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Our Daily Thread 6-15-15

Good Morning!

Today’s header photo is from Elizabeth. 

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On this day in 1215 King John of England put his seal on the Magna Carta.

In 1607 colonists in North America completed James Fort in Jamestown, VA.

In 1775 George Washington was appointed head of the Continental Army by the Second Continental Congress.

In 1877 Henry O. Flipper became the first African American to graduate from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

And in 1982 in the capital city of Stanley, the Falklands war ended as Argentine troops surrendered to the British.

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Quote of the Day

“I believe that government is the servant of the people and not their master.”

David Rockefeller

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Today is Franz Danzi’s birthday. 

And it’s Waylon’s too.  

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Anyone have a QoD?

57 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 6-15-15”

  2. Cheryl barely beat me to it.
    Seems like every week has to start with a Monday. Maybe everyone else his suffering from it.
    Danna, I hope you’re better. Seems strange. I have had your problem before, but every time it seems my body empties itself of the bad stuff, I’m ok again. Weak for a while, but OK.
    I don’t understanding it lingering on. If it isn’t fixed by now, you need to see about it.

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  4. Good morning, blog family!

    Hopeful that Donna got better by this morning. Some of the stomach things are 24 hr. and others are 48 hr.A few can last longer. They usually have the one benefit of weight loss.

    Our worship time was good yesterday despite that our worship leader is gone. It did seem to be a bit longer than sometimes so I got tired from all the standing. We can sit down, and many of the older people do. Do most churches have a long worship time with standing? My husband’s church, where I use to attend, is more up and down which is easier on the body.

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  6. Our present worship leader (we used to call them music directors) permits us to sit to sing at times. The previous director had us to stand for every song.

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  8. On last night’s discussion of women as ministers. That was one of the problems I had with the Episcopal church–among many others. A committee chooses who the Priest will be but sometime the diocese will send an Associate Priest. There have been two female Associate Priests at my former church. I can’t agree with it.
    On the other hand my current priest always has women serve at the Easter Morning service. His reason for that is that women were the first to arrive and find the tomb empty. I can accept that.

    I walked in to a list of emails of things to do. I need to get busy.

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  9. A while back I woke up with an Elvis song playing in my head. I don’t know why I dreamed about this and woke up with this song playing. All morning I have listened to the chorus of it. If I have to hear “Waltzing Matilda, you’ll come a waltzing Matilda with me” then it is only fair that I share it with you!!!! It is a cute song.

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  10. Good Monday morning, all! Yes, Chas, every week starts with a Monday. But if it weren’t Monday, which would it be?

    Re: today’s quote- Would that the Democrats would realize that we are a Republic of government by the people, and that Mr. Obama and his ilk would let the people decide (i.e. through our representatives), not the executive. Unfortunately, the current executive is not the first to use his powers unconstitutionally, and he won’t be the last. The GOP leadership in the House and Senate need to get a backbone and stand up for our rights, instead of letting the courts do the job of the legislature. They have let the reigns of power go to the executive for too long! [\soapbox]

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  11. Donna – Last night you wrote about your liberal Christian Facebook friends seeming to delight in posting things against orthodox believers. As you know, YF does that, too.

    Have you thought of reminding them that those other believers are their brothers & sisters in Christ, & that Jesus told us to love one another, that we would be known as His by our love for each other? Or mentioned the various scriptures about being tenderhearted & forgiving towards each other & such? I felt compelled (by the Holy Spirit, I believe) to write those things to YF at the time. She didn’t reply, but she hasn’t posted anything like that for a while (could be just coincidence, but maybe the Holy Spirit got through to her).

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  12. off to VBS this morning. Please pray for the energy to keep up with them all!
    I have decided where I will move to this week, whew! It is quite close and there is lots of room. Family is leaving for the summer next week.

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  16. Our church’s pastor search continued with the second of 3 candidates yesterday. We liked him. But the entire process is a bit tedious I must say. It’s been nice meeting the men and their families, hearing their preaching, and having the chance to question them on various matters. It’s also proven to me that there are, in fact, stupid questions. 😯

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  18. AJ, I was about to say that’s a really nice photo.

    So how does your church do the search process? Do you hear all three men and then the search committee narrows it down to one? Or do you have all three on the ballot? In our church, the narrowing it down is done by the search committee, and they bring ONE candidate. If we vote him down (or call him and he says no), then the search committee presents another candidate. But they have narrowed it down to a recommendation before we even hear him. (They listened to sermons online, had an extensive set of questions for written answers, called the men, called their references, and then had Skype calls with the potential candidates. Only then did they narrow it down and call a man to come candidate. Then he spent the weekend meeting church people at informal meals, preached to us, answered questions, and the next week we voted on him.)

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  19. Cheryl, I nave never been in a church that considered more than one at a time.
    This does not mean that Mumsee’s church is doing it wrong. As long as not more than one is considered.

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  20. In a completely Christian world, the government would be a servant of the people, as Christians are to serve one another. However, as Christ observed, in the world, rulers exercise dominion and “lord it over” their servants. We cannot expect non-Christians to behave as Christians. Yet, Paul tells us the powers that be are ordained of God and whoever resists the power, resists God. Considering that Paul wrote those words to Romans who, living in Rome, knew exactly what Nero, the emperor at the time, was like, Paul fully grasped the significance of what he wrote. In other words, even the most corrupt government is of God.

    It is ironic that the speaker of today’s quote was a man whose family dynasty has wreaked much destruction on the world – Rockefeller money has been behind many eugenics and population control programs such as the Population Council and directly funding such programs in places like India. The Rockefeller’s have behaved to peoples as if they had the rights of life and death over them; although, not being part of any government, they have no such right. Of course, such a family would not want legitimate governments to interfere with their evil dealings.

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  21. Some notes from previous days . . .

    Karen, our repairman recommend a cheap top-loading Whirlpool (and it’s been great).

    Michele, we had the same experience with a Neptune. As a matter of fact, we replaced several of our 20-year old appliances at the same time, all with Maytags. The Neptune washer lasted all of a year. The stove burned up its own motherboard every time I self-cleaned it (and I got Maytag to fix it for free every time!), and the dishwasher never worked well and self-destructed after about three years. I will never buy another Maytag.

    On selecting a Pastor: Just before we started attending a new LCMS church after moving to Pennsylvania, they called a new Pastor. Their process went on for two years and the constitution says that if they can’t decide on a candidate, they would let the District pick a seminarian. At the end of the process, they couldn’t decide. It wasn’t that half the people wanted one and the other half the other, but rather that everyone thought they would both be fine. So they deferred to the District. Everyone (and I mean everyone) agrees that the Pastor they assigned is fabulous. God is Good. All the time.

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  22. Linda sez
    “At the end of the process, they couldn’t decide. It wasn’t that half the people wanted one and the other half the other, but rather that everyone thought they would both be fine.”

    That couldn’t happen in a Baptist church. They would not have looked at another the same time they were looking at one.
    One at a time.

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  24. Glancing back over the weekend, congrats to 6Arrows and hubby.

    My tiny church was desperate for a pastor after the former pastor retired. One of the deacons heard about a bi-vocational pastor who specialized in reviving dying churches, and so that is who they called, after he preached once and the deacon board of two interviewed him. I had nothing to do with it, being elsewhere at the time. I confess, I’ve had my doubts about their choice; however, there is nothing inherently heretical in his preaching, so I’ve decided to stick with the little church as I realize every Christian is a work in progress, and we really do need the friction of other imperfect people to mature us.

    On women pastors: I’m agin’ it. However, I have witnessed the phenomena of women preachers who are more orthodox than their male counterparts. Generally, they seem to be from denominations which are so unorthodox as to merit having the name church removed from their organization. My father grew up in the United Church and only became a Christian thanks to Baptists who witnessed to him in his 20’s, so he holds a very low opinion of the United denomination (especially as one of their leaders publicly denied the deity of Christ several years ago); but the other week, he went to a funeral of a former neighbour and a United woman minister happened to be officiating. He was stunned to hear her give the whole Gospel in her message. I wonder if they can get away with being more orthodox in such denominations because they are women.

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  25. Cheryl,

    First the elders formed a search committee. They then went and interviewed/watched/fellowshipped/questioned the applicants. The committee recommend 3 to advance to the next stage. Those 3 and their families are now coming in and preaching in the morning, spending time with the elders in the afternoon, and then meeting with the congregation in the evening for questions. Then they are dismissed and the congregation discusses the candidate. We have 1 more in 2 weeks. After this a vote will be taken. At that point the elders will make a decision on who, if any, to call. The congregation is included and gets to vote, but the final decision rests with the elder board.

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  26. I’m alive.

    Love-love-love the Mouse reflection picture, it made me smile when I opened the page. 🙂 Annie often sits on the middle ledge of her cat tree staring out the window at the tall succulent bush that grows next to the french windows alongside the house. But I’ll have to wash my windows before I can take a photo like that. 🙄

    Roscuro, your point about the female pastors “getting away” with being more orthodox in liberal denominations because they’re women is I think the case.

    I’m not sure what Kim meant by having women “serving” during Easter services (I presume not preaching, maybe doing the readings?) but I kind of liked that idea and the reason behind it.

    Cheryl outlined the process we use (I skipped describing a few steps when I responded before, but it’s been a while since I was in a church that went through it). I think we only considered one, maybe 2, at a time, it depended on the timing of the applicants as they needed to have answers as well.

    Despite what I think is a good, solid process, however, the church I was in before managed to bungle it anyway by self-appointing only the standing elders and deacons (tiny church, so these were a very few & all men) as the pulpit committee (with no vote by the congregation) and then by being way too secretive — over a period that stretched way too long — with the rest of the congregation. Tricky business. They wound up with an excellent man, but not before the church was drained of about half its membership as people gave up waiting and left over the course of what was probably more than a year. 😦 More communication would have gone a long way toward keeping people there, sadly.

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  27. I think Annie especially likes waiting for & watching the raccoon — with his big, fat, striped tail — that sometimes scrambles up the side bush in the evenings. Haven’t seen him lately, though.

    So, yeah, I’m alive and I think the worst is over at last. I had a piece of dry white toast last night, the first thing I’d eaten since Friday, and then slept for 10 hours (I was up late as I’d slept so much Sunday afternoon). Woke up feeling human, at least, especially after a long hot shower. But moving slowly …

    In reading about stomach viruses online, it said they can last anywhere from 24 hours to a few days, even a week (my friend had hers for a week, but she also has Crohn’s so she figured that made hers last longer). I was hoping for the 24-hour one. Oh well.

    What a nasty thing to get though. And I honestly don’t remember having something like that as an adult, at least nothing that went more than a few hours and then left. This was brutal. I guess like that norovirus people get on cruise ships nowadays? Easily spread and caught — I made sure to use the sanitary wipes on the shopping cart when I finally dragged out to the grocery store late yesterday.

    I’m home from work today, emailed my editor last night. So I’ll see how I do, I may or may not go back tomorrow, depends. I want to make sure this thing is completely gone.

    On the plus side, I’ve lost something like 6 pounds in 2 days, but it’s all likely water. Still, I should use it as a launch to purposely lose more. If I’m smart …

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  28. Women ministers — the associate at our local Episcopal church was one of the leading voices in the gay marriage movement years ago. But, yeah, it’s funny to think that more orthodox female ministers are “tolerated” by liberal churches just because they’re women. 🙂

    Wasn’t Waltzing Matilda the song in “On the Beach,” that 1959 movie about nuclear war set in Australia (with Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner, Anthony Perkins)? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053137/

    Twin mice. 🙂

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  29. On standing in church (are you sick of me yet?)

    We stand to sing — the longest segment is for two back-to-back opening hymns at the beginning of the service, but we never stand for what is an inordinate amount of time in my view. Congregants are, of course, welcome to remain seated and many of our 90+ folks do that. Norma always needed to be sure to have a chair close enough in front of us (some rows are more widely spaced that others) so she could use that to help her stand.

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  31. By serving, I mean during Communion. Only ordained priests may give the bread/The Body of Christ. Any lay person who is approved may be a chalice bearer and give the wine/The Cup of Salvation.
    We have a mix of men and women who serve as chalice bearers and readers. We have an Ordained Deacon who reads the Gospel. At that time he is referred to as the Gospeler. Every Sunday we start with an Old Testament passage, a Psalm, a New Testament reading and a reading from one of the Gospels. They have been chosen to fit together and support a theme. The priest uses the given scriptures for that Sunday to develop his sermon.
    We stand to sing, we kneel for prayer and we sit for the rest of the service. It is a sign of respect.

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  32. I still need a few more reviews of my Sunbonnet Bride for Amazon. If three of you will contact me via email, I can send you a publisher’s copy for free–you just need to review the book for me on Amazon within a week or so. Offer good today. 🙂

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  33. Ah, thanks for the clarification Kim. We’d probably not go that far in (orthodox) Presbyterianism. 😉 Only elders and deacons can serve communion in our denomination.

    We’ve occasionally kneeled for corporate prayer during the service, but the floor is hard (we don’t have kneelers, ours is a make-do church, physically speaking). And older people can’t go to the floor and then be able to easily get back up, of course.

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  35. Kim – That’s an interesting division (between who can offer the bread vs. the wine). What is the reason for it?

    *******
    I have heard that it is acceptable for a family to take communion together in their own home, as long as it is done with reverence. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

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  39. Karen, I probably knew the answer to your question at one time but don’t really know right now how to explain it other than only a priest can consecrate the bread and wine. Consecrated bread and wine cannot be poured down a drain or garbage disposal. In the sacristy there is a special drain used to pour the consecrated wine directly into the ground. Sometimes it is saved to be taken to homebound members of the church. It may have been that traditionally only the priest could give the sacraments. It could be tradition. I just know that if two priests are present they give the bread and chalice bearers follow with the wine. If only one priest is present only one priest gives the bread.
    This is why in the past we had circuit rider clergy. There are morning and evening vespers that a family or group can celebrate without a priest. Priests would offer communion when they visited.
    The church where my mother grew up “in the country” was a Methodist Episcopal Church. One Sunday a month an Episcopal priest would serve and one Sunday a Methodist minister would serve. The other Sundays they gathered for singing and worship.

    I will send an email to my priest and see if I can get you a better answer. I am approved to bear the chalice.

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  42. Regarding who can serve communion, I tend to think of us as a priesthood of believers, & I think it is acceptable for ordinary believers to offer communion, or even take it within their own homes, as long as it is done in reverence.

    “[Y]ou also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. …But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light…”

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  43. “I have heard that it is acceptable for a family to take communion together in their own home, as long as it is done with reverence. Anyone have any thoughts on that?”

    There’s nothing wrong with believers drinking wine and eating bread as a family. But the Lord’s supper isn’t something done as the family; it is something done as the church. I don’t believe the bread and wine are somehow consecrated (though I do think they should be treated with respect–don’t just hand the leftover bread to the children to eat as a snack, for example); they are ordinary bread and ordinary wine. But it is as a church that we partake in the Lord’s supper and not as individuals or families. In our church it is elders who serve it (with a pastor always present), although one or more deacons are allowed to help serve if necessary. Retired elders often help serve, as well. I think it is acceptable for a pastor to take the Lord’s supper to a housebound invalid, as being “part” of the church who simply cannot attend. Taking it at home as a private matter is different, and we never have a hint of such a thing in Scripture.

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  44. Why do I see Mumsee when I read this?

    Shel Anderson
    When I’m an old lady, I’ll live with each kid,
    And bring so much happiness just as they did.
    I want to pay back all the joy they’ve provided.
    Returning each deed! Oh, they’ll be so excited!
    When I’m an old lady and live with my kids.

    I’ll write on the walls with reds, whites and blues,
    And I’ll bounce on the furniture wearing my shoes.
    I’ll drink from the carton and then leave it out.
    I’ll stuff all the toilets and oh, how they’ll shout!
    When I’m an old lady and live with my kids.

    When they’re on the phone and just out of reach,
    I’ll get into things like sugar and bleach.
    Oh, they’ll snap their fingers and then shake their head,
    When I’m an old lady and live with my kids.

    When they cook dinner and call me to eat,
    I’ll not eat my green beans or salad or meat,
    I’ll gag on my okra, spill milk on the table,
    And when they get angry I’ll run if I’m able!
    When I’m an old lady and live with my kids.

    I’ll sit close to the TV, through channels I’ll click,
    I’ll cross both eyes just to see if they stick.
    I’ll take off my socks and throw one away,
    And play in the mud ’til the end of the day!
    When I’m an old lady and live with my kids.

    And later in bed, I’ll lay back and sigh,
    I’ll thank God in prayer and then close my eyes.
    My kids will look down with a smile slowly creeping,
    And say with a groan, “She’s so sweet when she’s sleeping!”

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  45. Karen, for the record, I don’t think “priesthood of believers” is relevant here, since it was never priests who offered the Lord’s supper, but apostles and pastors. The Lord’s supper is not a sacrifice–that’s one thing Roman Catholics get wrong, thinking that it is–since Christ’s sacrifice was the final one, bringing to an end all sacrifices and the whole sacrificial system.

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  46. Cheryl – I should have been a bit more specific, but I’ve been writing comments between various babysitting duties, & just dashed off what was in my mind.

    The circumstances under which a family or a couple would take communion in their own home would not be to do so instead of gathering with the church, but in addition to that in special circumstances, such as after having fasted & prayed together.

    I thought of the priesthood of believers because of Kim’s references to the priests of her church. We do not believe that communion is sacrificing Jesus.

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  47. In my mind priest, pastor, minister, reverend, etc are all equal. In my church the ordained person is called a priest. In my stepmother’s church(Lutheran) the ordained person is called the pastor. In the Baptist churches I have attended it has been preacher, reverend, or doctor.
    To me…and just me personally thinking this…to allow anyone but a “professional” bless the communion bread and wine would make it common and take away the specialness of it. I could go in my own kitchen and eat a saltine cracker and take a swig of wine and call it the body and blood but it isn’t the same. I see communion as something sacred to be shared with the community of the church and to be given by someone who has dedicated his life in service to the “communion of saints”.
    I would never presume to offer bread and wine to anyone outside of the direction of an ordained person.

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  48. To clarify further what I wrote above: Taking communion in the home would not be an ordinary or usual thing to do, but could be done in special circumstances, for special reasons, such as the end of a special time of fasting & prayer, as I mentioned above.

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  49. I understand what you are saying Karen, but everything in my rebels against it. I would find it sacrilegious. I cannot think of a circumstance where I would feel justified in performing communion myself. When my father in law was dying the priest from our church came and gave him communion. It was his comfort to FIL and us in a time of saying good bye. I can’t imagine a situation in which a minister or priest would refuse to come to your home to offer communion if you were a member of their church—other than I am too lazy to attend church.

    I certainly do not mean to be argumentative or confrontational but I do think some things just aren’t done.

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  50. Karen,

    I wasn’t thinking you meant avoid church and just have it at home; I think I understood what you meant. But a fast (using your example) is ended by eating, not by a sacrament. Scripture gives no hint of the Lord’s supper being observed outside a gathering of the church. Even a pastor can’t just casually offer it. He cannot, for example, go to a hospital and go bed to bed and offer the Lord’s supper to people who are not members of his church and under his spiritual authority.

    Do you know the literal meaning of the word excommunicate? It is barring someone from the table . . . because the elders of the church offer access, and those under church discipline can be denied access. You don’t just “take yourself to communion” any more than you baptize yourself. If you can find Scripture that says otherwise, I’d be interested in seeing it. Otherwise, I’d say you don’t have such spiritual authority, and will not gain any spiritual benefit by doing so without spiritual authority. Since both blessings and curses are attendant on the Lord’s supper, it would seem that spiritual authority is necessary here, not just making up one’s own rules. (In other words, partaking wrongly subjects oneself to judgment . . . what is the up-side that is worth that? You’d better be pretty sure that Scripture authorizes this, and not do it lightly.)

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  54. 1 Corinthians 11:27-31 have quite alot to say about attitude and searching ones heart, but nothing about who may serve it. I believe those are man made rules without a scriptural basis.

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  55. Our church observes the Lord’s Supper weekly, which I love. The gathering of the church every week is centered around Word and Sacrament. (But if our pastor is gone and no other ordained pastor is in the congregation on a particular Sunday, communion is not observed — I’m in a sister denomination of Cheryl’s, so we all pretty much have the same church order.)

    Our pastor and our church were once independent, affiliated (loosely) with Foursquare, so they did sometimes share communion more casually (outside the church gathering). But the church leadership later came to see that as unbiblical.

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  56. They came to see it as something that biblically was meant to be observed within the context of the church gathered, complete with the serious cautions about the state of partakers’ hearts and with fencing the table.

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  57. Argh. Getting harangued by editor about whether I can cover the annual beach (pollution) report card announcement on Wednesday.

    He’s agitated — I hadn’t seen the original email he sent earlier today (being home sick and all), so he fires off a followup one tonight with 5 question marks behind it asking “can you get back to me on this?????”

    sheesh. OK, OK already. I’ll go.

    Good grief.

    Sometimes the idea of not working (briefly) appeals to me.

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