I’ve been feeling a little under the weather yesterday and today, and I’m behind on the news. So this will be an open thread. Post whatever you’d like.
Ijust read in The Washington Times that the first presidential proclamation was by George Washington in 1789 when he proclaimed a day of Thanksgiving.
Amazing! Thanksgiving was our first presidential proclamation.
That may be the reason we have been so blessed.
It may be that God is taking his blessing away.
That could be at least part of our problem.
Good talk by Robert Godfrey (who notes that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans care about advancing the cause of Christ). The talk touches on a number of topics we Christians face living in a “post-christian” nation and world.
Another shooting this morning, this one at a Maryland mall.
Continuing with Chas’ thought about God providing or withholding his blessing on nations: Are all these rogue mass killings simply another part of the downward moral spiral we’re seeing all around us?
This essay expresses some of what my young friend keeps saying. Can anyone more knowledgeable than me on this subject weigh in? Or does this make a good point after all?
Karen, lines like this from that article are very typical of the mentality your young friend embraces: “Pro-life supporters and activists spend incredibly large sums to take away that decision, but do not provide the equivalent practical support women need to have a baby.”
It reminds me of the complaints that Mary Magdalene, in pouring the expensive oil on Jesus, could have instead sold it and used the money to help the poor.
These pro-choicers will complain about any amount of money being spent on causes they don’t agree with. The pro-life marchers are putting a face on the movement to preserve the lives of innocent children whose faces we do not yet see. Furthermore, what the pro-aborts don’t know (or don’t want to acknowledge) is that there are many people who are indeed giving practical support to women in crisis pregnancies. But the people who are on the front lines providing financial, practical and spiritual support are not broadcasting their good deeds, for reasons only a Bible-believing Christian would understand.
I would ask your friend how she knows the second half of the statement I quoted from the article is true. Would it be possible that there are people providing support and she might not know about it? If you don’t live side by side with people who are living this out, how would you know whether the mantra, “But they don’t support the woman, or the baby after is born” is true or false?
Karen, I don’t think the essay makes a good point at all. It’s the same, tired statements they always use to steer the conversation away from the horror of abortion.
I don’t believe that article makes a good case. For starters, the author would have done well to gather data on how much is actually spent by pro-life groups on pre- and post-natal care, although it would have been a complicated task. I have worked in crisis pregnancy centers in two different cities. In both locations, much of the cost of pre-natal care was provided for those women who had the need. Additionally, many goods were provided to women who came to the centers–including clothes, diapers, cribs, even things like cleaning supplies or rides to some location or another. This is entirely anecdotal, of course, but I know what I observed was far from unique; and that’s only as it regards pregnancy centers. Individual churches frequently make similar provisions, though to a lesser degree mainly because their aid isn’t geared *specifically* to pregnant women or new mothers. It’s hard to imagine a city or town in this country where a woman in true need would be unable to find assistance from a church or pro-life organization.
The author also does us the *favor* of dictating pro-lifers’ priorities. The law of the land is that it is permissible to terminate the life of unborn human people. An argument can certainly be made that that is ground zero. It’s fine, I think, if one wants to say ‘the human heart’ is where the real battle is, but that’s really more of an academic concern, because money *is* being spent, and work *is* being done to inform women and all citizens of the realities and dangers and fallout and miseries of abortion. So it’s not as though that base isn’t covered.
Good post, 6 Arrows. I got pulled away about a half-second before I hit ‘Post,’ then returned later to hit Post without reading anything posted in the interim; hence, some of my repetition of what you mentioned that I otherwise would have trimmed out. Anyway,
The article’s author writes:
Even if those who participate in the March for Life were able to successfully revoke the legality of abortion in the US, or substantially limit the time in which women can obtain an abortion, statistics indicate that it wouldn’t necessarily protect the unborn. The Guttmacher Institute’s statistics show that abortion rates are higher in countries where it is illegal and procedures are often unsafe.
That’s a preposterous inference–to allege there would have been *MORE* than 50 million abortions over the last 50 years if abortion had not been legal. That’s absolutely absurd. If for no other reason, throw the whole article out for that piece of fantastic hypothesizing.
From Karen’s first paragraph:
“Pro-life supporters and activists spend incredibly large sums to take away that decision, but do not provide the equivalent practical support women need to have a baby.”
Our church has an Open Arms ministry designed just for those situations. They have to endure a Christian message, and Christian love. But they get support.
Whenever I have mentioned that there are many ministries & individuals who do indeed help out the moms in these ways, her general response is that it’s not good enough, that not enough pro-lifers are helping in these ways. 😦
What is especially distressing to me about her attitude being this way is that she claims to be a strong Christian. I don’t get how she can not only support abortion, but also put down pro-lifers the way she does.
Thanks, Solar. Yours too. You’re right that churches and crisis pregnancy centers are providing a lot of the material support for women and children in these situations. You and Chas both give good examples.
I think about prayer support, too, that churches and workers at CPCs provide. Can we truly fathom the depth of God’s words when He says, “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much”? No, it doesn’t make diapers magically appear every week at the home of a single mom with an infant. But those prayers are doing something far beyond our limited human comprehension.
God is working through His people. We’re His workmanship, after all (Ephesians 2:10), created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which He foreordained. Anyone who is not in Christ is not going to understand how our being saved by the grace of God can and does lead to providing the very assistance they claim we’re not giving. We love (and love is an action, not an emotion) because He first loved us.
It’s an issue of the heart. They are blind to the truth, and need a regenerate heart. Without that, they will not understand.
I wonder, Karen O, what would be “good enough” and how she would measure it? Not sure where she lives, but I can guarantee any pregnant woman or new mom in need who your friend may know is no more than ~25 miles away from a group that would offer support.
I agree it’s bewildering that anyone–Christian or not–could favor the right to abortion, but between our own ability to deceive ourselves, and the deceptiveness of the abortion megamob, there can be a lot to overcome.
Here I think is the key word in your 8:47 post, Karen: “What is especially distressing to me about her attitude being this way is that she claims to be a strong Christian.”
Claims mean nothing. “You will know them by their fruit.”
The word “Christian” is thrown around much too casually these days, IMO. Has she defined what “Christian” means to her, and “strong Christian” in particular?
I chose to use the word “claims” rather than “is” because I’ve been having my own doubts about if she really is saved. She says she accepted Jesus as a young girl, & I know that she was raised in a Christian home.
I know that one can have very messed up theology but still be a “real” Christian. But when someone’s worldview & opinions veer closer & closer to worldly thinking, even if she thinks her views have Jesus’ stamp of approval, how far off does she have to go before she is no longer a Christian?
(I realize that some of you will say that salvation cannot be lost, & therefore if someone seems to have walked away from Jesus, it means they were never saved in the first place.)
This young lady also embraces the idea that homosexuals were “born that way”, & that anyone against same-sex marriage is a hateful bigot. And these issues are just the tip of the iceberg, it seems.
She recently wrote that Concerned Women for America is “the most breath-takingly TERRIFYING misogynist hate group against women…” And she shared a “poster” on Facebook that says there are only two reasons to vote Republican – either one is “rich & heartless” or “poor & brainless”.
Well, I need to get off the blog & get to bed now, so goodnight, & thanks for your input.
Karen, she sounds much more concerned about political (Dems vs. Reps) and other earthly matters than about spiritual matters. Having opinions on worldly matters and speaking them respectfully is not wrong, of course, but if she repeatedly broad brushes everyone of a different political persuasion, using words like “hate group” and “bigots”, then I really don’t think it’s worth it to engage in discussion with her anymore on those matters, IMHO. She appears to have hardened her heart on hearing a different perspective and receiving it without using caustic words.
If I may make a suggestion, I think I would try to engage her on spiritual matters only, not as a response to her political and other statements, but for the sake of discussing the Word itself. If she is a “strong Christian”, as she says, it’s natural to want to discuss Biblical matters, and not only that, but more importantly, to get into the Word itself.
If this is someone with some proximity to you in your physical world (as opposed to someone in the online world or who lives far away), perhaps you might suggest doing a Bible study together. Or if you’re not able to do that, encourage her to join a study you might know of where Biblical truth is emphasized. Ask her how her faith is being nourished, and encourage her to be in the Word. The Word does not return void, but accomplishes the purpose for which it was sent. The Word transforms; it renews our minds, so that we not be conformed to the world.
Pray for her spiritual renewal (as I suspect you are), encourage her Biblically, and ignore her political rantings in the meanwhile.
My two cents, Karen. You’re by no means obligated to take my advice. My apologies if advice was not what you wanted. I just heard your distress and wanted to weigh in.
By now shootings have become “old hat” and hardly make the news anymore, but if you heard about the one at the Columbia Mall in Maryland, you’d be interested to know that mall is right next to the office building where I work. We frequently walk over there for lunch. It is an upscale mall in an upscale neighborhood.
As for the foster care argument, babies spend very little time in foster care and are almost always adopted right away. Most children in long term foster care are older children whose parent probably never considered abortion. .
When we get into these discussions about abortion my mind always wanders over to the past slogans of : Save the Whales, Save the Rainforest, Save the Polar Bears, Save the Beach Mouse, save this animal and that animal right, left, and center.
I am guilty of posting on Facebook about an animal in a shelter that has been abondoned or needs a home. We are enraged when an animal is abused, tortured, etc, but we aren’t enraged when a Baby HUMAN is tortured????
There are people right here in the United States who can’t have children and go to foreign countries to adopt because of our laws. Change the laws! Make it easier to adopt. Promote adoption.
If you had a dog or cat that got out and got pregnant would you take it to the vet to have the puppies or kittens aborted of would you try to find homes for them? Why can’t we do the same for the Baby Humans.
Did you know there are actually people in the world who see humans as parasites? They value everything over human life.
If you can’t afford a child, Man UP or Woman UP and prevent the pregnancy. If you are doing all in your power to prevent it and you still get pregnant and you still don’t want it, let someone who desperately wants a child have a chance to give it a loving home.
6 Arrows – This is the older daughter of the family who lives upstairs. She has been part of the Hope Teams (small groups) we’ve hosted in the past. She currently does not attend church because there is no church in our area that she believes is “biblically correct enough” for her. (That basically means all the churches she has tried in our area actually believe in the traditional interpretation of the Bible in regards to homosexuality, among other matters. She has been taught – at the very liberal church she attended while in college – that those interpretations are wrong, & God makes some people homosexual.)
She does watch a service online from a church in California called Freedom Church, which I’m guessing interprets the Bible in that same liberal way.
When I first began to realize how far afield her views are, I did decide to try to keep bringing her back to what the Bible says. I wrote a couple of long, involved, carefully worded emails (in response to her emails, not unsolicited) about what the Bible teaches us about marriage, & on the abortion issue.
She never replied to those emails, & while I have quoted scripture, she writes things like, “I think God would want us to …” or similar phrases, but doesn’t (can’t) point to scripture to affirm her stances on these issues.
I realize the time has come to wash my hands of this, & stop casting my pearls before swine (which I hate to have to say). Emily has remarked that C has a “superiority complex”, & we both see how much she exaggerates in her writing.
(I recently read a comment she wrote to another of her friends, in which she claims to know “hundreds of non-heterosexual women”. Even if we took the higher percentage some hold, that 10% of people are homosexual, that would mean that she personally knows thousands of people. I don’t think so.)
Karen, it sounds like you’ve done a wonderful job of reaching out to her. Despite the fact she is hanging on to those beliefs she acquired in college, I really believe you are causing her to think, and that is a good thing. Those emails she never answered, I think, are a sign that she may be chewing on what you’ve said. It’s encouraging to me that you didn’t receive knee-jerk responses from her where she simply regurgitates those same thoughts she’s been led to believe. Silence from her may be a good thing in this case.
I think it’s beautiful, the heart you have for the straying and/or lost, Karen. You’ve planted some seeds. How God works in her life from here remains to be seen.
Thank you, 6 Arrows. I pray for her (& her sister’s) change of heart & mind every night, when I pray for my own daughters.
Even though she didn’t answer my emails, we’ve had enough exchanges on Facebook that have led me to believe that she has hardened her heart on those matters. Not only does she seem unteachable, but she often takes lecturing tone with me.
Her last comment to me on that particular post pretty much disgusted me. Here’s part of it…
“The pro-choice crowd cares more about the woman. … They put her well being and wishes before those of a being that pretty much right up until it’s birth and even then for several months after in all fairness fits the definition of a parasite.
“I think you’ve made your point very clear that we aren’t going to agree on this issue and you do not understand or respect the idea that a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body or that sometimes abortion is the lesser of the evils on the table.”
I’ve known Christians whose political views always trump what’s in the Scripture. I see it mostly on the left, but there are those who are conservative who also put political views and partisanship ahead of their faith in essence.
They love to “use” the faith when it supports their hobby-horse issues. There seems to be no understanding that God’s Word reigns and comes first — we order our views on social issues based on that, not the other way around.
Wandering Views 
I’d sum things up by just saying it’s just all rather bleak.
Or maybe that’s just me in January. 😉
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Ijust read in The Washington Times that the first presidential proclamation was by George Washington in 1789 when he proclaimed a day of Thanksgiving.
Amazing! Thanksgiving was our first presidential proclamation.
That may be the reason we have been so blessed.
It may be that God is taking his blessing away.
That could be at least part of our problem.
LikeLike
Good talk by Robert Godfrey (who notes that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans care about advancing the cause of Christ). The talk touches on a number of topics we Christians face living in a “post-christian” nation and world.
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/2014-national-conference-preview-w-robert-godfrey/
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Another shooting this morning, this one at a Maryland mall.
Continuing with Chas’ thought about God providing or withholding his blessing on nations: Are all these rogue mass killings simply another part of the downward moral spiral we’re seeing all around us?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/25/us/maryland-mall-shooting/index.html
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This essay expresses some of what my young friend keeps saying. Can anyone more knowledgeable than me on this subject weigh in? Or does this make a good point after all?
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2013/0904/Pro-life-groups-don-t-really-protect-the-unborn
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Karen, lines like this from that article are very typical of the mentality your young friend embraces: “Pro-life supporters and activists spend incredibly large sums to take away that decision, but do not provide the equivalent practical support women need to have a baby.”
It reminds me of the complaints that Mary Magdalene, in pouring the expensive oil on Jesus, could have instead sold it and used the money to help the poor.
These pro-choicers will complain about any amount of money being spent on causes they don’t agree with. The pro-life marchers are putting a face on the movement to preserve the lives of innocent children whose faces we do not yet see. Furthermore, what the pro-aborts don’t know (or don’t want to acknowledge) is that there are many people who are indeed giving practical support to women in crisis pregnancies. But the people who are on the front lines providing financial, practical and spiritual support are not broadcasting their good deeds, for reasons only a Bible-believing Christian would understand.
I would ask your friend how she knows the second half of the statement I quoted from the article is true. Would it be possible that there are people providing support and she might not know about it? If you don’t live side by side with people who are living this out, how would you know whether the mantra, “But they don’t support the woman, or the baby after is born” is true or false?
Karen, I don’t think the essay makes a good point at all. It’s the same, tired statements they always use to steer the conversation away from the horror of abortion.
That’s my opinion on those tactics.
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Karen O:
I don’t believe that article makes a good case. For starters, the author would have done well to gather data on how much is actually spent by pro-life groups on pre- and post-natal care, although it would have been a complicated task. I have worked in crisis pregnancy centers in two different cities. In both locations, much of the cost of pre-natal care was provided for those women who had the need. Additionally, many goods were provided to women who came to the centers–including clothes, diapers, cribs, even things like cleaning supplies or rides to some location or another. This is entirely anecdotal, of course, but I know what I observed was far from unique; and that’s only as it regards pregnancy centers. Individual churches frequently make similar provisions, though to a lesser degree mainly because their aid isn’t geared *specifically* to pregnant women or new mothers. It’s hard to imagine a city or town in this country where a woman in true need would be unable to find assistance from a church or pro-life organization.
The author also does us the *favor* of dictating pro-lifers’ priorities. The law of the land is that it is permissible to terminate the life of unborn human people. An argument can certainly be made that that is ground zero. It’s fine, I think, if one wants to say ‘the human heart’ is where the real battle is, but that’s really more of an academic concern, because money *is* being spent, and work *is* being done to inform women and all citizens of the realities and dangers and fallout and miseries of abortion. So it’s not as though that base isn’t covered.
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Good post, 6 Arrows. I got pulled away about a half-second before I hit ‘Post,’ then returned later to hit Post without reading anything posted in the interim; hence, some of my repetition of what you mentioned that I otherwise would have trimmed out. Anyway,
The article’s author writes:
Even if those who participate in the March for Life were able to successfully revoke the legality of abortion in the US, or substantially limit the time in which women can obtain an abortion, statistics indicate that it wouldn’t necessarily protect the unborn. The Guttmacher Institute’s statistics show that abortion rates are higher in countries where it is illegal and procedures are often unsafe.
That’s a preposterous inference–to allege there would have been *MORE* than 50 million abortions over the last 50 years if abortion had not been legal. That’s absolutely absurd. If for no other reason, throw the whole article out for that piece of fantastic hypothesizing.
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From Karen’s first paragraph:
“Pro-life supporters and activists spend incredibly large sums to take away that decision, but do not provide the equivalent practical support women need to have a baby.”
Our church has an Open Arms ministry designed just for those situations. They have to endure a Christian message, and Christian love. But they get support.
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Whenever I have mentioned that there are many ministries & individuals who do indeed help out the moms in these ways, her general response is that it’s not good enough, that not enough pro-lifers are helping in these ways. 😦
What is especially distressing to me about her attitude being this way is that she claims to be a strong Christian. I don’t get how she can not only support abortion, but also put down pro-lifers the way she does.
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Thanks, Solar. Yours too. You’re right that churches and crisis pregnancy centers are providing a lot of the material support for women and children in these situations. You and Chas both give good examples.
I think about prayer support, too, that churches and workers at CPCs provide. Can we truly fathom the depth of God’s words when He says, “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much”? No, it doesn’t make diapers magically appear every week at the home of a single mom with an infant. But those prayers are doing something far beyond our limited human comprehension.
God is working through His people. We’re His workmanship, after all (Ephesians 2:10), created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which He foreordained. Anyone who is not in Christ is not going to understand how our being saved by the grace of God can and does lead to providing the very assistance they claim we’re not giving. We love (and love is an action, not an emotion) because He first loved us.
It’s an issue of the heart. They are blind to the truth, and need a regenerate heart. Without that, they will not understand.
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I wonder, Karen O, what would be “good enough” and how she would measure it? Not sure where she lives, but I can guarantee any pregnant woman or new mom in need who your friend may know is no more than ~25 miles away from a group that would offer support.
I agree it’s bewildering that anyone–Christian or not–could favor the right to abortion, but between our own ability to deceive ourselves, and the deceptiveness of the abortion megamob, there can be a lot to overcome.
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Here I think is the key word in your 8:47 post, Karen: “What is especially distressing to me about her attitude being this way is that she claims to be a strong Christian.”
Claims mean nothing. “You will know them by their fruit.”
The word “Christian” is thrown around much too casually these days, IMO. Has she defined what “Christian” means to her, and “strong Christian” in particular?
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I chose to use the word “claims” rather than “is” because I’ve been having my own doubts about if she really is saved. She says she accepted Jesus as a young girl, & I know that she was raised in a Christian home.
I know that one can have very messed up theology but still be a “real” Christian. But when someone’s worldview & opinions veer closer & closer to worldly thinking, even if she thinks her views have Jesus’ stamp of approval, how far off does she have to go before she is no longer a Christian?
(I realize that some of you will say that salvation cannot be lost, & therefore if someone seems to have walked away from Jesus, it means they were never saved in the first place.)
This young lady also embraces the idea that homosexuals were “born that way”, & that anyone against same-sex marriage is a hateful bigot. And these issues are just the tip of the iceberg, it seems.
She recently wrote that Concerned Women for America is “the most breath-takingly TERRIFYING misogynist hate group against women…” And she shared a “poster” on Facebook that says there are only two reasons to vote Republican – either one is “rich & heartless” or “poor & brainless”.
Well, I need to get off the blog & get to bed now, so goodnight, & thanks for your input.
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Karen, she sounds much more concerned about political (Dems vs. Reps) and other earthly matters than about spiritual matters. Having opinions on worldly matters and speaking them respectfully is not wrong, of course, but if she repeatedly broad brushes everyone of a different political persuasion, using words like “hate group” and “bigots”, then I really don’t think it’s worth it to engage in discussion with her anymore on those matters, IMHO. She appears to have hardened her heart on hearing a different perspective and receiving it without using caustic words.
If I may make a suggestion, I think I would try to engage her on spiritual matters only, not as a response to her political and other statements, but for the sake of discussing the Word itself. If she is a “strong Christian”, as she says, it’s natural to want to discuss Biblical matters, and not only that, but more importantly, to get into the Word itself.
If this is someone with some proximity to you in your physical world (as opposed to someone in the online world or who lives far away), perhaps you might suggest doing a Bible study together. Or if you’re not able to do that, encourage her to join a study you might know of where Biblical truth is emphasized. Ask her how her faith is being nourished, and encourage her to be in the Word. The Word does not return void, but accomplishes the purpose for which it was sent. The Word transforms; it renews our minds, so that we not be conformed to the world.
Pray for her spiritual renewal (as I suspect you are), encourage her Biblically, and ignore her political rantings in the meanwhile.
My two cents, Karen. You’re by no means obligated to take my advice. My apologies if advice was not what you wanted. I just heard your distress and wanted to weigh in.
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By now shootings have become “old hat” and hardly make the news anymore, but if you heard about the one at the Columbia Mall in Maryland, you’d be interested to know that mall is right next to the office building where I work. We frequently walk over there for lunch. It is an upscale mall in an upscale neighborhood.
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As for the foster care argument, babies spend very little time in foster care and are almost always adopted right away. Most children in long term foster care are older children whose parent probably never considered abortion. .
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I worked at Coluumbia Mall. Is it still The Mall that IS Main Street?
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When we get into these discussions about abortion my mind always wanders over to the past slogans of : Save the Whales, Save the Rainforest, Save the Polar Bears, Save the Beach Mouse, save this animal and that animal right, left, and center.
I am guilty of posting on Facebook about an animal in a shelter that has been abondoned or needs a home. We are enraged when an animal is abused, tortured, etc, but we aren’t enraged when a Baby HUMAN is tortured????
There are people right here in the United States who can’t have children and go to foreign countries to adopt because of our laws. Change the laws! Make it easier to adopt. Promote adoption.
If you had a dog or cat that got out and got pregnant would you take it to the vet to have the puppies or kittens aborted of would you try to find homes for them? Why can’t we do the same for the Baby Humans.
Did you know there are actually people in the world who see humans as parasites? They value everything over human life.
If you can’t afford a child, Man UP or Woman UP and prevent the pregnancy. If you are doing all in your power to prevent it and you still get pregnant and you still don’t want it, let someone who desperately wants a child have a chance to give it a loving home.
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6 Arrows – This is the older daughter of the family who lives upstairs. She has been part of the Hope Teams (small groups) we’ve hosted in the past. She currently does not attend church because there is no church in our area that she believes is “biblically correct enough” for her. (That basically means all the churches she has tried in our area actually believe in the traditional interpretation of the Bible in regards to homosexuality, among other matters. She has been taught – at the very liberal church she attended while in college – that those interpretations are wrong, & God makes some people homosexual.)
She does watch a service online from a church in California called Freedom Church, which I’m guessing interprets the Bible in that same liberal way.
When I first began to realize how far afield her views are, I did decide to try to keep bringing her back to what the Bible says. I wrote a couple of long, involved, carefully worded emails (in response to her emails, not unsolicited) about what the Bible teaches us about marriage, & on the abortion issue.
She never replied to those emails, & while I have quoted scripture, she writes things like, “I think God would want us to …” or similar phrases, but doesn’t (can’t) point to scripture to affirm her stances on these issues.
I realize the time has come to wash my hands of this, & stop casting my pearls before swine (which I hate to have to say). Emily has remarked that C has a “superiority complex”, & we both see how much she exaggerates in her writing.
(I recently read a comment she wrote to another of her friends, in which she claims to know “hundreds of non-heterosexual women”. Even if we took the higher percentage some hold, that 10% of people are homosexual, that would mean that she personally knows thousands of people. I don’t think so.)
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Karen, it sounds like you’ve done a wonderful job of reaching out to her. Despite the fact she is hanging on to those beliefs she acquired in college, I really believe you are causing her to think, and that is a good thing. Those emails she never answered, I think, are a sign that she may be chewing on what you’ve said. It’s encouraging to me that you didn’t receive knee-jerk responses from her where she simply regurgitates those same thoughts she’s been led to believe. Silence from her may be a good thing in this case.
I think it’s beautiful, the heart you have for the straying and/or lost, Karen. You’ve planted some seeds. How God works in her life from here remains to be seen.
Thanks for your response. I will pray for C.
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Thank you, 6 Arrows. I pray for her (& her sister’s) change of heart & mind every night, when I pray for my own daughters.
Even though she didn’t answer my emails, we’ve had enough exchanges on Facebook that have led me to believe that she has hardened her heart on those matters. Not only does she seem unteachable, but she often takes lecturing tone with me.
Her last comment to me on that particular post pretty much disgusted me. Here’s part of it…
“The pro-choice crowd cares more about the woman. … They put her well being and wishes before those of a being that pretty much right up until it’s birth and even then for several months after in all fairness fits the definition of a parasite.
“I think you’ve made your point very clear that we aren’t going to agree on this issue and you do not understand or respect the idea that a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body or that sometimes abortion is the lesser of the evils on the table.”
Disgusting & disrespectful.
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kBells – I have mentioned those points to her, too. Didn’t seem to make a difference to her.
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BTW, her comment that “the pro-choice crowd cares more about the woman” means they care more than pro-lifers do about the woman, supposedly.
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I’ve known Christians whose political views always trump what’s in the Scripture. I see it mostly on the left, but there are those who are conservative who also put political views and partisanship ahead of their faith in essence.
They love to “use” the faith when it supports their hobby-horse issues. There seems to be no understanding that God’s Word reigns and comes first — we order our views on social issues based on that, not the other way around.
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