64 thoughts on “News/Politics 12-1-12”

  1. Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? … Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. 2nd Corinthians 6:14-17.

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  2. Interesting verse for a political section — how does this verse apply in a pluralistic democratic society? Is this verse intended for such application? It is also Paul who wrote:

    13 Every [a]person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except [b]from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore [c]whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for [d]good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

    and Peter who wrote:

    11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

    13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

    18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

    22 “He committed no sin,
    and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
    23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

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  4. CB raises the key question of how Christians ought to associate or relate in a genuinely pluralist society. .

    I thought about this while reading a remarkable interview in the WSJ today,The Crisis of American Self-Government Harvey Mansfield, Harvard’s ‘pet dissenter,’ on the 2012 election, the real cost of entitlements, and why he sees reason for hope..

    Prof. Mansfield speaks of being a conservative in a very liberal state and even more liberal Harvard; he has managed this with a certain grace and salutary urbanity. The following concluding paragraphs give a good flavor of the interview:

    Nor should flexibility mean abandoning major components of the conservative agenda—including cultural values—in response to a momentary electoral defeat. “Democrats have their cultural argument, which is the attack on the rich and the uncaring,” Mr. Mansfield says. “So Republicans need their cultural arguments to oppose the Democrats’, to say that goodness or justice in our country is not merely the transfer of resources to the poor and vulnerable. We have to take measures to teach the poor and vulnerable to become a little more independent and to prize independence, and not just live for a government check. That means self-government within each self, and where are you going to get that except with morality, responsibility and religion?”

    So is it still possible to pull back from the brink of America’s Europeanization? Mr. Mansfield is optimistic. “The material for recovery is there,” he says. “Ambition, for one thing. I teach at a university where all the students are ambitious. They all want to do something with their lives.” That is in contrast to students he has met in Europe, where “it was depressing to see young people with small ambitions, very cultivated and intelligent people so stunted.” He adds with a smile: “Our other main resource is the Constitution.”

    In my view Christians need to fully associate with opposing groups in America, while carrying on a civil as well as frank and robust debate with them. E Pluribus Unum.

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  5. I see in today’s Times-News that Congress is doing something about the budget. They are considering eliminating the dollar bill. They estimate that making coins rather than paper, they will save $4.4 billion over 30 years. My quick calculation says that’s about $150 million/year.
    The end of the deficit!

    They tried that once with the Carter quarters. That is the dollar coins with the picture of the lady on them. Nobody liked them.

    I got an e-mail urging me to reject them because they didn’t have “In God We Trust” in them. I have a coin and it does have that on it. Albeit, very small lettering.
    I haven’t tried to pass my coin on to anyone.

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  6. The Susan B. Anthony dollars Chas? It was because they were so small and confused for a quarter. If they go back to dollar coins they need to be larger. This will create some problems in banking but it should be somewhat easy to fix. Cash drawers only have 5 coin compartments and 5 bill compartments. Doing away with the dollar bill won’t effect the bill compartments–they will just shift to 5,10,20, 50 and 100’s. It will cause some trouble with the coin compartments for pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, fifty cent pieces, and dollars, although looking you just don’t see that many fifty cent pieces any more and they have long wanted to do away with the penny.

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  8. Drivesguy, one of my friends posted something on Facebook recently about Hypocrisy being Liberals wanting the government to stay out of their bedrooms and sex lives (more graphic terms were used) yet demanding the government pay for their birth control and abortions.

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  11. The US recently started minting the Sacajawea dollar coins with a goldish tint to them. They are a little smaller than a quarter and I like them. Now they are doing all the presidents as a way to get people to collect them. Interesting, but confusing as there will be 40 or so different faces on them. Unlike the US state quarters, which had the same face but different backs.

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  12. Michelle, many thanks for linking to that excellent Last article on the demographics of single people in America. He certainly makes an excellent case that the single cohort was far more influential than the Hispanic one in the recent election.

    This problem of a growing single population is of crucial importance. Charles Murray in his recent book, Coming Apart is, particularly concerned with the growing number of rudderless single working-class white men in America and the many single women with children who have been left alone and destitute by these men.

    I had trouble reading the small print in your link and found a more easily read link here.

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  13. I tried collecting the U.S. Presidents quarters but they are very hard to find. Even the bank admitted that they seldom had any. I ended up giving the few I had to the Kid’s on my son’s baseball team for home runs and double plays.

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  14. As for the verse, it will not be long before many occupations will be closed to devote Christians. Same sex marriage will close many occupations involving marriage, weddings or adoption and maybe even public school teaching and abortion will close a lot of medical occupations.

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  16. Drives

    That’s funny, your observation on Susan B. Anthony. The thing about liberals is that they can admire her stance on suffrage while still disagreeing with her on abortion. It strikes me that one of the main impediments to agreement nowadays are right wing conservatives who cannot separate issues where there is agreement from those where this is none. Hence Ricky can blithely say, oh it was the Senator from Vermont, so I disagree …. that’s not a good in a democracy.

    Sails

    I like your take on association with robust and frank discussion — it’s a useful approach. While there may not be agreement on all things with secular folks like me, there can be enough discussion for understanding and perhaps even mutual accommodation on most things and that is the key to retaining a pluralistic democracy.

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  17. You mean the way Liberals decide someone is a racist or a bigot because they object to one minority appointment or ride by a rock with a bad word on it and totally dismiss a life’s work with no evidence of racism.

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  18. CB if Liberals are so tolerant of Susan B Anthony who abhorred abortion why are they not tolerant of Democrats like Randal Terry? Why did the Liberal Democrats allow him to speak at the Democratic Convention? After all he was on the democratic ballot.

    Liberals are two faced. They want you and I to be tolerant of them and allow them to be intolerant of us.

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  19. Actually, a number of prominent liberals were pro-life in the early years of the debate (including, I believe, Al Gore and Jesse Jackson). Then they changed, of course. But it always struck me that a strong “liberal” case could be made for the pro-life position.

    Unfortunately, it lost out to the stronger, louder case being made for (essentially) sexual freedom at all costs.

    I know, there are exceptions in cases where the mother’s life is endangered, rape, etc.; I got that.

    But with widespread availability to reliable (and, yes, affordable) contraception being the norm for decades now, *most* abortions, I’d argue, are made out of a “choice” by the woman that it’s just not a good time or the right circumstance in which to be pregnant.

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  20. Back from golf to see that CB comprehended my application of 2nd Corinthians 6 perfectly.

    Regarding Senator Leahy, Vermont is the anti-Texas. It is small, cold, socialist and heathen. Texas remains large, hot, capitalist and relatively God-fearing.

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  22. Drives

    Is Randall Terry a leader in the democratic party in any way? Why should he have time on the podium by merely demanding it and how is it intolerant to say no. Does he have a right to speak at something he is not organizing? Not all democrats or republicans for that matter who are on the ballot speak at party events — it isn’t a right.

    I know alot of liberals and alot of conservatives. What I find is that individuals behave in an individual manner. There are some intolerant liberals and there are some intolerant conservatives. There are even some intolerant moderates as odd as that may sound. Each group has their own misbehaving folks.

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  23. Drives, I see Kevin Durant, Kendrick Perkins and the rest of the Oklahoma City Thunder building bridges between Texas and Oklahoma. There are a lot of Thunder fans south of the Red River. I’ve gone to OKC several times in the last couple of years. It is a very wholesome place. The culture reminds me of Lubbock or San Angelo.

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  25. CB I seem to remember the Republicans some time ago allowing a Lady speak at their convention who supported abortion. That is tolerance CB.

    I stand by my assertion. Liberals are two faced hypocrites.

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  29. When I was a child, we went to Capitol Hill Baptist Church. What is your church? My wife wants to see her Thunder play at home, and a Sunday trip may work well for us if we can find replacements for ourselves at our church.

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  31. Yes, Drives, former Gov of Hawaii who was running for Senator at the time, I believe. She is not all like Randall Terry. If I were organizer for a political convention either conservative or liberal, I would not allow Terry on stage. Too much of a chance that he is going to go off on a rant that would turn a large number of voters off — that’s politics.

    And Drives, pretty sure it wouldn’t matter what I write here because your view is your view no matter what else you may read or hear.

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  38. Both left and right like to accuse each other of hypocrisy over gov’t intervention. However, the salient point is the right advocates an ideology of minimal gov’t intervention. The left does not thus I would think the hypocrisy charge sticks closer to the right. In part this reveals the internal struggles of the Republican “coalition” between social and economic conservatives. The latter advocates minimal gov’t interference whereas the former would like to use the gov’t hammer as a moral tool. The Democratic coalition doesn’t suffer from the same internal contradiction in respect to the role of gov’t.

    Looking at the contraception issue. Clearly, the Democratic party believes the gov’t should intervene in health care — to what extent is there only internal disagreement; single payer, managed competition, contraception or not, etc. Personally, I don’t see the rationale behind including or not including birth control. I favour it only because there are legitimate medical reasons to take the pill and I hate to have the state micromanage and decide when health care is legitimate. Let doctors and patient decide and the gov’t pay. I will note the hypocrisy of the Congress whose plan includes Viagra and whose members then support no contraception on moral grounds.

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  39. CB, Just as conservatives are held to a higher standard on family values because this is something they claim to stand for, I hold liberals to a higher standard on tolerance because this is what they claim to stand for.

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  40. Sails — Read the Mansfield article, he reminds me of Bloom — articulate, intelligent, well read and an extremely cranky old man still fighting the ghosts of the sixties.

    Michelle — the key demographic is urban vs rural. Single is a quality exhibited in urban living. Its no secret that the urban vote is generally left of center. There’s nothing complicated about it — left of center policies make sense for urban living. As America becomes more urban and suburbia exhibits more urban like needs, the vote will shift. Only gerrymandering and a voting system which weighs rural votes more has prevented the shift from occurring already.

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  41. The abortion debate in the US has become extremely polarized and thus its no surprise the lack of tolerance on either side for differences of opinion. I’m always curious why the pro-life movement originally hooked their wagon to the Republicans — their economic policies don’t support children or families. The Catholic vote was originally heavily democratic because the Catholics demand a complete pro-life position — no abortion, no capital punishment and social programs to help children and families.

    An interesting part of the Canadian abortion discussion is the refusal to discuss it in part because of a desire to avoid American-style polarization.

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  43. I think you’re right, HRW. The other salient demographic is socio-economic; the more educated tend to have more carefully planned children. I mean that in the sense that most of my friends gave a lot of thought to how many children they could afford and waited until the timing was as close to right to plan their pregnancies.

    I guess that reflects the old canard, “those who fail to plan, plan to fail?”

    San Francisco, for example, has the lowest percentage of children per square mile of any large US city (and possibly anywhere in the US; I can’t remember where I saw that stat).

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  44. “their economic policies don’t support children or families.”
    How do you figure that? Families think of the good of the next generation. Democrats don’t.

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  45. HRW, Prof. Mansfieldat at age 80 remains a highly respected conservative professor of political science at Harvard. He has had to limit the number of students who flock to his courses. One of his many ptoteges is William Kristol founder of the Weekly Standard. His books on Machiavelli and the American Constitution will likely be classics. He is far from the cranky old man that you imagine him to be.

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  46. Tychicus, Are you still supporting those old guys who have to miss games to rest? You should convert. Since November 6th, many of us have been completely unable to watch any news. The Thunder have been a great diversion. I have also become a fan of Avery Johnson’s Nets and James Harden’s Rockets for those days when the Thunder are not playing. Since I am watching/reading no news, Obama could raise my tax rate to 100% and I would never know about it until I sit down to do my taxes in April, 2014.

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  47. RW: You may not have seen it, but I had asked you sometime earlier what you thought of the Harden trade. That had to have been discouraging – I don’t think the Thunder will be quite the same come playoff time. I’m afraid the best two teams are playing tonight in SA. The Spurs have improved their defense and are very deep. Having said that, Mr. Stern doesn’t like Pop very much…

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  48. Tychicus, Mr Stern and the socialist owners did great harm to the Thunder with the new salary cap and luxury tax in the new Collective bargaining agreement. That tax caused the trade. Personally, I hated to lose Harden because he was part of the team we had watched grow up together and he is a great player and personality. However, the Thunder are better than ever. Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are only 23 or 24 and they are all much improved over last year. Their work ethic is contagious. Hasheem Thabeet was a complete bust for his other teams. Kevin Martin says he now seems like a different person (he has developed a Republican work ethic) and he has become a solid contributor.

    Nevertheless, I greatly respect Memphis and San Antonio and will watch their game during commercials of tonight’s Thunder game.

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  49. Michelle — migration changes the family patterns. A single person moving to the city has new considerations to think in about in terms of family and marriage. Because its a solitary decision with very little family input or support, some put off the decision to as late as possible. The number of children also comes into play. Despite religious and cultural traditions, the birth rate is always lower in an urban area. Without nearby extended family, most couples tend to have no more than two kids. And without family help, couples frequently rely on gov’t to regulate daycare, sports, camps, clubs, etc to ensure their child grows up safe.

    Conservative Muslims from small villages in Morocco or Turkey will typically have as many children as possible — at least six. However, within one generation in Europe the birth rate begins to lower and by the second generation its as low as any other urban couple (about 1.7). Doug Saunders makes this point in the Myth of the Muslim tide. Here’s my review ;

    http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/441786355

    Immigrant families in my school typically have 4 to 8 children but if the parents immigrated here before having children its closer to 2-4 kids. Their daughters tell me no more than two for them. Mothers have mentioned that they would do it differently if they started their family in Canada simply because of the lack of family support.

    Sails — some of my best profs were cranky old men of the left and right. One can learn from them and respect their intelligence but one also needs to understand their point of view and the context from which their opinion emerges. You need to keep a critical stance even when reading whether it be Chomsky or Bloom

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  51. RW: Well then, I look forward to the battles! Though very intense, I’m sure they will be much friendlier than Elephants vs. Donkeys. 🙂

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  55. The lack of any abortion law in Canada is in part due to a desire to avoid American style polarization. In general most Cdns would accept some limitations but at the same time most Cdns want the decision to reside with the woman and her doctor. Thus, some limitations could be passed but not to the extent most pro-life advocates would be happy with.

    The Cdn conservative party needs to secure 37-40% in order to maintain a majority gov’t in our three party system. It will never get higher than 40 and risks alienating some of its voters if it raises the abortion issue. Even if it only loses 2-3% that will be enough to bring the party into minority or opposition territory. Thus, the conservative establishment keeps its social conservative backbenchers on a short leash.

    Personally I am as left as they come but I have no problem with some limits to abortion. It may be a sad state of affairs but its a political loss for the conservative gov’t and if they don’t touch it, I doubt anyone else will.

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  58. Supporting the right to kill babies is one of the Democrats’ strongest beliefs. It is as important to them as encouraging sloth and almost as important as promoting perversion and uneconomic forms of energy production.

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  60. Casey is a good example of what I mentioned earlier — the consistent Catholic pro-lifer who formed the backbone of FDRs New Deal coalition. A position I think many on the pro-choice can (or should) respect as opposed to the what they call the “pro-fetus” position of the Republican party.

    I suspect the 92 convention had little need or desire for him to speak as Clinton was attempting to build a new “brand” of Democrat which was more centrist and less union/welfare liberal. Given Bob Casey Jr. now sits in the Senate with similar views as his father the opposition was all that adamant but rathervtypical political messaging to “brand” the Clinton vision of the Democratic party — a brand different than the traditional New Deal coalition.

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  61. Thanks AJ for setting up this site and thanks to all the commenters. I am not proud of my comment that was the 10,000th. Until my attitude improves, I am not going to make political comments.

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