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Our Daily Thread 8-12-14

Good Morning!

On this day in 1676 “King Phillip’s War” came to an end with the killing of Indian chief King Phillip. The war between the Indians and the Europeans lasted for two years. 

In 1851 Isaac Singer was issued a patent on the double-headed sewing machine. 

In 1918 regular airmail service began between Washington, DC, and New York City. 

And in 1994 Major league baseball players went on strike rather than allow team owners to limit their salaries. The strike lasted for 232 days. As a result, the World Series was wiped out for the first time in 90 years. 

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Quote of the Day

“Give me any two pages of the Bible and I’ll give you a picture.”

Cecil B. DeMille

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 Since it’s his birthday, we’ll start with some of Mr. DeMille’s work.

And today is also Buck Owens’ birthday.

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Anyone have a QoD?

69 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-12-14”

  4. Morning all. I finished getting materials ready for my two new students, whom I haven’t met yet, that will be attending the Pacific Orientation Course in Madang with their families. We send curriculum in reading and math for them to do while attending this 12 week course with their families.

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  6. Hello everybody. I don’t understand none of that “like” business.
    I didn’t know Buck Owens was that good a guitarist. I connect him most to Hee Haw.

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  7. Good morning! I’ve been away for awhile and am not caught up on all the happenings around here, though I did read yesterday’s thread, but wanted to say hello. I was in Bandera for five days, visiting with my sister, who is home from Rwanda until late December. One of my brothers and his family were also there. The girls had a great time with their cousins. Four of them are Freshman in high school this year. And, I had the pleasure of meeting my new nephew, Deste Moses. He has an infectious grin and a very loving personality–it was easy to see why they fell in love with him. He is learning English rapidly (his primary language is Swahili) and is a joy to be around. He adored Becca–they are closest in age–and she had fun getting to be the older one for once (she used to be youngest grandchild on my side of family).

    L. begins high school tomorrow. It simply doesn’t seem possible! Where did the years go?!? I’m excited for her and hope her new school is a good fit. She had a mandatory orientation last night where they did lots of ice-breaker activities and met a lot of kids. There are 140 incoming freshman, which I think is the perfect size school. Please keep her in your prayers.

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  9. Regarding the death of Robin Williams: It is always tragic when we lose someone to suicide. A good friend of mine in high school killed himself six weeks before graduation. So many people were devestated by it. The ripple effect was huge. I have struggled with depression for years (mental illness is rampant in my family-of-origin), but even at my lowest point, I knew suicide was not an option because I’d seen what it does to those left behind.

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  10. I lost a friend to suicide. It is really tough on people who are always left wondering if they could have done something to prevent it I never forget that my friend called me, and I was about to go out the door on a date so I did not have much time to talk. I had no idea that would be my last time to speak with her. 😦 She did not mention that she had planned to end her life. If I had known I would have tried to talk her out of it. I think she called all her friends and left notes at work. She drove up into the Georgia mountains and shot herself in her car.

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  12. Interesting. Yu can’t like surreptitiously. If someone clicks on the “Liked by..”, the avatars come up. But Anonymous could always sneak in.

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  15. I think Buck Owens was under respected. Dwight Yoakum brought him back with Streets of Bakersfield.

    Nothing was resolved yesterday. I went home just as frustrated as I left. Seems my job description is changing again and I will not have as much opportunity to be out of the office. I won’t be using my teaching talents nor my database skills. I am a paper pusher.

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  16. Janice: I’m so sorry for your loss. I, too, struggled with “what-ifs” after my friend’s suicide. We’d been out with him at San Antonio’s Oyster Bake all day. One of my best girlfriends had been dating him seriously for about a year. She had a midnight curfew and dropped him off at his house around 11:40. His parents were out of town. A couple girls spent the night with me and the phone rang at six am with the news that Randy was dead. We were all in shock. I’ve always been thankful I wasn’t alone when I got the news.

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  17. So, can you “Like” your own posts?

    I guess #1 refers to a baseball game and the score? Since AJ wants to unlike like it, that must mean the Yankees lost by the mentioned score.

    One week left before I have to go back and be responsible again. One week before I get a room full of adolescents who have to be trained in being adults, even though some of the teachers at our school don’t act like it yet. One more week. Seven days. One hundred sixty-eight hours. Actually, the students don’t come until the 21st. So make that nine days.

    Cheryl- you asked about a homeschooling project. Since all of ours have finished high school, what about former home-schoolers?

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  18. Churn seems to be the mantra in business these days, in part because the economy really is very soft. I only know of one business that is doing well, and they’re seeing the end of their major product line and wondering if it’s time to retire. 😦

    And of course, here in progressive California, they’re about to add 15 cents more in taxes to a gallon of gas. We already have the highest gas taxes in the country, so the rest of you will REALLY have to scramble to catch us. 😦

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  19. Another reason not to drive to California. And it probably means an increase in vegetable prices, since California supplies the rest of us with veggies, and they travel by truck out of the state. And guess what the trucks run on? It ain’t vegetable oil, that’s for sure.

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  21. I can’t believe we’ll be paying 15 cents more per gallon. That’ll kill a lot of people’s budgets, frankly, unless gas prices drop (in which case they won’t really get the benefit of that, either). Ugh.

    I was so sorry to hear about Robin Williams yesterday. Tragic.

    A childhood-teen years friend of mine lost her mom by suicide — and they lived next door to our family home. We (my friend and I) were in our late 20s, maybe early 30s by then and living away from home, of course, but my mom still lived next door to her mom & it was absolutely devastating. And, yes, it leaves everyone frantically wondering what they could have/should have done. And then the anger sets in. It’s probably the hardest kind of death for those left behind to deal with.

    When I said something about that yesterday, one of the other reporters said she didn’t think it would have been that way in Robin Williams’ case since he was so clearly troubled and depressed for so long.

    But I don’t think that matters. My friend’s mom was very depressed and suicidal, too — she’d lost her husband to a heart attack (they were an extremely close couple) and she just went into a tailspin, not wanting to leave the house for months afterward. My mom spent time talking to her, bringing her meals — and tried to connect her with hotlines, because suicide was definitely a concern. But in the end there’s little someone else can do if someone’s determined to take their own life. She shot herself in the bedroom late one Saturday night (no one heard it) — my mom became concerned when she couldn’t reach her Sunday as she usually answered her phone.

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  22. Someone close to me lost two family members to suicide, first a brother and then her mother. She said that she was told with her brother, and remembered with her mom, that if someone is “determined” to do it, that it is only a matter of time until they succeed. Now, some people make one or two half-hearted attempts and that is it–and some who make such attempts probably succeed, so it’s humanly possible they could have been talked out of it. But the reality is that for those left behind, there probably is usually nothing they could have done. Talk him out of it today, and he may do it in three weeks. Obviously, if you can talk someone out of it, and especially if you can get them to genuine help, do so. But “after the fact” there is no good in second-guessing, though I can see the temptation.

    Peter, yes, people who have homeschooled in the past might be able to help too. I’m trying to get eight or ten families, and I already have a few within my family and church, but would like it to be broader than that. (The e-mail that I feel OK putting on this blog–I set it up for World–is extra dot extra at juno dot com. Anyone who has a “different” one, the one you have is better, but this is the basic one I don’t mind listing.)

    6 Arrrow, I do understand about “too much going on” though my internet wasn’t working last night and I was unable to say so.

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  24. I agree that if someone’s determined to take their own life, they will. But it’s a very common response (and an agonizing one) for those left behind to struggle with the thought that “maybe” there was something more than could have been said or done … 😦 It’s just a very devastating way to lose a loved one — and it naturally leaves behind very complex and difficult responses that take a while to move beyond.

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  27. I did feel my friend was determined to end her life, or I would have felt more guilt.

    She was divorced and had been married to a Jekyll and Hyde type husband who msy have had a drinking problem. Also, she could get pregnant, but had an incompetent cervix which would not get her to full term even with hospital stay and being sewn up. I think the final straw came when she prematurely delivered twins who died in her arms. She had a twin brother herself. I had gone through grammar school, high school, Georgia Southern, and transferred to Georgia State with herand followed her into an accounting major at State. She always had more issues than I had. We were close, but I never felt she was my best friend. She had been involved with some drugs at Georgia Southern. None of my best friends ever did that.

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  29. For those who work with abused children (or perhaps those who dealt with childhood sexual abuse themselves; I can’t speak to whether this would be helpful–I’ve only read the first part so far, but can’t help but think of all the photos of teens in foster care, nearly all of them heavily overweight, and I knew when I saw the photos why): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-ellen-stevens/the-adverse-childhood-exp_1_b_1943647.html

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  31. Hey, I “liked” my own post because someone asked if it was possible, so I checked . . . but realized belatedly that you cannot “unlike.” 🙂 During the days I was on Facebook, a time or two I accidentally “liked” the wrong post, and I was able to undo it.

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  32. Drugs would probably have been to self-medicate. I’ve only been so depressed once that suicide made “sense,” but not for me. Surely, parents understand that killing themselves put their children at risk for suicide as well. But, I guess if you’re that depressed, you no longer can see outside your own pain to consider the pain you’ll inflict on those you love.

    Other than the people who kill themselves to get back at those they love. 😦

    Poignant for Williams–his final Instagram was a photo of him and his daughter as a small child. It’s hard to look at that photo and think what that apparently loving father has just done to her. He shredded her heart.

    Anne Lamott, has taken to her soap box, correctly, to remind us that we need to love one another. It’s hard to love someone in the depths of despair, but reminders that you are valued by God and by others just because of you, could help. Our society increasingly taunts and reminds us we’re losers if we’re not X, Y, and Z. Williams’ death reminds us financial and physical success has nothing to do with the soul.

    It’s hard to look at all the grieving on FB and not think, 24 hours ago, knowing he was so loved might have made a difference.

    Or maybe not.

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  33. Cheryl,

    Thanks for the link. I read the whole thing. It makes a lot of sense. I plan on looking at the study further.

    It’s also scary when you think of the number of people/victims this possibly effects. Obesity is sadly not the only epidemic going on here. There’s another one, but unless it’s priests doing it, the press isn’t all that interested. Very sad.

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  35. Cheryl, that is a great article. I have heard people say that before, that they hid behind the weight. That is the premise of the whole “it’s not what you’re eating; it’s what’s eating you” weight loss plan.

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  37. The sad thing about the article (I read it all after posting the link) is that it basically gives no hope. It’s like people are “fated” to suffer ill health if their childhood was crummy, and the only thing we can do is try to keep people from abusing their children. Well, keeping people from abusing is a great goal, but hardly an achieveable one–especially if we don’t want a police state with state-approved social workers installing cameras or something like that. In a society where it’s acceptable to kill babies you don’t want and where even “wanted” children are considered a liability, it’s harder still to avoid abuse.

    But once a person has suffered abuse, he is not without hope. There is hope in Christ for anyone. We are made in the image of God, the perfect Parent. There is hope in Him. I wanted to say something along that line in the comments on that article, but comments were closed.

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  38. Kevin, all you do is click on the word “Like” and it should turn gold and say “Liked by you”.
    At least, that’s what happens here.
    I’m gonna see if i can like myself.
    😉

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  43. “But once a person has suffered abuse, he is not without hope. There is hope in Christ for anyone. We are made in the image of God, the perfect Parent. There is hope in Him. I wanted to say something along that line in the comments on that article, but comments were closed.”

    Cheryl, I think you know me well enough not to take offense at what I am about to say, but I am glad you were unable to post that. It would not have been taken in the spirit I am sure you meant it.

    My abuser had only started grooming me to be abused. My parents caught on and I was removed from the situation. AS a result I lost family. I got something few get. I confronted him later in life and he admitted it to me.

    There is a fear and hurt so deep that no matter how strong your belief in God is or how wonderful the rest of your life is…it doesn’t go away.

    That is what being married has given me. I hugged Idaho Mike when he dropped BG and me off at the Boise airport. I hugged AJ and Linda’s husband when we all met. I am a married woman not a single woman. I have security in thinking that my hugs will not be misinterpreted. If I had been single I would have had my guard up.

    Those who have been abused, no matter what is told to them always deep down somehow think they caused it. Logically they know they didn’t, but the body thinks it did. I can’t explain it any better than that. There is more I could say but won’t.

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  44. Kim, I wouldn’t have posted that. I said “something like that.” My point is that I would have said something about hope being available in Christ; I didn’t think through what I posted here, but I would have thought carefully before posting there. To leave people with the idea that there is no hope for you is to leave them in suicidal despair. And that means the abuser has taken away even more. Mumsee and others of us who have been able to help rejected children wish to give them their chance of hope. Without that, life has nothing.

    Mumsee, I had a fellow student when I was growing up who was quite overweight. That was in a day when very few children were overweight. My class of 80 had one boy and one girl who were overweight. The boy was a friend of mine, one of my few friends in childhood, and I was even in touch with him for a few years in my twenties. I think he was fairly healthy emotionally. But the girl . . . I remember in eighth grade she’d come to school with filthy hair. At the age when young teens wash their hair every day or two, she’d go a month, and it would get greasier and greasier and then one day it would be clean. Looking back, I recognize that she was almost certainly molested, and was saying “Keep away” in every way she could.

    When I was in Nashville preparing for foster care, I went through an adoption website and was shocked to find that every single one of the teenagers was overweight, probably obese by medical standards. Not most, all. I wasn’t surprised to find that some of them were, but I was shocked to find that every single one was. It was like a visual clue of their pain. (I mean, some kids, like those in my family, can’t gain weight no matter what they do. So how can you have 50-100 children and 100% of them seriously overweight?)

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  45. Cheryl,

    As an adult, and someone well aware of, and truly thankful for this principle…

    “But once a person has suffered abuse, he is not without hope. There is hope in Christ for anyone. We are made in the image of God, the perfect Parent. There is hope in Him.”

    and since we’re speaking frankly………

    I have to say that is little consolation to a child suffering thru it. Without actions from someone who loves you, and demonstrates Christ’s love, forgiveness, and grace it sounds like empty platitudes. Especially if your abuser is in some way related to the church. Even as an adult it took much effort, and a whole lot of faith to believe. Due to my own weakness, I still struggle with the concept.

    To those who understand this truth the relief, safety, and hope it provides is a blessing and a refuge. To those who don’t, especially the young, it offers little.

    It’s why I’m so thankful for folks like Mumsee and Mike. They demonstrate, love, provide safety, and show them the truth of your statement. We need a million more like them. Sadly, many will never know such a blessing. My heart breaks for them.

    And I can tell you from first hand experience, the longer you go without hope, the more jaded you become. The addictions and destructive behavior piles up, and you become harder to reach as well. It’s a vicious cycle. Add in other issues and it can be disastrous, mentally and physically.

    I know the truth of Christ, who He is, what He does, and His saving grace. But I still struggle with consequences of abuse and have to remind myself daily that I matter, to Christ, and even to those who love me. Too often, I don’t matter to me, and that’s when it’s hardest. I had always hoped it would go away, but it hasn’t. Maybe someday. 🙂

    Thank you again for the link, and the conversation. It’s good to talk about it sometimes, and maybe that’s the key. Again, thank you sister.

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  47. I’ve jumped around and read several of the resources at the ACE website. I can’t help but feel some of what’s in play is the old “I’m a product of my environment” thing that I detest so much. It seems like a cop out. Just because I had it rough and some treated me poorly doesn’t mean I have an excuse for my own bad behavior and choices. That bothers me.

    And I took the ACE test.

    4 and above huh…….. 😯

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  48. I don’t really get the suicide thing either. It’s a concept that escapes me. I have a very strong sense of self preservation that has never allowed such thoughts in. There’ve been times when I’ve thought about harming others, but never myself. Why punish yourself for the unconscionable actions of others? It makes no sense to me.

    Plus, I personally consider it an act of cowardice. Your dead, but the devastation you leave behind for those who love you by doing it is the ultimate act of selfishness to me. I don’t mean to sound unsympathetic to someone so lost as to contemplate it, but I just don’t get it.

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  49. AJ, I agree with everything you have said, so I’m not sure where the dispute is. The article wasn’t written to children, but to adults. And telling anyone “You will experience these bad things in addition to what you have already suffered” without giving any hope is a message of doom.

    I have not done 10% of what Mike and Mumsee have, but I lived in the inner city in Chicago on purpose for seven or eight years, with an open-door policy for neighborhood children, and for the first couple of years they came daily. I took in foster kids, would have done more except the agency rarely called me in the two or three years I was approved as a foster mom. (They loved me as a foster mom, said I bonded with the children extremely well, etc. They just had more foster parents than they could reasonably keep “busy,” and ultimately it made no sense at all to continue to keep that bedroom open–meaning I didn’t get rental income and I lived alone–and to keep up on the many hours a year of required training, if in fact they had enough married couples to handle the foster care need. I became a foster parent under the mistaken understanding they needed foster parents. They didn’t–they only needed more foster parents of teenagers, and that was something I simply could not do. But I was willing to do it longer.)

    I once was watching some TV movie where some kid was sad at camp, and her counselor told her, “You need to learn to love yourself.” I’m pretty sure I yelled at the TV. That was completely meaningless psychobabble. What she really needed to tell the girl was not “Love yourself” but “I love you.”

    As I said to Kim in an e-mail a little while ago, we have pain in a fallen world. I get that. I was never molested, but I have had my own “share” of pain. But telling people “You are doomed to have this and that happen to you” without giving any hope is its own abuse. Christ said, “Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (That’s King James since that’s what I learned it in.) We can see that as mere religious jargon, or we can see that as the only hope any of us has.

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  50. Not to change the subject… have any of you done the NOOMA series of Bible studies or heard anything about them? I’m looking at them for my ladies’ Bible study this fall.

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  51. Nope, haven’t seen or heard of the NOOMA series, that I know of.

    Re that link I posted: I did think it was interesting that “death of a parent” wasn’t even listed as a childhood trauma. I’m sure it is less of a trauma than divorce, but not without trauma and sorrow nevertheless.

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  52. Interesting little poster at the youth challenge. We have copies of it:
    Everything you do is based on the choices you make.
    It’s not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather,an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make. Period.

    We use it to explain that each day is new and their choices are theirs. What has happened to them in the past is there, but it does not decide for them how they will behave. And if they are believers, they are strengthened by the Creator even more to make right decisions. As they say at the Academy: choose the hard right over the easy wrong.

    But we have to help them find the keys to set them free. When they arrive, they are locked in. Counselors have told them they are victims, doctors have medicated them, schools have allowed them to proceed with no effort. We have to teach them that what was done to them does not define them. It takes a long time and I doubt if it is ever totally understood this side of Heaven. But carrying other folks baggage has got to be tiresome.

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  54. Cheryl @ 6:26 I did think it was interesting that “death of a parent” wasn’t even listed as a childhood trauma. I’m sure it is less of a trauma than divorce, but not without trauma and sorrow nevertheless.

    It is something that stays with you a long time. And I would say it is more traumatic than divorce in the long run. A child of divorce still has both parents. I only had my father.

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  55. I noticed I had to go and reset my settings for WordPress after I got an email telling me someone liked my comment. Glad it was easy to do. But then, I shouldn’t have to worry about too many likes.

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  59. Cheryl,

    No disagreement at all. 🙂

    And you are correct, we need to hear the words too. The actions just matter more to me personally, and my answer reflected that. But the words are important too, as is using them for teaching them why these things are true/false. I’ve always learned better by watching examples and doing something than just in hearing info. That was true as a kid, and even today. Just a personal preference thing.

    And thank you. This time for what you personally did to help those you could. That’s the kind of example I’m talking about. Kids need to see that, and so do adult survivors like me. It gives me hope for the future of those kids, as do Mumsee and Mike. Sincerely, thank you.

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  60. Yeah I was kind of surprised by that too. Most of the kids I know who went thru the death of a parent would call it one of the most traumatic experiences of their lives. Shocked it wasn’t mentioned.

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  62. AJ, yeah, definitely the actions matter more. My point was more that teaching self-love as a coping mechanism is weak and ineffective. Much more powerful is loving the person and then helping the person learn to love others. The one who is safe in love can love another.

    I didn’t experience divorce of a parent and can’t really speak to that conclusively–but it seems to me that it is abandonment whereas death may feel like it, but isn’t. Partly it would depend on the age of the child. A three-year-old who loses a parent simply knows loss, whereas a twelve-year-old can understand “Dad died” or “Dad chose to leave us.” Divorce also sets a child up for marital problems.

    One reason death of a parent is so traumatic is it rarely occurs in a vacuum. With it may come the horror of the death (murder, suicide, collision with a drunk driver), the difficulty of a lingering illness which also takes away some of the caregiving of the other parent who has to care for a sick spouse, the grief and numbness of the spouse left behind, a sense of guilt that the child is somehow to blame, or any number of other things. A friend of mine lost her father to ALS (Lou Gerhig’s) when she was about twelve after watching his slow deterioration, and having to help care for him herself as a child. It is still a big part of her, thirty years later. When I meet someone who lost a parent in childhood or youth, instantly I feel that she and I “know” something the rest of the world doesn’t know. Even though I was almost 17, there still was a sense that everything was different after that. In college I knew someone who still had both parents, all four grandparents, and a great-grandparent, and it was weird to think she had seven times as many ancestors still living as I did, and that that was normal to her. In Nashville I knew someone who was a great-grandfather and his mother was still alive. I can’t wrap my arms around stuff like that.

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  63. Interesting comments that I’ll have to catch up on tomorrow. But I’m popping in to tell you all some sad news.

    There was a lady who was a regular with us at WMB, who changed her screen name a couple times. One time she was Nana, I think, but her last screen name was Louise.

    Louise has lost her battle with cancer. Her son posted on Facebook…

    “RIP Lise Frostad Robohn, 1945-2014

    “Lise Frostad Robohn went home to be with the Lord on Sunday evening, 8/10/2014.

    “She fought hard against lung cancer over the course of almost four years. She was a fighter in life in many other ways as well. She can now truly rest.

    “Love you, Mom. Thank you for everything.

    “Isaiah 1:18

    “ ‘Come now, let us reason
    together, says the Lord:
    though your sins are like scarlet,
    they shall be as white as snow;
    though they are red like crimson,
    they shall become like wool.’ “

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  64. This is the second time I’ve had to pass on news of the death (both from cancer) of a WMB regular. Remember VS? I honor her memory & friendship by keeping her beloved grandchildren in my prayers.

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  67. I don’t think I remember VS, but I do remember Louise — I’m so sorry to hear that news but, as mumsee said, we rejoice, too. Not infrequently I think of the Christian friends I’ve known who are passed on while we’re singing in church, “seeing” them all standing with us and singing God’s praises in heaven. 🙂

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