, not the breaking the law, is the issue at hand.
Make no mistake about it. Following Jesus in America today will be increasing costly until God’s people awaken and stand.
The arrest of Kim Davis has made that clear.”
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In the twelve years since US foreign policy became insane and dangerous, Russia and Germany have emerged as voices of reason and advocates of stability. As Putin moves to stabilize Syria and weaken ISIS, we should all hope the U.S. stays out of the way.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-05/putin-confirms-scope-russian-military-role-syria
Ultimately, China and India will be the great powers of this century. Until that happens, Russia and Germany must provide leadership.
The U.S. did a good job of world leadership in the 20th century under wise leaders such as Eiisenhower, Reagan and even Big Bush. That time is over.
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Welcome to Babylon
Olasky on the Kim Davis story
http://www.worldmag.com/2015/09/kim_davis_welcome_to_babylon
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A friend on Facebook shared this, from a conservative Republican lawyer in Kentucky. (Again, as I said on the main thread the other day, I’m not arguing for or against her actions, but am considering the varying arguments.)
The same friend who shared this said that the argument that she took an oath under one law & shouldn’t have to recognize this new law is specious, as laws change or are amended all the time. (Again, just sharing for your consideration. Don’t shoot the messenger. 🙂 )
From J. Russell Lloyd:
“So the saga continues. For those of you who are not very political or are not from our fair (usually) Commonwealth, Judge David Bunning imposed a sentence of incarceration for civil contempt on Kim Davis, the County Clerk of Rowan County for her failure to comply with an Order from his Court, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky. The sentence is for a violation of an Order of the Court; not because Ms. Davis is Christian and not because Ms. Davis believes that same sex marriage is a sin. …
“First, Judge Bunning was appointed by President Bush (43) and is the son of retired Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning. He is a conservative through and through. The Bunnings do not take their political beliefs lightly.
“Second, this is the only time that I can remember seeing a contemnor get through an entire appellate process before being required to comply with a Court Order. Usually, one is required to comply with an Order of the Court regardless of the appeal. If compliance is refused, then a contempt sentence is enforced, regardless of whether or not you are appealing the Order. Kim Davis got special treatment on this issue.
“Kim Davis is in jail because she willfully and intentionally violated an Order of the Court. She received all the due process allowed her (all the way to the US Supreme Court). She no longer has any cause (good or otherwise) to refuse compliance with a Court Order in a Nation of Laws.
“Third, Judge Bunning threw Ms. Davis a life preserver. After imposing a sentence for contempt, Judge Bunning took a break. When Court resumed, he interviewed the Deputy Clerks for Rowan County as to whether they would comply with his Order. Five (5) of the six (6) deputies affirmed that they would comply with his Order. He then recalled Ms. Davis and asked whether she could refrain from interfering with the deputies while they issued marriage licenses. If she would do that, then he was satisfied that she was not in contempt and could go home. Ms. Davis refused even that much. Ms. Davis’ guarantee of personal religious freedom does not extend her the right to impose those beliefs on others, particularly when she is acting as the government.
“Predictably, an outcry of judicial tyranny and religious persecution has arisen. This is not religious persecution. In the United States, we do not examine the sincerity or reasonableness of your religious beliefs in the public arena. You can believe any and everything in the name of your faith. However, the government may not deny you services based upon the religious belief of the government, its agents or employees. When that happens, then a clear violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment occurs, which is precisely what happened when Ms. Davis refused to issue marriage licenses under “God’s Authority”.
“As far as judicial tyranny goes, the outcry is completely unwarranted. Ms. Davis is subject to the jurisdiction (read authority) of the Court. She got access to justice in a way that few will ever experience. She was given special consideration at every step. This is not tyranny by any conceivable definition of the word, and to call it tyranny diminishes the claimant.
“For those who may be tempted to take the outcry seriously, let me ask you to consider whether you would tolerate a government that denied you access to services and status available to everyone else because of religious beliefs that you did not share. If we are to continue to be a nation of laws, then we must do so much better. We must stop giving attention and authority to those who seek to take us back to a time when the government cried “God Wills It” and the cry became law.”
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Well regardless of how the Davis case plays out, there are many more to come.
First up, a judge refusing to perform them.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SAME_SEX_MARRIAGE_JUDGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-05-03-09-33
“Marion County Judge Vance Day is being investigated by a judicial fitness commission in part over his refusal to perform same-sex marriages on religious grounds, a spokesman for the judge said.
When a federal court ruling in May 2014 made same-sex marriage legal in Oregon, Day instructed his staff to refer same-sex couples looking to marry to other judges, spokesman Patrick Korten said Friday.
Last fall, he decided to stop performing weddings altogether, aside from one in March that had long been scheduled, Korten said.
“He made a decision nearly a year ago to stop doing weddings altogether, and the principal factor that he weighed was the pressure that one would face to perform a same-sex wedding, which he had a conflict with his religious beliefs,” Korten said.”
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And then there’s this one. A judge refusing to grant a heterosexual divorce because…. gay marriage.
You’ll have to excuse the liberal WaPo, they can’t help but let their disdain for the judge show thru in their biased reporting. But the judges words are what are really of interest anyway, not their sniping, so I’ve selected the part with quotes from him.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tenn-judge-refuses-to-grant-straight-couple-a-divorce-because-%E2%80%A6-gay-marriage/ar-AAdXgz7?ocid=U142DHP
“But it was his argument against the divorce that has made waves around the world.
After quickly running through court testimony about money trouble, a temporary restraining order and claims of infidelity, Atherton jumped into a bold legal analysis that drips with sarcasm.
“The Tennessee Court of Appeals has noted that Obergefell v. Hodges … affected what is, and must be recognized as, a lawful marriage in the State of Tennessee,” Atherton began. “This leaves a mere trial level Tennessee state court judge in a bit of a quandary. With the U.S. Supreme Court having defined what must be recognized as a marriage, it would appear that Tennessee’ s judiciary must now await the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court as to what is not a marriage, or better stated, when a marriage is no longer a marriage.”
“The majority’ s opinion in Obergefell, regardless of its patronizing and condescending verbiage, is now the law of the land, accurately described by Justice Scalia as ‘a naked judicial claim to legislative— indeed, super-legislative— power,’” Atherton continued.
The Supreme Court’s decision was “troubling” because it amounted to a “judicial fiat,” Atherton argued. “… What actually appears to be the intent and (more importantly) the effect of the Supreme Court ruling is to preempt state courts from addressing marriage/divorce litigation altogether.”
“Perhaps Tennessee’s perspective concerning keystones and central institutions must submit to the perspective of those so much higher and wiser than ourselves,” he wrote sarcastically before essentially accusing the Supreme Court of trashing Tennessee’s constitution, if not democracy itself, by legalizing gay marriage.”
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If that’s what passes for a “conservative lawyer” in Kentucky, this is a black day.
Here is the oath that Kim Davis took:
http://abc7chicago.com/news/heres-the-oath-taken-by-clerk-jailed-over-gay-marriage/969180/
I’ve read the U.S. Constitution (including the improperly adopted 14th Amendment), and I am confident there is nothing in there requiring a clerk to issue a marriage license to two perverts of the same gender.
I know the Kentucky Constitution doesn’t require it, so Mrs. Davis is being jailed for following God’s law and the law of her state.
The poor judge in Oregon tried to avoid controversy, but that is impossible in the Perverted States of America. Christians in the US need to understand several things:
1. The strongest commitment of the U.S. government is to perversion. If you doubt that, consider what was the one value Obama promoted while in Africa.
2. If you are an elected official or employee of the U.S, or any of its states, counties or cities, you will be required to promote perversion, even as German officials and employees were required to support Hitler from 1933-1945.
3. If you are an officer of a major US corporation, you will be required to support perversion or you will lose your job.
4. If you teach at a public school or college in any of the fifty states now under the control of the U.S. government and you oppose perversion, your job is in danger.
5. If you work for a major US bank or other corporation, you will be required to support perversion. If you object you will be fired or receive no other promotions.
6. If your church or Christian school teaches Biblical truth on sex and marriage, it will come under increasing attack by the government of the Perverted States of America.
Citizens of the U.S. have four choices: Conform, emigrate, hide or rebel. Mrs. Davis chose to rebel. As a fellow Southerner, I respect that choice.
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I guess now the question is: Should Kim Davis resign, since she does not want to fulfill this part of her job? Many Christians have resigned jobs or not taken them in the first place because of requirements they felt violated their faith.
One of the questions I’ve seen a few times is if Christians would also support a Quaker or Mennonite county clerk who refuses to issue gun permits.
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Karen, yes I would.
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Personally, I would resign. In fact, I would not run for any office in the US as it currently exists for all the reasons stated above. Going back to the Nazi Germany analogy, the wisest move is probably to lay low until you can emigrate to a nation not under the control of Organized Perversion. However, I have a lot of respect for someone who will fight and even go to jail for her beliefs. It is the action of someone who has not given up on her country.
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I would not agree that Kim Davis is unwilling “to fulfill part of her job”. Nothing in Kentucky law requires a clerk to grant a marriage license to two perverts. If the people of her County support perverted marriage let them vote her out.
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The Mohler column I shared earlier in the week asks whether Christians of conscience on these matters will, in fact, simply have to remove themselves from government service (and many privatee sector posts as well) if no accommodation provisions are allowed. So, yeah, resigning and not running for these offices is a very real option
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Sad but there we may be
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DonnaJ, The Mohler article was good. I really think it is important that we tell our children what they will face in the future. Most will probably choose to lay low (Dreher’s Benedictine Option). A few will emigrate. Sadly, many may compromise or join the enemy in the face of relentless pressure. However, if there is anything left of our national character, there will be some who will rebel.
I have made clear how little I think of Trump. Most people I know who support him are not very bright or well-educated. The only positive aspect I see in the Trump Movement is that it is a form of rebellion.
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Nothing new for Christians, though — we’ve maybe been living in a historical and cultural bubble that was more abnormal than we realized
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Party’s over?
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Like I said, lot’s more to come….
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kim-davis-isnt-the-only-official-refusing-to-issue-same-sex-marriage-licenses/ar-AAdZa33?ocid=U142DHP
“In Alabama, the law states that probate judges “may” issue the licenses rather than “shall.” At least 10 counties and potentially as many as 15 had shuttered their marriage license operations as of Wednesday with no date for relaunching them, according to Ianthe Metzger of the Human Rights Campaign.
In North Carolina, a law allowing officials to refrain from conducting marriage-related duties has led to more than 30 magistrates refusing to perform same-sex unions, AP reported.
Since the law went into effect in June, officials with a “sincerely held religious objection” can forgo performing marriages. Only Utah has a similar law, AP reported.
Sen. Phil Berger, R-N.C., said the law is most likely preventing a situation similar to the case involving Davis in the county.
“It’s keeping folks from having to choose between their jobs and their religious beliefs,” Berger, told AP. “I think that’s important.””
—————————–
Gay activists aren’t interested in a workable truce on the matter. They’re demanding submission, and won’t permit folks to publicly oppose them. They won’t tolerate an opposing view.
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I was surprised at the venom that was so obviously dripping throughout the conversation I walked in on about Davis the other day in the newsroom (mainly because these weren’t the liberal reporters, but more of the newsroom clerks).
Punish her. Keep punishing her. Punish her good.
Wow.
Then they aired all her dirty laundry.
Liberals really are now calling for a government that puts its boot on your neck.
Scary.
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As long as it’s not on their necks.
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Yep.
In my Quaker days, I dated a guy (also Quaker) who had participated in some sort of civil disobedience and managed to get arrested. He kept his plastic handcuffs hanging from something in his car (rear view mirror? Can’t remember). But they were truly considered a badge of honor. 🙂
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I’m sure I told the story of our friend who was arrested during Operation Rescue in the early 80s. (Shocking to think I’m now the age she was then).
She went to trial, was convicted to a week in the Sybil Brand Institute for Women. Her sentence was delayed so she could finish serving jury duty. (You can’t make this stuff up).
She and several other women went to serve their time. She later said it was the most rewarding spiritual experience she’s ever had. She woke up every morning to minister and pray with the “real” inmates until late at night. She came home thrilled to have been arrested and sent to jail.
My husband likes to say if Christians won’t go into the prisons on their own volition to minister, God will send them. Perhaps this is?
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Russell D. Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission: The government “ought to provide its employees with all protections possible to the furtherance of maintaining public order. There are better solutions available than the one in Kentucky that needlessly pits the rule of law against freedom of conscience. The governor and legislature of Kentucky could act to accommodate county clerks whose consciences object to issuing same-sex marriage licenses while still maintaining the rule of law.”
Terry Mattingly at the Get Religion journalism blog: “… there are old-school liberals who want to defend same-sex marriage AND religious liberty. …”
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The problem is that we have no “rule of law”. When liberal judges can invent a “right” to kill your baby or a “right” to “marry” someone of the same gender, the law means nothing. We are simply living under the tyranny of liberal judges and Obama.
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Interesting, too, to revisit MLK’s letter from jail:
““One may well ask, ‘How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?’” King continued. “The answer is found in the fact that there are two types of laws: There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that ‘an unjust law is no law at all.’
“Now, what is the difference between the two?” wrote King. “How does one determine when a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas, an unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law.”
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But back to the 2016 campaign …
Kristol: “Republicans have a problem, while Democrats have a crisis. … Republicans face a few months of turmoil and recriminations. The Democrats have a much more unpleasant prospect. They long ago settled on their inevitable bride, the nuptials have been scheduled seemingly forever … and now they realize they’ve made a terrible mistake. …”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/democratic-party-and-hillary-clinton-cancel-wedding_1026071.html
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From the same link:
“What to do? Go ahead with an ill-advised marriage, with no prospect of no-fault divorce until it’s too late? Or call off the wedding when the invitations have already gone out? And then find someone else? They’d almost surely be better off admitting the mistake and spending some time playing the field—but that’s easier for me to say than for them to do. And who tells the bride the wedding’s off?”
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and the polls are beginning to shift some more:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/09/bernie-sanders-opens-big-lead-in-new-hampshire.php
“… Sanders’ rise reflects Hillary’s email server troubles, to be sure, but more fundamentally–I am repeating myself here–the fact that she is an awful candidate. ..”
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Which song is better (or worse!) – the one worshipping Hillary, or the one when the kids sang to Obama?
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/divine-hillary-replaces-jesus-in-campaign-rally-song/
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In my newly adopted country, the children sing a prettier song:
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Karen’s quoted commentary at 2:53 mirrors my opinion. Since the law changed after she took the job I can grant her a bit of a break but when she refused to let her deputies grant the license she crossed the line to using a state office to push her beliefs on others.
I’ve seen the Quaker analogy but also a Muslim analogy on inspecting places that served pork products. A Muslim woman serves as chief inspector of food processing (or whatever the title is). After assuming the job, a pork processing plant is established in her district. Can she refuse to inspect the plant thereby preventing normal operations? Or should she be forced to resign as she won’t perform her job? Or given that she has subordinates under her, should she allow a subordinate to inspect and license the plant? The latter is appropriate and is exactly what happened in Kentucky once Davis was removed/jailed.
Ricky — Assad controlled Syria is the home of Russia’s only overseas naval base. Putin has no interest in the success or failure of ISIS operations in eastern Syria/western Iraq as long as his Mediterranean port is safe.
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Clinton still leads the Republican field but barely. Biden is actually polling better against Republicans — maybe acting like you don’t want it may work for him. Sanders still polls behind a Republican competitor but he’s only a percent or two behind — margin of error territory. Sanders polling that well is impressive in that he still hasn’t got the name recognition of the other candidates.
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Aaaaaaahhhhhhh — The Obama song! Sheesh, and I’d mercifully forgotten that. 🙄 🙄
Creepy, very.
That whole ’08 “worshipful” vibe absolutely made me shudder.
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HRW, It is true that unlike Little Bush and Obama, Putin acts in his own nation’s interest. However, he has also consistently promoted stability. Since 2003, the actions and policies of the U.S. in the Middle East have caused death, war, refugees, revolutions, massacres, anarchy, turmoil and instability. During this period, Putin and Merkel have acted to check US stupidity and to clean up the mess.
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On the songs putting politicians in the place of God: Just goes to show, we really ALL do worship “something” or someone. …
Those who don’t acknowledge God will fill the gap, sadly, with golden calves or self or poor human authority figures as substitutes.
It kind of takes your breath away (in a bad way), though, when it’s so openly done. I mean, wow.
He who has ears to hear …
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ricky — I’ll give you the instability piece. However, I don’t think Putin has been promoting stability — his actions in Ukraine alone are bad enough, but the Syrian civil war would’ve never dragged on if he hadn’t given Assad support. Merkel — on the other hand is promoting stability but stability is in the interests of the EU which has a self interest in maintaining the status quo in international economics and diplomacy.
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If Assad had fallen, do you think Syria would have been peaceful and stable? Like Libya and Iraq? Putin is now gaining confidence as it becomes more clear that the U.S. has morphed from a bull in a china shop to a paper tiger. He will establish peace in Syria.
Those (like Merkel and Putin) who promote stability always do so in the interest of their own nations. The foolish idealists like Woodrow Wilson, Carter, Little Bush and Obama hurt the interests of their own nation and cause horrible suffering in other places.
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Putin explained his view of the new East/West Cold War to Merkel. Just as Reagan understood that it was his duty (along with Thatcher and John Paul II) to prevent the spread of Soviet communism, Putin understands that it is his duty (along with the Orthodox Church, India, and various Muslim, African and Asian nations) to prevent the spread of Western perversion. Merkel now works with Putin on a variety of security issues, but she understands (from conversations with Putin) that he will not compromise on the issue of perversion which Putin sees as a grave threat to Western Civilization.
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American conservative Christians need to read this article before they accept the “Fox News” version of Putin and Russia:
http://www.unz.com/article/examining-the-hatred-of-vladimir-putin-and-russia/
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Why aren’t the 57 predominantly Muslim countries accepting more Syrian refugees?
Also, if they are truly refugees, and not economic migrants, then why aren’t they stopping in Greece, Bulgaria, and Hungary, instead of heading further north to Germany and Sweden which have farther-reaching, more “advanced” welfare states?
And why now, when the Syrian Civil War began in earnest in 2011?
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Tychicus, You make a good point. The refugees are fleeing to Europe for economic reasons as well as because of political turmoil. The situation is like Mexico 100 years ago during the Revolution. Around a million people were killed during the Mexican Revolution. My wife’s family fled to Texas at that time. They could have gone to other Latin American countries, but Texas offered more safety and economic opportunity, though it wasn’t a Nordic welfare state.
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Push and pull factors — the obvious push is the civil war, the pull to certain countries is the ability to offer a better opportunity to one’s family. The pull doesn’t dismiss the initial push. Sure the refugees could go elsewhere but once you are forced to move, you would be stupid not to move to the best location.
Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have take millions of refugees since the Iraqi conflict and then the Syrian civil war. Both Lebanon and Jordan can’t absorb the refugees — the former can barely run a proper garbage service in its own country let alone absorb a million refugees to a very delicately balanced state, the latter has absorbed Palestinian and Iraqi refugees and now has an additional million Syrian. The Gulf Emirates and the Saudis are the problem — and the rest of the middle east knows it, the emirs funded Sunni insurgency and then ISIS but won’t take any responsibility for the blowback.
When the Christian and humanist/atheist west take the refugees rich Muslims won’t take, it does get noticed. Many refugees openly admit they’d rather go to the west then live in a Muslim country and they are embarrassed by their fellow Muslim’s inaction. Perhaps Christians could look at this as an opportunity to demonstrate the emptiness of Islamic rhetoric. Or perhaps we can all act like human beings and just help each other out without reference to political and religious rivalries.
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All excellent points, HRW!
It should also be noted that the birthrate in Europe is nowhere near replacement levels. Just as continued U.S. population growth (and economic growth) is dependent on immigration, Europe may see its predicted population drop reversed by immigration.
I understand the argument made by Trump and others that the U.S. and Europe are committing cultural suicide by allowing large scale immigration. Unfortunately, the culture of native-born Americans and Europeans in 2015 isn’t all that great. Any American Christian who has visited churches in developing countries returns home with a new appreciation of our economic wealth and the character of the foreign Christians. A little injection of immigrants may do us and the Europeans some good.
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My Austrian friend is somewhat outraged by the refugee crisis (he’s well educated so he masks his outrage). He’s lived in Canada for over 20 years and is still puzzled by the fairly open and popular acceptance of immigration/refugees. However, Canadians instinctively know precisely what you state — demographics, infusion of new energy, etc., — and thus usually approve of immigration. Thus, the current Syrian crisis (and the picture of the drowned child who has Canadian relatives) has made our Conservative gov’t reelection chances even more negligible.
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This Danish visitor to Moscow gets it.
http://timberexec.co.uk/russia-and-the-west-have-swapped-spiritual-and-cultural-roles-iben-thranholm/
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HRW,
AJ here.
You need to look at those poll numbers again. The only matchup Clinton leads in, is against other Democrats, and one in NH where she’s ahead of Trump by one point..
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
“Sunday, September 6
Race/Topic (Click to Sort) Poll Results Spread
Iowa: Trump vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Trump 48, Clinton 43 Trump +5
Iowa: Bush vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Bush 50, Clinton 39 Bush +11
New Hampshire: Trump vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Clinton 46, Trump 45 Clinton +1
New Hampshire: Bush vs. Clinton NBC/Marist Clinton 43, Bush 48 Bush +5
Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus NBC/Marist Trump 29, Carson 22, Cruz 4, Walker 5, Bush 6, Fiorina 5, Rubio 4, Huckabee 3, Paul 5, Jindal 4, Kasich 2, Christie 2, Santorum 1, Perry 0, Graham 0 Trump +7
Iowa Democratic Presidential Caucus NBC/Marist Clinton 38, Sanders 27, Biden 20, O’Malley 4, Webb 2, Chafee 1 Clinton +11
New Hampshire Republican Presidential Primary NBC/Marist Trump 28, Kasich 12, Bush 8, Fiorina 6, Carson 11, Cruz 5, Walker 4, Paul 5, Christie 5, Rubio 3, Huckabee 2, Graham 1, Jindal 1, Perry 0, Santorum 0 Trump +16
New Hampshire 2016 Democratic Primary NBC/Marist Sanders 41, Clinton 32, Biden 16, Webb 1, O’Malley 1, Chafee 0 Sanders +9”
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See also…
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/250836-poll-finds-clinton-losing-to-four-republicans-in-iowa
“Hillary Clinton would lose the swing state of Iowa to several potential Republican opponents, according to a new poll from a Democratic-leaning company.
The Public Policy Polling (PPP) survey released Tuesday showed Clinton getting the worse of match-ups against GOP candidates Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.), Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and retired surgeon Dr. Ben Carson.”
“Other polls show Clinton well ahead in Iowa of her rivals for the Democratic nomination, but the new survey is likely to add to the sense that Clinton could be vulnerable in a general election battle.
A recent survey by Quinnipiac showed Clinton trailing GOP candidates in the swing states of Iowa, Colorado and Virginia. Other polls have suggested voters don’t trust Clinton.”
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Here’s a link to the story on muslim countroes not taking refugees that Tycichus mentioned.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/05/gulf-states-refuse-to-take-a-single-syrian-refugee-say-doing-so-exposes-them-to-risk-of-terrorism/
“Five of the wealthiest Muslim countries have taken no Syrian refugees in at all, arguing that doing so would open them up to the risk of terrorism. Although the oil rich countries have handed over aid money, Britain has donated more than Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar combined.
Between 10 and 12 million Syrians have been displaced by the bloody civil war raging in their country. Most still remain within Syria’s borders, but around four million have fled over the borders into neighbouring countries, mostly Turkey Jordan and Lebanon, and beyond.
Lebanon, which has 1.1 million Syrian refugees, shut her borders to the Syrians in June of last year. Jordan, host to another 630,000, followed suit in August last year, preventing more Syrians from abandoning their country.”
“Yet amidst cries for Europe to do more, it has transpired that of the five wealthiest countries on the Arabian Peninsula, that is, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain, not one has taken in a single refugee from Syria. Instead, they have argued that accepting large numbers of Syrians is a threat to their safety, as terrorists could be hiding within an influx of people. Sherif Elsayid-Ali, Amnesty International’s Head of Refugee and Migrants’ Rights, has slammed their inaction as “shameful”.”
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Hmmmmm……
Young,healthy, and overwhelmingly male. Not to mention most are carrying their expensive IPhones. Are they really fleeing war, or just taking advantage of the situation?
“They are young. They are fit. They clearly know what they want. They have no intention of staying and fighting in Syria. Instead they have travelled overland through Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, Serbia and into Hungary. They say their last stop is Germany.
None of them wants to stay in Hungary or any of they countries they have transited. As one they see Germany as a future because Chancellor Angela Merkel told them so. Besides, Hungary police want to fingerprint them, check any travel documents and stop their progress as specified by EU regulations.
The Aleppo Boys want none of it. They understand why some of their compatriots broke out of a refugee camp on Friday night and decided to try and walk to Germany.
“No good here in Hungary. No good,” said their leader Muhammad. “They try and lock us up. But we want Germany, there it is good. We have to worry about nothing there. They give us food and house and job.”
“Yes, there are families in the throng at Keleti. Plenty with young children. But if you stand and take a rough count it is hard not to come to the conclusion that young men are in the overwhelming majority. They have been dressed by charity and have cash for tickets. They want to charge their iPhones, eat more pizza and board their trains.
The families sit in tight groups or they sleep underneath the station concourse waiting for their chance to leave. Local Budapest volunteers have delivered food and clothing, showing goodwill which the travellers are only too willing to accept.”
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I’m sure there’s nothing to worry about…
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees
“The Syrian operative claimed more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen had been smuggled into western nations – hidden amongst innocent refugees.
The ISIS smuggler, who is in his thirties and is described as having a trimmed jet-black beard, revealed the ongoing clandestine operation is a complete success.
“Just wait,” he smiled.
The Islamic State operative spoke exclusively to BuzzFeed on the condition of anonymity and is believed to be the first to confirm plans to infiltrate western countries.”
“There are now more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen “ready” across the European Union, he claimed.
The operative said the undercover infiltration was the beginning of a larger plot to carry out revenge attacks in the West in retaliation for the US-led coalition airstrikes.”
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Oh, and they’re coming here too.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/refugees-681177-syrian-syria.html
“As hundreds of thousands of Syrians make their way across Europe, some by foot, local agencies are preparing for some of those people to land here.
“We are expecting a wave of Syrian refugees in Orange County,” said Nahla Kayali, founder and executive director of Access California Services, an Anaheim nonprofit that provides services largely to Muslim refugees and immigrants.
“We don’t know when they will come. But we are getting ready to receive them.””
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Aj, my comments were based on general election polls from sept. 3 not specific polls for iowa/new hampshire. In a general election their importance is less than during the primary season. Outside of the beltway, iowa and new hampshire, i wonder how many americans actually pay attention to the clinton scandal du jour. For the most part i would think people tune ut what they view as the right wing noise machine. Will the noise stick come next fall?
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Theres no doubt scores of young men are part of the refugee trail. After all, would you rather be in Germany or drafted into a civil war by one side or other? Howevet this doesnt discount the real need.
Id rather doubt a news source speaking exclusively to buzzfeed. On the other hand, the refugee crisis is the perfect means to ratchet up the fear mongering by numerous political groups including ISIS but also right wing fascist parties in europe.
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HRW, I don’t think Hillary’s problems are primarily related to the email “scandals”. I just think most Democrats don’t think she is a very good candidate. She is a poor speaker, comes across as sneaky, and her core values are suspect, if not for sale. On the other hand, your man Sanders may be an old socialist who hands over the microphone to any black protester who asks for it, but Democrats know he is a true liberal who they can count on to fight against the police, oil companies, Wall Street, the Confederate flag, free enterprise, pro-lifers, and “homophobes”.
Donna J quoted Bill Kristol, and I see he predicted a surge for Ben Carson. Carson is an outsider, but he is polite, thoughtful, intelligent and conservative, all of the things Trump is not. Kristol does not think Carson can get the nomination, but I think the Rs could do a lot worse than him.
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In case you had to choose, here’s an article that demonstrates why your child would be better off growing up in China or Columbia or Haiti than in San Francisco:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/09/of_genderneutral_bathrooms_and_homosexual_dads.html
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Interesting take on the Bush-Trump rivalry by Krugman. The last few paragraphs are key. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opinion/paul-krugman-trump-is-right-on-economics.html?referrer=
No doubt Clinton has a baggage problem (esp corporate money) and Sanders plays better to the base. The baggage problem is more deterimental than all the “scandals” .In fact right wing attacks probably create a sympathy backlash and an entrenchment of support. Perhaps the right should sit back and let Sanders do the heavy lifting.
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Clinton comes across (publicly) as very guarded and wary which doesn’t translate well. I’ve noticed she’s hauled Bill out for a couple campaign appearances recently. He’s the opposite of her when it comes to campaigning.
I was talking with someone at church who is a Dem and he said he definitely would not vote for Hillary following all the email stuff. Along with people’s general skepticism about her, the scandal, I think, will do her in.
And all the liberals I know (and I know and am surrounded by a lot of them) have gone completely mum on Clinton, I suspect they realize there needs to be a Plan B, and fast. Biden or others may find a way in with that kind of environment.
I like and respect Carson (a lot), but am doubtful someone who has never held any kind of public office can or would ultimately get the party’s nomination. But that said, this is an odd year (so far, it’s still early though).
I (and others) have clearly been wrong about Trump’s staying power, at least through the summer months. By the end of this year, the field will dwindle and I think we’ll start to see the 2-3 front-runners on both sides.
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From the Catholic journal First Things on the Kim Davis story:
http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2015/09/kim-daviss-conscientious-decision
” … One can judge Davis mistaken about the dictates of her conscience. Perhaps she is wrong about what Christianity teaches about marriage, as many liberal Christians argue. Perhaps she is mistaken about the implications of signing a marriage license. There might be a clever Jesuit who can convince us that her signature on same-sex marriage licenses should not have troubled her conscience. …
“Whatever we might think of the moral or legal substance of the matter, however, we cannot claim Davis has misunderstood her situation. One of her duties as county clerk now asks Davis to do what her conscience tells her she must not do. The way forward is clear: She must obey her conscience. She must act, as she puts it, ‘under God’s authority.’ That’s exactly right.
“…. She is not issuing counter-opinions to refute Obergefell. Nor is she campaigning to get other county clerks to join her. There have been no press releases, no assertive shrill spirit of protest on her part. That’s the progressive mentality, which tries to upgrade its political ambitions with appeals to conscience. Instead, Davis simply won’t do what her conscience tells her she cannot do. She’s not acting contrary to the law; She’s not acting at all. …”
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Compare and contrast these two New York Times articles about Ben Carson:
June 8, 1993
Summary: Ben Carson is a courageous, big-hearted, rockstar man of science.
9/2/2015 http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/takingnote/2015/09/02/is-ben-carson-really-the-anti-trump/?referrer=
Summary: Ben Carson is really just like “every run-of-the-mill white right-wing political hack” and as anti-science as they come.
So, combine the two articles and what do we have…
Ben Carson: A Study in the Left’s Treatment of a Black Hero Before and After He Decided to Have the Temerity to Step Off the Plantation and Run for Office as a Republican.
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2016 and the summer of “trump”
“It does kind of indicate how politics has been turned on its head,” said Vin Weber, a GOP strategist and former congressman who is supporting Bush. “All of us—pundits, journalist, everyone—we may have underestimated the anti-establishment mood dramatically.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-07/the-summer-of-trump-has-these-republicans-seeking-a-september-reset
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Jonah Goldberg on Trump: “If I sound dismayed, it’s only because I am. Conservatives have spent more than 60 years arguing that ideas and character matter. That is the conservative movement I joined and dedicated my professional life to. And now, in a moment of passion, many of my comrades-in-arms are throwing it all away in a fit of pique. Because ‘Trump fights!’
“… Yes, I know Trump has declared himself pro-life. Good for him — and congratulations to the pro-life movement for making that the price of admission. But I’m at a total loss to understand why serious pro-lifers take him at his word. He’s been all over the place on Planned Parenthood, and when asked who he’d like to put on the Supreme Court, he named his pro-choice-extremist sister.
“Ann Coulter wrote of Newt in 2011: ‘If all you want is to lob rhetorical bombs at Obama and then lose, Newt Gingrich — like recent favorite Donald Trump — is your candidate. But if you want to save the country, Newt’s not your guy.’ Now Ann leads a chorus of people claiming that Trump is our only savior. Has Trump changed, or have Ann and her followers? Is there a serious argument behind the new thinking, or is it ‘because he fights!’?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423607/donald-trump-conservative-movement-jonah-goldberg
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HRW, I have been saying for a while that Trump is a liberal. When Krugman praises his positions, I think that ends the discussion.
Donna J, We may have “underestimated the anti-establishment mood” or to be brutally honest, we may have underestimated the number of stupid Republicans.
I like Jonah Goldberg and I like his colleague, Kevin Williamson who wrote this article:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2015/09/07/kim_davis_rightful_prisoner_of_conscience_364970.html
It is sad and ironic that as Organized Perversion has completely taken control of the U.S. government, its popular culture and its “education” system, the one person to put her neck on the line for Biblical values is a Democratic County Clerk from rural Kentucky. May God bless and protect her and turn this miserable nation back toward Him.
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I personally would rather take legal refugees from Syria than illegals out here in California. Most of those fleeing Syria now, are me–middle class people with skills and probably language abilities who don’t know what else to do.
I may be wrong, but they look completely different than what floods through our southern borders.
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Lincoln Chafee, Let’s Get Him to One Percent!
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I don’t think it’s just Republicans who are liking Trump, though. But it will be up to the Republicans to do something about it.
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Janice shared this World article over on the daily thread, but I thought it could go along with this thread’s discussion of refugees. (It’s a quick read.) …
http://www.worldmag.com/2015/09/the_refugee_crisis_of_faith
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Krugman may well be the kiss of death for Trump. But he makes a valid point in that Trumps popularity may indicate that republican economic theory may not resonate with its actual mass basd.
Michelle — for the most part Syrian families that have shown the resourcefulness and initiative to get that far are most likely middle class or could become middle class. As well, they most likely after the initial non violent arab spring degenerated into a civil war with multiple sides none of whom they could identify with.
Those middle class Syrians are largely secular, have strong family values and will do well here.
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HRW,
“After all, would you rather be in Germany or drafted into a civil war by one side or other? Howevet this doesnt discount the real need.”
True, for some the need is real. But for others…..
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis-pakistanis-others-dumping-ids-to-become-syrian-20150906-gjggcn.html
“A Pakistani identity card in the bushes, a Bangladeshi one in a cornfield. A torn Iraqi driver’s licence bearing the photo of a man with a Saddam-style moustache, another one with a scarfed woman displaying a shy smile.
Documents scattered only metres from Serbia’s border with Hungary provide evidence that many of the migrants flooding Europe to escape war or poverty are scrapping their true nationalities and likely assuming new ones, just as they enter the European Union.
Many of those migrants believe that using a fake document – or having none at all – gives them a better chance of receiving asylum in Germany and other western European states. That’s because the surest route to asylum is to be a refugee from war and not an economic migrant fleeing poverty. That fact has led to a huge influx of people claiming to be Syrian.
Serbian border police say that 90 per cent of those arriving from Macedonia, about 3000 a day, claim they are Syrian, although they have no documents to prove it. The so-called Balkan corridor for the migrant flight starts in Turkey, then goes through Macedonia and Serbia before entering the European Union in Hungary.
“You can see that something is fishy when most of those who cross into Serbia enter January 1 as the date of their birth,” border police officer Miroslav Jovic said. “Guess that’s the first date that comes to their mind.””
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I have no doubt some young men will try this ruse. However, once they fail or are found out, they will be shipped back to place of origin, the EU protocol is quite strict and politically there is broad support for this policy across the political spectrum. And its not too difficult for EU officials to differentiate between Middle Eastern Arabs and Pakistanis, North and West Africans etc.
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