And by beast, this is the kinda stuff his remarks, along with Sharpton and company, are feeding. It’s irresponsible. If you’re not gonna be constructive, then just be quiet.
From President Obama’s speech..
“There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often. ”
As a women we are taught how to stay safe. We are told that when we encounter a strange man to trust our instincts, play it safe, don’t take chances. Don’t stay alone with him any longer than you have to. Lately however I have found myself acting a little differently when the man is black. When I encounter a strange white man I feel free to do what I have to, to protect myself. I feel free to cross the street, lock the car door or get off the elevator. When I do these things I don’t fear being called a racist. I really doubt most even notice. But when the man is black I feel the need to be more subtle. To pretend I’m putting my elbow in the window sill so I can lock the door or that there is something across the street or on this floor that I need. In some cases I just take my chances because now to do what I did when the man was white makes me a racist. Women or any person shouldn’t have to put themselves in danger to be politically correct.
Anyone who continues to spout on about SYG and Zimmerman doesn’t know what he’s talking about and isn’t capable of reasoned discussion, only wanting to blather about his political pet peeves.
What’s it say about our frame of reference regarding economics when we hardly bat an eye at the notion that “the president…took (companies) out of bankruptcy”? Like that really could happen, like he really should have that power, like it really could work.
I won’t post the link because it is offensive but a group of Satanists has staged a Westboro-like protest against the nut jobs at Westboro Baptist.
I do believe Satan is real and working to gain souls, but I also think there is some humor in treating Westboro as they have treated others.
What, exactly, is supposed to be the racist element in the Zimmerman case? I still can’t pinpoint where the blatant racism is supposed to be. Making hay out of this case, where an argument for racism is only ever marginal, at most,cheapens those *actual* incidents of racism, which reasonable people are willing to admit do occur. The ranting about Zimmerman / Martin is counterproductive, exacerbating the problem.
I am 55 years old. Blacks have received preferential treatment in college admissions, financial aid, government hiring, corporate hiring, government contracting and promotions for my entire lifetime. Among the beneficiaries have heen Obama, Michelle and Holder. Like the old Ann Richards joke, those people woke up on third and thought they hit a triple.
In some ways I agree that the president’s remarks may have only fanned the flames on this issue.
But …
He made one point that I appreciated and thought was a good reminder to those of us scratching our heads over the (over)reaction to the verdict — and that is how this incident was viewed in a unique way by the black community; it was painful for black Americans in a way that perhaps it wasn’t for white Americans. I can see how that would be the case and thought that particular point was one that I and others who aren’t black might not always fully appreciate.
These things don’t happen in a cultural void, but in context — and in the context of the nation’s history of racial division, the incident looked much different to black Americans than it did to the rest of us.
In an objective sense, however. I don’t see where this incident was a case of racism or even racial profiling per se (though I still think Zimmerman was overzealous in his behavior).
But trying now to create & pursue a federal civil rights case (which is unjustified in terms of any real evidence according to most legal authorities) is a bad course to take.
I want to be fair in my following comments so keep that in mind when I say that:
ALL stereotypes are based on some degree of truth.
So while I will concede that there are redneck bubbas roaming the South spouting racists remarks, it also does no good for blacks people roaming cities attacking people and destroying property because they don’t like the outcome of a trial. Wal-Mart and the people in California had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial.
Donna, The most troubling part of this case was the way it was perceived by much (not all) of the black community, including Obama. Most (with notable exceptions like Charles Barkley) could not look at the case rationally. They refused to see that Trayvon’s poor behavior caused his own death.
Ricky, but I think to some degree it “played” that way because of what really is a collective consciousness coming out of the nation’s historic (much of it recent, some of it ongoing) racial struggles. So I can understand that somewhat, that groups of people will perceive some of these things differently based on that identity. It was much more personal for black Americans, right or wrong.
I agree, though, that much of the discussion of this case has bordered on the overly emotional and even irrational (and the media has been quick to frame it so often in terms of race). While it may have “appeared” to be a race case, the facts simply didn’t really bear that assumption out.
Here’s another take from a Black woman who was mentored by the same woman who mentored me 35 years earlier. A graduate of the USNA who served in the Marines, she is wise above her age:
There is much that is good in the article Michelle posted, but something is missing. The sad fact is that young black males commit violent crimes at a rate that is much higher than any other group. Blacks need to understand that this behavior by a significant portion of their young males causes other people (including the police) to “profile” them. I taught my son to treat each person as an individual. I have taken a carload full of young black males on a 400 mile weeklong trip to a basketball camp, and we had a great time. It was interesting to oberve the other patrons every time we entered a restaurant. However, I also taught my son that it is generally safer to live in areas that are not heavily black. Unless I see a change in the behavior of young black males, I will teach my grandchildren the same lesson.
Something else that could be added to Michelle’s linked article is that it would be wrong to assume the only victims of police harassment and abuse of power are blacks and other minorities. The injustice may be worse for those demographics, but the fact that plenty of white folks are abused by power loving cops indicates part of the problem comes from different motivations. Google it. And Will Grigg, a black guy with writing style, is another place to start research.
I would like to ask the white men on here, have you ever had someone lock their doors or cross the street because of you? Back in the early 80’s my brother, who had long hair then and my cousin who had long and a beard, stopped to assist a lady whose car had broken down. She locked her door and wouldn’t let them help her. We laughed at them and told them is was the “hippy” hair cuts. I have also felt watched in stores especially when I was a teenager and when my son was small.
KBells, When I took five teenage black ballplayers into restaurants, I saw the eyes on us. The boys were very well-behaved and the looks soon disappeared.
On several occasions, I have been the only “gringo” in a large group. Once my car broke down at night on the Interstate and the only local business was a Mexican-Ametican dance hall. I got some very suspicious looks until the manager announced I wasn’t with the INS.
Another time my son and I were in the mall in Brownsville, Texas. My son (who is and looks partially Hispanic) whispered, “Dad, You are the only white person in this entire mall”. I looked around and sure enough, all I saw were brown faces and they were all staring right at me. Again, once everyone understood that I wasn’t there to deport anyone, I encountered no hostility.
The only places where I really sensed hostility was in Mexico and in black neighborhoods in the North. I understood some of the reason for the hostility, kept a low profile and left ASAP.
All of us will be put in situations where people will prejudge us. The important thing is not to confirm their fears.
My son said that Zimmerman should move to Laredo, Texas which is between 95% and 100% Hispanic for three reasons:
1. He would blend in perfectly;
2. There are no blacks there to seek revenge; and
3. It is the one place in the US where people wouldn’t know who he is. That is the funny part. Ninety percent of my wife’s relatives would have no idea who he was or what he had been involved in.
In Annandale, we lived a block & a half from the main street that went through town.
One evening, I walked up to the drug store, I was wearing grungy stuff and must have looked unusually bad. I was waiting at a traffic light, then it changed. As I started across, a woman in the car that had just stopped reached over and locked her door.
i didn’t blame her.
My car automatically locks all the doors when I put it into gear. The truck doesn’t.
People keep asking if Trayvon had been white and Zimmerman black what would have happened. O don’t know ask Rodrick Scott. http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490926/jury-finds-roderick-scott-not-guilty/
I know there are some differences. Christopher was caught red handed committing a crime, but also Mr. Scot pulled the gun on him before he was threatened, so it may even out.
We hit the locks every time we enter a city neighbourhood of which we have no knowledge. We learned to do that after a stoned-looking kid tried to open our side door while we were stopped at a traffic light in inner-city Indianapolis. He happened to be black but it was the fact he was going for our door handle which alarmed us.
I lived for a while in the inner-city of a large manufacturing centre. There was a huge minority/immigrant population of nearly every national, ethnic and religious background. Most of the panhandlers/addicts/mentally ill that I would encounter on the street were white and obviously spoke English as their first language. In fact I only recall two black panhandlers and none of any other minority. The prostitutes I saw on the street were all of Caucasian appearance. I once witnessed the arrest of a young man which involved a lot of police. He was white and so were the women who stood on the other side of the street and screamed profane insults at the police, accusing them of brutal treatment. Profiles never fit individual experience.
Where is the alleged racism in the Zimmerman case? Who seriously makes the argument there was blatant racism at any point? Can any race baiters here help a cracker understand?
It’s largely assumed and not based on hard facts, as you suggest, Solar.
I saw a Democrat consultant interviewed yesterday who conceded that, based on his past, Zimmerman appeared to be very comfortable interacting with people of different races.
On the night of the incident, It was the dispatcher who asked about Trayvon’s race, Zimmerman never brought it up until then (and he sounded as if he wasn’t quite sure when he answered — can’t remember his words, but it was either “I ‘think’ he’s black” or “He ‘looks’ black”). I think that’s why the legal experts on both sides acknowledge that a federal civil rights case has little chance.
But because the victim was black and the perpetrator was, ahem, white Hispanic 🙄 , the racial component has simply been read into it by many. And that’s really unfortunate.
That said, one of my fb friends (who’s very liberal & somewhat emotional, but usually has more sense than this) posted something last night about how there’s nothing wrong with wearing a hoodie — but there is something very wrong about wearing a white robe and hood.
Huh? For the life of me I couldn’t figure out her point — other than that she was apparently suggesting that those who acquitted Zimmerman (or who agreed with the verdict) were KKK sympathizers?
On the historical divided between black and white and how it affects perception of current events – I am currently experiencing a very different perspective, which may be beneficial to this discussion, as a white Westerner in an African country that has very old connections with the slave trade to the Americas. There are many layers.
On the surface, having light skin is perceived as a sign of wealth. Not only the European raiders and colonists (and now, tourists), but also the Berber and Middle Eastern merchants who have come here for millennia have contributed to that impression. Sadly, the women often use dangerous chemicals to lighten their skin in order to attract husbands. I am naturally very pale, so I get remarks on my complexion and assumed wealth. That I just find amusing.
The US is viewed as the promised land, as it has long been visible as a military power and aid source, so people tend to view the mostly American team as an inexhaustible source of funds. It is a cultural practice to ask one’s friends and neighbours for what you need or want, so they are treating us as they would their fellow citizens. Only they are more aggressive with us, because they know we probably have what they want. That is annoying, and it requires love and patience to deal with each request properly.
They also view white people as very morally permissive. The media programming has influenced this, but even more influential so is the behaviour of the average tourist. Young natives, of both genders, have found the tourists all too willing to have an exotic lover in this faraway country. We wear traditional dress and use the manners of the culture when interacting with the opposite sex, so anyone who knows us does not associate us with such behaviour. But whenever we go into tourist sections, we are approached by those who make their living that way. That just makes us feel disgusted with the tourists and we have very little to do with the other white people that we see in those places.
They do not really associate us with the slave trade. If they bring it up at all, it is only as a calm discussion of past history. That probably has something to do with the fact that as a former British colony, they early witnessed the British Army fighting the slave trade. There are other reasons: the tribes themselves were heavily involved the trade; and there is still a slave caste existing within the tribes today. Slavery is banned of course, but those born into that caste are expected to take jobs that involve menial labour, and the caste mindset is only changing gradually.
Here, at least, I have never seen any resentment displayed towards white people for a trade that was outlawed over 200 years ago. In fact, I believe much of the resentment towards whites in other parts of Africa are for more recent atrocities than the slave trade – Belgium’s rubber plantations in the Congo; ethnic cleansing in German-held Namibia; imposed tribalism in French-held Rwanda; the use of chemical weapons in the Rhodesian conflict; the bloody diamond trade in Central Africa; widespread exploitation by multinationals – the list is long.
Solar, It’ the old trick that if you tell a lie often enough people will eventually accept it as the truth. Case in point “Bush stole the 2000 election”. The truth is that he eventually won it in about 6 different ways.
Wandering Views 
From President Obama’s speech..
“There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often. ”
As a women we are taught how to stay safe. We are told that when we encounter a strange man to trust our instincts, play it safe, don’t take chances. Don’t stay alone with him any longer than you have to. Lately however I have found myself acting a little differently when the man is black. When I encounter a strange white man I feel free to do what I have to, to protect myself. I feel free to cross the street, lock the car door or get off the elevator. When I do these things I don’t fear being called a racist. I really doubt most even notice. But when the man is black I feel the need to be more subtle. To pretend I’m putting my elbow in the window sill so I can lock the door or that there is something across the street or on this floor that I need. In some cases I just take my chances because now to do what I did when the man was white makes me a racist. Women or any person shouldn’t have to put themselves in danger to be politically correct.
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As always, you nailed it.
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Anyone who continues to spout on about SYG and Zimmerman doesn’t know what he’s talking about and isn’t capable of reasoned discussion, only wanting to blather about his political pet peeves.
What’s it say about our frame of reference regarding economics when we hardly bat an eye at the notion that “the president…took (companies) out of bankruptcy”? Like that really could happen, like he really should have that power, like it really could work.
LikeLike
I won’t post the link because it is offensive but a group of Satanists has staged a Westboro-like protest against the nut jobs at Westboro Baptist.
I do believe Satan is real and working to gain souls, but I also think there is some humor in treating Westboro as they have treated others.
LikeLike
What, exactly, is supposed to be the racist element in the Zimmerman case? I still can’t pinpoint where the blatant racism is supposed to be. Making hay out of this case, where an argument for racism is only ever marginal, at most,cheapens those *actual* incidents of racism, which reasonable people are willing to admit do occur. The ranting about Zimmerman / Martin is counterproductive, exacerbating the problem.
LikeLike
Krauthammer’s take:
“I think it was a balancing act as a way to mitigate the fact that they are not going to pursue an unwinnable prosecution of Zimmerman.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/07/19/krauthammer-obama-re-injected-race-zimmerman-controversy
Here was one the more generous assessments from another conservative voice, this one in the religious blogosphere:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2013/07/19/obamas-speech-cynical-me-and-cynical-he/
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I am 55 years old. Blacks have received preferential treatment in college admissions, financial aid, government hiring, corporate hiring, government contracting and promotions for my entire lifetime. Among the beneficiaries have heen Obama, Michelle and Holder. Like the old Ann Richards joke, those people woke up on third and thought they hit a triple.
LikeLike
My mistake. I meant to say “my entire adult lifetime”.
LikeLike
In some ways I agree that the president’s remarks may have only fanned the flames on this issue.
But …
He made one point that I appreciated and thought was a good reminder to those of us scratching our heads over the (over)reaction to the verdict — and that is how this incident was viewed in a unique way by the black community; it was painful for black Americans in a way that perhaps it wasn’t for white Americans. I can see how that would be the case and thought that particular point was one that I and others who aren’t black might not always fully appreciate.
These things don’t happen in a cultural void, but in context — and in the context of the nation’s history of racial division, the incident looked much different to black Americans than it did to the rest of us.
In an objective sense, however. I don’t see where this incident was a case of racism or even racial profiling per se (though I still think Zimmerman was overzealous in his behavior).
But trying now to create & pursue a federal civil rights case (which is unjustified in terms of any real evidence according to most legal authorities) is a bad course to take.
LikeLike
I want to be fair in my following comments so keep that in mind when I say that:
ALL stereotypes are based on some degree of truth.
So while I will concede that there are redneck bubbas roaming the South spouting racists remarks, it also does no good for blacks people roaming cities attacking people and destroying property because they don’t like the outcome of a trial. Wal-Mart and the people in California had nothing to do with the outcome of the trial.
LikeLike
Donna, The most troubling part of this case was the way it was perceived by much (not all) of the black community, including Obama. Most (with notable exceptions like Charles Barkley) could not look at the case rationally. They refused to see that Trayvon’s poor behavior caused his own death.
LikeLike
Ricky, but I think to some degree it “played” that way because of what really is a collective consciousness coming out of the nation’s historic (much of it recent, some of it ongoing) racial struggles. So I can understand that somewhat, that groups of people will perceive some of these things differently based on that identity. It was much more personal for black Americans, right or wrong.
I agree, though, that much of the discussion of this case has bordered on the overly emotional and even irrational (and the media has been quick to frame it so often in terms of race). While it may have “appeared” to be a race case, the facts simply didn’t really bear that assumption out.
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So this was funny. I saw it shared by a friend on FB (originally posted by a group called The Republican Revolution):
“Breaking News: George Zimmerman changes his name to Ben Ghazi so that the Obama Administration and mainstream media will never mention him again.”
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Here’s another take from a Black woman who was mentored by the same woman who mentored me 35 years earlier. A graduate of the USNA who served in the Marines, she is wise above her age:
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There is much that is good in the article Michelle posted, but something is missing. The sad fact is that young black males commit violent crimes at a rate that is much higher than any other group. Blacks need to understand that this behavior by a significant portion of their young males causes other people (including the police) to “profile” them. I taught my son to treat each person as an individual. I have taken a carload full of young black males on a 400 mile weeklong trip to a basketball camp, and we had a great time. It was interesting to oberve the other patrons every time we entered a restaurant. However, I also taught my son that it is generally safer to live in areas that are not heavily black. Unless I see a change in the behavior of young black males, I will teach my grandchildren the same lesson.
LikeLike
Something else that could be added to Michelle’s linked article is that it would be wrong to assume the only victims of police harassment and abuse of power are blacks and other minorities. The injustice may be worse for those demographics, but the fact that plenty of white folks are abused by power loving cops indicates part of the problem comes from different motivations. Google it. And Will Grigg, a black guy with writing style, is another place to start research.
LikeLike
I would like to ask the white men on here, have you ever had someone lock their doors or cross the street because of you? Back in the early 80’s my brother, who had long hair then and my cousin who had long and a beard, stopped to assist a lady whose car had broken down. She locked her door and wouldn’t let them help her. We laughed at them and told them is was the “hippy” hair cuts. I have also felt watched in stores especially when I was a teenager and when my son was small.
LikeLike
KBells, When I took five teenage black ballplayers into restaurants, I saw the eyes on us. The boys were very well-behaved and the looks soon disappeared.
On several occasions, I have been the only “gringo” in a large group. Once my car broke down at night on the Interstate and the only local business was a Mexican-Ametican dance hall. I got some very suspicious looks until the manager announced I wasn’t with the INS.
Another time my son and I were in the mall in Brownsville, Texas. My son (who is and looks partially Hispanic) whispered, “Dad, You are the only white person in this entire mall”. I looked around and sure enough, all I saw were brown faces and they were all staring right at me. Again, once everyone understood that I wasn’t there to deport anyone, I encountered no hostility.
The only places where I really sensed hostility was in Mexico and in black neighborhoods in the North. I understood some of the reason for the hostility, kept a low profile and left ASAP.
All of us will be put in situations where people will prejudge us. The important thing is not to confirm their fears.
LikeLike
My son said that Zimmerman should move to Laredo, Texas which is between 95% and 100% Hispanic for three reasons:
1. He would blend in perfectly;
2. There are no blacks there to seek revenge; and
3. It is the one place in the US where people wouldn’t know who he is. That is the funny part. Ninety percent of my wife’s relatives would have no idea who he was or what he had been involved in.
LikeLike
In Annandale, we lived a block & a half from the main street that went through town.
One evening, I walked up to the drug store, I was wearing grungy stuff and must have looked unusually bad. I was waiting at a traffic light, then it changed. As I started across, a woman in the car that had just stopped reached over and locked her door.
i didn’t blame her.
My car automatically locks all the doors when I put it into gear. The truck doesn’t.
LikeLike
Chas. 😀 A hobo Burt Lancaster?
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Donna, that is a great one
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People keep asking if Trayvon had been white and Zimmerman black what would have happened. O don’t know ask Rodrick Scott.
http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490926/jury-finds-roderick-scott-not-guilty/
I know there are some differences. Christopher was caught red handed committing a crime, but also Mr. Scot pulled the gun on him before he was threatened, so it may even out.
LikeLike
KBells, That is an interesting article.
Chas, I put on my hobo suit when I want to look at new cars without being disturbed by salesmen.
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We hit the locks every time we enter a city neighbourhood of which we have no knowledge. We learned to do that after a stoned-looking kid tried to open our side door while we were stopped at a traffic light in inner-city Indianapolis. He happened to be black but it was the fact he was going for our door handle which alarmed us.
I lived for a while in the inner-city of a large manufacturing centre. There was a huge minority/immigrant population of nearly every national, ethnic and religious background. Most of the panhandlers/addicts/mentally ill that I would encounter on the street were white and obviously spoke English as their first language. In fact I only recall two black panhandlers and none of any other minority. The prostitutes I saw on the street were all of Caucasian appearance. I once witnessed the arrest of a young man which involved a lot of police. He was white and so were the women who stood on the other side of the street and screamed profane insults at the police, accusing them of brutal treatment. Profiles never fit individual experience.
LikeLike
Where is the alleged racism in the Zimmerman case? Who seriously makes the argument there was blatant racism at any point? Can any race baiters here help a cracker understand?
LikeLike
It’s largely assumed and not based on hard facts, as you suggest, Solar.
I saw a Democrat consultant interviewed yesterday who conceded that, based on his past, Zimmerman appeared to be very comfortable interacting with people of different races.
On the night of the incident, It was the dispatcher who asked about Trayvon’s race, Zimmerman never brought it up until then (and he sounded as if he wasn’t quite sure when he answered — can’t remember his words, but it was either “I ‘think’ he’s black” or “He ‘looks’ black”). I think that’s why the legal experts on both sides acknowledge that a federal civil rights case has little chance.
But because the victim was black and the perpetrator was, ahem, white Hispanic 🙄 , the racial component has simply been read into it by many. And that’s really unfortunate.
That said, one of my fb friends (who’s very liberal & somewhat emotional, but usually has more sense than this) posted something last night about how there’s nothing wrong with wearing a hoodie — but there is something very wrong about wearing a white robe and hood.
Huh? For the life of me I couldn’t figure out her point — other than that she was apparently suggesting that those who acquitted Zimmerman (or who agreed with the verdict) were KKK sympathizers?
LikeLike
On the historical divided between black and white and how it affects perception of current events – I am currently experiencing a very different perspective, which may be beneficial to this discussion, as a white Westerner in an African country that has very old connections with the slave trade to the Americas. There are many layers.
On the surface, having light skin is perceived as a sign of wealth. Not only the European raiders and colonists (and now, tourists), but also the Berber and Middle Eastern merchants who have come here for millennia have contributed to that impression. Sadly, the women often use dangerous chemicals to lighten their skin in order to attract husbands. I am naturally very pale, so I get remarks on my complexion and assumed wealth. That I just find amusing.
The US is viewed as the promised land, as it has long been visible as a military power and aid source, so people tend to view the mostly American team as an inexhaustible source of funds. It is a cultural practice to ask one’s friends and neighbours for what you need or want, so they are treating us as they would their fellow citizens. Only they are more aggressive with us, because they know we probably have what they want. That is annoying, and it requires love and patience to deal with each request properly.
They also view white people as very morally permissive. The media programming has influenced this, but even more influential so is the behaviour of the average tourist. Young natives, of both genders, have found the tourists all too willing to have an exotic lover in this faraway country. We wear traditional dress and use the manners of the culture when interacting with the opposite sex, so anyone who knows us does not associate us with such behaviour. But whenever we go into tourist sections, we are approached by those who make their living that way. That just makes us feel disgusted with the tourists and we have very little to do with the other white people that we see in those places.
They do not really associate us with the slave trade. If they bring it up at all, it is only as a calm discussion of past history. That probably has something to do with the fact that as a former British colony, they early witnessed the British Army fighting the slave trade. There are other reasons: the tribes themselves were heavily involved the trade; and there is still a slave caste existing within the tribes today. Slavery is banned of course, but those born into that caste are expected to take jobs that involve menial labour, and the caste mindset is only changing gradually.
Here, at least, I have never seen any resentment displayed towards white people for a trade that was outlawed over 200 years ago. In fact, I believe much of the resentment towards whites in other parts of Africa are for more recent atrocities than the slave trade – Belgium’s rubber plantations in the Congo; ethnic cleansing in German-held Namibia; imposed tribalism in French-held Rwanda; the use of chemical weapons in the Rhodesian conflict; the bloody diamond trade in Central Africa; widespread exploitation by multinationals – the list is long.
LikeLike
Solar, It’ the old trick that if you tell a lie often enough people will eventually accept it as the truth. Case in point “Bush stole the 2000 election”. The truth is that he eventually won it in about 6 different ways.
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