First, the PC war on the military continues. And good men who do the hard work of taking down terrorists are punished because of the PC stupidity that runs amok under the Obama admin.
“The night of Sept. 1, 2009, Echo Platoon of Navy SEAL Team 10 headed out into the Fallujah night. Their goal: concluding a five-year search for the al Qaeda killer who had been responsible for the shocking 2004 murders of four American military contractors — one of them an ex-SEAL — whose bodies were then burned, dragged through the streets and hanged from a bridge.”
“Because the man those SEALs captured — Ahmad Hashim Abd Al-Isawi, aka “the Butcher of Fallujah,” a man who lived for mayhem — somehow sustained a bloody lip on the night of his capture.
The contrast between the two instances of violence seems, like many of the details of the case, absurd.”
“Yet for this latter instance of bloodshed three SEALs were charged with serious crimes. All of them — Matthew McCabe, Jonathan Keefe and one known by the pseudonym “Sam Gonzales” — were cleared, but in “Honor and Betrayal: The Untold Story of the Navy SEALs Who Captured the ‘Butcher of Fallujah’ — and the Shameful Ordeal They Later Endured” (Da Capo Press), his follow-up to his previous Navy SEALs bestseller, “Lone Survivor,” author Patrick Robinson asks why they were court-martialed in the first place.”
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And second is this one. Once again, the Russians get it right.
“Last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law banning abortion advertising. Some members of the Duma (the Russian state assembly), are talking about going even further and banning the procedure itself. The Russian Orthodox Church, whose numbers are swelling with converts and “reverts,” is weighing in as well. One Orthodox prelate called abortion a “mutiny against God.” I couldn’t have put it better myself.
This is an amazing turn about in a country which has long been known for its tragically high abortion rate. Until recently, the average woman in Russia could expect to have seven abortions over her lifetime. Even The New York Times, no bastion of pro-life sentiment, has been compelled to acknowledge that Russia’s high abortion rate was damaging the health and fertility of Russian women. As the paper noted in a 2003 editorial, “Now the Russian government is attempting to slow the abortion rate. It is an admirable goal, given the toll that multiple abortions have taken on the health and fertility of Russia’s women.” Not to mention the toll that abortion has taken on the unborn, and on the population as a whole.”
AJ, I really miss you gathering new items for us to read and discuss. It saves me time in the morning and I feel like I somewhat know what is going on in the world. I may not always comment, but I do read it.
Now seems as good a time as any to thank you for all you do in keeping our little community together.
I have to concur with Kim, I may not agree with AJ’s take but it keeps me somewhat balanced and forces me to think.
Abortion policy in USSR/Russia has fluctuated over time. In the heady days of the Revolution, abortion was free and legal at any time. Access however was a problem. During the Stalin era, concern over the falling birth rate led to a ban on abortion. Once Stalin died, abortion once again became free and legal at any time. With the lack of any other method of reliable birth control (the pill, condoms, etc were scarce), abortion became the default option instead of a last resort. Over time abortion became an accepted part of society especially urban Russia. Under Putin, concerns over the falling birth rate have led to restrictions on abortions — only in the first 12 weeks (with exceptions), waiting periods of 2-7 days, performed only in approved facilities, etc. Access to birth control in the 1990s had already lowered abortion rates in the major cities. It appears the new regulations might be working but in the poorer Asian regions of Russia the abortion rate is still high and climbing. The most likely cause for lower rates in the last 20 years (still extremely high) is better access to birth control, wealth and education as the European side seeks to imitate western Europe.
If Putin’s concern was to lower abortion rate, he should work to have the rural and Asian areas share in the economic success of the European cities. However, I suspect his real intent is to increase the birth rate of ethnic Russians. By limiting their access to abortion, (minority groups especially Muslims have a higher birth rate) he hopes to increase the Russian birth rate. For a long term success I would approach it from the other angle, better access to birth control, wealth and education for the non-Russian groups but my guess is Putin wants to keep them poor and ignorant.
In this way Putin’s not much different than Stalin. Abortion, family size, birth control, etc is not an individual decision but something geared to the benefit of the state and its goals.
Finally, the restrictions on abortions throughout Europe never seem to occur to the pro-choice groups in the US in the same way the social programs for children are anathema to some pro-life groups. Perhaps this points to a compromise — impose European style abortion restrictions and also impose European style policies to benefit the children that are born.
France passes a millionaires tax and imposes a 50% (effectively 75% when other taxes are included) tax bracket on any income over a million Euros (1.5 million dollars). It will be interesting to see if millionaires flee the country … my guess is most millionaires already do their banking in Luxembourg or Switzerland already and this will make no difference. A side issue will be the French soccer league — the French league is already rated lower than the UK, Germany, Spain, and possibly Italy but will it decline in quality if soccer stars avoid it for more tax friendly climates.
British business interests have figured out what Henry Ford said a century ago — pay your workers enough so they can afford the product they make. A lesson US business can take; as minimum wage workers continue to rely on gov’t support to supplement their wages. In effect Walmart workers can only afford to shop at Walmart if the government supplements their wages with food stamps and free health care. Thus, taxpayers are paying people to work at Walmart while the Waltons keep the profit.
Interesting explanation on Russian abortion policies, HRW, as usual. Thanks.
I take exception, however to your comments about pro-lifers not wanting programs for children–anathema is a pretty strong word even if you did soften it with “some.”
Petty on my part, I know, but I get tired of having so many hard working, sacrificing friends lumped into casual asides as awful people. It dehumanizes them and belittles their hearts.
I don’t mean to disparage people’s individual efforts but rather the seemly contradictory attitudes towards government intervention held by some pro-life groups. On one hand they endorse the heavy use of state power to ensure the viability of a fetus but don’t endorse a less intrusive use of state power to ensure the viability of a child. Individual efforts in private charities are fine and good but endorsing state power and nine months later discouraging the use of the state seems contradictory and counter-intuitive to their stated purpose.
I know many Walmart workers who are not in any way subsidized by the government. In fact, I know at least a couple who specifically went to work at Walmart to avoid being subsidized by the government and/or having no healthcare.
I am not sure why we think everyone who works every job now needs a livable wage. I never had that when I worked as a young adult; nor did my children. Nor did we or they need that. Many of the workers at many of these types of jobs are getting a foot in the door of the working world, earning spending money or school tuition and not the only income in their family. Many choose these jobs to have flexible hours or for hours that match another job or school needs.
I have no problem with anyone wanting more pay. I also believe Christians have the mandate of God to pay workers what they are worth and to be generous. We will, after all, stand before Him one day. The whole livable wage thing, though, is disingenuous, IMO.
Another thing to consider is that many states will put anyone through a couple of years of schooling or training to be able to get a job beyond these types of jobs. Some take advantage of that and other opportunities; some choose not to do so for various reasons. Should they all be paid the same? Should all types of work get the same wage? Should we not consider danger, hours, flexibility, comfort, ease etc.
Wages are a big subject and I think all of it should be considered. I haven’t scratched the surface, of course.
I agree with what you’re saying, Kathleena, but I know out here living wage jobs don’t seem as plentiful as they once were. Some of that is owing to the tax burden, some of that to the scarcity of good jobs. California’s minimum wage is higher, and I myself don’t pay anyone less than $10 an hour to work for me even if it’s basic hauling trash or mowing the lawn.
The problem I’m seeing is so many young people not able to move forward in a company, up the ladder. One Bible graduate worked at Starbucks for seven years because they offered health care benefits and she couldn’t find another job that suited her well. I don’t know her wage when she finally left for the mission field, but she couldn’t find a job as a single woman that would support her otherwise.
What happens to someone like her, ten years after college graduation when she still can’t find a job that will support her?
We’ve encouraged the young woman who has cleaned our house since high school (and whom we pay more than $10 an hour) to look for a “real” job now that she has her English degree.
She looked for a job at a book store–something she didn’t need a degree to do. Then a tea shop. I tried to encourage her in other areas, but they didn’t suit her. So she continues cobbling together an income with several house cleaning jobs and a nanny gig to four kids–that she finally has pushed up to $13 an hour. The sad news on that one is she’s essentially homeschooling the oldest child–she oversees it all.
For $13 an hour? Tutors in this area make more than $50 an hour.
We tell her that. She knows that. She doesn’t have any idea how to find another job that will pay her a better wage. I don’t know any better either.
Two examples. What’s the answer? Where are the jobs that can support you if you’re not a professional? I couldn’t live on what I make–after 10 years on my job.
Michelle, I think two other problems are: 1) parents who let their children get up to their eye-balls in student loan debt (I blame the parents – the kids don’t know better) and 2) kids who get degrees in useless or low-paying fields. What did your young woman friend expect to do with a bachelor’s degree in English?
Michelle, I could personally have told her she would have trouble finding a real job with an English degree. I was over 30 before my English degree finally got me a promotion at a job I got with another degree. 🙂
There’s an old joke that goes; How do you get an English Major off your porch? Pay them for the pizza.
The short answer to Linda’s question is Yes. but ……….
Ideally a 40 hour work week would be enough to provide for the typical family. This does not mean a monster home in the suburbs with all the amenities, two cars and kids in every after school activity imagineable not to mention holidays, eating out, designer clothes. It does mean the rent/mortgage gets paid on an adequate home, one car, school needs taken care of and clothes (discount, thrift, second-hand etc). And this won’t happen on a 40 hour work week at minimum wage.
The majority of retail and fast food workers are over 25. This is their job, its not entry level or a foot in a door. Its no different for them then their parent’s generation working as unskilled labor in an auto or steel plant.
McDonalds. Walmart, etc know the 30 hr (rarely are employees over 30h) work week at minimum wage isn’t enough. They more or less admitted it on their websites and during job orientation where they will instruct employees on how to access government benefits. McDonald’s shut down their site for all the negative attention it received. Raise the minimum wage so that a 40 hour work week at minimum wage is a living wage at least for a single person or for two people to work one full time and one part time to raise a family of four. By raising the wage, government programs such as food stamps won’t be needed. As it stands now, the government pays part of Walmart’s labour cost and receives nothing in return.
Student debt may prove to be the next bubble and unlike mortgages there’s no legal way to discharge the debt (I did have a fellow student move to Asia for several years to avoid debt collectors)
First, Linda’s right — students should be adverse to taking loans. Too much money is given out mainly because its the only debt not discharged through bankruptcy. There’s zero risk for banks who generously give out money.
Second, education is overpriced and the cost does not reflect its value. When you factor in tuition and opportunity cost (loss of income earning years), the average Ontario is in his/her late 40s before s/he catches up to the average tradesmen in life time earnings. And remember Ontario teachers are one of the best paid in North America. Tuition should reflect its value as well as cost and thus science and engineering should cost more than humanities — they cost more to run and have more value.
Finally and somewhat contradictory we should not criticize people for studying the wrong major. As a history/philosophy student now teaching middle school science, I know its not the major which is important. but how you apply it and quite frankly being in the right place at the right time.
Ooh, Michelle, I’ve got your answer and it ain’t what you’d expect… 😉
So here goes. First of all, I was a pretty smart student – not talking academically, although I wasn’t too bad in that area either, but economically. I attended to a community college, chose a profession that needed (and was even promised) more workers and worked to keep my debt to the bare minimum. For the next three years after graduation, I stagnated. I managed to keep making my monthly payments, but that was all I did; and as for getting a job, well, I graduated in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So, I took an religious NGO job, which you all know about. I was paid a small wage out of the support I raised, which I couldn’t have lived on here, but because the country I was in had a much lower cost of living and the value of the local currency was so much lower than the value of the dollar, I was able to save a good amount of that wage. In fact, I was able to pay off the rest of my debt. So, the answer is to become a missionary and live in a cheap country 😆 Now, I don’t have a job and I have to apply for reinstatement of my nursing license here, but at least I don’t have the added burden of debt payments. I feel very carefree 😀
Trade schools aren’t all bad either…can’t believe I am saying that!!!! My ex sister in law graduated from beauty school The following year she made $36,000. It cost $6,000. The year after I graduated from a master’s program I made $24,000 –that year she made $50,000. I won’t even tell you what that cost.
I am not criticizing anyone for taking the “wrong” major. I have no sympathy, however, for those who complain that they can’t find a job or don’t make enough BECAUSE of their major.
And Kim is so right about the trades. You may not even need to pay to go to school. Our older son is a master plumber. He worked as an apprentice for two years while going to school two nights a week (at his employer’s expense) and became a journeyman after graduating. He studied on his own to get his master’s license. He makes about $72,000.
I know many workers over 25 and still working at McDonalds. They stay because the job suits them. Some take the whole summer off to stay at summer homes. Their jobs are filled by the students who need it for the summer. Some take time off whenever it works out for spouses. These workers already make over ten/ hour in our area (because they have been there awhile) and we have a much lower cost of living than other areas.
No one in our state has to keep working that job. I know many who were put through two years of schooling to get a better job. Two years is long enough to work many jobs that pay better. Is that easy? No.
I sympathize with those looking for work, no matter what their situation or age. My husband graduated in a similar time period. He never worked in his major. There were few jobs in it. He went another direction and did what he needed to do for his family, including taking other work when it was necessary. We also lived in our basement and put in a lot of work into our home, so that we did not have to live with others. We did without when we had to do so, too. I learned to stretch and stretch a budget.
To assume forty hours a week will always cut it for every worker at every job has not been true for many years.
I would love to see more jobs, for sure. I have no objection to workers fighting for whatever they can get. Still, every job does not need to be one to support a family. And, no, the government is not giving them all benefits. The argument just does not work.
I’m not arguing with what anyone has said, laughing at Roscuro’s situation in fact. I’m just pointing out that when your economy has stagnated to a point where the divide is so great between what people hope for (perhaps based on what they see on television) and what they can earn, there will be problems.
My young friend heard an earful from me the entire time she was in college–which included three years at the the JC. She worked hard and graduated without any debt, which is marvelous. She, however, chose to take yoga and art instead of accounting and business classes as I suggested.
You can lead a horse to water . . .
Her husband made other choices and we came in too late to direct him–though my husband has taught him useful skills over the years which means when he cannot work in his field, he is employable by a contractor. He’s also in high demand from people at church to fix things about their homes.
(My husband is now on the lookout for another young man to train).
The two have come to see that maybe the best they can come up with in their current situations is piecing together a lifestyle, not living an organized, “normal,” one.
I guess they won’t have to worry about health insurance, but both cars are now dead. 😦
My own National Merit scholar supports a family of four on a machinist salary, so I’m not going to complain at all about trade school. He, by the way, didn’t attend a trade school–he got his CAD training and some machinist training in high school (because he went to one of the few high schools that still had programs like that), worked a summer internship as a machinist while in college and finally got recruited by a roommate’s father who knew he needed a job.
What does shock me, however, is how surprised I am when I encounter a young person who goes to college, graduates, and gets a “real” job–like for an accounting firm–as a matter of course.
I’ve known almost NO young people who have done that. It was, however, the norm when I graduated from college back in the dark ages.
One young person explains it this way: “We were sold a bill of goods. We were told if we went to college and graduated we could get a job. That didn’t happen. My generation is disgusted and lost.”
Yes, I agree that they were sold a bill of goods. Schools have a bottom line and do not always act in the best interest of their students. Parents can be as starry eyed as their children.
I remember Nancy Pelosi stating that now musicians can do that for living, because they will have health care. I know lots of musicians. Almost none of them make a living at it. They did what they had to do to support themselves and whomever else they needed to support. Same with those who were going to make it in journalism or writing the great American novel. Many careers are like that. A few make it, most go to plan B.
A lot of the problem is giving young people expectations that are unrealistic. The same is true when Christians tell their children if they do the right thing, they will always be rewarded with good themselves. Not in this life.
Most of my nieces and nephews are working and got jobs right out of school. One niece was offered a job before she graduated. Only one is unemployed now and she did not go to college.
Katleena, I know from my ex-career that a lot of musicians end up as television audio technicians. I use to say that almost everyone I worked with in TV was either a part time musician, an unpublished writer or an actor who been in one movie. 🙂
Wandering Views 
Here’s a couple I found interesting.
First, the PC war on the military continues. And good men who do the hard work of taking down terrorists are punished because of the PC stupidity that runs amok under the Obama admin.
http://nypost.com/2013/12/29/how-political-correctness-humiliated-navy-seals-who-caught-qaeda-killer/
“The night of Sept. 1, 2009, Echo Platoon of Navy SEAL Team 10 headed out into the Fallujah night. Their goal: concluding a five-year search for the al Qaeda killer who had been responsible for the shocking 2004 murders of four American military contractors — one of them an ex-SEAL — whose bodies were then burned, dragged through the streets and hanged from a bridge.”
“Because the man those SEALs captured — Ahmad Hashim Abd Al-Isawi, aka “the Butcher of Fallujah,” a man who lived for mayhem — somehow sustained a bloody lip on the night of his capture.
The contrast between the two instances of violence seems, like many of the details of the case, absurd.”
“Yet for this latter instance of bloodshed three SEALs were charged with serious crimes. All of them — Matthew McCabe, Jonathan Keefe and one known by the pseudonym “Sam Gonzales” — were cleared, but in “Honor and Betrayal: The Untold Story of the Navy SEALs Who Captured the ‘Butcher of Fallujah’ — and the Shameful Ordeal They Later Endured” (Da Capo Press), his follow-up to his previous Navy SEALs bestseller, “Lone Survivor,” author Patrick Robinson asks why they were court-martialed in the first place.”
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And second is this one. Once again, the Russians get it right.
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/23/russia-considers-banning-abortions-as-abortion-decimates-its-population/
“Last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law banning abortion advertising. Some members of the Duma (the Russian state assembly), are talking about going even further and banning the procedure itself. The Russian Orthodox Church, whose numbers are swelling with converts and “reverts,” is weighing in as well. One Orthodox prelate called abortion a “mutiny against God.” I couldn’t have put it better myself.
This is an amazing turn about in a country which has long been known for its tragically high abortion rate. Until recently, the average woman in Russia could expect to have seven abortions over her lifetime. Even The New York Times, no bastion of pro-life sentiment, has been compelled to acknowledge that Russia’s high abortion rate was damaging the health and fertility of Russian women. As the paper noted in a 2003 editorial, “Now the Russian government is attempting to slow the abortion rate. It is an admirable goal, given the toll that multiple abortions have taken on the health and fertility of Russia’s women.” Not to mention the toll that abortion has taken on the unborn, and on the population as a whole.”
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AJ, I really miss you gathering new items for us to read and discuss. It saves me time in the morning and I feel like I somewhat know what is going on in the world. I may not always comment, but I do read it.
Now seems as good a time as any to thank you for all you do in keeping our little community together.
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I have to concur with Kim, I may not agree with AJ’s take but it keeps me somewhat balanced and forces me to think.
Abortion policy in USSR/Russia has fluctuated over time. In the heady days of the Revolution, abortion was free and legal at any time. Access however was a problem. During the Stalin era, concern over the falling birth rate led to a ban on abortion. Once Stalin died, abortion once again became free and legal at any time. With the lack of any other method of reliable birth control (the pill, condoms, etc were scarce), abortion became the default option instead of a last resort. Over time abortion became an accepted part of society especially urban Russia. Under Putin, concerns over the falling birth rate have led to restrictions on abortions — only in the first 12 weeks (with exceptions), waiting periods of 2-7 days, performed only in approved facilities, etc. Access to birth control in the 1990s had already lowered abortion rates in the major cities. It appears the new regulations might be working but in the poorer Asian regions of Russia the abortion rate is still high and climbing. The most likely cause for lower rates in the last 20 years (still extremely high) is better access to birth control, wealth and education as the European side seeks to imitate western Europe.
If Putin’s concern was to lower abortion rate, he should work to have the rural and Asian areas share in the economic success of the European cities. However, I suspect his real intent is to increase the birth rate of ethnic Russians. By limiting their access to abortion, (minority groups especially Muslims have a higher birth rate) he hopes to increase the Russian birth rate. For a long term success I would approach it from the other angle, better access to birth control, wealth and education for the non-Russian groups but my guess is Putin wants to keep them poor and ignorant.
In this way Putin’s not much different than Stalin. Abortion, family size, birth control, etc is not an individual decision but something geared to the benefit of the state and its goals.
Finally, the restrictions on abortions throughout Europe never seem to occur to the pro-choice groups in the US in the same way the social programs for children are anathema to some pro-life groups. Perhaps this points to a compromise — impose European style abortion restrictions and also impose European style policies to benefit the children that are born.
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My links for the day.
France passes a millionaires tax and imposes a 50% (effectively 75% when other taxes are included) tax bracket on any income over a million Euros (1.5 million dollars). It will be interesting to see if millionaires flee the country … my guess is most millionaires already do their banking in Luxembourg or Switzerland already and this will make no difference. A side issue will be the French soccer league — the French league is already rated lower than the UK, Germany, Spain, and possibly Italy but will it decline in quality if soccer stars avoid it for more tax friendly climates.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-passes-75-millionaire-s-tax-1.2478390
British business interests have figured out what Henry Ford said a century ago — pay your workers enough so they can afford the product they make. A lesson US business can take; as minimum wage workers continue to rely on gov’t support to supplement their wages. In effect Walmart workers can only afford to shop at Walmart if the government supplements their wages with food stamps and free health care. Thus, taxpayers are paying people to work at Walmart while the Waltons keep the profit.
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/30/pay-workers-more-cbi-firms
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Interesting explanation on Russian abortion policies, HRW, as usual. Thanks.
I take exception, however to your comments about pro-lifers not wanting programs for children–anathema is a pretty strong word even if you did soften it with “some.”
Petty on my part, I know, but I get tired of having so many hard working, sacrificing friends lumped into casual asides as awful people. It dehumanizes them and belittles their hearts.
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I don’t mean to disparage people’s individual efforts but rather the seemly contradictory attitudes towards government intervention held by some pro-life groups. On one hand they endorse the heavy use of state power to ensure the viability of a fetus but don’t endorse a less intrusive use of state power to ensure the viability of a child. Individual efforts in private charities are fine and good but endorsing state power and nine months later discouraging the use of the state seems contradictory and counter-intuitive to their stated purpose.
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“It will be interesting to see if millionaires flee the country …”
You think? 😉
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HRW, do you believe that every job in the country, if worked 40 a week, should result in enough income to support the average family?
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I know many Walmart workers who are not in any way subsidized by the government. In fact, I know at least a couple who specifically went to work at Walmart to avoid being subsidized by the government and/or having no healthcare.
I am not sure why we think everyone who works every job now needs a livable wage. I never had that when I worked as a young adult; nor did my children. Nor did we or they need that. Many of the workers at many of these types of jobs are getting a foot in the door of the working world, earning spending money or school tuition and not the only income in their family. Many choose these jobs to have flexible hours or for hours that match another job or school needs.
I have no problem with anyone wanting more pay. I also believe Christians have the mandate of God to pay workers what they are worth and to be generous. We will, after all, stand before Him one day. The whole livable wage thing, though, is disingenuous, IMO.
Another thing to consider is that many states will put anyone through a couple of years of schooling or training to be able to get a job beyond these types of jobs. Some take advantage of that and other opportunities; some choose not to do so for various reasons. Should they all be paid the same? Should all types of work get the same wage? Should we not consider danger, hours, flexibility, comfort, ease etc.
Wages are a big subject and I think all of it should be considered. I haven’t scratched the surface, of course.
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I agree with what you’re saying, Kathleena, but I know out here living wage jobs don’t seem as plentiful as they once were. Some of that is owing to the tax burden, some of that to the scarcity of good jobs. California’s minimum wage is higher, and I myself don’t pay anyone less than $10 an hour to work for me even if it’s basic hauling trash or mowing the lawn.
The problem I’m seeing is so many young people not able to move forward in a company, up the ladder. One Bible graduate worked at Starbucks for seven years because they offered health care benefits and she couldn’t find another job that suited her well. I don’t know her wage when she finally left for the mission field, but she couldn’t find a job as a single woman that would support her otherwise.
What happens to someone like her, ten years after college graduation when she still can’t find a job that will support her?
We’ve encouraged the young woman who has cleaned our house since high school (and whom we pay more than $10 an hour) to look for a “real” job now that she has her English degree.
She looked for a job at a book store–something she didn’t need a degree to do. Then a tea shop. I tried to encourage her in other areas, but they didn’t suit her. So she continues cobbling together an income with several house cleaning jobs and a nanny gig to four kids–that she finally has pushed up to $13 an hour. The sad news on that one is she’s essentially homeschooling the oldest child–she oversees it all.
For $13 an hour? Tutors in this area make more than $50 an hour.
We tell her that. She knows that. She doesn’t have any idea how to find another job that will pay her a better wage. I don’t know any better either.
Two examples. What’s the answer? Where are the jobs that can support you if you’re not a professional? I couldn’t live on what I make–after 10 years on my job.
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Michelle, I think two other problems are: 1) parents who let their children get up to their eye-balls in student loan debt (I blame the parents – the kids don’t know better) and 2) kids who get degrees in useless or low-paying fields. What did your young woman friend expect to do with a bachelor’s degree in English?
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Michelle, I could personally have told her she would have trouble finding a real job with an English degree. I was over 30 before my English degree finally got me a promotion at a job I got with another degree. 🙂
There’s an old joke that goes; How do you get an English Major off your porch? Pay them for the pizza.
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Linda, I expected to write a best selling novel/play/screenplay and live in luxury for the rest of my life. 🙂
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The short answer to Linda’s question is Yes. but ……….
Ideally a 40 hour work week would be enough to provide for the typical family. This does not mean a monster home in the suburbs with all the amenities, two cars and kids in every after school activity imagineable not to mention holidays, eating out, designer clothes. It does mean the rent/mortgage gets paid on an adequate home, one car, school needs taken care of and clothes (discount, thrift, second-hand etc). And this won’t happen on a 40 hour work week at minimum wage.
The majority of retail and fast food workers are over 25. This is their job, its not entry level or a foot in a door. Its no different for them then their parent’s generation working as unskilled labor in an auto or steel plant.
McDonalds. Walmart, etc know the 30 hr (rarely are employees over 30h) work week at minimum wage isn’t enough. They more or less admitted it on their websites and during job orientation where they will instruct employees on how to access government benefits. McDonald’s shut down their site for all the negative attention it received. Raise the minimum wage so that a 40 hour work week at minimum wage is a living wage at least for a single person or for two people to work one full time and one part time to raise a family of four. By raising the wage, government programs such as food stamps won’t be needed. As it stands now, the government pays part of Walmart’s labour cost and receives nothing in return.
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Student debt may prove to be the next bubble and unlike mortgages there’s no legal way to discharge the debt (I did have a fellow student move to Asia for several years to avoid debt collectors)
First, Linda’s right — students should be adverse to taking loans. Too much money is given out mainly because its the only debt not discharged through bankruptcy. There’s zero risk for banks who generously give out money.
Second, education is overpriced and the cost does not reflect its value. When you factor in tuition and opportunity cost (loss of income earning years), the average Ontario is in his/her late 40s before s/he catches up to the average tradesmen in life time earnings. And remember Ontario teachers are one of the best paid in North America. Tuition should reflect its value as well as cost and thus science and engineering should cost more than humanities — they cost more to run and have more value.
Finally and somewhat contradictory we should not criticize people for studying the wrong major. As a history/philosophy student now teaching middle school science, I know its not the major which is important. but how you apply it and quite frankly being in the right place at the right time.
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Interesting idea/experiment in Peru in creating energy independence for the poor. Far cheaper than the massive Three Gorges dam built by the Chinese.
http://inhabitat.com/peru-solar-power-program-aims-to-give-electricity-to-the-countrys-2-million-poorest-citizens/
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Ooh, Michelle, I’ve got your answer and it ain’t what you’d expect… 😉
So here goes. First of all, I was a pretty smart student – not talking academically, although I wasn’t too bad in that area either, but economically. I attended to a community college, chose a profession that needed (and was even promised) more workers and worked to keep my debt to the bare minimum. For the next three years after graduation, I stagnated. I managed to keep making my monthly payments, but that was all I did; and as for getting a job, well, I graduated in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So, I took an religious NGO job, which you all know about. I was paid a small wage out of the support I raised, which I couldn’t have lived on here, but because the country I was in had a much lower cost of living and the value of the local currency was so much lower than the value of the dollar, I was able to save a good amount of that wage. In fact, I was able to pay off the rest of my debt. So, the answer is to become a missionary and live in a cheap country 😆 Now, I don’t have a job and I have to apply for reinstatement of my nursing license here, but at least I don’t have the added burden of debt payments. I feel very carefree 😀
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No one is criticizing people for studying the wrong major. They are just pointing out some majors will help you find a job more than others.
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Trade schools aren’t all bad either…can’t believe I am saying that!!!! My ex sister in law graduated from beauty school The following year she made $36,000. It cost $6,000. The year after I graduated from a master’s program I made $24,000 –that year she made $50,000. I won’t even tell you what that cost.
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I am not criticizing anyone for taking the “wrong” major. I have no sympathy, however, for those who complain that they can’t find a job or don’t make enough BECAUSE of their major.
And Kim is so right about the trades. You may not even need to pay to go to school. Our older son is a master plumber. He worked as an apprentice for two years while going to school two nights a week (at his employer’s expense) and became a journeyman after graduating. He studied on his own to get his master’s license. He makes about $72,000.
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I know many workers over 25 and still working at McDonalds. They stay because the job suits them. Some take the whole summer off to stay at summer homes. Their jobs are filled by the students who need it for the summer. Some take time off whenever it works out for spouses. These workers already make over ten/ hour in our area (because they have been there awhile) and we have a much lower cost of living than other areas.
No one in our state has to keep working that job. I know many who were put through two years of schooling to get a better job. Two years is long enough to work many jobs that pay better. Is that easy? No.
I sympathize with those looking for work, no matter what their situation or age. My husband graduated in a similar time period. He never worked in his major. There were few jobs in it. He went another direction and did what he needed to do for his family, including taking other work when it was necessary. We also lived in our basement and put in a lot of work into our home, so that we did not have to live with others. We did without when we had to do so, too. I learned to stretch and stretch a budget.
To assume forty hours a week will always cut it for every worker at every job has not been true for many years.
I would love to see more jobs, for sure. I have no objection to workers fighting for whatever they can get. Still, every job does not need to be one to support a family. And, no, the government is not giving them all benefits. The argument just does not work.
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I’m not arguing with what anyone has said, laughing at Roscuro’s situation in fact. I’m just pointing out that when your economy has stagnated to a point where the divide is so great between what people hope for (perhaps based on what they see on television) and what they can earn, there will be problems.
My young friend heard an earful from me the entire time she was in college–which included three years at the the JC. She worked hard and graduated without any debt, which is marvelous. She, however, chose to take yoga and art instead of accounting and business classes as I suggested.
You can lead a horse to water . . .
Her husband made other choices and we came in too late to direct him–though my husband has taught him useful skills over the years which means when he cannot work in his field, he is employable by a contractor. He’s also in high demand from people at church to fix things about their homes.
(My husband is now on the lookout for another young man to train).
The two have come to see that maybe the best they can come up with in their current situations is piecing together a lifestyle, not living an organized, “normal,” one.
I guess they won’t have to worry about health insurance, but both cars are now dead. 😦
My own National Merit scholar supports a family of four on a machinist salary, so I’m not going to complain at all about trade school. He, by the way, didn’t attend a trade school–he got his CAD training and some machinist training in high school (because he went to one of the few high schools that still had programs like that), worked a summer internship as a machinist while in college and finally got recruited by a roommate’s father who knew he needed a job.
Or, as we like to say, God at work.
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What does shock me, however, is how surprised I am when I encounter a young person who goes to college, graduates, and gets a “real” job–like for an accounting firm–as a matter of course.
I’ve known almost NO young people who have done that. It was, however, the norm when I graduated from college back in the dark ages.
One young person explains it this way: “We were sold a bill of goods. We were told if we went to college and graduated we could get a job. That didn’t happen. My generation is disgusted and lost.”
😦
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Yes, I agree that they were sold a bill of goods. Schools have a bottom line and do not always act in the best interest of their students. Parents can be as starry eyed as their children.
I remember Nancy Pelosi stating that now musicians can do that for living, because they will have health care. I know lots of musicians. Almost none of them make a living at it. They did what they had to do to support themselves and whomever else they needed to support. Same with those who were going to make it in journalism or writing the great American novel. Many careers are like that. A few make it, most go to plan B.
A lot of the problem is giving young people expectations that are unrealistic. The same is true when Christians tell their children if they do the right thing, they will always be rewarded with good themselves. Not in this life.
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Most of my nieces and nephews are working and got jobs right out of school. One niece was offered a job before she graduated. Only one is unemployed now and she did not go to college.
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Katleena, I know from my ex-career that a lot of musicians end up as television audio technicians. I use to say that almost everyone I worked with in TV was either a part time musician, an unpublished writer or an actor who been in one movie. 🙂
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It a job. 😀
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It’s a job, that is!
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