I’m troubled by the Duggar witch hunt. I am not a fan, I’m more like what Lynn Vincent described as “that highway accident you’re creeping toward. You know you shouldn’t look and yet there’s that morbid fascination . . . ”
My questions keep coming back to, how would I have handled this in my own family? How do all these detractors know the family hasn’t dealt with their daughters? I thought minors’ records were scrubbed when they reached adulthood if they dealt with the issues.
I’m troubled by Christians piling on, though I’m not surprised at all the haters out there.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be in the public eye. Paint a bulls-eye on their backs and watch them disintegrate and take their families with them.
I’ve had the same thoughts. To be honest, I’d never even heard of him or that family until all of this happened. But there appear to be a good number of people who seem almost gleeful at the “news.”
The argument that we got Obama and his policies because of frustrated conservatives who didn’t vote down the Republican line is…please get this into your head…NOT VALID.
I haven’t followed the trade issue closely (and so I don’t have a strong opinion on this legislation one way or the other at this point), but it looks to me that it had bipartisan support — and bipartisan opposition.
There’s nothing wrong with working across the aisle on issues.
I see on FoxNews that a Cleveland police officer was acquitted of the charge of killing a black man and woman after a police chase.
The Justice Department is looking into it.
What can the Justice Department do. The man is acquitted. Any further prosecution would be double jeopardy. He’s free, regardless of what Justice Dept. does…
Michelle, I too am worried about the Duggar story. Keep in mind that I was formerly in the same program (ATI) that Duggars were involved in. I knew a family who knew them. I have conflicting feelings. I do not think the problem was handled properly when it happened. It is not the only case of sibling on sibling abuse which occurred and was improperly dealt with within ATI. I know of other cases, some involving personal acquaintances. However, there is nothing to suggest that Josh Duggar is anything but repentant. I’m not sure that you can hold a juvenile to the same standard you hold an adult. Most criminal codes do not. There is a time to put the past behind and move on.
Sadly, terribly, children sometimes sexually abuse one another, but they are not viewed as morally culpable in the way an adult predator is viewed. The child who molested me when I was a young child was only a few months older than I. I would never think of bringing public or criminal charges on someone who had obviously been a victim of perverted adults (the child said a lot about past experiences). Nor do I consider that I am covering for a potential predator in not going public. Despite popular rumour, statistically, victims of sexual abuse are no more likely than the average population to go on to be abusers. I view myself as yet another indirect victim of some perverted adult or adults who hurt my playmate. Sexual abuse of one child is like dropping a pebble into a pool of water.
Roscuro – A friend, who seems to hate the Duggars, has shared on Facebook a picture supposedly from curriculum the Duggars use in homeschool. It is from a page about Counseling Sexual Abuse, & there is a section for “If abused was not at fault.” (Supposedly, God would compensate them by giving spiritual power.) Of course, that would mean that the writers of that curriculum believe that a sexual abuse victim can be at fault.
Is that something ATI actually teaches? From what you know of the Duggars, do you think this really could have come from their curriculum?
I have never seen their show, & am only familiar with them from references to them I see here & there.
” … Here is the key, if you want to dig into the serious coverage. How early does the name “Bill Gothard” appear and to what degree does the coverage make it sound like Gothard and his disciples represent mainstream evangelicalism or even orthodox (let alone Orthodox or Catholic) Christianity? At this point, I should note that I grew up in a conservative Southern Baptist home, the son of a pastor, yet in a family in which I don’t think I ever heard a positive word spoken about Gothard and his whole “Institute in Basic Life Principles” world. Yet there were other Southern Baptists who took Gothard’s word as gospel.
“In other words, there is a division out there among conservative Christians on almost every topic linked to the Duggars and, especially, Gothard. …. “
Karen, these two links contain actual documents from the ATI/IBLP material.
Ignore the comments on this one. I frequently agree with the concerns this website expresses; but I greatly dislike how the commenters are taking the Duggar story: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/05/gracenote/#more
This contains a horrifying little pamphlet on counseling sexual abuse victims, which I remember seeing during my time in ATI. Notice point two. Considering the body to be of less importance than the soul is a revival of ancient Gnostic heresy, which considered the material world to be evil and the spiritual world good [They denied that Christ came in the body and were the heresy that both Paul and John warned against. The Gnostics either lived licentious lives, because it didn’t matter what you did in the body as long as you had knowledge (gnosis is Greek for knowledge) of the spiritual; or ascetic lives, denying their bodily needs to attain the knowledge of the spiritual]: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/
” …. You see, the church does not find its identity in politics. Nor does it find its identity in cultural approval. Not even a little. And although we may vote our conscience and strongly voice our opinion for right and wrong, a bad result at the polls is not a setback for the church. The kingdom of God remains completely unaffected. The results, however sinful, are ordained for a purpose which God uses for His sovereign good purposes … they are always in God’s hand so we don’t equate a win as a victory for the kingdom of God nor a loss as a defeat. Victory comes only as hearts are changed through the gospel. And, in every era, this has been known to happen even under the the most corrupt, tyrannical and anti-Christian forms of government. The times of the greatest oppression for the church have usually been the times of its greatest growth. And we, in the United States, are not even remotely approaching that kind of hardship. But we look to our brothers and sisters in other parts of the world who are experiencing some of the fiercest persecution even known. …”
Wandering Views 
I’m troubled by the Duggar witch hunt. I am not a fan, I’m more like what Lynn Vincent described as “that highway accident you’re creeping toward. You know you shouldn’t look and yet there’s that morbid fascination . . . ”
My questions keep coming back to, how would I have handled this in my own family? How do all these detractors know the family hasn’t dealt with their daughters? I thought minors’ records were scrubbed when they reached adulthood if they dealt with the issues.
I’m troubled by Christians piling on, though I’m not surprised at all the haters out there.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be in the public eye. Paint a bulls-eye on their backs and watch them disintegrate and take their families with them.
Travesty.
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I’ve had the same thoughts. To be honest, I’d never even heard of him or that family until all of this happened. But there appear to be a good number of people who seem almost gleeful at the “news.”
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I searched Drudge for “Duggar” but didn’t find anything.
I still don’t know what that is all about.
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Here you go:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/21/us/josh-duggar-child-molestation-allegations/
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I posted it last night but I’ll repost here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-wins-trade-victory-in-the-senate/2015/05/22/1cb6958e-00c7-11e5-8b6c-0dcce21e223d_story.html
The argument that we got Obama and his policies because of frustrated conservatives who didn’t vote down the Republican line is…please get this into your head…NOT VALID.
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The guy was 15 when it happened. It’s over and done.
Nothing else can be done about it.
Leave it alone.
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I haven’t followed the trade issue closely (and so I don’t have a strong opinion on this legislation one way or the other at this point), but it looks to me that it had bipartisan support — and bipartisan opposition.
There’s nothing wrong with working across the aisle on issues.
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I see on FoxNews that a Cleveland police officer was acquitted of the charge of killing a black man and woman after a police chase.
The Justice Department is looking into it.
What can the Justice Department do. The man is acquitted. Any further prosecution would be double jeopardy. He’s free, regardless of what Justice Dept. does…
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Happy Memorial Day:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/05/happy-memorial-day-to-me.php
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Michelle, I too am worried about the Duggar story. Keep in mind that I was formerly in the same program (ATI) that Duggars were involved in. I knew a family who knew them. I have conflicting feelings. I do not think the problem was handled properly when it happened. It is not the only case of sibling on sibling abuse which occurred and was improperly dealt with within ATI. I know of other cases, some involving personal acquaintances. However, there is nothing to suggest that Josh Duggar is anything but repentant. I’m not sure that you can hold a juvenile to the same standard you hold an adult. Most criminal codes do not. There is a time to put the past behind and move on.
Sadly, terribly, children sometimes sexually abuse one another, but they are not viewed as morally culpable in the way an adult predator is viewed. The child who molested me when I was a young child was only a few months older than I. I would never think of bringing public or criminal charges on someone who had obviously been a victim of perverted adults (the child said a lot about past experiences). Nor do I consider that I am covering for a potential predator in not going public. Despite popular rumour, statistically, victims of sexual abuse are no more likely than the average population to go on to be abusers. I view myself as yet another indirect victim of some perverted adult or adults who hurt my playmate. Sexual abuse of one child is like dropping a pebble into a pool of water.
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Roscuro – A friend, who seems to hate the Duggars, has shared on Facebook a picture supposedly from curriculum the Duggars use in homeschool. It is from a page about Counseling Sexual Abuse, & there is a section for “If abused was not at fault.” (Supposedly, God would compensate them by giving spiritual power.) Of course, that would mean that the writers of that curriculum believe that a sexual abuse victim can be at fault.
Is that something ATI actually teaches? From what you know of the Duggars, do you think this really could have come from their curriculum?
I have never seen their show, & am only familiar with them from references to them I see here & there.
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Chas – From what I have read, I would say the outrage over Josh Duggar is for two particular reasons (writing from what others are saying):
1. He has been outspoken about “family values” type issues, & this revelation makes many people think he is a huge hypocrite.
2. His dad did not take him to report this to the police until after the statute of limitations (three years in their state) had expired.
Also, he did not get any real counseling, but was sent to do some physical labor with a family friend for a few months.
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Interesting.
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2015/05/alabama-senate-passes-bill-to-effectively-nullify-all-sides-on-marriage/
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Oklahoma has been working on a similar idea.
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Interesting piece (from a Christian perspective) on the news coverage of the Duggars:
http://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2015/5/24/washington-post-gets-it-the-duggar-tv-empire-made-all-kinds-of-people-nervous
” … Here is the key, if you want to dig into the serious coverage. How early does the name “Bill Gothard” appear and to what degree does the coverage make it sound like Gothard and his disciples represent mainstream evangelicalism or even orthodox (let alone Orthodox or Catholic) Christianity? At this point, I should note that I grew up in a conservative Southern Baptist home, the son of a pastor, yet in a family in which I don’t think I ever heard a positive word spoken about Gothard and his whole “Institute in Basic Life Principles” world. Yet there were other Southern Baptists who took Gothard’s word as gospel.
“In other words, there is a division out there among conservative Christians on almost every topic linked to the Duggars and, especially, Gothard. …. “
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Karen, these two links contain actual documents from the ATI/IBLP material.
Ignore the comments on this one. I frequently agree with the concerns this website expresses; but I greatly dislike how the commenters are taking the Duggar story: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/05/gracenote/#more
This contains a horrifying little pamphlet on counseling sexual abuse victims, which I remember seeing during my time in ATI. Notice point two. Considering the body to be of less importance than the soul is a revival of ancient Gnostic heresy, which considered the material world to be evil and the spiritual world good [They denied that Christ came in the body and were the heresy that both Paul and John warned against. The Gnostics either lived licentious lives, because it didn’t matter what you did in the body as long as you had knowledge (gnosis is Greek for knowledge) of the spiritual; or ascetic lives, denying their bodily needs to attain the knowledge of the spiritual]: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/
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Thanks, Roscuro. Also, thank you for the link you shared the other day, about the issue of homosexuality in the Bible.
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Both physical & sexual abuse are abuse of the spirit as well.
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Good reminder:
http://www.monergism.com/blog/gods-glory-and-churchs-weakness
” …. You see, the church does not find its identity in politics. Nor does it find its identity in cultural approval. Not even a little. And although we may vote our conscience and strongly voice our opinion for right and wrong, a bad result at the polls is not a setback for the church. The kingdom of God remains completely unaffected. The results, however sinful, are ordained for a purpose which God uses for His sovereign good purposes … they are always in God’s hand so we don’t equate a win as a victory for the kingdom of God nor a loss as a defeat. Victory comes only as hearts are changed through the gospel. And, in every era, this has been known to happen even under the the most corrupt, tyrannical and anti-Christian forms of government. The times of the greatest oppression for the church have usually been the times of its greatest growth. And we, in the United States, are not even remotely approaching that kind of hardship. But we look to our brothers and sisters in other parts of the world who are experiencing some of the fiercest persecution even known. …”
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