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Our Daily Thread 8-16-13

Good Morning!

It’s Friday! 🙂

On this day in 1812 Detroit fell to Indian and British troops in the War of 1812.

In 1858 a telegraphed message from Britain’s Queen Victoria to President Buchanan was transmitted over the recently laid trans-Atlantic cable.

In 1861 President Lincoln prohibited the Union states from trading with the states of the Confederacy.

In 1954 Sports Illustrated was published for the first time.

And in 1960 Cyprus was granted independence by Britain.

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Quote of the Day

“A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere.“

Groucho Marx

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Not many birthdays today, but we do have some notable events.

This band’s first single was released today in 1966. It was this song.

And sadly this man died today in 1977 at the age of 42. And this was the first song I learned to play on the guitar.

And this one is because I like it. 🙂

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Anyone have a QoD for us?

70 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-16-13”

  5. Linda, Amos does that. I just reach over and put my hand on him and he stops. He has taken to sleeping in the bed with me again. I don’t know what Mo does. She sleeps on the other side of the bed. Mostly she refuses to get out of the bed and if she does it is only to trick poor Amos so that he will jump down to follow her but then he can’t get back up when she does.

    I now have a twitter account if any of you have one you can follow me about Alabama Coastal Properties. It is the short version of my first name with my last name of “hey, burt I think I’m gonna Hurl” and the letters ACP I mostly did it because it helped get my profile on the KW sites to 100% I really am not sure what all I am supposed to post on all these sites I now have, but we shall see.
    I listed a lot last week and got an accepted offer this week and we are headed to closing. I will make a whopping $283 off of it but is is 283 dollars I didn’t have before and it sort of fell in my lap.

    I am about to post over on the prayer thread, but please pray for my “Daddy J”

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  6. Chas was here looking at the 115 posts from yesterday. Politics and prayer were up, but “The Daily Thread” wasn’t up before he had to leave.

    How can you prevent states from trading with each other?
    Yankee soldiers traded food & stuff for tobacco with rebel soldiers all the time.

    Is it Friday yet?

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  9. Kim. I have jury duty Tuesday. I have only been selected once. I was also in a group waiting for them to settle because neither side wanted to face a jury. And I was once excluded because I had a Bro-in-law who was a county sherriff.
    I doubt that I will be selected for anything Tuesday.

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  10. I am currently working on my opinions Chas. I get my news from Fox News and various right wing groups I subscribe to online. I may dress in a long dress with no make up so I look like I belong to one of the more strict flavors of churches down here. I also can just look at a person and tell if they are guilty or not, after all they wouldn’t be there now if they were innocent would they?

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  11. The most interesting cartoon was all the Secretaries of State saying they can make peace in the Middle East happen. I suppose they have to believe that it isn’t futile. But there will not be peace in the area until the return of Christ.
    But they can’t operate on that thesis. They have to keep trying.

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  13. Michelle, Amen to that article! I work with a lot of young people at church and find myself preaching the 10,000 hours theory all the time. It is true what is said about baptizing dream language into our faith; we see young people expecting God to do miracles with little effort on their own part. Then their failure is somehow God’s fault. They take it as harsh when you point out to them that God has written a readily accessible Book to explain how to succeed in life.

    Chas and Kim, I have jury duty next week. I have never been chosen for a jury either. My brother is a cop and that usually knocks me out. The closest I ever came was two lawyers in a bit of a fight over me once. One trying to seat me and the other trying to eliminate me. Not sure why as they only knew my age, what I did for a living, how long I had been married and the number of kids I have.

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  15. Good morning! A bit quieter around here than it was last night with the race to 100 😉

    Ann, from last night: Good to hear that parents were invited to that seminar, and what a good discussion you had with your older daughter after it when you hadn’t been able to attend. I also think it was good that they distributed an outline you could see ahead of time, but like you discovered, the discussion doesn’t always go the way the outline may suggest.

    We had a guest preacher at our church a couple months ago, and he made a very callous comment about the blessing of children during the course of the sermon. Later, when I looked at the sermon copy that had been provided before the service, I saw that there was no such statement like the one he had made. Obviously, they don’t follow exactly what they type up ahead of time, but sometimes it’s those off-the-cuff remarks that leave the most lasting impression.

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  16. Usually, the objection of a single lawyer can disqualify a person for the jury.
    But I’m with Kim. I believe everything Shannon Bream tells me. Nobody that pretty would lie.
    And I didn’t watch the President’s speech. I figure that if he says something, Rush’ll tell me.
    And i can tell a guilty man by looking into his eyes. A dead giveaway.
    The problem with that is that there may be a couple of hefty guys waiting for me in the parking lot.

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  17. I see that two different people asked me theological questions on yesterday’s thread; since they came while I was composing a message myself, I didn’t see them until someone called my attention to them. So I’ll give brief answers here:

    Cheryl, Is Congregational polity one of the reasons you left the Baptists?

    It was kind of irrelevant, actually. I realized God’s glory was bigger than I’d ever seen, that dispensationalism was a faulty eschatology, that the Reformed doctrines were more biblical, and that (genuine) Reformed worship (which is hard to find) much more honoring to God and also sweeter for the worshiper.

    Cheryl, what do you believe is the error of Catholicism, and how are the Lutherans like them in terms of the Lord’s supper?

    I don’t think there is just one error of Catholicism; I think it is multi-faceted. I don’t know if you’re specifically thinking of the Lord’s supper when you speak of “the” error, but if so: It has been years since I studied this (trying to understand Lutheranism just a little bit, since there was a Lutheran church near my home that appealed to me in some ways, and I attended several services there), but basically there are about four different ways to see the Lord’s supper (probably more):
    –Catholics believe that the elements change into actual body and blood, though they still appear/taste like the food items they started out as.
    –I never quite understood the Lutheran doctrine, because it isn’t exactly literal body and blood, but seemed to be just short of that.
    –Reformed believe that the bread and wine are real bread and wine; they do not change into anything else, but that there is true spiritual significance in partaking.
    –Baptists and some others believe that it is only a memorial; theoretically one could “skip it” and it would be no big deal, as long as you remember that Christ died. Thus Baptist churches tend to participate infrequently, monthly in my own experience but sometimes only quarterly or even annually, I hear from others. (The two PCA churches I’ve been a member of have partaken weekly, because it is an important part of the service.)

    If I missed something in one of these answers, let me know. . . .

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  18. Chas and Kim,

    When they bring in the defendant, casually turn to the nearest person and say just loudly enough to be heard “Yeah, he looks guilty, this shouldn’t take long to decide.” or “He/she looks like my dirtbag ex-husband/wife.” You’ll be home before lunch. 🙂

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  19. Three people here are on jury duty next week? That’s a pretty weird coincidence.

    Today I get to go to the beach for work. They’re releasing a rehabilitated sea lion who’s been outfitted with a satellite tag so maybe they’ll be able to get some cues as to what caused the large mortality rate this year among the creatures on our coastline.

    The tags are very expensive — $3,000 to $5,000 — but apparently a benefactor (a former newspaper reporter-turned-crime novelist from back east who may be there today) helped pay for it. Writing crime novels is clearly way more lucrative that being a reporter and she’s managed to do quite well. 🙂

    Cheryl, thanks for the answers, very succinct and well-said (and I’ve also struggled with understanding the Lutheran view of Communion).

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  22. Donna, what was the sea lion rehabilitated from – alcohol? drugs? Oh my.

    Cheryl, I spent 20+ years in an LCMS church and I never understood their meaning of communion, either.

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  23. A child fell from the 19th floor balcony of the condominium complex where I used to hang out and work all the time. They fell onto the 3rd floor parking garage and someone found them.
    There has been so much tragedy at the beach this summer. This is the 4th person to fall from a balcony this year. An autistic child wondered off while everyone was asleep and drowned earlier in the year and there have been several people caught in rip tides. I am just sick. Vacations are supposed to be happy and not end in heartache.
    Please pray for these parents whoever they are.

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  27. I read Fifty Shades of Bad Writing because I wanted to know what all the hoopla was about and several women I knew were talking about it and saying it was the best summer read, blah, blah, blah. What it is is “Mommy Porn” disquised as a love story. It is one bad sex scene after another tied together with some painful dialogue that could rival the whole S & M aspect of the book.

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  28. OK Cheryl, I read the article and the comments and I have to change what I said. I called it “Mommy Porn” but I have changed my opinion, YES it is Child Porn. It is still horribly written and should never have made it to publication.

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  29. How can a child fall from a balcony?
    All the balconies I have seen have very narrow spaces between the bars. A person needs to be drunk or deliberately pushed/jumped over all the balconies I have seen. Building owners try to prevent this.

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  33. Cheryl, I asked the question you quoted above @ 10:45:04 (mine was the second question in said post) based on this statement you made yesterday:

    6 Arrows, my belief that the Lutherans are wrong about the Lord’s supper (it’s too close to the error of Catholicism) is what would keep me from participating in a Lutheran church, even if it is “open” to me;

    I was only curious how you perceive Lutheran belief to be “close” to Catholic belief about the Lord’s supper.

    A few people here have said they don’t understand Lutheran belief on communion.
    I’ve been a lifelong Lutheran, and I’ll admit I don’t entirely understand it, either. Even our pastors have said that it is a mystery how we can be receiving the body and blood of Christ, when it’s not His physical body and blood we are partaking of. They’ve referred to it as a supernatural process that defies human description.

    To me, when I hear the words “It’s a mystery”, referring to anything in the Bible (not just communion), I believe there are a couple ways to think about those words. Is it a mystery because God has chosen not to reveal to His people how something works, or is it a mystery because we have not dug deeply enough into Scripture, and don’t yet understand something because we haven’t considered the whole counsel of scripture, or we have blind spots, or it’s simply beyond our personal ability to comprehend, even though it may be more clear to someone else.

    Bottom line, I am thankful that our salvation is not based on our intelligence! We’re fallible human beings, lay people and clergy alike, and there will be some things we will get wrong. But I am thankful that we have the Word of God, and the exhortation to be good Bereans and search the scriptures to see whether “these things [that we are taught] be so”, but especially that we believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The peace that brings is priceless.

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  34. 6 Arrows, it has been a good number of years since I did what little bit of research I did on Lutheran views of the sacraments (more than 10 years ago, considering I was still in Chicago), and I didn’t even fully understand it then. But theologically Lutheranism IS a midpoint view; it IS closer to Catholicism’s view than other viewpoints are. That doesn’t “prove” that it is wrong, but I’m not the only person who finds it too “close” to Catholicism for comfort.

    And part of me understands the “closed communion” (as the simplest way to “fence the table”), but I don’t agree with it, anymore than I agree with some Baptists’ insistence that one must have been baptized in a Baptist church in order to be considered genuinely “baptized.” The body of Christ is bigger than that. Now, sometimes my own denomination is too “broad” (we have issues with having some pastors who believe in theistic evolution and other errors, but are allowed to stay–this year some of those issues are coming to a head, and we need prayer), but I don’t think that the answer to being overly broad is being overly narrow.

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  35. I don’t know of a Baptist insistance that someone must be baptised in a Baptist church in order to be genuinely “baptised”. Baptist believe that baptism is by immersion. That is the point, not the church that performs the baptism.
    Most Pentecostal churches are spun off from the Methodist tradition, but they baptise by immersion. That is considered baptism.
    Baptists come from the ancient Anabaptists in the middle ages. The issue was not the form of baptism, but the belief in “believer’s baptism”. That is, a person is baptised subsequent to his conversion to Christ.
    Baptism of a child doesn’t mean anything.
    Many Baptists have children dedicated. All my grandchildren were dedicated. I’m ok with that, but only mildly so. Chuck wasn’t formally dedicated, but I made a personal dedication before he was born.

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  36. Well, Luther used to be a Catholic, so that may explain some of the similarity. 🙂

    One of my siblings left the Lutheran church, and the non-denominational church she joined “required” (that was her word) her to be baptized by them when she joined, even though she’d previously been baptized elsewhere (as an infant). I’d never heard of anyone being asked to be baptized a second time. That made me think of the passage from Ephesians 4:

    4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    That “requirement” didn’t seem right to me.

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  37. The Nicene Creed dates from the 4th Century. It dealt with the issue of One Baptism because people were being baptized every time the “spirit hit them” which only dilutes the significance of it.

    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all that is, seen and unseen.
    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    of one Being with the Father.
    Through him all things were made.
    For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven:
    by the power of the Holy Spirit
    he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
    and was made man.
    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered death and was buried.
    On the third day he rose again
    in accordance with the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
    He has spoken through the Prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come. Amen.

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  38. From the Book of Common Prayer

    Holy Baptism

    Q. What is Holy Baptism?
    A. Holy Baptism is the sacrament by which God adopts us
    as his children and makes us members of Christ’s Body,
    the Church, and inheritors of the kingdom of God.

    Q. What is the outward and visible sign in Baptism?
    A. The outward and visible sign in Baptism is water, in
    which the person is baptized in the Name of the Father,
    and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

    Q. What is the inward and spiritual grace in Baptism?
    A. The inward and spiritual grace in Baptism is union with
    Christ in his death and resurrection, birth into God’s
    family the Church, forgiveness of sins, and new life in
    the Holy Spirit.

    Q. What is required of us at Baptism?
    A. It is required that we renounce Satan, repent of our sins,
    and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

    Q. Why then are infants baptized?
    A. Infants are baptized so that they can share citizenship in
    the Covenant, membership in Christ, and redemption
    by God.

    Q. How are the promises for infants made and carried out?
    A. Promises are made for them by their parents and sponsors, who guarantee that the infants will be brought up within the Church, to know Christ and be able to follow Him.

    Kim again: I won’t argue for nor against infant baptism. I was baptized and an infant and again when I was in 5th grade. Once I was sprinked and once I was dunked.
    BG was Christened/Baptized at 3 months on Sunday, January 11th which is the traditional date of Christ’s Baptism. When I questioned my priest he explained that just like she was born into my family I was giving her for adoption into God’s family (the Church) when she is an adult she can make the decision to remain a member of my family and of the Church or she can renounce it. Just as I am guiding her into adulthood as my child, I am guiding her into a relationship with her God the Father.

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  39. Thank you for those who have prayed and offered words for Daddy J. As I said on the prayer thread, he is 81 years old and has enjoyed great health until now. He knows his Savior. He came out of a coma and has been able to communicate with his family…that in itself is a beautiful gift.

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  42. We had both our children dedicated to the Lord, however, it was more of a dedication of us as parents to raise them in a Godly home and to guide them to belief in Christ. The congregation also stood and agreed to support us and our children in this endeavour.

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  43. We don’t do dedications, but, as members of the congregation, we are exhorted in our Holy Baptism liturgy, as brothers and sisters in Christ, to help the parents and sponsors provide spiritual support to the baptized. Those willing to carry out this responsibility answer, “Yes, as God gives me strength.”

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  44. While I don’t believe in being baptized multiple times, I don’t think that is what that Ephesians passage and the Nicene Creed mean. At the time, folks were being baptized in the name of John (and others, I think) and this passage was saying there is only one NAME in which to be baptized.

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  45. Chas, I was baptized by immersion as a believer (but a very young one) . . . but the church wasn’t technically a Baptist church. (For all practical purposes it was; but the name was “Bible” church and not “Baptist” church.) A few times churches had a hard time accepting my baptism, which Mom said didn’t happen with any of my siblings baptized in Baptist churches. And obviously Baptist churches insist on baptism by immersion. I can understand the insistence on “believer’s baptism”; I cannot understand the insistence on immersion. (It may be your preferred mode, but that doesn’t mean nothing else “counts.”)

    For me, I can make a biblical argument for or against infant baptism; baptism is one of those areas where I wish Scripture “connected the dots” more clearly: “Thou used to circumcise thy boys; now, do so no longer. Instead baptize your children, both male and female. And thou needest not attempt to drown them; a small amount of water shalt do.” Or “Baptize not thy offspring until thou knowest they understand, and when thou baptizeth, make sure every hair on their head getteth wet.”

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  46. Chas, My wife never wanted us to “dedicate” my son as a baby at our Baptist church because she thought it was too close to Catholicism. When my son was 7 or 8, I teased him that I might dedicate him with the babies since he had never been “dedicated”. Incensed, he responded that he would call my parents and have them dedicate me since I had also never been dedicated as a baby.

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  47. I am not sure of the problem you had Cheryl. In every Baptist Church I’ve been in, you could walk down at the invitation, tell them (pastor, councellors) that you are a Christian and have been baptised by immersion in (sometimes the church doesn’t exist anymore). You will be accepted. After that, you just transfer your membership (by letter). In times past, the transferring church would include comments about what you had done (deacon, SS teacher, etc.), but they don’t do that anymore for fear of privacy violations.

    Baby dedication doesn’t do anything for the baby. It’s a parent’s covenant with the church and God to raise the child in the church with teaching an training in Christian principles. With the ultimate view that the child will become a Christian and servant of Christ.

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  50. I went back and read several of the links posted here today. Michelle’s National Review link was good. Yep, there’s a lot of that follow-your-dreams, you-can-be-whatever-you-want-to-be (without working very hard) mentality out there. Can one even find a graduation card these days that doesn’t say something like that, or “You did a great job!”, even if you didn’t accomplish much more than barely squeak through and get a signed diploma?

    Loved this: “Forget radical. Forget awesome. Let’s ”settle” for simply faithful — demonstrating the fortitude to show up each day, diligently discharge your duties, and go to sleep with the resolve to do it again tomorrow.” Amen.

    That link about 50 Shades of Grey. Oh. My. I’ll just say that won’t be going on my list of books to read. Horrible.

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  52. AJ! (the seal release).

    Our release went off swimmingly. 🙂 There were 5 sea lions altogether — Volunteers carry them inside large plastic dog crates over the rocks to the shoreline and then open the doors to watch them bound into the foamy waves, bobbing up and down for some time before they vanish from sight. It was a really great day today, love watching those sea lions (not to mention being in the 68 degree weather at the beach!).

    I did some “tout” videos of it that I posted on FB and Twitter.

    Interesting discussion about baptism — we practice infant baptism (like Cheryl, I can see the arguments both pro and con for that, but I’m sufficiently convinced that infant baptism is biblical). We don’t require a particular mode of baptism in considering new members who have been baptized in the past. We even accept Roman Catholic baptisms (as they are done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

    Meanwhile, since we’re talking church, Tammy and Kare12 posted this link today on fb which I thought was good (regarding “seeker sensitive” churches):

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithwalkers/2013/08/bill-blankschaen-why-i-left-your-seeker-friendly-church/

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  53. Well, time for dishes (ALWAYS DISHES!) again, then we’re going to fireworks that kick off our town’s yearly “fest”. Not sure if I’ll be around here this weekend, but you all be sure to behave! 🙂

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  54. I have a friend who moved to the “left coast” (Vancouver Island) and started attending a seeker church housed in a movie theatre. When we visited them, I was very uncomfortable attending their church – felt like I wasn’t a part of anything, like it was a show or something. If I was seeking something, I certainly wouldn’t have picked that church to go to.

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  56. Well I was sprinkled as a child in the Methodist church…but, after I came to know Christ as my Savior, I was baptized at Socastee Baptist Church…Socastee is right out the back gate of the former Air Force Base in Myrtle Beach…I was dunked….that was in 1976….I’m enjoying reading this conversation you all are having about this stuff…a person could learn a thing or two hanging around here!! 🙂

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  58. I like sour pickles. My husband makes really good ones. But the startled expression on people’s faces when they bite into one (somehow believing a dill pickle is a sour pickle), funny as it is, is not worth the waste of a good pickle.

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  59. me too, Nancyjill, I was sprinkled as an infant and then when I became a believer as an adult, I chose baptism. My family did not go to church. I went a few times with grandparents

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  60. I was baptized at 14 upon confession of faith – fully dunked!

    Mumsee, I don’t think I’ve ever had sour pickles then – what makes them sourer than dills – I think I might like them as I love all things sour.

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  62. Husband says he puts more alum in the sour ones, and no dill. Makes my mouth water to think of them. I am growing cucumbers as fast as I can but so far I only have flowers. Lots of honey bees now though.

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