Good morning.
It’s time to celebrate Thanksgiving Eve!
Sorry, but I must inform you all we’ve been forced to retreat to the night before to celebrate since WalMart, Target, and BestBuy have turned “Black Friday” into “Are you kidding me, Thanksgiving Thursday now too Day!?” Also, it turns out, a shopping day. All calendars will reflect the change next year. We did however get some concessions in the surrender talks. We get to keep the food at least. And football.
But seriously, or not,
What if the Grinch didn’t really steal the presents, but the actual holiday itself? What if he just took the whole day and turned it into something else entirely? Would it look like this?
Or maybe like Christmas displays without THE Christmas Story displayed? Just change it all together. Impossible you say? I’m not so sure. One thing I do know is I don’t much care for Grinchs.
Yes, I’m waxing philosophical this morning. Or I need coffee. It’s one of them.
🙂
Wandering Views 
There used to be a store in Northern Virginia called Zayer. They advertised that they would be open for shopping on Thanksgiving.
A K-Mart is there now. I don’t know if anyone shopped on Thanksgiving. We never did.
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Chas,
If you hurry, you can go grab 100! on yesterdays Daily Thread. It’s sitting at 99 right now. You’re the early bird, so go get it.
And good morning! as well.
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I do not shop Black Friday and I will not shop Thanksgiving Day. I did buy two Christmas presents yesterday. Someone is getting the book How to Babysit Grandpa and there was a wallet he kept looking at Sunday. I have one more thing he NEEDS and he will be done.
Baby Girl has been working on her list for quite a while now.
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Too late. Grrr, I need cream in my coffee…. But g’morning anyway. ;–)
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How many days until Christmas?
Just in case you needed to know, that’s a special website whose only purpose is to be a countdown… 🙄 My wife thinks it’s great. 😀
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Well the machine’s part is probably at the repair shop now. The boss got up at “dark-thirty” as he put it, and drove three hours to get the thing there at 7:00am.
I expect I’ll hear shortly whether it can be fixed or not. I hope so. I’d hate to bet the cause of a $10k bill right now. It’s bad enough to cost us $3k for the repair.
Sigh.
At least I can relax now that the solution is somewhat resolved. It was the not knowing what to do that was the worst.
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Dark-thirty. I like that.
I had to get up at that time today — early shift.
I wonder how many Thanksgiving Day dinners/dessert times/other plans will be affected by at least some portions of some families wanting to hit the stores on Thursday? They’re already lining up in tents outside the Best Buy stores out here in California.
We’re weird.
The cat lost her collar in the little fight she had last night with the neighbor cat. I had an extra collar to put on her, but I’m hoping to find her other one this morning out in the front yard where they were fighting. I can also feel a small scratch/scab on the top of her head, but no apparent serious injuries.
For a girl cat she sure can be ornery.
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An alternative fuel that makes sense.
The Times-News today reports that the county is taking used cooking oil at the recycling center. They will also, “reimburse companies for donations”.
That is useful. Cooking oil disposal clogs drains, so recycling is helpful there.
But the best thing is that it can be made to run diesel engines.
Several years ago, I met a man in Durham who used cooking oil from restaurants to run his truck. He said the restaurants were glad to get rid of it. He strained it a couple of times and burned it in his truck. He said that it had a “cooking” smell, but the trukk runs well on it.
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I really don’t have as much shopping to do. Both sides of the family have now agreed to only buys gifts for kids and Mom. It got to the point where every one was asking for gift cards. It was like swapping twenty dollar bills. Anyway kids are fun to shop for.
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Donna, are sure the fight wasn’t over the collar. I think the other cat mugged her for it.
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My wife likes Native American Jewelry. I will probably go down to a place here in Oklahoma City that specializes in Sterling Silver and Turquoise Native American Jewelry. I am thinking a bracelet to go with her Necklace.
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People started lining up on Monday at Best Buy and I thought, “You know, if you went to work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, you probably wouldn’t need to shop the sale.”
I’m going shopping today. I need a phone that works.
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Anyway, the best time to shop in the state of Alabama will be Saturday between 3:30 and 7:00. You will have the stores all to yourself, if the clerks are paying attention. Kim knows what I’m talking about.
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I haven’t started thinking about Christmas presents yet.
Elvera already has everything.
Me too. I may buy season tickets to the Playhouse for 2013. I don’t know what the shows are yet.
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Good morning all.
We are so blessed that the biggest hardship in traveling to my brother’s for Thanksgiving means carrying our covered dishes as we walk two streets over 😉 And that no one in the gathering of 20 or so will be shopping on Thursday or Friday. Though some of us may go surfing together depending on the waves. Sometimes the line-up is thin on Turkey Day.
I seriously do not get workers protesting having to work on holidays. Airport workers, Walmart employees, Macaroni Grill cooks, NFL players, you didn’t think that might happen when you took the job?
Adios
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“I seriously do not get workers protesting having to work on holidays. Airport workers, Walmart employees, Macaroni Grill cooks, NFL players, you didn’t think that might happen when you took the job?”
Nor on Sundays for that matter. Who needs that one day of rest thing?
Why acknowledge that there might be some things (Thanksgiving? Christmas?) more important than commerce and the pursuit of Dollar Almighty.
And by all means, if you take a job, you CLEARLY give up all right to complain or protest; you simply MUST accept whatever terms your employer offers at any given point in time.
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KBells 🙂 Maybe I interrupted the mugging in process (they were crouched in a stand-off last night when I shooed the orange cat away).
This morning I found Annie’s collar lying on the grass amid tufts and tufts and tufts of cat hair (mostly orange).
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Who is Anonymous? I agree with cbadwjh, who didn’t say anything about workers “giving up rights,” but only about those who complain about things they signed up to do in the first place. That’s very CLEARLY the point, right? Who would disagree with it? Some people like to go to Walmart or restaurants on Thanksgiving or Christmas. How do they fit into that (ridiculous) “Dollar Almighty” theme?
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Daughter does not have a husband or children, so every year she is working Christmas so those who do can take the day off. There is a cost for people needing health care at that time. There are other necessary jobs. But we have also decided that there are many needed opportunities and somebody has to pay for it. Being up front with your potential employer that you do not work Sundays or holidays may mean no job for a while.
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Morning all. A couple of thoughts from last night’s discussion:
-Frisian is the language most closely related to English, though you have to go back to Old English. The Saxons brought it to the Isles.
-My wife is related to Tommy Herr, a baseball player form the 80s. He is her second cousin, thought the two have never met.
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I have no problem with those jobs that require someone to be there 24/7, like hospitals, law enforcement, fire fighters, etc. But I see absolutely no reason for most retail stores to be open on holidays and Sundays. Grocery stores are about the only ones I can see needing to open. But everyone has at least one other day during the week to get the shopping done, don’t they? Especially those who do not have a job. But that is my opinion and should not be mandated by law.
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“Being up front with your potential employer that you do not work Sundays or holidays may mean no job for a while.”
That is the problem I have now. With a young son and a Husband who is gone for days at a time I can’t work nights and weekends.
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When I was in the Air Force, some guys, Jews and others who didn’t celebrate Christmas, volunteered for KP and other duties to relieve some who wanted to take leave for Christmas.
The favors were always returned.
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Peter L, there are a lot of people in the world. There could be any number of legitimate reasons for those merchants to be open for business. For the record, I’m a strict sabbatarian. I subscribe to what the Westminster standards have to say about the 4th commandment.
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“only about those who complain about things they signed up to do in the first place”
You are assuming that taking a job is signing up to work holidays and Sundays. For many years, that was not the norm – businesses were closed on those days.
It’s sad that this is no longer the norm. The “Dollar Almighty”, however, is more important to those businesses. There are people willing to shop, so the business stays open to get those dollars.
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Anonymous: Sure, I’m assuming that taking a job entails knowing what you’re getting into. Do you allege Walmart *hides* the fact they stay open on certain holidays? Do you think most employers do that? Wouldn’t it behove a prospective employee to find that stuff out beforehand and, if he doesn’t want to work certain days, make that clear to his prospective employer?
“There are people willing to shop,” so business do those folks the service of providing what they want. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
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“It’s sad that this is no longer the norm. The “Dollar Almighty”, however, is more important to those businesses. ”
And yet businesses like Hobby Lobby and Chick-fila who refuse to do this because of their Christian convictions are boycotted and penalized when other aspects of their convictions become inconvenient to some of the same people who think they should care about the freedoms of the employees. Make up your mind folks. Do you want mindless corporations with no rights to freedom of speech and religion and no obligation to the freedoms of others or do you want them run by real people with a conscience and right to run a business according to that conscience. .
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Thanks to those who answered my question the other day, & gave advice. Much appreciated.
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No kidding, kBells. It’s hard to follow these folks. They expect businesses to be run juuuuust so. Has to be juuuust the way they insist. It’s not enough to employ people and provide a regular paycheck and, often, medical insurance and time off and other perks, but employers should tailor their business hours around the convictions of Anonymous people. And while they’re at it, they should throw in free birth control pills, because that’s the role of employers, isn’t it?
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Some airline employees are planning on protesting that they have to work on a holiday. Hope my nephew who spent last Thanksgiving in Afghanistan can get to his folks place without putting these employees being put out too much.
I liked back in the day when everything was closed on Sunday. It made for some great family Sundays (my folks were atheists so Sunday was family day). But in a pluralistic society it became impractical. Could you imagine what would happen this weekend if all gas stations were closed on Sunday? Jews celebrate their day on Saturday, Muslims on Friday. I do think it is ridiculous for stores to start Black Friday on Thursday, but if you work in retail or restaurants you should realize it comes with the territory.
I never hear police, fire or military complaining about the same issue. Of course they work it out by rotations and senority so that one year you’re on, one year you’re off. The young kid I saw on TV complaining about having to work on a holiday reeked of a sense of entitlement more than really wanting to be home with mama.
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First World problems, cbadwjh. If someone else has it better, there’s room for complaining.
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Happy day before Thanksgiving! I’m out in the Texas Hill Country with my girls. Scott is joining us later today. So far, it’s been a nice visit. The cousins, all of whom are significantly older than my youngest, have been including her in their escapades. She is ecstatic. It makes me happy to see her so happy.
I liked it better when most everything was closed on Sunday as well. I refuse to fight the crowds on Black Friday, but I do sometimes get gifts online.
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I agree that employees should not be complaining about having to work on a holiday, especially if they work for a company that serves the public.
BUT, I also think it would be nice for companies to close down for Thanksgiving & Christmas, unless their business is essential to the public (such as the airlines).
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I hear where you’re coming from, Karen O. I basically agree. But I also think a lot of employees are happy to work holidays. They’re happy for the paycheck. A lot of companies pay overtime for work done on holidays, and many of those same companies pay the day *as* a holiday, so employees at those companies receive a coupble bonus. I’m speaking from experience, there.
It’s likely that a lot of these companies start off by taking volunteers for holiday work, and only if and when they need to, do they mandate other employees work those days. That, also, has been my experience. Obviously, there are exceptions.
It can also happen that emergencies come up and you need a part for your plumbing or your car or whatever. I don’t begrudge companies staying open to provide those shopping options.
I was associated with a church a few years back where the pastor owned a laundromat. He kept the business open on Sundays. It didn’t even have to be staffed. Some members of the congregation were considering objecting to the session and presbytery about it, as they felt it was out of accord with the denomination’s standards (the aforementioned Westminster standards). I agreed with those members of the congregation, although I didn’t have any say in the matter as I wasn’t a member myself. I didn’t (and don’t) think a laundromat provides services that qualify as acts of necessity or mercy, and, therefore, any Christian who operates such a business on the Lord’s Day ought to be subject to church discipline.
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That should be “double bonus” in my first paragraph. This site is kind of clunky–my gravitar wouldn’t move out of the way of those words so I couldn’t proof that sentence before posting.
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New Guy I Work For walked through about a quarter of one and asked if we wanted to go ahead and start our meeting so we could go home early. I have been to the store, have the cornbread in the oven, three turkey legs boiling, and celery and onions in the cast iron skillet. I just have to make the spinach/artichoke casserole and I am done.
I do need Hubs to call on his way home so he can pick up one teensy little thing I forgot at the grocery store.
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Happy Thanksgiving.
The recent incursion of the retail world to what is essentially America’s biggest family holiday demonstrates to me the incompatibility of free market ideology and family values. There’s nothing wrong with free market economics and its often the best means to produce and deliver a product but its not the best means for family values. The market should be a tool not an overarching principle.
I was surprised by Walmart’s decision as they seem to have enough difficulties with their employees at the moment. As this is the first year Walmart opens on Thanksgiving day itself I don’t think anyone working there knew what they signed up for. Sure, if you work in essential service — fire, police, health, etc — you can expect holiday especially in the early years but not department store workers.
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Employees know what they’re signing up for, in this case, at least, whether the employer is up front about holiday schedules or not. I’m sure Walmart made no promises to applicants that they would never work on holidays.
There’s nothing inherent to “free market ideology” that is opposed to family values, unless you want to imbue “free market ideology” with stuff that isn’t inherent to “fre market ideology.”
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We are all free to shop or not to shop on Thanksgiving. We are all free to work for a company open on Thanksgiving or not work for a company that opens on Thanksgiving. I personally seldom eat out on Sundays or shop on Holidays because I don’t like to be the reason someone else has to.
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Since Walmart never opened on Thanksgiving before, the employees could make a reasonable assumption.
The market concerns itself only with the production and distribution of goods and services nothing more. It does not concern itself with holidays, the sabbath, family illness, birth, death etc. Its a tool we use for goods and services unfortunately we have a tendency to allow the tool to control us.
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Chas,
When I was a kid in Massachusetts, there used to be a department store called Zayre. That must be the same one, right? Man, that’s a blast from the past. And we used to have Lechmere, too. Did you have that one?
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Several of us reporters have been known to scramble to sign up for holiday shifts where I work — it’s great money and, if you’ve not got out-of-town guests to entertain or other big plans, it’s easy to plan festivities around what typically is a shortened shift that brings in twice the money on your next paycheck.
I don’t know as I’ve ever worked Christmas day (we do have several Jewish staffers who typically volunteer for that day, though they also beat each other out sometimes); but I’ve worked at least one Thanksgiving day and virtually every other holiday in the year in the past. One year I think I worked all of them except for Christmas. 🙂
My editor has been kind enough to keep me off the rotating Sunday schedules, however — although I’ve told him if I have to work a Sunday I will, though I prefer to be off.
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If employees assume their employer–especially a major retailer like Walmart–will always and ever operate the same way at all times, they’re making a ridiculous assumption. Walmart didn’t promise they’d never open on Thanksgiving. Nothing wrong with an employee wishing they wouldn’t do so, but not wise to assume it would never happen.
Allowing a tool to control us says something about us, not the tool (or the “ideology”).
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It’s also easier for those of us who are single, obviously — and very young employees are often more flexible as well so that the additional holiday pay offsets having to work.
But I’m guessing many companies make it on a volunteer basis as much as possible. There are almost always people who are fine with holidays in order to earn a bit more money.
And it’s nice to know that some of my colleagues with families or, more often, with travel plans to visit parents, in-laws, etc., are able to do that.
I did spend a Christmas in NY a while back, took off 10 days for that one (and, yeah, my editor groused no end about my request for time off in late December that ran right through Christmas). I felt totally guilty, but considering how often I’ve been in town and worked through (at least) the important holiday periods, if not the precise day itself, I shouldn’t have felt so bad.
He always grouses, though. 😉
And I got over it quickly enough. I had a wonderful time.
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I have worked at two different retail stores. One I worked at for 8 months and the other one for 4 years. In both cases, I communicated at the interview that I would prefer not to work Sundays since I wanted to go to church. In both cases, I was told that I had to take my turn working Sundays, but that they would try to put me on a later shift so I could attend church first. I agreed. In actuality, both managers respected my stand enough that I rarely worked a Sunday. The store I worked in for 4 years, I probably only worked 10 Sundays over the 4 years. I don’t think I ever missed Sunday morning church because of work.
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Since we celebrated Thanksgiving tonight and by the time I get here tomorrow you all will be stuffed or in the process of being stuffed, let me say now, “Happy Thanksgiving”. I hope you all enjoy your day with family and friends. Phos and I stuffed ourselves tonight and I will be enjoying leftovers on Friday night. (Phos is going to the “big city” for the weekend.)
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Woo-hoo, Phos.
I’m eating Thanksgiving “dinner” early tomorrow, by noonish I think. 🙂 So no breakfast for me in the morning. And no dinner at night. It’ll be a one-meal kind of day.
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Hmm, interesting post on FB by my pastor a little while ago. Made me kind of think of Random …. :
“For those who feel guilty eating, according to PETA, gentle smart birds for Thanksgiving, I thought what I read from the Acton Inst. from rabbinic tradition was of value. When we eat animals, it reminds us that we, ourselves, are not animals. Many valuable conclusions can be drawn from that simple observation.”
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There was a store called Zayre when Ree was a kid.
That makes me feel old.
I’ve never heard of the other store.
We were talking at the Y this morning about stores. I remember the first self service store I saw in Charleston in 1941. It was called the Automatic.
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Newberry’s. Remember that one? I still remember how the old wood floor creaked in the one in Spencer, Ia., when we’d spend time visiting my grandparents when I was growing up.
They had one of those mechanical horses in the front of the store that I always loved to “ride.” Sometimes I think I can still remember the smell of that old place …
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I worked at Zayre to get through college. It was not a bad place to work temporary. It help pay for books and gas. This what I don’t understand. Back in my day these jobs were for college student, housewives trying to bring in a little extra or people trying to work their way up to management . You didn’t have people expecting to raise a family in the suburbs working as a low skill discount department store cashier for the rest of their lives.
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“Allowing a tool to control us says something about us, not the tool (or the “ideology”).”
Which is why we should reject any attempt to let the free market guide society and not just the market.
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I worked at Sears through college. Christmas was especially “fun” — in fact, I began working for Sears the first Christmas out of high school when I was hired to work as a temp in the gift wrap department.
Really fun — and educational! My family said my gifts were nearly impossible to open that year, they were wrapped so military-tight. 🙂
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And I still remember the kid they hired to push the latest men’s cologne that Christmas. He was awfully cute. 🙂
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Ree – I live in Connecticut (near the Mass. border), & I remember Zayre & Lechmere. Others that have gone out of business, that you may remember, were Caldor, Bradlees, & Ames. (I think Ames was Zayre originally.)
kBells – I’ve thought about that, too. Makes me wonder if people today are expecting too much from a low-paying job, or if things have changed enough that the jobs to support families are scarcer. Maybe a combination of both?
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When I worked fast food (McDonald’s) and retail (Revco, a drugstore), we didn’t get paid extra for working holidays, so not everyone does. Nevertheless, both were closed Thanksgiving and Christmas, and Revco at least had a policy I appreciated: the newest hire worked the holiday. That usually meant a high school kid was the newest, at least once you’d worked through one or two minor holidays. I only worked one, maybe Labor Day.
I always told my bosses I wasn’t available Sunday, period. At McDonald’s they occasionally scheduled me, and I always said no, I can’t work it, and I said that when I got hired, sorry. My sister, who also worked there, occasionally got scheduled on Sunday, and she always said no, she’d rather not, and they always said please, just this once, and she always said OK, just this once. Companies that have a good number of employees usually can manage to deal with it if one or two hold the line on Sunday work (assuming it isn’t a genuine emergency; obviously in the medical field and some others, this isn’t a realistic “line in the sand”), but for me it was always something I insisted on. Whether it cost me from being hired in the first place anywhere, I don’t know, but once I had been hired with the agreement I wasn’t available Sundays, I stuck to it.
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“Which is why we should reject any attempt to let the free market guide society and not just the market.”
So who should guide society? Most of us would say the church.
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We have such a small staff anymore (after rounds of layoffs) that if I *had* to work a Sunday I (c)would — but my request to be off on Sundays has been honored so far by my supervisor, for which I am grateful.
I’ve made it clear I’m very available for Saturdays, etc., however, and holidays when/if needed. Sundays are special — holidays (for me), not so much.
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Which is why we should reject any attempt to let the free market guide society and not just the market.
I don’t consider Walmart opening on Thursday “let[ting] the free market guide society.” That seems to be overstating things a bit much.
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Three Christmas Holidays while I was in college I was a Toy Soldier in the Christmas Parade at Disney Land.
The evening Parade started by the Small World ride. I still hold my nose while I hum the song from that ride…”Nyah, Nyah, Nyah,…”
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Oh, bobbuckles, this is awful.
I’ve had that song stuck in my head all night after a FB exchange with Michelle & another friend who’s a DL regular.
Now I come here only to find this …
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Karen,
I remembered Caldor when you said it, but otherwise I’d forgotten. Ames sounds really familiar. I think they had one in our downtown area in Wakefield. Bradlees sounds vaguely familiar. I left Massachusetts when I was 21 in 1982, so I don’t really remember when these stores went out of business, but I think they were all gone before I left. What about Jordan Marsh? And Filenes? Those were our equivalent of Macy’s or Nordstroms, if I remember correctly.
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What a small world– I remember all those stores . . . 🙂
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Look what I started when I innocently mentioned Zayre.
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