Not good:
“Signs of death and destruction dot this eastern Ukraine city. A psychiatric hospital lies in ruins. The church-run orphanage is slowly repairing its damaged facility. A church across town mourns the tragic murder of four of its leaders at the hands of insurgents who kidnapped the men after a Sunday church service.
It’s been a hard half-year here. Last April, Russian-backed separatists pulled into the courtyard of Good News Church and aimed their weapons at the building, sending pastor Peter Dudnik and dozens of church volunteers running for safety. The troops vainly searched for materials tying the church to radical elements in the country, but the church had no political ties. Two weeks later, separatist forces drove their tanks onto the church grounds and took over the building. Many locals decided it was time to move out of the city.” http://www.worldmag.com/2014/10/cold_realities
Ricky, the story is told in Columbia that when the Yankees arrived, they were looking for the First Baptist Church. That is where the South Carolina secession was voted. They wanted to burn the church down. They asked a black janitor where it was. He told them it was around the corner. So they rode down and burned the Methodist church down.
I never researched to determine if that was true.
Many in South Carolina opposed secession, but when the time came, they fought for the state. In those days, it was the state.
Ricky, the invasion of the Carolinas was, as you say, 150 years ago. Time enough to forgive, as Christ commanded us. What is happening in Ukraine is going on right now. This is how Putin is using the Russian Orthodox church, as a weapon against the culture and faith of others. He is more subtle than his Communist forerunners, he knows that religion is more powerful than an atheism in drawing people after a cause. However, the end result is the same – persecution of genuine Christians.
Putin will protect Ukranian children from Organized Perversion, a huge threat to Christianity and young people. The parts of the Ukraine that side with the West will see their churches infiltrated and corrupted by perversion as has happened in the US, Canada and Western Europe.
I can forgive, but I hate to see Yankee culture and the Yankee government force the South to accept the promotion of perversion to its youth even as it also forced the South to legalize abortion.
Roscuro, it wasn’t really the defeat in the war that devastated the South. It was the radical reconstruction, which wasn’t a reconstruction at all.
Lincoln wouldn’t have permitted the occupation that occurred after the war. Carpetbaggers was a derogatory name given to many of the Yankees that came south to suck the blood of the defeated.
I find it interesting that World chooses to attack Putin when it is the US and its moronic allies (the UK, Canada, etc) that are the larger threats to Christendom, Biblical morality, peace and stability.
1. Did Putin start an asinine war that replaced a stable Arab regime with complete chaos at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and a trillion dollars? No. That was the West.
2. Did Putin use the UN to promote abortion, perversion and radical feminism to nations around the world? No. That was the West.
3. Did Putin support revolts and democracy throughout the Middle East leading to death, destruction and unprecedented persecution of the Church? No. That was the West.
4. Does Putin’s government force Christians to participate in celebrations of immorality and perversion? No. That only happens in the West.
5. Does Putin allow young children to be “adopted” by perverts or given drugs to attempt to modify their gender by demented parents? No.
Before Western Christians are critical of specks in Russian eyes, we need to remove the beams from our own.
Chas, I know, I have read a lot of history. However, we cannot live in the shadow of the offenses of history. I often read the frustration of the Southerners here about the resentment of African Americans for the atrocities of the slave trade and ‘Jim Crow’ laws. I am sure the ‘Yankees’, as Ricky calls them, feel the same frustration and hurt when the Civil War and Reconstruction are thrown in their faces. As one whose ancestors were neither involved in the slave trade or in the Civil War, I also know that, if you go back far enough, you will find that no people in any country is innocent of perpetrating evil on others.
Ricky,I surprised that you would defend a leader whose followers have actually harmed and even martyred your fellow Christians. I don’t know about the U.S., but Canada’s churches are doing just fine. We didn’t agree with gay marriage when the law was passed nearly ten years ago, and we don’t now. There are things that concern us, but many of us have learned that our trust is in God, not the government. I pray for God’s mercy on my country, but I know that Christ’s church will last forever.
The Church in the US is very sick. Organized perversion has infiltrated the Catholic Church and many Protestant congregations and institutions. I am thankful for the Eastern Orthodox Church and its friend and supporter, Vladimir Putin.
Ricky, I don’t know what that guy is talking about. In the spring, I attended my sibling’s wedding, and the pastor preached on how marriage is between one man and one woman, and nobody came after him or us. We are free to express our opinions publicly – a prominent Christian Canadian blogger frequently comments on or links to articles on gay marriage and nobody has shut him down. As the author says, he isn’t Canadian, so he really doesn’t know the full situation. The very fact that he quoted an writer from Maclean’s one of Canada’s foremost magazines, that dissented from the Supreme Court ruling is proof that freedom of speech isn’t dead.
But its interesting how freedoms can be chipped away at, until … We must all be vigilant. What may begin as public “polite” intimidation (don’t speak up on some issues) can escalate – that that’s always the danger inherent in government in general.
In a column about the recent Houston, Texas, sermons issue, Albert Mohler wrote this: ” …This is how religious liberty dies. Liberties die by a thousand cuts. An intimidating letter here, a subpoena there, a warning in yet another place. The message is simple and easily understood. Be quiet or risk trouble. … ”
We think today that we can still speak out for traditional marriage — and we can. But if pressure continues to mount, is it so hard to envision that someday, maybe in a generation, maybe further into the future, there could be something more than intimidation to face?
The history of nations where governments grow and become more and more authoritarian bears this out too many times for us to ignore.
Donna, I know you won’t mind me speaking my mind, as I don’t mean this personally. So here goes: First off, the slippery-slope/thin-edge-of-the-wedge argument is considered a logical fallacy.
Secondly, I don’t hold that government is a necessary evil that must be kept to a minimum. Before anyone calls me a socialist, neither do I hold that more government control means a better society. My opinion of government is formed by Paul’s description of it in Romans 13 and by Peter in I Peter 2. In both cases, though they lived, and died, under one of the most morally debauched Roman emperors – a man of whom two Roman historians record that he married a male eunuch and used him as a wife – they said the rulers were given by God to punish evildoers and if Christians did good, they would be praised by the authorities. They had every reason to doubt that assertion, but they wrote it anyway.
Yes, we will suffer persecution, but that is in the nature of being a Christian. The government may or may not be involved. In the West African country were I worked, there was freedom of religion federally – persecution happened at the community level, and it could include being ostracised, attacked, even killed by your own family. If the primary reason for limiting government power is to prevent future persecution, then there is something wrong with the church’s commitment to Christ.
I am frankly, sick and tired of Western Christians wringing their hands over every perceived assault on their liberty. They spend so much time watching for the falling axe, that they ignore the great freedom that they do enjoy. If it really does come to imprisonment and execution, they will have already suffered the agonies of martyrdom in anticipation. Sure, it isn’t easy to stand against the culture rot – Christ never said it would be, but He did say to be of courage, because He had overcome the world. The real reason the Western church is faltering (it will not die) is because its members don’t really believe what God said.
By the way, let me give you a real-life example of how whining gets Christians nowhere. A graduate of a Christian university in Canada, applied for a job posting. She received a rejection letter which attacked her choice of a college and demanding why a bigot like her would want to work for a company that supported homosexuality. After a few more fruitless email exchanges, she took her story, with a declaration of intent take her case to the Human Rights Commission (yes, the same commission that Christians have been brought before by homosexual groups), to the national broadcaster. The broadcaster released her story. It was also picked up by the prominent blogger I mentioned above.
Roscuro – Is the slippery slope argument really a fallacy? We have seen the slippery slope at work with regards to moral issues. For example, as homosexuality has been normalized in western society, other forms of sexual deviancy have started to be normalized as well, such as polyamory & polygamy, or the transgender issue.
I know there are other examples, but I’m tired & can’t think of them right now.
Roscuro, My primary problem with the West has nothing to do with “any assault on my liberty”. My problem with the West is that it is the primary promoter of abortion, perversion and immorality in the world. The West also destabilized the Middle East leading to massive loss of life and persecution. Many US Christians see the US as a type of modern Israel, full of God’s chosen people. The US has become Babylon. Your comparison with Ancient Rome is very good. I am tired of Western Christians (who live in democracies and are therefore somewhat responsible for our own governments) parroting their governments’ criticism of Russia (which is fighting to clean up the messes we made). We first need to clean up our own houses.
Karen, I lived in a polygamous society who had no intention of introducing gay marriage and the same supreme court of Canada that ruled for gay marriage ruled against polygamy. Undoubtedly, other sexual deviants are trying to pull the orientation card now. However, the liberal-tending CBC has just fired a high-profile host for his abusive BDSM behaviours, so there are still limits to what people find acceptable.
Note: Transgenders are not necessarily sexual deviants, some have what is called a dysmorphic disorder in which they are persuaded that they should be of the opposite gender, the way anorexics think they are fat when they are really emaciated. Unfortunately, their condition – which should not be treated with surgery any more than anorexia should be treated with a gastric bypass – has been high-jacked by transvestites, who have a fetish for dressing like the opposite gender in order to obtain sexual gratification. Something to remember when you see drag queens in the media spotlight – they are using genuinely sick and confused people to further their deviant behaviour.
Ricky, the wrongs committed by the West, do not exonerate Putin and his acolytes from the wrongs they have committed to Christians. Putin will be held responsible before God for the deaths of those four church leaders. Beware of desiring an earthly power to protect Christianity – you will end up with a King Saul.
I don’t desire an earthly leader to “protect” Christianity. However, I find it ironic when Christians from countries whose idiotic actions caused the deaths and displacement of thousands of Christians are critical of Putin. It is also ironic when Putin stands up for Christian moral values while Western political leaders try to turn the heathen into perverts and prostitutes. It would be nice if a few Western Christian leaders said thanks to Putin and asked their own leaders to stop being the largest promoters of immorality in the world.
Ricky, ISIS originated in Syria, the country that was left to fight it out amongst themselves, despite a few warning noises from the UN. Russia prevented a UN declaration against Syria. By implication, Russia could be said to have allowed this mess to happen. But lets blame all the rich countries, and not hold a vicious, sociopathic, fanatical group responsible for their own actions. Maybe it would have been better to not go to Iraq, maybe not,- when I heard what kind of men Saddam’s sons were, I said they could just have waited until Saddam had died, as his sons’ insane brutality would have triggered a civil war – but ISIS did not come from Iraq as was first suggested in the media. They just took advantage of an unstable government and a discontented population.
By the way, you have too negative a view of things. Yes, the West has done much damage. But God still works everything out for good. The Western church sends out many missionaries, which do not try to convert the ‘heathen’ to perversion, but to witness to them about Christ. There are laws in place in the US and Canada which actually facilitate this mission activity; while the stability and prosperity of the countries help to support and protect those missionaries, just as the Pax Romana helped ease Paul’s journeys.
Roscuro, Iraq was an important bulwark against Iran. Reagan understood this. Toppling Hussein would lead to chaos. Imposing democracy in Iraq would lead to an ally for Iran and a Sunni rebellion. Big Bush understood this. The West has supported the removal of longtime leaders in the Middle East. This has led to radicals in power, chaos, persecution of Christians, war and loss of life in Iraq, in Egypt, in Libya, and in Syria. Putin, in close consultation with Christian leaders on the ground, has consistently supported existing governments and stability. Are you aware that virtually all the Christians in Syria support Assad?
As noted above, Christianity (and its missionary efforts) are in decline in the US and Canada. Christianity is growing in other parts of the world where perversion and bad theology has not yet infiltrated the church to any large extent. Bible-believing Episcopalians (yes, there are some) have put themselves under the authority of African Bishops in order to avoid being led by perverted American bishops.
Ricky, the U.S. still sends out the most missionaries of any country in the world. Be careful not to slur the name the tens of thousands of genuine, godly, missionaries from the West who are, right now, working to spread the Gospel at great personal cost.
As for Iraq, you do realize that Saddam would one day have died, and so would Gaddafi – their regimes would eventually have toppled. I am not aware that virtually all Syrian Christians support Assad, because not all did – some joined the first peaceful protests. Others simply took no part in politics – an wise thing to do when one is under a dictatorship. Some did work with Assad – what of it? It doesn’t diminish the fact that Assad is a brutal tyrant. Sadly, those who worked with Assad afforded the opportunistic militant rebel groups with an excuse to target all Christians.
I know a number of young American missionaries who are thrilled to be on the field so that their children will not have to grow up in the decadent and perverted United States of America.
Roscuro, You do realize that Middle Eastern countries can handle the deaths of autocratic leaders without a civil war, terrible persecution of Christians, a refugee crisis, chaos and anarchy. Assad’s father died and Sadat was assassinated. This did not produce violent civil wars and anarchy. What led directly to the deaths, persecution and forced relocation of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, Egypt, Libya and Syria were Western invasions and Western-backed rebellions and/or democracies. Putin (who unlike Western leaders has some common sense and tends to act in the interest of his own nation) supported existing governments and stability. The US and Canada conducted an invasion and supported rebellions and democracies which led immediately to the chaos that now exists.
The US and Canada are as hypocritical as they are foolish. What started the current crisis in the Ukraine was the Western-backed rebellion against the duly-elected leader of Ukraine. He was a bad leader, but shouldn’t the “democratic” West have encouraged Ukrainians to follow your advice and live peaceably under their elected leaders until the next election?
Ricky, missionaries who go to the field to get away from perversion are very naive. The young men in the culture that I was in were very hardened and sexual experimentation on each other was common. Young girls had little protection from rapists. It is that way in many cultures. In Japan, Bangladesh, Egypt, and many other places in Asia, Middle East and Africa, women are often groped in public; in Afghanistan, beautiful young boys are kept by older men; in India, there are whole communities of crossdressers who are the traditional entertainers at wedding. Perversion of sexuality needs no exporting – it comes naturally to humans.
Canada was not involved in the Second Iraqi War and never set foot in Lybia. The degree of Western interference in Ukraine’s government was only words, urging a president – the fairness of whose election was in grave question – to listen to the demands of his people. Which is exactly the same degree of Western interference that was given to Assad in Syria – urging him to listen to the peaceful protesters – and that didn’t cause him to step down. Give some credit to the Ukrainians for knowing what they were doing and what they wanted. You often speak with resentment of interference of the north, and their historical wrongs to the south – you should understand why Ukrainians want nothing to do with a country that deliberately starved and relocated them in the past.
By the way, I am not convinced by the PR propaganda of a dictator. The Patriarchs remarks do not indicate support or disapproval of Assad – they are appropriately neutral.
Roscuro, You are correct that perversion exists around the world. But which governments promote and spread perversion around the world? What governments are largely under the control of perverts? In what countries do the public schools promote perversion? My young missionary friends are in the field! They can compare their current locations with the Sodom they left behind.
Why don’t you give some credit to the Eastern Ukranians who do not want to be aligned with a decadent and perverted West?
Roscuro – I still need to catch up on this interesting discussion, but I just wanted to drop in to say that I did not intend to lump transgender people with sexual deviants. The way I worded that sentence was awkward The comma & the “or” were supposed to end the sexual deviant part, but I can see where it doesn’t look that way.
One thing on your reply – You mentioned the polygamous society that did not seem poised to accept homosexuality. I would guess that it has been a polygamous society for a long time, so it is considered the norm. But in western society, homosexuality has only been accepted as normal for a couple decades or so (?), going from being considered abnormal to normal, & now other forms of sexuality & relationships are emerging as trying to be accepted as normal.
One of my daughters (I’m not sure about the other) seems to think the polygamy is okay, as long as that’s what the people involved want. My niece was once in a polyamorous relationship with a man & a woman.
BTW, I kind of forget how this slippery slope topic started, but I’m referring to the slippery slope in morals & in what is accepted by “society”, not to what laws may or may not be passed or overturned in regards to those activities &/or behaviors.
Wandering Views 
Not good:
“Signs of death and destruction dot this eastern Ukraine city. A psychiatric hospital lies in ruins. The church-run orphanage is slowly repairing its damaged facility. A church across town mourns the tragic murder of four of its leaders at the hands of insurgents who kidnapped the men after a Sunday church service.
It’s been a hard half-year here. Last April, Russian-backed separatists pulled into the courtyard of Good News Church and aimed their weapons at the building, sending pastor Peter Dudnik and dozens of church volunteers running for safety. The troops vainly searched for materials tying the church to radical elements in the country, but the church had no political ties. Two weeks later, separatist forces drove their tanks onto the church grounds and took over the building. Many locals decided it was time to move out of the city.”
http://www.worldmag.com/2014/10/cold_realities
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The destruction, desecration and theft of churches is exactly what the Yankees did when they invaded Virginia and the Carolinas 150 years ago.
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Ricky, the story is told in Columbia that when the Yankees arrived, they were looking for the First Baptist Church. That is where the South Carolina secession was voted. They wanted to burn the church down. They asked a black janitor where it was. He told them it was around the corner. So they rode down and burned the Methodist church down.
I never researched to determine if that was true.
Many in South Carolina opposed secession, but when the time came, they fought for the state. In those days, it was the state.
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Good story, Chas! In Virginia the Yankees used some churches for stables and turned others over to be used by abolitionist preachers.
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Ricky, the invasion of the Carolinas was, as you say, 150 years ago. Time enough to forgive, as Christ commanded us. What is happening in Ukraine is going on right now. This is how Putin is using the Russian Orthodox church, as a weapon against the culture and faith of others. He is more subtle than his Communist forerunners, he knows that religion is more powerful than an atheism in drawing people after a cause. However, the end result is the same – persecution of genuine Christians.
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Putin will protect Ukranian children from Organized Perversion, a huge threat to Christianity and young people. The parts of the Ukraine that side with the West will see their churches infiltrated and corrupted by perversion as has happened in the US, Canada and Western Europe.
I can forgive, but I hate to see Yankee culture and the Yankee government force the South to accept the promotion of perversion to its youth even as it also forced the South to legalize abortion.
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Roscuro, it wasn’t really the defeat in the war that devastated the South. It was the radical reconstruction, which wasn’t a reconstruction at all.
Lincoln wouldn’t have permitted the occupation that occurred after the war. Carpetbaggers was a derogatory name given to many of the Yankees that came south to suck the blood of the defeated.
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I find it interesting that World chooses to attack Putin when it is the US and its moronic allies (the UK, Canada, etc) that are the larger threats to Christendom, Biblical morality, peace and stability.
1. Did Putin start an asinine war that replaced a stable Arab regime with complete chaos at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives and a trillion dollars? No. That was the West.
2. Did Putin use the UN to promote abortion, perversion and radical feminism to nations around the world? No. That was the West.
3. Did Putin support revolts and democracy throughout the Middle East leading to death, destruction and unprecedented persecution of the Church? No. That was the West.
4. Does Putin’s government force Christians to participate in celebrations of immorality and perversion? No. That only happens in the West.
5. Does Putin allow young children to be “adopted” by perverts or given drugs to attempt to modify their gender by demented parents? No.
Before Western Christians are critical of specks in Russian eyes, we need to remove the beams from our own.
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Chas, I know, I have read a lot of history. However, we cannot live in the shadow of the offenses of history. I often read the frustration of the Southerners here about the resentment of African Americans for the atrocities of the slave trade and ‘Jim Crow’ laws. I am sure the ‘Yankees’, as Ricky calls them, feel the same frustration and hurt when the Civil War and Reconstruction are thrown in their faces. As one whose ancestors were neither involved in the slave trade or in the Civil War, I also know that, if you go back far enough, you will find that no people in any country is innocent of perpetrating evil on others.
Ricky,I surprised that you would defend a leader whose followers have actually harmed and even martyred your fellow Christians. I don’t know about the U.S., but Canada’s churches are doing just fine. We didn’t agree with gay marriage when the law was passed nearly ten years ago, and we don’t now. There are things that concern us, but many of us have learned that our trust is in God, not the government. I pray for God’s mercy on my country, but I know that Christ’s church will last forever.
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World isn’t the only one criticizing Putin: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-s-religious-freedom-ambassador-blasts-putin-on-eve-of-ukraine-visit-1.2788638
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The Canadian Ambassador would do well to stop nagging Putin and examine his country’s law that muzzles Christians while protecting perversion.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-bawer/canadian-supreme-court-kills-last-hope-for-free-speech/
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The Church in Canada is slowly dying.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/06/27/canadas-changing-religious-landscape/
The Church in Western Europe is almost dead.
The Church in the US is very sick. Organized perversion has infiltrated the Catholic Church and many Protestant congregations and institutions. I am thankful for the Eastern Orthodox Church and its friend and supporter, Vladimir Putin.
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Ricky, I don’t know what that guy is talking about. In the spring, I attended my sibling’s wedding, and the pastor preached on how marriage is between one man and one woman, and nobody came after him or us. We are free to express our opinions publicly – a prominent Christian Canadian blogger frequently comments on or links to articles on gay marriage and nobody has shut him down. As the author says, he isn’t Canadian, so he really doesn’t know the full situation. The very fact that he quoted an writer from Maclean’s one of Canada’s foremost magazines, that dissented from the Supreme Court ruling is proof that freedom of speech isn’t dead.
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But its interesting how freedoms can be chipped away at, until … We must all be vigilant. What may begin as public “polite” intimidation (don’t speak up on some issues) can escalate – that that’s always the danger inherent in government in general.
In a column about the recent Houston, Texas, sermons issue, Albert Mohler wrote this: ” …This is how religious liberty dies. Liberties die by a thousand cuts. An intimidating letter here, a subpoena there, a warning in yet another place. The message is simple and easily understood. Be quiet or risk trouble. … ”
http://www.albertmohler.com/2014/10/17/sermons-are-fair-game-in-houston-the-real-warning-in-the-subpoena-scandal/
We think today that we can still speak out for traditional marriage — and we can. But if pressure continues to mount, is it so hard to envision that someday, maybe in a generation, maybe further into the future, there could be something more than intimidation to face?
The history of nations where governments grow and become more and more authoritarian bears this out too many times for us to ignore.
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Donna, I know you won’t mind me speaking my mind, as I don’t mean this personally. So here goes: First off, the slippery-slope/thin-edge-of-the-wedge argument is considered a logical fallacy.
Secondly, I don’t hold that government is a necessary evil that must be kept to a minimum. Before anyone calls me a socialist, neither do I hold that more government control means a better society. My opinion of government is formed by Paul’s description of it in Romans 13 and by Peter in I Peter 2. In both cases, though they lived, and died, under one of the most morally debauched Roman emperors – a man of whom two Roman historians record that he married a male eunuch and used him as a wife – they said the rulers were given by God to punish evildoers and if Christians did good, they would be praised by the authorities. They had every reason to doubt that assertion, but they wrote it anyway.
Yes, we will suffer persecution, but that is in the nature of being a Christian. The government may or may not be involved. In the West African country were I worked, there was freedom of religion federally – persecution happened at the community level, and it could include being ostracised, attacked, even killed by your own family. If the primary reason for limiting government power is to prevent future persecution, then there is something wrong with the church’s commitment to Christ.
I am frankly, sick and tired of Western Christians wringing their hands over every perceived assault on their liberty. They spend so much time watching for the falling axe, that they ignore the great freedom that they do enjoy. If it really does come to imprisonment and execution, they will have already suffered the agonies of martyrdom in anticipation. Sure, it isn’t easy to stand against the culture rot – Christ never said it would be, but He did say to be of courage, because He had overcome the world. The real reason the Western church is faltering (it will not die) is because its members don’t really believe what God said.
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By the way, let me give you a real-life example of how whining gets Christians nowhere. A graduate of a Christian university in Canada, applied for a job posting. She received a rejection letter which attacked her choice of a college and demanding why a bigot like her would want to work for a company that supported homosexuality. After a few more fruitless email exchanges, she took her story, with a declaration of intent take her case to the Human Rights Commission (yes, the same commission that Christians have been brought before by homosexual groups), to the national broadcaster. The broadcaster released her story. It was also picked up by the prominent blogger I mentioned above.
After the release, several women contacted the broadcaster with similar tales – they weren’t Christians, but they had received similar rude rejections to their applications to this company. So the broadcaster did a little investigative journalism. It turns out the company did not actually exist, and neither did the supposed employers who wrote the letters. The whole thing appeared to be a front for a sex service. In other words, the employer who was apparently discriminating against this graduate for her faith was just a twisted person making trouble. Here is the link to the original story:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/trinity-western-grad-attacked-for-being-christian-in-job-rejection-1.2791323 and the sequel: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/amaruk-wilderness-questions-raised-about-company-at-centre-of-anti-christian-attack-1.2794452. Instead of appearing a victim, the graduate now looks merely naïve in not investigating the credentials of the company to which she was applying.
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Roscuro – Is the slippery slope argument really a fallacy? We have seen the slippery slope at work with regards to moral issues. For example, as homosexuality has been normalized in western society, other forms of sexual deviancy have started to be normalized as well, such as polyamory & polygamy, or the transgender issue.
I know there are other examples, but I’m tired & can’t think of them right now.
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Roscuro, My primary problem with the West has nothing to do with “any assault on my liberty”. My problem with the West is that it is the primary promoter of abortion, perversion and immorality in the world. The West also destabilized the Middle East leading to massive loss of life and persecution. Many US Christians see the US as a type of modern Israel, full of God’s chosen people. The US has become Babylon. Your comparison with Ancient Rome is very good. I am tired of Western Christians (who live in democracies and are therefore somewhat responsible for our own governments) parroting their governments’ criticism of Russia (which is fighting to clean up the messes we made). We first need to clean up our own houses.
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Karen, I lived in a polygamous society who had no intention of introducing gay marriage and the same supreme court of Canada that ruled for gay marriage ruled against polygamy. Undoubtedly, other sexual deviants are trying to pull the orientation card now. However, the liberal-tending CBC has just fired a high-profile host for his abusive BDSM behaviours, so there are still limits to what people find acceptable.
Note: Transgenders are not necessarily sexual deviants, some have what is called a dysmorphic disorder in which they are persuaded that they should be of the opposite gender, the way anorexics think they are fat when they are really emaciated. Unfortunately, their condition – which should not be treated with surgery any more than anorexia should be treated with a gastric bypass – has been high-jacked by transvestites, who have a fetish for dressing like the opposite gender in order to obtain sexual gratification. Something to remember when you see drag queens in the media spotlight – they are using genuinely sick and confused people to further their deviant behaviour.
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Ricky, the wrongs committed by the West, do not exonerate Putin and his acolytes from the wrongs they have committed to Christians. Putin will be held responsible before God for the deaths of those four church leaders. Beware of desiring an earthly power to protect Christianity – you will end up with a King Saul.
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I don’t desire an earthly leader to “protect” Christianity. However, I find it ironic when Christians from countries whose idiotic actions caused the deaths and displacement of thousands of Christians are critical of Putin. It is also ironic when Putin stands up for Christian moral values while Western political leaders try to turn the heathen into perverts and prostitutes. It would be nice if a few Western Christian leaders said thanks to Putin and asked their own leaders to stop being the largest promoters of immorality in the world.
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Ricky, ISIS originated in Syria, the country that was left to fight it out amongst themselves, despite a few warning noises from the UN. Russia prevented a UN declaration against Syria. By implication, Russia could be said to have allowed this mess to happen. But lets blame all the rich countries, and not hold a vicious, sociopathic, fanatical group responsible for their own actions. Maybe it would have been better to not go to Iraq, maybe not,- when I heard what kind of men Saddam’s sons were, I said they could just have waited until Saddam had died, as his sons’ insane brutality would have triggered a civil war – but ISIS did not come from Iraq as was first suggested in the media. They just took advantage of an unstable government and a discontented population.
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By the way, you have too negative a view of things. Yes, the West has done much damage. But God still works everything out for good. The Western church sends out many missionaries, which do not try to convert the ‘heathen’ to perversion, but to witness to them about Christ. There are laws in place in the US and Canada which actually facilitate this mission activity; while the stability and prosperity of the countries help to support and protect those missionaries, just as the Pax Romana helped ease Paul’s journeys.
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Roscuro, Iraq was an important bulwark against Iran. Reagan understood this. Toppling Hussein would lead to chaos. Imposing democracy in Iraq would lead to an ally for Iran and a Sunni rebellion. Big Bush understood this. The West has supported the removal of longtime leaders in the Middle East. This has led to radicals in power, chaos, persecution of Christians, war and loss of life in Iraq, in Egypt, in Libya, and in Syria. Putin, in close consultation with Christian leaders on the ground, has consistently supported existing governments and stability. Are you aware that virtually all the Christians in Syria support Assad?
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As noted above, Christianity (and its missionary efforts) are in decline in the US and Canada. Christianity is growing in other parts of the world where perversion and bad theology has not yet infiltrated the church to any large extent. Bible-believing Episcopalians (yes, there are some) have put themselves under the authority of African Bishops in order to avoid being led by perverted American bishops.
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Ricky, the U.S. still sends out the most missionaries of any country in the world. Be careful not to slur the name the tens of thousands of genuine, godly, missionaries from the West who are, right now, working to spread the Gospel at great personal cost.
As for Iraq, you do realize that Saddam would one day have died, and so would Gaddafi – their regimes would eventually have toppled. I am not aware that virtually all Syrian Christians support Assad, because not all did – some joined the first peaceful protests. Others simply took no part in politics – an wise thing to do when one is under a dictatorship. Some did work with Assad – what of it? It doesn’t diminish the fact that Assad is a brutal tyrant. Sadly, those who worked with Assad afforded the opportunistic militant rebel groups with an excuse to target all Christians.
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I know a number of young American missionaries who are thrilled to be on the field so that their children will not have to grow up in the decadent and perverted United States of America.
Roscuro, You do realize that Middle Eastern countries can handle the deaths of autocratic leaders without a civil war, terrible persecution of Christians, a refugee crisis, chaos and anarchy. Assad’s father died and Sadat was assassinated. This did not produce violent civil wars and anarchy. What led directly to the deaths, persecution and forced relocation of hundreds of thousands in Iraq, Egypt, Libya and Syria were Western invasions and Western-backed rebellions and/or democracies. Putin (who unlike Western leaders has some common sense and tends to act in the interest of his own nation) supported existing governments and stability. The US and Canada conducted an invasion and supported rebellions and democracies which led immediately to the chaos that now exists.
The US and Canada are as hypocritical as they are foolish. What started the current crisis in the Ukraine was the Western-backed rebellion against the duly-elected leader of Ukraine. He was a bad leader, but shouldn’t the “democratic” West have encouraged Ukrainians to follow your advice and live peaceably under their elected leaders until the next election?
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It seems that Syrian Christians support Assad to the same degree that white, Southern males vote Republican and watch football.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/20/syrian-president-assad-reportedly-visits-christian-village/
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Ricky, missionaries who go to the field to get away from perversion are very naive. The young men in the culture that I was in were very hardened and sexual experimentation on each other was common. Young girls had little protection from rapists. It is that way in many cultures. In Japan, Bangladesh, Egypt, and many other places in Asia, Middle East and Africa, women are often groped in public; in Afghanistan, beautiful young boys are kept by older men; in India, there are whole communities of crossdressers who are the traditional entertainers at wedding. Perversion of sexuality needs no exporting – it comes naturally to humans.
Canada was not involved in the Second Iraqi War and never set foot in Lybia. The degree of Western interference in Ukraine’s government was only words, urging a president – the fairness of whose election was in grave question – to listen to the demands of his people. Which is exactly the same degree of Western interference that was given to Assad in Syria – urging him to listen to the peaceful protesters – and that didn’t cause him to step down. Give some credit to the Ukrainians for knowing what they were doing and what they wanted. You often speak with resentment of interference of the north, and their historical wrongs to the south – you should understand why Ukrainians want nothing to do with a country that deliberately starved and relocated them in the past.
By the way, I am not convinced by the PR propaganda of a dictator. The Patriarchs remarks do not indicate support or disapproval of Assad – they are appropriately neutral.
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Roscuro, You are correct that perversion exists around the world. But which governments promote and spread perversion around the world? What governments are largely under the control of perverts? In what countries do the public schools promote perversion? My young missionary friends are in the field! They can compare their current locations with the Sodom they left behind.
Why don’t you give some credit to the Eastern Ukranians who do not want to be aligned with a decadent and perverted West?
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Roscuro – I still need to catch up on this interesting discussion, but I just wanted to drop in to say that I did not intend to lump transgender people with sexual deviants. The way I worded that sentence was awkward The comma & the “or” were supposed to end the sexual deviant part, but I can see where it doesn’t look that way.
One thing on your reply – You mentioned the polygamous society that did not seem poised to accept homosexuality. I would guess that it has been a polygamous society for a long time, so it is considered the norm. But in western society, homosexuality has only been accepted as normal for a couple decades or so (?), going from being considered abnormal to normal, & now other forms of sexuality & relationships are emerging as trying to be accepted as normal.
One of my daughters (I’m not sure about the other) seems to think the polygamy is okay, as long as that’s what the people involved want. My niece was once in a polyamorous relationship with a man & a woman.
BTW, I kind of forget how this slippery slope topic started, but I’m referring to the slippery slope in morals & in what is accepted by “society”, not to what laws may or may not be passed or overturned in regards to those activities &/or behaviors.
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Roscuro, I enjoyed the discussion. You are knowlegeable and fearless. You are both an orthodox Christian and an independent thinker.
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