Good Morning!
Today’s header photo is from Cheryl.
On this day in 1787, at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, debate began on the first draft of the U.S. Constitution.
In 1890 Cy Young achieved his first major league victory.
In 1914 Austria-Hungary declared war against Russia. Serbia declared war against Germany.
In 1945 the American B-29 bomber, known as the Enola Gay, dropped the first atomic bomb on an inhabited area. The bomb named “Little Boy” was dropped over the center of Hiroshima, Japan. An estimated 140,000 people were killed.
And in 1969 the first fair ball to be hit completely out of Dodger Stadium occurred. Willie “Pops” Stargell, of the Pittsburgh Pirates, hit the ball 506 feet from home plate.
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Quote of the Day
“Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.”
Alfred Lord Tennyson
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Today is Lucy’s birthday. 🙂
And this one is because I like it.
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Wandering Views 
Morning all.
Well, if you read the rest of yesterday’s thread you know that our bridge to the outside world has fallen. This bridge was the Kingston (my maiden name) bridge five miles away. It is our only way to get in and out of here other than by air. I, of course, stocked up with some more groceries. No more petrol, so I will be walking.
Prayers appreciated. It could take weeks, months, or years, for the bridge to be rebuilt, even though the replacement parts are sitting next to the bridge. It has needed replacing for quite a while. Almost a relief, as every time we crossed it we wondered if it would fall. Took a tanker of fuel to bring it down.
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So sorry to hear that, Jo. 😦
Definitely a time for prayer about God’s bridge building plans.
Church goes back to its regular Wed. schedule after the break for July. We have WMU and Prayer/Bible study group. I have missed Wed. at church.
Co-worker has a new puppy dog she is bringing into work. I have not seen the doggie yet since I have been at home for son’s visit. I am looking forward to meeting Max. Co-worker and her husband lost all three of their dogs this past year to illness so this new one will lift their spirits.
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Jo has a bridge named after her 🙂
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This isn’t so much a QoD because there are no “right” answers, but rather a discussion topic relating to prayer. When you read someone else’s written prayer, are you praying? No offense to Janice (or those of you who appreciate her prayers), but I don’t like to read prayers written by someone else. I think maybe the reason is because they are not my words and may not even be my sentiments, which I wouldn’t know until after I read them. I simply don’t see the point in reading a prayer that someone else wrote. If I intend to pray, I can use my own words.
Our younger son was married in a Catholic ceremony and he asked me to read one of the prayers. He sent the text to me and I saw that it included a prayer for the dead. I told him I wouldn’t read that part (which he was fine with), but in reality, I’d already read it, so did I pray it?
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No Linda, it was the trio that was named after her.
I’ve always loved Lucy.
And I have “Over the Next Hill” on CD by John and June. It is better that way.
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I’m not praying as I read the prayer.
But after the prayer, I “Amen” if I agree. And then it becomes my prayer.
Same thing when the preacher prays. We only agree after we’ve heard it, and say “Amen”.
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Linda, I don’t take offense to what you have said at all. I do understand, and it makes good sense for some to feel that way. My background in prayer involves not knowing how to pray. As a new believer, I started by keeping little prayer journals. Later I was a member of the Presidential Prayer Team and the Baghdad Prayer Patrol and the prayer group established by Right From the Heart Ministries. All these sites and others involved written prayers. So from that respect I got into the habit of posting prayers. I also post prayers on Prison Fellowship’s site. A lot of people feel comforted reading the prayers said over their needs. So it is for those in need that I post them. I do not have any expectation that another would you my words for their prayers. But if someone is new to prayer, they may see one approach if they are curious about how to start. If someone is in anyway distracted by my posting of prayers, I do apologize. I assure you, I do not post out of arrogance, but only out of a desire to comfort those in need and to keep accountability in prayer. I have often considered that by putting my prayers “out there” that I am not doing the “prayer closet” routine with them. But I have felt led to pray in this manner.
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Oh, Janice, I love you and your involvement here and am in no way distracted by your prayers. My comments were more from the perspective that maybe something was wrong with my feelings about them. Please continue.
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Linda, I will add, my written prayers seem to tap into a deeper level of thought on the prayer need than my silent or spoken prayers reach. I guess it is an individual quirk or gift? The writting of the prayer guarantees that I give time worthy of the request. It is a sacrifice of time from me. 🙂
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Time for me to get ready for our WMU meeting where a missionary will speak.
Our family watched an old black and white Hitchcock film last night, Saboteur. It had so much humor interspersed which I was not expecting. I highly recommend it!
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Linda’s 8:38 could apply to other situations.
Like the reading of the Psalms.
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I come from a liturgical background and have often been mentioned in Janice’s prayers. The Book of Common Prayer gives you corporate prayers to be spoken together. The congregation is invited to add their own petitions. There have been times that I was so devoid of the words to pray that I turned to the BCP to read the prayers that are centuries old and have been read and prayed my millions of people. The beauty of the words soothed my soul. From there I was able to talk to God on my own.
I know that many of you here pray for BG and me. I take comfort in it. I really find comfort when I mention a prayer request and sometime later find Janice’s written prayer. I KNOW in a different way that I have been prayed for.
To answer Linda’s question, if the written or corporate prayer feels like a prayer to you at the time you are saying the prayer then it is. If it doesn’t then it is still beautiful words strung together and you can just appreciate that. How you feel about something is how you feel about it and there is no right or wrong way to feel.
I understand because I am currently wrestling with the way I currently feel about communion in my church and I may as well confess it here because I am completely grossed out by something and on the other hand I am ashamed that I feel that way. We have a man who has Down’s Syndrome. He and his mother sit on the front row so there is no way to drink from the chalice before he does. His bottom lip protrudes and is constantly shiny. One Sunday he got choked on the bread and coughed and coughed and coughed to the point it sounded like he was going to throw up. I have a weak stomach when it comes to things like that so I started gagging a little in my seat. Unless I am a chalice bearer and receive the communion wine before the congregation I have not been able to drink from the chalice since that happened. We have another man in church who had a lung transplant. He is always first to receive the wine. As I said I am wresting with this because even reading back on the words I have written I feel like pond scum for being that way.
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Linda, what Chas said about written prayers. I am not eloquent or often able to put into words just exactly what I want to say, so Janice’s written prayers have been wonderful for me. Other written prayers, written down so they can be said over and over again or by whole congregations, don’t sit well with me. I don’t seem to be able to relate, or something, to them. Some Psalms are written prayers and they connect with me and I’m able to pray them, particularly if I’m going through something similar to the writer. I think Janice’s prayers (and others’ on this blog) are so much more personal and relational and specific than a prayer out of a book. I feel there is a big difference.
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Oh, Kim. I hear you. I’m glad we have the individual little cups rather than a shared cup. I don’t think I would be able to do that, even if only “certified healthy” people drank before me. 🙂
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As Chas mentioned, the Psalms are prayers, sometimes even the title has the words “Prayer of David” or whoever wrote it. We can read the prayers of others and not be praying ourselves. Or, as Chas said, we can say “Amen” to someone else’s prayer and it becomes ours. The Lord knows the heart, and it is to him we pray.
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I used to be suspect of “written” prayers years ago as a new Christian. But no more. They often give voice to the thoughts and feelings I can’t (for whatever reason) find or give voice to.
I’d say that Jo “had” a bridge that was named for her. No more. 😦 That sounds like a pretty big deal in your part of the world, Jo — there’s no other way out of there? Glad the driver was OK.
I’ve been to retreats where they use the chalice that is passed around, but those groups were typically very small and it didn’t seem to bother me at the time in that setting. But I’m glad now that we also use the individual cups for the wine at our church. We celebrate the Lord’s Supper every Sunday which I also find to be a highlight of weekly worship.
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I remember one option we were given at the retreats (if it bothered us to drink from the shared cup) was to dip our piece of bread into the wine (although they used grape juice in that setting).
Of course, then you wind up with crumbs, which would be another issue for some, but in a very small group it was “ok.” For a full church congregation, it all becomes more problematic — and, I agree, it would somewhat bother me to drink from a shared cup with a whole LOT of people.
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I didn’t know that anyone drank from a common cup any more.
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Public service – we got this e-mail from our security officer this morning (in other words, it isn’t a hoax):
Early this morning, a major data breach was announced. This breach, effecting many web sites and user accounts throughout the internet, was perpetrated by a gang of Russian cyber-thieves. They have supposedly amassed the passwords of over 1 billion accounts throughout the Internet.
While details on specific sites have not been released, and at the risk of sounding alarmist, I believe it would be best to err on the side of caution.
Therefore, I am recommending that you change the passwords for your most sensitive sites (banking, brokerage, health care) as soon as possible.
There is more info on this here: http://www.cnet.com/news/hackers-nab-more-than-1b-passwords-in-colossal-data-breach-says-security-firm/
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I very much appreciate a liturgy and written prayers. I will read them and add my ‘amen’ or additional petitions as I read, generally. Sometimes the written prayers will give me more insight into what to prayer or another way to pray. I think it can be quite helpful. I do not believe just reading any prayer is actually praying it.
Kim, if you think that way, you can believe there are several more who think the same thing. I would not like that. We may be way too fussy about germs, but it is what our society does today. I would urge the church to rethink their stand on this.
One of our daughter’s churches does the cup with dipping a wafer. Two cups are used; one with alcohol and one with grape juice. Everyone dips according to their preference. That church also has several bottles of hand washing lotion for the people serving to use before communion.
I wish our church had that. We have a major hand shaking (with people strolling around the church) and I do get concerned about that. I turn the small cup we get away from where the fingers touched it. Even so, I know I cannot avoid the touched parts, but from setting up and serving. There is nothing wrong with plain common sense, Kim.
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Linda. I saw part of that on FoxNews this morning. It was also on Drudge. I’ve already changed my bank password. That’s the only one that matters.
A lady once said that she could do lots of damage with my Amazon, iTunes passwords, etc.
I said, “Not for long. They always send me a transaction e-mail” I take my chances with them.
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Great. Do you know how long it took me to change all the passwords after Heartbleed?
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😦 Lots of foggy days so far this August.
The “weather wisdom” in Western NC is that the number of foggy days in August tells how many snowy days we’ll have in the winter.
Looks bad.
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Re: Linda’s 11:25 & My 12:05.
The bank sent me an e-mail telling me that my password has been changed. Good practice.
I like that.
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Re written prayers: I didn’t grow up with them. But the Lord’s Prayer is a written prayer, and I really don’t see anything wrong with set prayers. A few years ago, I was asked to pray at a co-worker friend’s retirement luncheon. I wrote a prayer, but I “chickened out” about actually reading it, since I thought it would sound read if I did. But I regretted not reading it.
Sometimes when a friend e-mails me about some concern, I will e-mail a prayer back. I could say, “I’m praying for you to have peace . . .” etc., but writing it out feels more like praying with her.
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That’s it Cheryl! When Janice posts her prayers I feel like she is praying with us. Great way to phrase it.
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Same thing for rote prayers. When I bless the food each time, it’s the same prayer.
Unless some special situation. Like invocation at Lions, or a special gathering.
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Thanks everyone for your discussion yesterday on dating, touching, and preparing for marriage. You gave me meaty food for thought as my teenage son is asking me and Mrs. B. important questions.
What thoughts do you have about the boyfriend-girlfriend relationship for teenagers? Assume there is a strong commitment to no sex outside marriage. Such a relationship seems to be defined by the exclusivity of marriage (you and you alone), but without the physical intimacy and the commitment of marriage.
There will be one of two outcomes. Either you’re going to get married, which is an unlikely outcome for most high school relationships, or you’re going to break up, which will probably hurt one or both. So why get into a relationship like that before you’re ready for marriage?
(I agree with many of you that “ready for marriage” should be 20-ish rather than 30-ish, but I’m talking about 15-18 year olds here.)
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Written prayers seem to me equivalent to spoken prayers in the congregation. Quietly or silently interjecting “Yes, Lord” and capping it off with an “Amen” works for both.
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Kevin, This from the mother of a 17 year old girl. In today’s “hook up” society where sex is to put it bluntly “scratching and itch”, I would almost be relieved for my daughter to be in an old fashioned high school relationship.
Right now BG tells me that isn’t isn’t going out with anyone. If she goes anywhere it is with a group or with the girls. She said boys are only interested in one thing and they expect it sooner rather than later. She has made up her mind that she is NOT taking any risks of getting pregnant until her 20’s.
Currently she is working so many hours that she doesn’t have time to date AND sleep all she wants to.
As you can imagine, this is all a huge relief to her mother. I am by no means burying my head in the sand over this issue, but it is a far cry from where I once thought we were headed.
Somewhere along the line she has listened to her mother saying “Boy’s have cooties ’til YOU”RE 30”
She asked her gay “uncle” why boy’s were so stupid? He told her “Honey, I’ve been trying to figure that out for years!”
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At first glance on my Smartphone, the header photo looks like birds on a teeter totter. Nice photo from Cheryl, again. Great camera. My phone is full of photos now so I can’t take more until I dump some.
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Kevin, I don’t think that exclusive relationships make sense until you’re ready for marriage or nearly ready. If you’d be open to marrying right out of high school, then date in high school. If you are committed to get through grad school before you marry, then for goodness sake don’t get into serious relationships in high school and college. But if you want to get married at 21 or 22, then don’t avoid girls at 20.
Personally it seems to me that we are for the most part (easy for me to say) doing a horrid job of preparing young men to be deliberate about marriage. They have some nebulous thought that they may want to get married someday, and in the meantime they may date girls who seem interesting in some way, but with little thought of marriage. I think, instead, they should be led to think through, “Do I want to marry? When? What kind of wife do I need? How can I prepare to be a husband, and also to find that kind of wife?” We do all sorts of planning for career, and we’re intentional about getting the training, researching the right company, buying the right clothes, and so far. But marriage is expected just be “someday you’ll fall in love, and you’ll ‘know.'” And these days guys often want girls to make the first move.
As a woman, it wasn’t up to me to initiate, but in my years of singleness I chose a career that was marriage-friendly, I learned to cook a bit, I was deliberate about learning how to care for children, I stayed out of debt, I was discreet in my interactions with men, and so forth. Once I saw internet dating as a viable option, I thought through how I could do it honorably. Part of my decision was that I wouldn’t make the first move. I didn’t want a passive husband, so I didn’t want one I went out and contacted, either. So I wrote in my profile that I wasn’t going to make the initial contact with any man. But all of those were deliberate choices, not things that “happened.” (I’m not saying it’s wrong for a woman who is doing internet dating to make the first contact . . . but if a man expects to be head of the household, and the woman wants him to, they are getting off to the wrong start if he sits back and waits for a woman to show interest in him, and she initiates!)
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Kim, boys are only stupid when they’re around girls. I think it was Capt. John Smith concerning Priscilla who would rather face a boatload of pirates than a 97 pound woman.
A live woman is a fearsome thing. They make your legs turn to jelly, your mouth turn dry and you say silly things. Sometimes they look at you and giggle to each other.
I say this as a (adjective deleted) old man. But in my sane, contemplative moments, I think of the girls who sat at home alone because I didn’t have the courage to approach them.
I was a backward kid. Still am.
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I have been greatly blessed to read prayers that Janice has prayed for me.
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I was sitting on the porch reading my Washington Times when Kim’s quote of BG hit me. “Boys only want one thing, and sooner rather than later.” It may be that times have changed a lot or she’s familiar with the wrong crowd.
Boys still just want to be with someone of the opposite sex who can be fun to be around. The lines from a song come to me, I forget but I’m sure you are familiar with it.
“I’m not talking about millennia. And I don’t want to change your life.
But there’s a soft wind blowing, and the stars are out.
And I’d really like to see you tonight.”
Let a guy know where you stand and he’ll stand with you.
Boys and girls need to learn how to be around each other.
Being out with a girl is different from being with one of the guys.
But he isn’t always thinking about sex, regardless of what some say.
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We have done an extreme disservice to our young. We have demystified sex and it has become common place.
One of my much more liberal friends pointed that out to me several years ago when she told me she had apologized to her 20 something daughter for what the previous generationshad done.
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Re communion from a common cup, I probably have a somewhat different perspective than most here, coming from a mixed tradition growing up (Roman Catholic / United Church of Christ).
In the RC Church, the wine is not considered a *necessary* part of the Eucharist. Either specie, the bread *or* the wine, are regarded as fully *being* the Body and Blood of Christ. (And I don’t want to start a debate on transubstantiation/ consubstantiation/ symbolism ! I don’t have a dog in that fight, other than whatever one’s beliefs, taking Communion should be done with respect and reverence. 🙂 ) Hence, for the most part there was never even the option of receiving the wine. You knealt at the altar, and did not touch the bread – it was placed on your tongue with care taken lest even a crumb should fall – since it would be disrespectful to risk desecrating the Body of Christ. Rarely – ie, First Communion, Confirmation, weddings – you might receive the wine by intincture – the priest dipping the host in the chalice.
That changed in my late teens – lay people were allowed to become Eucharistic Ministers (my Mom did this for many years), you received the host and took it yourself, and there is now a common chalice that all can drink from. Nonetheless, I don’t enjoy sharing a cup with dozens of others, and since I don’t believe it’s *necessary* to do so to fully participate, I don’t do so.
My Dad’s church was quite different. The wine and bread were disributed in individual “servings” by passing a tray down the pews. They were held until the minister said the prayers, and then taken by all simultaneously. And of course, it was viewed as just being a symbolic remembrance. To me, it felt much more respectful – there was no rush of leaving your seat, go up to the front, etc. Much more orderly. When we went to his church, we followed my mom’s lead, and did not partake. (Likewise, when my Dad came to our church, he didn’t take communion)
But again, when in my late teens, this changed. Our priest at the time was a little more liberal than most, and basically said that refusing to take communion a) drew attention to ourselves and b) disrespected their tradition. (Basically, when not in Rome, do as the non-Romans do.) After that, we participated and took communion at Dad’s church. My Dad also then started taking communion when attending our church – he had always been of the belief that as a fellow Christian, (and indeed that we are all “small-c” catholic) this was the right thing to do, and didn’t imply that he believed in the “true presence”. Since our church was fairly large and there are many from outside the parish on special occasions and holidays, there was never any issue with a priest knowing he was not RC and refusing.
Totalling it all up over my life, this means I probably took the communion wine more times in my Dad’s church than I have in my own.
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Chas, I’ve always liked that song, but I thought the lyrics were:
“I’m not talking about movin’ in.
And I don’t want to change your life.
But there’s a warm wind blowing the stars around.
And I’d really like to see you tonight.”
People hear songs differently, don’t they? 🙂
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Your words make sense.
I haven’t listened closely, not my favorite genre. Is it a Beetles song?
If Johnny Cash or Marty Robbins were singing, I might have noticed more.
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It was “movin’ in”. Song was from around the mid 1970s, played a LOT on the pop/rock stations back in the day. .
http://www.metrolyrics.com/id-really-love-to-see-you-tonight-lyrics-england-dan-john-ford-coley.html
But the culture has gone through a sea change since then. I’m guessing there’s not much that young kids today don’t know about. Sex in many (if not most) secular circles now is considered a regular part of dating.
I remember talking to a girlfriend a few years ago (a bit younger than me but we generally came from around the same time period) who told me abstinence was never stressed at all by her parents (it was by mine).
She said when she started dating it “never occurred” to her that sex would NOT be part of the evening. It was as routine for her as the movie was. She later said she simply never thought much about sex as being out of the ordinary realm of normal activity for teens or 20-somethings. I suspect that’s even more the case with many of today’s young people. But maybe I’m wrong. And I’m sure it depends a lot of family and upbringing. But I think that the secular culture’s message certainly is that sex is not really that big of a deal.
OK, subject change: Communion for us in our tradition (presby) is much more than just a ‘memorial.’ It is a means of grace provided by God for our sanctification. Our pastor has said (more than once) that in many ways it’s the closest we’ll come to Christ Himself during the worship service.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6nURYc5gsc
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Just watched “Saboteur,” and thought it was pretty good. We own it; my husband had seen it and I hadn’t.
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I never knew the exact words to that song. I liked Chas’ version better. 🙂
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I couldn’t open Donna’s link.
It’s OK.
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Good evening Jo.
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Evening, Chas. Just hanging out knowing that Aj is busily getting ready to post.
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