What’s news today?
Told ya, The Campaign continues.
And we can’t campaign without some good old fashioned, union organized, grassroots astroturf outrage! Coming soon to a city near you! And aimed at Republicans, of course.
From Google/AP
“Labor leaders said Tuesday that President Barack Obama remains committed to preserving tax cuts for middle class families and ensuring the wealthy pay more in taxes, outlining plans for a public campaign to pressure Republican lawmakers.”
“According to participants, White House aides said the president intends to hold campaign-style events across the country after Thanksgiving to drum up support for his proposed solution to the fiscal cliff. It would build upon more than 100 rallies organized by labor unions last week urging members of Congress to avoid cuts to entitlement programs.”
Speaking of unions……..
If you’re a Hostess fan, you better stock up quick, while supplies last.
From DallasNews
“Late Friday, the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike against Irving-based Hostess to protest cuts and give-backs in the company’s last, best, final contract offer. The contract, which was rejected by 92 percent of the union members who voted, called, in part, for 8 percent pay cuts, a company hiatus from contributions to a multi-employer pension plan and changes in work rules.
As of Monday, bakers had set up picket lines at about 23 of the 36 bakeries and production plants operated by the bankrupt snack maker. Hostess said the strike “has prevented the facilities from producing and delivering products.”
“Our customers will not be affected because we will continue to serve them from other Hostess Brands bakeries, but sadly this action will result in the permanent closure of three facilities and the loss of 627 jobs,” said Gregory Rayburn, Hostess Brands’ chief executive.
“We deeply regret this decision, but we have repeatedly explained that we will close facilities that are no longer able to produce and deliver products because of a work stoppage — and that we will close the entire company if widespread strikes cripple our business.””
😯
Gov. Perry is just no fun.
From CBSHouston
“Texas Gov. Rick Perry has one message for the tens of thousands of Texans calling for secession from the United States: The state will not secede.
More than 76,000 people have signed a petition on the “We the People” White House website for Texas to withdraw from the Union and start a new government after President Barack Obama was re-elected.”
Yesterday there was some talk on the rights of women in Muslim countries. Sadly, this is another setback for the rights of women in Eygpt.
Women’s Equality Article Removed From Egyptian Constitution
The deficit is up, way up.
From YahooNews/Reuters
“The budget deficit rose in October, the first month of fiscal year 2013, as looming negotiations over expiring tax cuts and imminent spending reductions dominated the post-election political landscape.
The Treasury said on Tuesday the October deficit was $120 billion, larger than economist forecasts for a $114 billion gap and up from $98 billion in October of 2011.
Growth in expenditures outpaced rising receipts, deepening the deficit. Outlays grew to $304 billion from around $262 billion in the same month last year while receipts rose to $184 billion from $163 billion.”
The market is down.
From TheWallStreetJournal
“U.S. stocks fell to a more than three-month low as concerns about the fiscal cliff and Greece’s debt woes outweighed optimism about Home Depot’s better-than-expected earnings report.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average added fell 58.90 points, or 0.5%, to 12756.18. The benchmark reversed intraday gains of as much as 83 points to finish at its lowest level since July 25.”
Welcome to the Revolution Evolution?
From Politico
“Welcome to the Rand Paul evolution”
“He’ll push to loosen marijuana penalties, legalize undocumented immigrants and pursue a less aggressive American foreign policy.”
“In the wake of Barack Obama’s reelection win and ahead of a possible 2016 White House bid of his own, the Kentucky Republican plans to mix his hard-line tea party conservatism with more moderate policies that could woo younger voters and minorities largely absent from the GOP coalition. It’s the latest tactic of the freshman senator to inject the Libertarian-minded views shared by his retiring father into mainstream Republican thinking as the party grapples with its future.”
Well, what do you think?
Wandering Views 
I think KarenO’s husband is affected by the Hostess thing.
😦
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That one is a little odd Chas.
First the company says it won’t effect customers, then it says we’ll close the company if strikes continue. Which is it?
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After a day of being relentlessly negative, I am posting an optimistic article. Let’s hope Mr. Benko is right.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2012/11/12/the-end-of-the-karl-rove-death-grip-signals-a-reagan-renaissance/
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Chas, I believe he left Hostess a while back because of all the uncertainty. Probably a good move.
I didn’t know Ron Paul was so groovy. 😉
I’m still hoping Obama will turn center — even just a little bit — now that he doesn’t have a campaign to worry about anymore. And I suspect that the media may be a little tougher on him now as well.
Just call me the eternal optimist. Now I’ll have to go read RickyWeaver’s link.
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Donna
What do you consider to be the center?
Ricky
I have to confess that the article lost me entirely when it cited to Rand Paul as Reaganesque. Paul’s foreign policy would look nothing like Reagan’s and he’s far more libertarian than conservative. The Brownback comparison also did not strike me as wholly accurate — Reagan was not a cultural warrior like Brownback, though I know folks like to cannonize Reagan as having been a culture warrior.
AJ
I think Hostess is in its second bankruptcy in the last two years or so. Company leadership also changed last year in a row over CEO compensation. Articles on hostess catch my eye from time to time because I do have a thing for their chocolate cupcakes — but they are awful in terms of nutritional value which has been another challenge to the viability of the company — changing snack models.
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CB, the center is of much debate — and often, I’m finding, it simply depends on your perspective. 🙂 So there’s likely no definitive definition. Your center is most likely different from my center which probably is different from RickyWeaver’s center.
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CB, Reagan governed when the Soviet Union was an imminent threat. Who is to say his foreign policy would be that different from Rand Paul if he governed now? He sure didn’t start any expensive, counterproductive wars like Iraq.
I heard Reagan speak to a large group of Christian leaders in Dallas in 1980. Two weeks ago I heard excerpts from that speech played to a large church in Lubbock. The issues were different in 1980. Gun control, busing and crime were big issues. Homosexual rights were a nonissue outside of Greenwich Village. However, make no mistake. Reagan was conservative across the board.
Donna J, You are no doubt correct. Rick Perry is now viewed as a liberal in my camp since he issued a statement against secession yesterday.
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Donna, give up.j
Obama can’t turn center. He doesn’t know what that is.
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Donna
That’s precisely why I asked you the question! 🙂
Ricky,
Um hmm. Reagan spoke in an appealing way to social conservatives. What did he actually do? On foreign policy Reagan was an internationalist. Rand Paul is not.
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So I’m reading the secession story back and forth. A large number of folks across the US have signed a petition to secede from the union. The White House now has to look at it. The “progressives” have shot a rejoinder back saying these folks are “mentally deficient” and think they should have their citizenship revoked. IMO that’s fine as long as those on left who threatened to leave to Canada when Bush won have their citizenship revoked too.
Grow up people.
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MIM nailed it.
Nobody is going to seceed from the union.
Everybody has different reasonsfor it and can’t unite. It would be like Europe of Africa. Just a bunch of nations.
It’s like third party: Some are fiscally conservative, cultural liberal; some are culturally conservative, fiscally liberal.
I could never agree on Ron Paul’s foreign policy. It just wouldn’t work.
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Hubby wants to start a petition to revoked the citizenship of those who signed the petition to revoke the citizenship of those who signed the petition to secede. But he is afraid some one would start a petition to revoke the citizenship of those who signed the petition to to revoked the citizenship of those who signed the petition to revoke the citizenship of those who signed the petition to secede.
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Ricky,
What makes opposition to secession a liberal position?
MiM
You said it – amen!
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CB, Reagan was the ultimate culture warrior. He was on the side of John Wayne, Archie Bunker and the NRA. The Democrats were on the side of the hippes, Timothy Leary and the Black Panthers. Bush was at his country club feeling very nervous about both Reagan and the Democrats. Reagan appointed conservative judges and used his Justice Dept to good effect. When Reagan came in, gun rights were very much at risk, forced busing of children was rampant, and crime was widespread. When Reagan left office, gun rights were never again seriously threatened, forced busing was ending and many of the druggies and other criminals were in jail.
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ATLANTA – The UPS Foundation says it will no longer give grants to the Boy Scouts of America as long as the group excludes homosexuals from being scouts or scout leaders.
The philanthropic arm of the Atlanta-based shipping giant made the change after an online petition protesting the foundation’s annual grants to the Boy Scouts attracted more than 80,000 signatures. The UPS Foundation gave more than $85,000 to the Boy Scouts in 2011, according to its federal tax return.
A UPS spokeswoman says groups applying for the grants will have to adhere to the same standards UPS does. The company says it does not discriminate against anyone based on race, religion, disability or sexual orientation.
http://onenewsnow.com//ap/business/ups-ends-grants-to-boy-scouts-over-discrimination
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Kbells,
🙂
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Ricky
You sound like my significant other with respect to hippies, gun rights and judges.
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Fox News is reporting that Paraeus will testify before Congress on Friday. It’s via Tweet, so no link yet.
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Aww, Hippies,
Don’t get me started……..
🙂
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So a while back I asked a serious question about voter fraud and the proposed ID law. I didn’t get much response to it….
I posted percentages of voters who would be disenfranchised if they could not produce an ID.
Huge percentages of minorities would be excluded from voting.
An aquaintance of mine says that voter ID law is a Republican campaign tactic to keep those on the government dole from voting. Personally, I’m not all that sure that’s totally bad – it might keep welfare from being a self-perpetuating problem. But that’s another question altogether. I don’t have a problem believing that it’s a tactic somewhere in some Republican’s mind though.
Furthermore, this aquaintance asserts that in most, if not all, cases brought to court, it has never been proven. So, in his mind it’s virtually non-existent.
Now that we’re getting statistics of voter turnout that is above 100% of those registered, I’m not so sure. First of all, we never get 100% turnout, and we certainly can’t get more than that.
What do you think? Do we now have proof of voter fraud?
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CB,
I realized lookin at this post upon completing it, that I hadn’t used any right-wing sources. I also looked back at some of the old ones, and I seem to use CBS, ABC, Politico, NBC, (but not MSDNC for obvious reasons) quite often. I’ve used the DailyBeast, HuffPo, AP, Reuters, The Hill, and the like as well. These are hardly right-wing. I know you think I don’t use enough of them, but I do use them.
So here’s my question. What are some CB approved, moderate sites, that you don’t think I use enough? I’m always looking to expand where I find news, so make some recommendations.
Anybody else wanna chime in as well, feel free to.
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MiM
On the tactic question, there are state level republicans who have explicitly stated the purpose to increase r voter results.
On the rest, there are some urban precincts that has zero number of votes for Romney. There are enough of them that I believe it warrants investigation.
Ironically, the UN officials folks were worked up about the lack of need for voter ID in US elections. I do think we need to have independent voting commissions.
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Found it!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/14/petraeus-agrees-to-testify-on-libya-before-congressional-committees/
“Former CIA Director David Petraeus has agreed to testify about the Libya terror attack before the House and Senate intelligence committees, Fox News has learned.
Petraeus had originally been scheduled to testify this Thursday on the burgeoning controversy over the deadly Sept. 11 attack. That appearance was scuttled, though, after the director abruptly resigned over an extramarital affair.”
“Fox News has learned he is expected to speak off-site to the Senate Intelligence Committee on Friday about his Libya report.
The House side is still being worked out.”
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In commenting on Governor Perry’s statement, Many of the Texans are beginning to wonder if Perry is just another RINO. I suspect that we will see a public referendum on the ballot in Texas soon. Ricky, can you keep us apprised of this?
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MiM, How does one get on the government dole without an ID?
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Hamas military leader killed in Israeli strike.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9677782/
Hamas-military-chief-killed-in-Gaza-air-strike.html
“The military wing of Hamas said in a statement that the assassination “has opened the gates of hell”.
Israel’s military said the strike was the “start of targetting Gaza militants”, according to AFP.
Witnesses say Jabari was travelling in his vehicle in Gaza City when his car exploded.
Jabari is the most senior Hamas official to be killed since an Israeli invasion of Gaza four years ago. He has long topped Israel’s
most-wanted list, the Associated Press reported.”
More here
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-military-chief-ahmed-jabari-killed-by-israeli-strike-1.477819
“Ahmed Jabari was behind the 2006 abduction of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit; IDF launches multiple strikes on Gaza; Hamas: Israeli
aggression will lead to war; Israel Police raises alert levels across the country.”
No you morons, YOUR aggression and 200 plus rockets fired at Israel in the last couple of days led to it.
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Kbells,
I’ll bite. How?
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Ricky, I hoped you would work your way out of that downside mood. I had a similar one for a few days right after the election.
Thanks for the Benko article. I agree that Pence, Brownback, and Rubio are worthy of the Reagan mantle. I’d add Ryan. Not Paul, however, as he is too isolationist and rather lacks suavity. It could well be that over time the Romney defeat will serve to wake up the party to return to its Reaganite core. While I take Benko’s point, he was unduly harsh on the Bushes and Rove.
Also, there was an upside to the recent election, according to Kohut of Pew who wrote as follows today in the WSJ:
Despite their weak candidate, Republicans increased their share of the presidential vote among many major demographic groups. Compared with 2008, they made significant gains among men (four percentage points), whites (four points), younger voters (six points), white Catholics (seven points) and Jews (nine points). Mr. Romney also carried the independent vote 50% to 45%. Four years ago, independents voted for Mr. Obama 52% to 44%.
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It’s curious to me how I’ve got every unfolding fact possible at my fingertips about the Petraeus resignation but STILL don’t have answers about Benghazi.
Amazing how efficient reporters can be when they’re engaged. 😦
I’ve also learned that you can evade some detection by sharing an email account and using draft emails instead of sending them. Fascinating. If only I were duplicitous . . .
The paper has been full of columnists reminding us the French don’t have problems separating sex escapades from a servant’s ability to do their job.
I keep coming back to “he who is faithful in little is also faithful in much,” and if you can’t keep your promises to someone you claim to love (your spouse), why would you keep your promises to something more nebulous like your country?
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How about we only let you vote if you paid income tax in the prior year? What’s going to happen to us when the number of those who don’t pay exceed the number of us who do?
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In his book, The Enemy at Home, Dinesh D’Souza ends the chapter on “Innocence Lost” by saying:
“Now this gross underside of American culture is being exported to the world. Therefore it is no longer ‘our’ problem, but a global problem. Many liberals seem blind to the moral concerns of traditional people, such as their concern for childhood innocence and modesty; because they do not share the traditional view of right and wrong. What traditional cultures and specifically Muslim cultures consider deviant and disgusting, many liberals consider progressive and liberating. Thus from the point of view of these cultures, liberals promote an ‘upside down’ morality in which traditional forms of depravity become signposts of freedom. Traditional Muslims fear that freedom in the West means moral corruption, and liberals are the ones who are proving them right.”
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I agree, this is a problem. Years ago I read a fascinating book by Pico Iyer called “Video Nights in Kathmandu,” in which he told stories of misinterpreted cultural crossings.
Among the stories was Iranian fighter pilots trained in Texas (obviously, this was before 1978) who had to be counseled not to proposition every American woman they met. Truly perplexed, they explained that based on the movies they saw, they thought all American women were happy to jump into bed with any stranger.
That’s not true in my personal neighborhood, maybe it is in yours, but given what we export through film, you can understand why they might not understand.
Iyer tells the story of watching Rambo in Hanoi and the surreal moment when Rambo mowed down a group of Vietnamese and the crowed screamed with excitement.
He was the only non-Vietnamese in the audience.
Art has consequences. Artists like to push boundaries. That’s part of why they have roles in society–to give us points of view we may not have. It can be good and it can be bad, but there are consequences.
When your nation’s culture consistently portrays religious people, businessmen and military figures as unethical, crass and murderous, can you be surprised when people assume such behavior is the norm? When your television programs consistently push the boundaries of sexual behavior, use foul language and denigrate the role of fathers, can you be surprised when such behavior is mirrored in the culture?
Had do you change a culture to admire what is good, right, wholesome and pure?
By example?
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Another General bites the dust.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/general-demoted-extravagant-trips-article-1.1201284
“Another day brought even more general disarray for the country to stomach.
Gen. William “Kip” Ward, the one-time head of the U.S. Africa Command, was demoted Tuesday and ordered to repay $82,000 he blew on extravagant trips and other unauthorized expenses.
The move by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta means Ward will lose one star and retire as a three-star lieutenant general, officials said.
The penalty will dock the 63-year-old Ward about $30,000 a year in pension pay — although he’ll still pull down about $208,000 annually.”
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We have several friends who are admirals, I don’t know any generals. Command flows down from above. If you have admirals and generals who don’t obey the same rules everyone else obeys, the structure, ability and morale of your military force declines.
We saw that in Abu Gharib (sp?).
They go to “flag school” and learn how to behave–not just the knives and forks but diplomatically and with money. They are trained over the years in the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice). There are no excuses for the brutish behavior we’ve seen of late in the media. They have been trained in sexual harrassment issues and how to avoid it for twenty years. While they may have an expense account, they need to explain where they spend it.
On a personal level, it’s difficult to reach the top of the heap and then watch your world erode around you. Who can you trust and how do you handle the politics?
This is where a strong marriage and a good spouse who doesn’t take any guff can be very helpful. (This also is not a comment on Mrs. Petraeus.)
One of our old friends completely cracked up when he hit higher rank. He, too, began sleeping around in a terrible, destructive way for his family (one of the kids attempted suicide because of the father’s behavior). His wife divorced him and he began drinking–all the while being in charge of pretty important things.
The two friends who have done very well are devout Christians–one with nine homeschooled children–who both went to the Naval Academy and have a strong sense of core values and the need to apply them first to themselves.
You American taxpayers should be thankful there are many who are “servant leaders.”
Say what you like about Petraeus–he did the right thing when he resigned. Adultery still is a violation of the UCMJ. Why the CIA didn’t vet that out is beyond me. Apparently some of the officers who worked with him suspected. 😦
I’ll bet people at the Farm knew as well. 😦
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Does anyone see the irony of labeling Gov Perry as a republican in name only for opposing secession? Earth to party of Lincoln.
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Aj
I’d point you to the American Conservative. Numerous viewpoints coming from a Burkean perspective. I think of them as center right. Many thoughtful pieces.
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Aj
And now that I’m thinking about it … the week, the economist, al jazeera english
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Things are escalating in the MidEast.
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291779
“Jabari was killed when an IAF missile struck the car he was traveling in, in the central Strip. One other person was killed in the attack.
Following the assassination, the IAF struck over 20 underground rocket launchers belonging to Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The airstrikes targeted long-range rockets in the possession of terror organizations, such as the Fajr-5 and other rockets that are capable of striking Tel Aviv from Gaza. Palestinian sources said that six Gazans were killed in the IDF strikes.”
They say they will initiate a ground offensive if necessary.
http://freebeacon.com/its-war/
“Update (11:28 AM): Israeli media are reporting that the IDF is sending emergency call-up notices to reservists. IDF General Yoav Mordechaitold Channel 2 news ground troops may be sent into Gaza: ”There are preparations, and if we are required to, the option of a entry by ground is available.”
Israeli artillery has joined the air force in hitting targets in Gaza and eyewitnesses report that multiple Israeli naval vessels have appeared along the coast of Gaza.”
Egypt is rattling it’s sabers too. But I suspect it’s little more than talk. They’re not really in a position to do much with the military they have. Let’s hope it’s just tough talk, and that they really aren’t stupid enough to get involved.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Nov-14/195047-egypt-will-no-longer-tolerate-attacks-on-palestinians-fjp.ashx#axzz2CDZSaTlQ
“Egypt’s Islamist Freedom and Justice Party, formerly headed by President Mohamed Morsi, said on Wednesday Egypt would no longer stand by as Israel attacked Palestinians after air strikes killed a Hamas leader.
The FJP, the political arm of the powerful Muslim Brotherhood movement, said Israeli air strikes that killed top militant Ahmed al-Jaabari in Gaza earlier on Wednesday required “swift Arab and international action to stop the massacres.””
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Warning: Now that Chas is reading The Enemy at Home by D’Souza, I expect more posts from him like today’s. That book really transformed my thinking by showing me how traditional societies around the world view the US. As Michelle stated, our popular culture (which is widely exported) makes us look worse than we are.
Sails, I agree with you about the best successors to Reagan. I really like Ryan and Rubio, and would throw in Jindal who has done a good job in Louisiana.
Is secession conservative or who were the conservatives in 1861? Conservatives in England supported the South. The left in England (including Karl Marx) supported Lincoln.
KBells, Your husband was wise. Radicals are devious.
I have enjoyed joking about and threatening secession ever since Big Bush raised taxes and nominated David Souter. I actually think this will be an issue in next year’s Texas gubernatorial primary. If the folks in Washington can craft a reasonable deal to reform the tax code and reduce the deficit, secession talk will subside. If not, the US will start to look like a partnership where the principals simply hate each other and refuse to work together. Those types of arrangements don’t last.
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Ricky, secession is an old story in America. When Jefferson succeded in ending trade to Europe, the New England states, much dependent on foreign trade, seriously threatened secession, though nothing came of it. The South went to war on the issue that was settled in favor of the Union with some 500,000 lives lost.
In Massachusets the island of Nantucket has routinely tried to secede for hundreds of years.
You Texans may have fun jawboning about it, though it ain’t gonna happen.
Along with death and taxes, the American Union is rather certain.
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“The distinguished Muslim scholar Seyyed Hossein Nast writes, ‘The most basic right of a child is to have two parents, and this right is taken away from nearly half of the children in Western Society.'”
D’Souza, op. cit. p. 153.
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Sails, You might want to rethink that statement about secession after you read this article. http://www.kens5.com/news/Secessionist-says-Texas-independence-inevitable-179311621.html
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More news on the search of Broadwell’s home.
http://news.yahoo.com/broadwell-classified-document-probe-114054139.html
“Paula Broadwell, the author who allegedly had an affair with former CIA Director David Petraeus, is suspected of storing significant amounts of military documents, including classified material, at her home, potentially in violation of federal law.
A source familiar with case told ABC News that Broadwell admitted to the FBI she took the documents from secure government buildings. The government demanded that they all be given back, and when federal agents descended on her North Carolina home on Monday night it was a pre-arranged meeting.
Prosecutors are now determining whether to charge Broadwell with a crime, and this morning the FBI and military are pouring over the material. The 40-year-old author, who wrote the biography on Gen. Petraeus “All In,” is cooperating and the case, which is complicated by the fact that as an intelligence officer in the U.S. Military Reserve she had security clearance to review the documents. ”
That last line is crap. Security clearance or not, you don’t take classified docs home, and you don’t leave them unsecured ever. And if they’re at your house, they’re unsecured. Anyone who has, or ever had, a top secret clearance knows this, including me.
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AJ is correct. I had a security clearance and wouldn’t have dared remove classified material. I wouldn’t leave it out overnight in the secure area. It was signed out to me and I knew where it was at all times.
I never talkie about what I was doing. My wife didn’t know what my job was until last September when it was declassified.
We didn’t discuss classified subjects with other people with the same clearance outside the secure area, except in cryptic terms.
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You are right AJ. I had a secret clearance in the Navy. Taking classified material off the ship or base was a court martial offense.
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Chas @10:01am
Re UPS decision not to give grants to the Boy Scouts over the homosexual issue—the joke may be on them. Prez Obama is saying he wants not only loopholes but corporate deductions sewn up as part of reinstating the Bush tax cuts for the middle class. UPS would not be handing out largess to anyone if it weren’t tax deductible. There’s always an up-side to these things, and if you look hard enough, you’ll find it. ;–)
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drivesguy, thanks for the article on the Texas Nationalist Movement that is organizing a peaceful secession movement . The trouble with this is that The Constitution has no provision that allows for secession, as the South found out. This outfit will undoubtedly prove to be a joke. I admire the Texas bravado, however futile. Texans won a hard fight to join the Union and will lose this mere rhetorical fight.
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Sails, I would refer you to the preamble of the Declaration of Independence.
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
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Ricky,
Republican President Lincoln put an end to the British debate with the Emancipation Proclamation. Brit conservatives had to let go of the idea of a divided America once Lincoln brought the slavery issue to the table.
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drivesguy, the Declaration advocates armed rebellion. If Texas wants to organize an armed rebellion against the U.S., fine, though, as with the Civil War, it would be a hard and losing fight, though likely a shorter one given the disparity of the forces.
Of course, this Texas National Movement is laughable, all hat, no cattle.
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I thought Texas was the only state that did indeed have a clause allowing secession.
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You are correct mumsee. When Texas entered the union, they were guaranteed the right to secede and form 5 separate states should they so desire.
Sails. The article from San Antonio says otherwise about the movement being laughable. When the recession hits and inflation is out of control due to Obama’s abuse of power, I do foresee a public referendum being brought forth.
Just so you know Sails, all the Laws in Texas are passed by public referendum. Should the issue be approved by public referendum, then Texas will indeed secede.
As to whether or not it results in armed conflict, It would not be the Texans that would initiate the conflict. It would be the Communist in Chief now occupying the oval office.
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Mumsee, Texas joined the union by a treaty between two sovereign nations. Under the treaty, Texas has the right to split into 5 states at any time. If Texas wanted out, the best option would be to announce that it was going to split into 5 states with the 4 new states all being lightly populated areas of conservative West Texas. The result would be 8 new Republican Senators. I think the Democrats would expel Texas before they allowed that to happen.
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My understanding is that in 1868, in Texas v. White, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Texas continued to be a State, and a State of the Union, notwithstanding its adoption in 1861 of the Ordinance of Secession. The Constitution simply has no clause that allows secession. f there were any question on this, the Civil War settled it.
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According to the Wiki article on Texas, the 1845 joint resolution Congress allowed Texas to split into five states within the context of the federal Union. The Treaty said nothing about Texas becoming independent of the Union.
The exact Wiki article words are:
The resolution declared that Texas would be admitted as a state as long as it approved annexation by January 1, 1846, that it could split itself up into four additional states, and that possession of the Republic’s public land would shift to the state of Texas upon its admission.[8] On February 26, 1845, six days before Polk took office, Congress passed the joint resolution.
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And the 1879 Constitution of Texas says that Texas is a sovereign independent state subject only to the Constitution of the United States. Section 1 of the Texas Constitution approved by the Supreme Court after radical reconstruction.
Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and
independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United
States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the
perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of
local self-government, unimpaired to all the States.
When the US constitution is violated by the current administration, Texas Law is final.
Oklahoma is also petitioning to secede peaceably.
we petition the obama administration to:
Peacefully grant the State of Oklahoma to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
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Drivesguy, the flaw in your argument is contained within the Section One of the Texas State Constitutin, namely:
Texas is a free and independent state, subject only to the Constitution of the United States…. The rest of that section attempting to qualify the sovereignty of the Constitution is inconsequential verbiage. Texas has no more right in 2012 to secede than it had in 1861.
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Our extreme lack of unity does give weight to the idea of closing foreign bases and bringing all troops home immediately. Obama could use this flurry of secession petitions as an excuse/reason to cut the military budget in upcoming budget negotiations.
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Sails, the flaw in your argument is that you are only seeing the issue as one of legality only. The rights we enjoy are granted to us by God, not by men. When a Government, like our present Government ceases to obey God and respect the rights He has granted to men, then the people have the right to form a new Government. This is the whole tenant and foundation of secession. Why do you think the Declaration of Independence was written? It was because George III simply chose to violate the rights of the people in America. Sound familiar? It should, this is exactly what Obama is doing. By regulating businesses out of doing business, he is taking away people’s right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By regulating Catholic charities and causing them to violate their conscience, Obama is violating right of people to worship God as their conscience dictates.
As I said before, it will not be the people of Texas who fire the 1st shot. Give the wickedness of heart and soul of Obama, it will be he who fires the 1st shot.
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Drivesguy, any president and Member of Congress swears on a Bible to uphold the Constitution. That’s why Lincoln and Congress fought the Civil War to preserve the Union. Again, the Declaration advocates armed rebellion. If Texans want to foolishly rebel in the name of God, fine, though be prepared for a hard fight.
The Bible in Romans Thirteen clams that the sword of state and the rule of law is ordained of God. The Declaration advocates rebellion only in extremis. Obama, regardless of many follies, hardly reaches the sort of extreme that justifies armed rebellion.
Of course, this whole discussion is absurd, as no serious leader in Texas is advocating secession, knowing the disaster that the Civil War was for Texas and the South. Urbane, knowledgeable Texas leaders are not interested in folly.
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Texas could alway asked to be return to Mexico
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Drivesguy, I apologize for my comments earlier this week when I accused you of being raised by a tame form of Texans after you were only mildly anti-Okie. You are obviously a regular Texan who would fit in well in any part of the state.
Sails, I am not sure if Drivesguy and I are knowledgeable, but we are certainly not urbane.
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